Perpetual Middle East Geopolitical Quagmire Megathread

[hpslugga 4096]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

@hpslugga

Never thought I'd see a deal even worse than the one they offered at Camp David in 2000...

 

 

 

but then again, never underestimate those shitbirds.

[Bama Chick 28596]

Republicans are trying to gerrymander Israel too.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

4 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Republicans are trying to gerrymander Israel too.

That's real peace there. All of Gaza is on the sea, but gets no port. Borders with Egypt and Jordan are fully controlled by Israel. And the remaining West Bank is a complete clusterfuck with random "borders" throughout. You'd have to go through like 8 checkpoints to go from the north of the west bank to the south. Which is only about 60 miles. 

I'm sure all the god-fearing American people would be just fine with that level of sovereignty occurring somewhere like Alabama. Those Alabamans would peacefully accept a deal where Mobile is not allowed a port and also has to go through two checkpoints to send goods to Birmingham while also having Birmingham subdivided into a shitload of security zones. Yep, no Alabaman would ever pick up a gun or a rocket again if they got that deal. 

[hpslugga 4096]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

That's real peace there. All of Gaza is on the sea, but gets no port. Borders with Egypt and Jordan are fully controlled by Israel. And the remaining West Bank is a complete clusterfuck with random "borders" throughout. You'd have to go through like 8 checkpoints to go from the north of the west bank to the south. Which is only about 60 miles. 

I'm sure all the god-fearing American people would be just fine with that level of sovereignty occurring somewhere like Alabama. Those Alabamans would peacefully accept a deal where Mobile is not allowed a port and also has to go through two checkpoints to send goods to Birmingham while also having Birmingham subdivided into a shitload of security zones. Yep, no Alabaman would ever pick up a gun or a rocket again if they got that deal. 

Oh great you just inspired another insipid round of “Hamas Charter, PLO Covenant, Protocols of the Elders of Zion, From Time Immemorial, The Case for Israel, blah blah blah.” 

[hpslugga 4096]

8 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Republicans are trying to gerrymander Israel too.

Actually I think little Jared submitted that to his teacher, who then remarked “no, Jared. You did not use the right colors inside the right lines!”

[Biff Tannen 46061]

I'm sure this will go swimmingly.  Ben Rhodes, one of Obama's former foreign policy guys, called the dotard's middle east peace plan more like "terms of surrender" for Palestine.

[HenryJames 67116]

Is that a lot?

[elfenix 34658]

read the covers of 25 books on the israel palestine conflict

[Biff Tannen 46061]

3 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Is that a lot?

[hpslugga 4096]

2 hours ago, elfenix said:

read the covers of 25 books on the israel palestine conflict

Probably read From Time Immemorial 25 times and considers each reading a separate book.

[woohorn 1131]

Kushner calls those areas "contiguous".

[hpslugga 4096]

Just now, woohorn said:

Kushner calls those areas "contiguous".

What did you expect? This kid can’t even locate planet Earth on a map

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

9 minutes ago, hpslugga said:

What did you expect? This kid can’t even locate planet Earth on a map

Or a globe. 

[elfenix 34658]

1 hour ago, woohorn said:

Kushner calls those areas "contiguous".

which country is contiguous?  i didn't see contiguous in the briefing!  what's the leader's name?

[hpslugga 4096]

54 minutes ago, elfenix said:

which country is contiguous?  i didn't see contiguous in the briefing!  what's the leader's name?

I love the additions on the western border as if it’s actually a replacement in value. “Oh well they effectively stole 42% of the West Bank, but we’ll give them these spaces that even Israelis couldn’t be bothered to give 2 shits about and that’ll make up for it!!”

The appropriate analogy to that is if Arkansas stole the entire northeastern quadrant of Texas and announced “well we’re not giving back Dallas County, TX, but we will give you Dallas County, Arkansas to make up for the difference. I mean after all, it’s roughly the same geographic size!!!”

Edited January 29, 2020 by hpslugga

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20834]

14 hours ago, elfenix said:

read the covers of 25 books on the israel palestine conflict

 

was at a bookstore where he saw a bunch of books in the Mideast section 


Take it from somebody who has spent quite a lot of time in Palestinian refugee camps: saying that the Palestinians are dumbasses who have never done anything right in their pathetic little lives is NOT the way forward to peace.

Kushner is a retarded little boy who hasn't the foggiest notion of the reality of Mideast conflict. 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Kushner is a retarded little boy who hasn't the foggiest notion of the reality of Mideast conflict. 

What's really disgusting, more than the fact that he doesn't have the relevant skills, experience, or education that would make him qualified to do the job, is his conceit in thinking that he's actually qualified to do the job. 

[hpslugga 4096]

6 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

What's really disgusting, more than the fact that he doesn't have the relevant skills, experience, or education that would make him qualified to do the job, is his conceit in thinking that he's actually qualified to do the job. 

Even worse? You could substitute any name of any administration official for little Jared and it’s just as accurate 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

"I see the world being slowly transformed into a wilderness; I hear the approaching thunder that, one day, will destroy us too. I feel the suffering of millions. And yet, when I look up at the sky, I somehow feel that everything will change for the better, that this cruelty too shall end, that peace and tranquility will return once more." ---Anne Frank

 

[InkaUtexas 26800]

Add this to the mix. A lot of the refugees are stuck between the fighting. 

ANKARA/AMMAN (Reuters) - Turkish forces struck dozens of Syrian government targets in northwestern Syria on Monday after five Turkish soldiers were killed in an attack on a military base in Idlib province, the Turkish defense ministry said.

Hitting back after Monday’s attack, in which five Turkish solders were also wounded, Turkish forces fired on 115 Syrian government targets and destroyed 101 of them, including three tanks, two mortar positions and one helicopter, the defense ministry said in a later statement.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey/five-turkish-soldiers-killed-in-attack-in-northwest-syria-idUSKBN2041FJ

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20834]

Turkish army suffers mass casualties in a Russian airstrike.  What happens if Turkey invokes Article 5?  What will the U.S. do?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/world/middleeast/russia-turkey-syria-war-strikes.html

[SmokeyTheBear 5569]

7 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Turkish army suffers mass casualties in a Russian airstrike.  What happens if Turkey invokes Article 5?  What will the U.S. do?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/world/middleeast/russia-turkey-syria-war-strikes.html

Join our allies of course. I mean Russia for clarification. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Do any of you actually think any plan ever put forward will satisfy Hezzbolah, PLO, Palestinians, Arabs, liberals period ??  No they won't. The stated goal of most of those groups is the removal of Israel from the map, and globe as it's pushed into the Med.

So all this is just talk, and criticism for a stupid plan among all the wasted plans, lives and time since the formation of Israel.  Mr. Carters one shining moment was the brokering of a peace plan of Israel, and Egypt.  Heady days to be sure.

[Shady Ray 1633]

8 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

Turkish army suffers mass casualties in a Russian airstrike.  What happens if Turkey invokes Article 5?  What will the U.S. do?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/world/middleeast/russia-turkey-syria-war-strikes.html

Turkey is an aggressor in a non-covered foreign land.

Article 5 does not apply. Nor does 6.

Turkey can get fucked.

Legally speaking, that is.

 

 

Quote

 

Article 5

The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area.

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security .

Article 6 ¹

For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:

• on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France ², on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
• on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.

 

•  

[hpslugga 4096]

33 minutes ago, Shady Ray said:

Turkey is an aggressor in a non-covered foreign land.

Article 5 does not apply. Nor does 6.

Turkey can get fucked.

Legally speaking, that is.

 

 

•  

That’s an excellent interpretation of international law, sir.

[Shady Ray 1633]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Do any of you actually think any plan ever put forward will satisfy Hezzbolah, PLO, Palestinians, Arabs, liberals period ??  No they won't. The stated goal of most of those groups is the removal of Israel from the map, and globe as it's pushed into the Med.

So all this is just talk, and criticism for a stupid plan among all the wasted plans, lives and time since the formation of Israel.  Mr. Carters one shining moment was the brokering of a peace plan of Israel, and Egypt.  Heady days to be sure.

Yeah, they should just be content to allow justice to manifest itself through the process. No reason to distrust the process at all.

Edited February 28, 2020 by Shady Ray

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Shady Ray said:

Yeah, they should just be content to allow justice to work manifest through the process. No reason to distrust the process at all.

When your stated goal is the destruction of a country you're not going to get a lot of support. Israel isn't blameless for damn sure.

[Shady Ray 1633]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

When your stated goal is the destruction of a country you're not going to get a lot of support. Israel isn't blameless for damn sure.

Oh, stated goal or are you talking about desired goal realized? Is that what you mean when 3/4 of internationally recognized Palestine has been annexed by Israel?

[bad_teammate 13479]

7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

When your stated goal is the destruction of a country you're not going to get a lot of support.

If all it's about is who can get the biggest bullies on their side, then Israel isn't going to win that contest forever.

[hpslugga 4096]

8 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

When your stated goal is the destruction of a country you're not going to get a lot of support. Israel isn't blameless for damn sure.

This line of thinking is way too symbol-minded to carry any weight. Besides:

1. Hamas has since revised its stated goals so as to not include the lines regarding smashing the Zionist entity and all that crap that was written by a handful of people smack in the middle of the first Intifada*

2. The governing party of Israel is categorically opposed to the creation of a Palestinian state for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with the Hamas charter*

3. Far apart from its rhetoric, Israel also acts to implement its desire to create a greater Israel*

4. Palestine has overwhelming support in the international community*

*=This statement can be corroborated by irrefutable documented evidence

[Shady Ray 1633]

This line of thinking is way too symbol-minded to carry any weight. Besides:    

3. Far apart from its rhetoric, Israel also acts to implement its desire to create a greater Israel*  

 

 

*=This statement can be corroborated by irrefutable documented evidence 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Absolutely correct. The entire concept of the “Greater Israel” plan is well-documented, yet conveniently ignored across the board by corporate-controlled media on both sides of the political aisle.      

 

 

The moment that concept is understood, all of our “frolics and detours” though the Middle East over the past decades all of a sudden make a lot more sense, as it absolutely corresponds to where we are hell bent on waging regime change wars.

 

 

And no, this is not a conspiratorial screed...it’s a simple observation that pro-Israeli expansionist entities have much more clout over the whores who supposedly “represent us” in Washington have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bad_teammate 13479]

I increasingly do not believe a two-state solution is tenable. The only route forward is a single-state solution with full rights for everyone within that state.

We've tried paying our debts with Arab blood for a couple of generations now and it's not working.

[elfenix 34658]

And on this day a peace deal is signed with the Taliban, an extra special fuck you goes out to Donald Rumsfeld for equating the Taliban with al Qaeda and making this take 16 or 17 years longer than it might otherwise.

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

Imagine the exploding heads on Fox News if Obama had made a deal with the Taliban to hand Afghanistan back to the terrorists. Because that's exactly what they would've called it. 

[Chad Fuck 18090]

Imagine the exploding heads on Fox News if Obama had made a deal with the Taliban to hand Afghanistan back to the terrorists. Because that's exactly what they would've called it. 

I’m not sure they were wrong.

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

39 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I’m not sure they were wrong.

It's always been a foregone conclusion that, when we leave, the Taliban will take over again and things will go back to the way they were before 9/11. They're not going to change and they've been content to wait us out whether our occupation took 20 years or 100. 

Everything we've done in Afghanistan since Dubya let Bin Laden and Al Qaeda waltz away from Tora Bora has been a waste of time. That was the critical failure and it came straight from the top. 

The Republicans took us in, they would've screamed bloody murder if Obama took us out, now they might take us out with basically zero gains from the whole endeavor. And when things go back to the way they were, they're going to blame the Democrats. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by WhatTheBuck

[hpslugga 4096]

3 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

I increasingly do not believe a two-state solution is tenable. The only route forward is a single-state solution with full rights for everyone within that state.

Those aren’t the only two options that Israel considers. There’s a third option, and that’s “maintain a military occupation and illegal settlements by force until the Palestinians ultimately decide to pack their shit and leave,” which is exactly the course they’re pursuing at the present. Yes, they want the territories entirely to themselves, but let’s not act like they’re in a hurry to solidify it. Yes Bibi is formally proposing annexations, but that’s largely a smoke screen to distract from his indictment.

[4th&Five 41904]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

Three killed, at least twelve injured in rocket attack on U.S. base in Iraq. Two Americans among the dead. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51842744

Three people have been killed after a base hosting US and UK troops in Iraq was hit by a rocket attack.

At least 12 people were injured in the attack on the Taji military camp, north of Baghdad.

US military sources said an American soldier, an American contractor and a British soldier were killed. No names have yet been released.

Tension has been high since the US killed senior Iranian commander Qasem Soleimani in a drone strike in January.

A retaliatory Iranian strike on al-Asad - another base hosting US troops - on 8 January left more than 100 soldiers suffering from traumatic brain injuries (TBI).

However, both Iran and the US appeared then to want to draw a line under the matter and there have been no major flare-ups since.

A statement from the US-led coalition in Iraq and Syria confirmed that 18 rockets had struck the base and three coalition personnel had been killed.

In an earlier tweet, a spokesman for the coalition said the attack happened at 19:35 local time (16:35 GMT) on Wednesday. He added that an investigation had been launched.

[Viking 301]

Frontline released "Once Upon a Time in Iraq" last week which tells the story of the war by Iraqis that lived it.

 https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/once-upon-a-time-in-iraq

Fuck Bush.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

This seems like a bad idea in a year of bad ideas:

(He is currently the special rep for Venezuela

Edited August 6, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
Edit

[zork 629]

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/opinion/trump-israel-bahrain-uae.html

 

 

[Parliament 14559]

I'm not gotta rub it in like zork up there, but I hope we can all be cautiously optimistic about the detente that has developed between Israel and a few Muslim nations this summer. 

[Biff Tannen 46061]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

I'm not gotta rub it in like zork up there, but I hope we can all be cautiously optimistic about the detente that has developed between Israel and a few Muslim nations this summer. 

Only if we get to be excited about the Lichtenstein-Andorra treaty too. 

[4th&Five 41904]

 

[WhatTheBuck 28904]

But Trump said ISIS was 100% defeated. 

[4th&Five 41904]

It was but now this is Joe Biden’s ISIS. 

[GRHorn 105]

 

[Parliament 14559]

https://www.reuters.com/article/israel-gulf-usa-palestinians-int-idUSKCN26D1IV

[workswithseed 2201]

You'd think there would be more hubub on this issue, and the Korea issue.