Opening Minds on Campus

[TahoeHorn 107]

https://www.city-journal.org/html/opening-minds-campus-15784.html

How do you feel about "opening minds"?  How do you feel about safe spaces?

 

I'm a huge supporter of being exposed to ideas you don't believe in.  I think you should choose what those are, not have them foisted upon you by others.  But you should be aggressive in seeking out sophisticated thought on topics of interest, or in the national news.

 

I think the idea that shouting down people with views you don't share or attacking them personally is horrendous.  I do not feel threatened by opposing views and don't understand why others do.

 

One of the main reasons I come to these boards is to try to get a better feel for people who can't stand to hear opposing views.  I am particularly interested in people with Left wing ideas who are intolerant.  Living in the Bible Belt I get exposure to the other kind in my daily life.

 

 

[Royalfan5 2348]

Why shouldn't people be able to shout down views they find abhorrent? I think a bigger problem with society is people expecting headpats for their dumbass views, than a preponderance of safe spaces.

[scottsins 1953]

13 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

https://www.city-journal.org/html/opening-minds-campus-15784.html

How do you feel about "opening minds"?  How do you feel about safe spaces?

 

I'm a huge supporter of being exposed to ideas you don't believe in.  I think you should choose what those are, not have them foisted upon you by others.  But you should be aggressive in seeking out sophisticated thought on topics of interest, or in the national news.

 

I think the idea that shouting down people with views you don't share or attacking them personally is horrendous.  I do not feel threatened by opposing views and don't understand why others do.

 

One of the main reasons I come to these boards is to try to get a better feel for people who can't stand to hear opposing views.  I am particularly interested in people with Left wing ideas who are intolerant.  Living in the Bible Belt I get exposure to the other kind in my daily life.

 

 

It seems to me like eliminating the “shouting down” is really trying to provide the dreaded “safe space” for that snowflake speaker.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

The more engagement and exposure to differing views and opinions the better in my opinion.

However, there are a few things that should not be tolerated in civil society; like racism, sexism, xenophobia, and ageism.

[bad_teammate 13132]

15 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

I think the idea that shouting down people with views you don't share or attacking them personally is horrendous.  I do not feel threatened by opposing views and don't understand why others do.

A conservative white man in the Deep South who actively works to promote white supremacy isn't scared of opposing views, so why would anyone be? lol

[DixonHur 11219]

There is nothing inherently wrong with being intolerant.  You can like or dislike whomever you like, for whatever reason you like.  The problem arises when people pass laws banning the things they don't like.

 

[TahoeHorn 107]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

A conservative white man in the Deep South who actively works to promote white supremacy isn't scared of opposing views, so why would anyone be? lol

I've never promoted white supremacy.

[TahoeHorn 107]

6 minutes ago, scottsins said:

It seems to me like eliminating the “shouting down” is really trying to provide the dreaded “safe space” for that snowflake speaker.

There is a difference between providing the speaker a forum, and allowing him to speak in any forum.  I support the former but not the latter.

To paraphrase Ron White I don't believe anyone should be permitted to rape my ear.

The speaker gets a chance to speak in a forum where a potential listener can avoid listening.  If you venture into the forum you have to compete with ideas.

[bad_teammate 13132]

Just now, TahoeHorn said:

I've never promoted white supremacy.

Yeah, mmhmm. You just bring the fucking donuts.

You have situated your entire life to be a fucking safe space. You live in a tiny town that is almost pure white (94%) and with low poverty (4%) and you're the pathetic lackey of the local political party that completely dominates the ideological landscape of your chosen safe space area. Your grand outreach to other ideologies is to go on the Internet and talk to other college-educated white people.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

12 minutes ago, scottsins said:

It seems to me like eliminating the “shouting down” is really trying to provide the dreaded “safe space” for that snowflake speaker.

Yep, the OP is begging for a safe space.

[TahoeHorn 107]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Yeah, mmhmm. You just bring the fucking donuts.

You have situated your entire life to be a fucking safe space. You live in a tiny town that is almost pure white (94%) and with low poverty (4%) and you're the pathetic lackey of the local political party that completely dominates the ideological landscape of your chosen safe space area. Your grand outreach to other ideologies is to go on the Internet and talk to other college-educated white people.

You have no understanding of my civic involvement.

[TahoeHorn 107]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yep, the OP is begging for a safe space.

Nope.  The opposite.  I'm advocating an aggressive exchange of ideas.  Attacking me isn't an idea.

 

Did you read the article?  Do you have a different view to present?

Edited March 26, 2018 by TahoeHorn

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

17 minutes ago, Royalfan5 said:

Why shouldn't people be able to shout down views they find abhorrent? I think a bigger problem with society is people expecting headpats for their dumbass views, than a preponderance of safe spaces.

Because it denies others the opportunity to hear a message. 

 

 I went to see a number of speakers on campus when I was a student, and invariably there would be somebody standing up and yelling their position in the middle of a presentation. I’ll listen to your retarded views, but please can you wait until the guy we paid $100,000 to speak and who I waited 4 hours in line for tickets is done?

[Continental Op 3934]

3 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

You have no understanding of my civic involvement.

You bring the donuts.

[RDCanecutter 26274]

I can tell not a damn one o y'all teach.

Goals with students are for them to

1. Be there

2. Have some awareness of what the subject is

3. Be sober

4. Put down the phone

5. I said put down the fucking phone

6. Gotdammit if you won't put down the fucking phone, then use it to google Mariano Azuela and the Revolutionary Mexican Novel

7. Oh, so you don't have any data left on your fucking phone? Go to the board and conjugate "Ser". Hell yeah I'm serious. All y'all go up there with him, and help.

 

"Opening minds", "Shouting down", "Safe Spaces"-- crackers, that don't even make the list.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

I generally support exposure to unpopular ideas, but it is the job of professors to curate that experience.  Excluding some ideas is both necessary and good.  There will always be groups unhappy that they are excluded, and their remedy is the town square and private groups that support their message. 

[TexasFootball18 48]

preventing the opposing view is not opening minds, it is closing them off and making them a bubble. Look at Baylor to see where that gets you!

[Skyline 325]

Tahoe, do you think stormfront should be allowed a website, and for their writers to speak in all public forums? 

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, TahoeHorn said:

You have no understanding of my civic involvement.

You bring donuts to Republican meetings. That is how you've presented it.

But I'd be fascinated to know what civic involvement you have in your all-white community that brushes you up against any type of idea that challenges your fragile sense of self.

I think diversity of opinion and thought is fantastic. You will find no better venue for a diversity of voices than a college campus. Find the most narrow-minded lib university and there is zero reasonable doubt it is home to more varied ideas than Hazel Green, Alabama, and find the most narrow-minded lib university you can and they will be more tolerant of dissent than Hazel Green, Alabama.

An honest question: Who pays Milo to come to campus? Who fronts the cash? Do you have any idea? Is it an organic source of income from within the campus community or is it astroturfing paid for by the Kochs, Mercers, or similar? Do you know?

[TahoeHorn 107]

1 minute ago, Skyline said:

Tahoe, do you think stormfront should be allowed a website, and for their writers to speak in all public forums? 

 

- I don't know what stormfront is.

- I think we have a massive amount of law on who can have a website.  It is good law, and stormfront, and anybody else, should comply with the law.

- Nobody should have access to all public forums.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, TahoeHorn said:

Nope.  The opposite.  I'm advocating an aggressive exchange of ideas.  Attacking me isn't an idea.

 

Did you read the article?  Do you have a different view to present?

Yes, but I also read what you wrote.

"I think the idea that shouting down people with views you don't share or attacking them personally is horrendous.  I do not feel threatened by opposing views and don't understand why others do."

It seems like you don't want an aggressive response when it comes to your viewpoint.  "Shouting down" someone isn't the same as shutting them up.  If you think your view has merit, shout back.  If everyone seems to be shouting down your views, perhaps you should actually take a hard look at your views and first, make sure that you truly believe them, and second, understand why those "shouting you down" feel the way they do.  What you want is for people to be required to sit and listen to your viewpoint.  You want a safe space.  However, when you say something like "a woman's place is in the home and the kitchen," most women, and many men, are gonna tell you to "fuck off." 

The article itself is fine.

[Skyline 325]

Just now, TahoeHorn said:

- I don't know what stormfront is.

- I think we have a massive amount of law on who can have a website.  It is good law, and stormfront, and anybody else, should comply with the law.

- Nobody should have access to all public forums.

Stormfront was a neo-Nazi website. 

[TahoeHorn 107]

3 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

...

But I'd be fascinated to know what civic involvement you have in your all-white community that brushes you up against any type of idea that challenges your fragile sense of self.

...

My life is in Huntsville.  I live in a rural area. 

I am active in a civic club which is about a third Black and our projects help kids who are, I would guess,  disproportionately Black.

[Royalfan5 2348]

20 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Because it denies others the opportunity to hear a message. 

 

 I went to see a number of speakers on campus when I was a student, and invariably there would be somebody standing up and yelling their position in the middle of a presentation. I’ll listen to your retarded views, but please can you wait until the guy we paid $100,000 to speak and who I waited 4 hours in line for tickets is done?

That’s when it pays to be able to distribute the written word then, where people can consume it at their time and pace. Too much emphasis is placed on the act of speaking rather than the distribution of thought. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

31 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

My life is in Huntsville.  I live in a rural area. 

I am active in a civic club which is about a third Black and our projects help kids who are, I would guess,  disproportionately Black.

Sounds great, so why do you advocate taking those kids away from their parents and putting them in state-run orphanages? Seems weird.

Do you know who pays the Milos of the conservative world to go to college campuses? Is it because it's part of an organic campaign within those universities to present differing viewpoints? Or is it astroturfing paid for by billionaires?

[udaydanceparty 33]

51 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

Nope.  The opposite.  I'm advocating an aggressive exchange of ideas.  Attacking me isn't an idea.

It's pretty obvious that he isn't trying to exchange ideas with you.  He's trying to dominant you like a dog would.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

udaydanceparty - best username of all time

[Newdoc 3433]

I had an Argumentation and Advocacy professor (one of the best classes on the 40 acres back in the day) who I'm pretty sure was a liberal feminist lesbian.  However, she presented both sides of controversial material with reason and neutrality while analyzing all the complete bullshit that surrounded the message.  Besides my own prejudice on her appearance, it was difficult to tell where she stood on cultural and political topics. I wish I could remember her name.

Point is, none of y'all come close to this.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

That’d be a sick burn if anyone here was trying to keep our personal opinions from being obvious. 

[Goredho 17348]

I’ll play along.  I found this statement in the article interesting:

Quote

But “students who join cultural/ethnic clubs,” the researchers write, have “significantly fewer interracial friendships in their first year of college than do students who do not join these clubs.”

Is there any more exclusory cultural/ethnic club than the current GOP?  It’s primary aims seem to be to protect the interests of the upper economic strata, to preserve an eroding old order that strongly favors a single class of citizens and to erect a Christian theocracy.

You can be black and in it, but only if you stay politely quiet about police brutality, ignore the measures put in place to deter people of your race from voting and can put up with white supremacists sieg heiling the leader of the party.

You can be brown and in it, but only if you support building a wall between America and Mexico, can accept being ignored during a natural disaster and can stomach the party’s support of criminals like Joe Arpaio that illegaly abuse their power to harm people of your ethnicity.

You can be a woman in the GOP, but only if you accept a lower wage scale than men, limited opportunities provided by a 1950’s view towards gender and applaud the leadership of a man that views you as the life support system for a pussy.

You can be LGBTQADGJCHJ in it, but only if you accept that you are a sinner, condemned to hell unless you repent or are at least willing to suppress yourself to the degree that you can present a facade of heterosexual conformity.

You can be poor-to-middle-class and be a part of the GOP, but only if you are content with the crumbs from the table where corporations feast, can stomache the dismantling of the only education you can afford for your children and are too stupid to see that the 1%ers protected by the party are the strategic decision makers that have chosen to outsource/automate away your jobs or source goods/materials from foreign companies.

You can be a non-Christian in the GOP, but only if you are against abortion, accept the legislation of scripture and the systemic erosion of science and empiricism whenever it disagrees with the Bible.

The non-acceptance of intolerance is not intolerance.  It’s taking a stand against intolerance.  The current GOP promotes policies and pursues laws that are discriminatory, racist, sexist, bigoted, xenophobic, theocratic and otherwise harmful to those that are not wealthy Christian white males.  It provides a haven for people that are not tolerant of others, normalizes their beliefs and gives them enough collective weight to shape our society to their liking.

So, I say fuck the current GOP and their supporters.  Your ideology as demonstrated by the actions of your leaders currently holding the reigns of power reflect the worst examples of intolerance our society has to offer.  Your intent is to build an America that is vile and abhorrent.  It is my sincerest hope that the current Republican Party will be burned to the ground and replaced with a conservative party rooted in the ideals of self-sufficiency, limited government, fiscal responsibility, societal well-being and religious disinterest.

If those opinions make me intolerant in your eyes, fuck off, I don’t care.  Go to your safe space and jerk off while reading Trump’s Twitter stream or the Hillary will never be President thread.

 

[SKJ 1305]

18 hours ago, TahoeHorn said:

 

- Nobody should have access to all public forums.

Mande?

[Lao Tzu 3]

Sincere words are not fine; fine words are not sincere. Those
who are skilled in the Tao do not dispute about it; the
disputatious are not skilled in it. Those who know the Tao are not
extensively learned; the extensively learned do not know it.

The sage does not accumulate for himself. The more that he
expends for others, the more does he possess of his own; the more that
he gives to others, the more does he have himself.

With all the sharpness of the Way of Heaven, it injures not; with
all the doing in the way of the sage he does not strive.

[bernorange 8348]

19 hours ago, TahoeHorn said:

...

How do you feel about "opening minds"?  ...

In general, I'm opposed to curb stomping.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

19 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The more engagement and exposure to differing views and opinions the better in my opinion.

However, there are a few things that should not be tolerated in civil society; like racism, sexism, xenophobia, and ageism.

That sounds good, but who gets to decide what is racist, sexist, etc.

By many measures, this site would be considered sexist as hell. Should we shout down those who want to post tites?

[SKJ 1305]

18 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

udaydanceparty - best username of all time

Well, I mean, it is yours...

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

That sounds good, but who gets to decide what is racist, sexist, etc.

By many measures, this site would be considered sexist as hell. Should we shout down those who want to post tites?

If someone wanted to come here and talk about how sexist and racist this site is (which it proudly is on both accounts), they would get shouted down, negged, and banned. It happens already.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

If someone wanted to come here and talk about how sexist and racist this site is (which it proudly is on both accounts), they would get shouted down, negged, and banned. It happens already.

So the loudest voice determines what is considered acceptable? 

[bad_teammate 13132]

1 minute ago, Cheeseweasel said:

So the loudest voice determines what is considered acceptable? 

In a given venue, that can be the case, yes. What else would you even propose, some panel of government judges going onto private message boards and setting the rules and boundaries for discussion?

Dude, just say, "It makes me sad when people say things I don't like" and move on.

Edited March 27, 2018 by bad_teammate

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

In a given venue, that can be the case, yes. What else would you even propose, some panel of government judges going onto private message boards and setting the rules and boundaries for discussion?

I think we were discussing "open minds". It's easy to ignore someone without shouting them down. Stopping someone from speaking only makes them a martyr and probably has the opposite effect of what is intended. 

[Armybrat 40741]

I have yet to see a bare titty on this site.

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Just now, Cheeseweasel said:

Stopping someone from speaking only makes them a martyr and probably has the opposite effect of what is intended. 

Silencing and deplatforming can work extremely well. Think of how many libs have been shouted down on FOX and how many times they've not allowed lib voices. Did that turn their audience towards becoming more sympathetic to libs? Hell no.

Milo was shouted down and deplatformed and where is he now? Is he a huge ideological leader or a broken sideshow?

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

Would anyone know who Milo was if he wasn't shouted down?

[Brian Fantana 6668]

9 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Would anyone know who Milo was if he wasn't shouted down?

Would that neo-Nazi have driven his car through protesters if the protesters weren't there?

Forgive me if it's not Stupid Fucking Questions Day, I'm just trying to play along.

[bad_teammate 13132]

12 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Would anyone know who Milo was if he wasn't shouted down?

Milo became well-known before his campus tour, and the Mercers had already given him millions for his campus trolling tour.

 

[bad_teammate 13132]

4 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Would that neo-Nazi have driven his car through protesters if the protesters weren't there?

Forgive me if it's not Stupid Fucking Questions Day, I'm just trying to play along.

Careful, boy, you're gonna cut yourself on that edge.

[Brian Fantana 6668]

I'm just pointing out that the suggestion that we should just ignore hateful people is retarded.

[HoustonHorn 1061]

22 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The more engagement and exposure to differing views and opinions the better in my opinion.

However, there are a few things that should not be tolerated in civil society; like racism, sexism, xenophobia, and ageism.

So why not let these people speak so they can be easily identified? Letting them speak doesn't indicate tolerance. In fact, I'd say its an opportunity to show the people being spoken against that more people are with them than against them.

[udaydanceparty 33]

39 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Would anyone know who Milo was if he wasn't shouted down?

 

Who?

[bad_teammate 13132]

Holy shit I just noticed that udaydancparty has negged me 6 times in 2 days lol

I'm flattered!

[Caddox 952]

When a country becomes too polarized violence follows. Universities are a good indicator for where we are in that process. If you can’t have an open conversation there we are in trouble (and we are.) 

This is especially true in the humanities which have basically lost any conservative (or even neutral) voice. Keep in mind I’m not saying they should be predominantly conservative. I’m saying students are now overwhelmingly “taught” by biased professors who seek to influence their students with their own politics. 

Thats not the way it’s supposed to work and we are just beginning to see that play out now.