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The Sad State of Texas College Football

Huckleberry

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32701

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Meaning the State of Texas overall (not that we're hot stuff compared to where we should be). Here is the Massey Composite followed by the teams from Texas:

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

#20. Texas
#29. Texas Tech
#33. TCU
#41. Texas A&M
#45. North Texas
#52. Houston
#64. Baylor
#97. SMU
#122. UTSA
#126. Rice
#129. Texas St.
#130. UTEP

There are 130 teams. The top end is depressing enough, but the fact that 4 of the worst 9 teams in the country come from Texas is embarrassing. Ohio has 8 teams and no other state has more than 7 FBS teams. Texas simply has too many teams. Hell, at this point I think as the flagship of the system we should just order UTSA and UTEP to disband their football programs or else drop to FCS.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32701

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45 minutes ago, Thiefery said:

Doesn't these things go in cycles or something?

This isn't a cycle, this is horrific.

44 minutes ago, bluto said:

Then there's talk of more Tx schools adding fball programs (UTA is I think), so very very dumb

They can all add FCS programs to their heart's content. In fact there's no reason why all the UT satellite schools couldn't be in an FCS conference together.

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Valmy77

Valmy77 13094

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Embarrassed? They were proud as hell to lose to Ohio State in the Sugar Bowl.

Their delight in getting destroyed 24-14 as Big 12 Champs epitomizes why Texas A&M will never be a football power.

Quote

NEW ORLEANS-- Ohio State players, coaches and fans came to the Bayou State with one purpose in mind: To ring in 1999 with a Sugar Bowl victory befitting the Big Easy's nickname.

And in the end, the boisterous, cocksure Buckeyes did indeed get their win. But it wasn't by a big margin, and it certainly wasn't easy. The underdog and under-appreciated Texas Aggies gave their Big Ten-champion counterparts far more than they bargained for in front of 76,503 fans at the Louisiana Superdome.

In fact, for 53 minutes and 25 seconds of play, the Aggies did more than enough to make the Buckeye fans sweat out their New Year's Eve hangovers. Unfortunately for A&M, it was that other 6:35 of play that gave OSU fans a reason to revel throughout all corners of the French Quarter.

"We played a great team, and we played pretty well at times," Texas A&M freshman fullback Ja'Mar Toombs said following the Aggies' 24-14 loss. "They were ranked No. 1 for a long time, and there's a reason for that. They're very talented. But I think we proved we are, too. We just got too far behind."

Ohio State (11-1) used two impressive drives and a key blocked punt to score 21 points in a span of 6:35 in the first quarter. That proved to he enough for the Buckeyes to register a hard-fought win. But it wasn't what OSU had envisioned in the days in weeks leading up to the Sugar Bowl.

The Buckeyes, who spent nine weeks ranked No. 1 in the nation, wanted to destroy the Aggies (11-3) and stake their claim to the national title. That simply wasn't the case, as Texas A&M stood toe-to-toe with Ohio State and frequently had OSU on its heels.

A&M became only the second team this season to hold the Buckeyes to as few as 24 points (Michigan State also held OSU to that total in the Buckeyes' lone loss). And the Aggies became the first team to hold the high-powered Ohio State offense scoreless in the second half.

In otherwords, it was a struggle for the Buckeyes, not a stroll.

If it wouldn't have been for that little scoring outburst they had, it could have been a whole different ballgame," A&M junior running back Dante Hall said. "But we never panicked, and there in the second half, I kind of thought we might be on the verge of another Kansas State-type comeback."

Even with a convincing 24-7 lead at the intermission, Ohio State coach John Cooper spent plenty of time in the locker room reminding his players about A&M's heroic, late-season comebacks.

"At halftime, we were talking about the Kansas State game," Cooper said of the Big 12 title game in which the Aggies overcame a 15-point fourth-quarter deficit to win in double overtime. "(The Aggies) were getting the second-half kickoff, and we knew what they did in the second half against Kansas State."

Despite the warning, the Buckeyes appeared to be on the verge of buckling several times in the second half. First, A&M quarterback Branndon Stewart hit Leroy Hodge on a 7-yard scoring pass to cut the lead to 24-14 with 5:24 left in the third quarter.

Then, after stuffing OSU on its next series, A&M drove to as deep as the Ohio State 33, as the Superdome rocked and resembled - in appearance and volume level - Kyle Field with a roof on it.

"We had them on their heels, and this place was going nuts," A&M senior tight end Dan Campbell said. "That's the frustrating thing to me. If we make it 24-21, I really would have liked to have seen (the Superdome) crowd. And I would have liked to have seen how (Ohio State) responded to it."

To the Aggies' chagrin, the Buckeyes never had to deal with that kind of pressure late in the game. A&M's late third-quarter drive into Buckeye territory was halted by a penalty and a sack. Then with the Aggies marching early in the fourth quarter. Stewart's lateral pass to Toombs was recovered by OSU at the Aggies' 48.

That killed a promising A&M drive and effectively ended the Aggies' comeback momentum. Ohio State simply held on the rest of the way to send the Aggies to their fifth-straight New Years Day bowl loss.

"(Ohio State) knew they had been in a war," Campbell said. "That much, I know for sure."

The Buckeyes should have sensed that from the opening kickoff. A&M forced OSU to go three-and-out on its first offensive possession of the game, and then A&M went on an impressive touchdown march. A&M drove 59 yards in six plays, with Hall capping the drive with a 9-yard scoring run to give the Aggies an early 7-0 lead.

Then on OSU's next possession, the Buckeyes faced a third-and-l5 at their own 24. But OSU quarterback Joe Germaine completed a 28-yard pass to a wide-open Dee Miller to give the Buckeyes a big first down. Three plays later, Germaine hit Reggie Germany on an 18-yard scoring pass, and OSU's touchdown barrage had officially begun.

If that wasn't the key play of the game, then the blocked punt some six minutes later was. With OSU leading 14-7, Ohio State's Derek Ross blocked Shane Lechler's punt, and Kevin Griffin scooped it up and ran 16 yards for the score to put the Buckeyes up, 21-7. It was the first blocked punt against the Aggies since 1993, and it proved to be devastating.

"That was a significant play," A&M head coach R.C. Slocum said. "Being behind 21-7 is a whole lot different than being behind 14-7. Our team settled down and played a whole lot better in the second half, but it took us too long to get it going."

But unlike most games this year, the Aggies' magic ran out in the end, as a brilliant season met with a bitter end. Still, the Aggies proved all year long - and again in the Sugar Bowl - that they belong on the same center stage with the elite teams of college football.

"It's disappointing to end the season with a loss, but I can't say enough about my team," Slocum said. "We were Big 12 Champions, won 11 games and played eight bowl teams. A loss (in the Sugar Bowl) doesn't take away from a tremendous season."

When I read that at the time, I couldn't believe that was their reaction to a disappointing performance in their biggest game in years (and they have not played in a bigger game since). But I did not fully comprehend what they were all about back then.

'Underdog' 'Underappreciated'? You were the Big 12 Champions and ranked in the top 10 FFS, not some FCS school just happy to be given the chance to be in the same building as the great John Cooper.

Edited by Valmy77
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Valmy77

Valmy77 13094

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1 minute ago, Bruh Man said:

Blame the wimpy football on the high school level.

That and the talent is spread thin in addition to being routinely raided by out of state schools.

There is a reason we have had a more national, or at least regional, recruiting strategy lately.

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CowboyFred

CowboyFred 1151

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I've gotta say not bad for UTSA not being dead last.  They've been around for less than 10 years and here in sa the population is taking a liking to them.  Also helps that some of their players make it pro (Davenport with the Saints and Morgan with the Vikings are two that come to mind).  IMO they should be competing for conference titles pretty soon that will only add to the buzz around them.

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Vertigo

Vertigo 20267

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6 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Meaning the State of Texas overall (not that we're hot stuff compared to where we should be). Here is the Massey Composite followed by the teams from Texas:

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

#20. Texas
#29. Texas Tech
#33. TCU
#41. Texas A&M
#45. North Texas
#52. Houston
#64. Baylor
#97. SMU
#122. UTSA
#126. Rice
#129. Texas St.
#130. UTEP

There are 130 teams. The top end is depressing enough, but the fact that 4 of the worst 9 teams in the country come from Texas is embarrassing. Ohio has 8 teams and no other state has more than 7 FBS teams. Texas simply has too many teams. Hell, at this point I think as the flagship of the system we should just order UTSA and UTEP to disband their football programs or else drop to FCS.

I hear what you are trying to say, but UTSA and Texas St are really new D1 programs. Rice has never been a football school, and UTEP is a barren wasteland of a school with natural recruiting bases in New Mexico and the West Texas kids that don't go to Tech. As much talent as is in the state, there is still really only enough to support 4-5 major D1 programs plus the out of state poachers. Texas, aggy, Tech, and a revolving door of 2 lower tier schools who may be good at any given time. Right now, TCU and Houston are up, but it was Baylor and TCU through much of the last decade. Houston's rise coincided with Baylor's fall give or take a year or two.  

Historically there is one dominant program in any state. Florida, California and Texas being the outliers where you may see up to 3 truly dominant programs at one time, and even then, I don't think there has ever been a time where both Texas and aggy were national contenders at the same time.  

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txbroadcaster

txbroadcaster 110

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1 minute ago, Bruh Man said:

can you name 5 high school programs in this state that consistently play great defense? it's normal now to have teams combine for 1000 yds of offense these days. nobody takes pride in defense anymore. 

Yes I could name 5...could also name way more. It has nothing to do with pride. Offenses today can attack the defenses in so many ways that were not used before. What used to be a 14-6 game and be called defensive is now a 28-24 game not because of lack of talent or pride. 

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Huckleberry

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15 minutes ago, Vertigo said:

I hear what you are trying to say, but UTSA and Texas St are really new D1 programs. Rice has never been a football school, and UTEP is a barren wasteland of a school with natural recruiting bases in New Mexico and the West Texas kids that don't go to Tech. As much talent as is in the state, there is still really only enough to support 4-5 major D1 programs plus the out of state poachers. Texas, aggy, Tech, and a revolving door of 2 lower tier schools who may be good at any given time. Right now, TCU and Houston are up, but it was Baylor and TCU through much of the last decade. Houston's rise coincided with Baylor's fall give or take a year or two.  

Historically there is one dominant program in any state. Florida, California and Texas being the outliers where you may see up to 3 truly dominant programs at one time, and even then, I don't think there has ever been a time where both Texas and aggy were national contenders at the same time.  

UTSA and Texas State have gotten worse, not better, since they've been FBS programs. Youth of the program has almost nothing to do with it. I'm not looking for the scrub teams in our state to all be in bowl games. I'm looking for them not to be the absolute dregs of college football. Take the end of 2013 for example.

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/arch/compare2013-16.htm

That's not great. But it's not this.

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Bruh Man

Bruh Man 3160

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13 minutes ago, txbroadcaster said:

Yes I could name 5...could also name way more. It has nothing to do with pride. Offenses today can attack the defenses in so many ways that were not used before. What used to be a 14-6 game and be called defensive is now a 28-24 game not because of lack of talent or pride. 

name them.

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txhorns

txhorns 2408

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34 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

To be fair, East Texas State is the defending national champs in D2 was ranked #1 until they got beaten by a mighty RMAC team (pardon the redundancy) last week.

Midwestern State is ranked #5.  

They play each other this weekend.

I will be at this game and it will be a blast

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18656

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1 hour ago, Bruh Man said:

can you name 5 high school programs in this state that consistently play great defense? it's normal now to have teams combine for 1000 yds of offense these days. nobody takes pride in defense anymore. 

Yep. The dirty little secret is that the problem is Texas high school football.

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Bruh Man

Bruh Man 3160

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43 minutes ago, txbroadcaster said:

For Fun I will do one a class

6A Katy
5A Aledo
4A Waco La Vega
3A Brock or Newton
2A Mason

That is just top of head. 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Allen
Austin Westlake
Katy
Lake Travis
Cedar Park
Cibolo Steele
Spring Westfield
The Woodlands
Galena Park North Shore

LOL other than GPNS and Katy, none of those teams play consistently GREAT defense. i said great not good. 

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dingleberryswitzer

dingleberryswitzer 2724

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1 hour ago, CowboyFred said:

I've gotta say not bad for UTSA not being dead last.  They've been around for less than 10 years and here in sa the population is taking a liking to them.  Also helps that some of their players make it pro (Davenport with the Saints and Morgan with the Vikings are two that come to mind).  IMO they should be competing for conference titles pretty soon that will only add to the buzz around them.

Frank wilson has been underwhelming.  

Maybe some one with  more academic knowledge can shed some light on the education quality between some of these texas schools and other no name schools from out of state. How do utsa, uh, baylor and utep stack up  against loiusville, south florida, Boise st, bowling Green etc.  

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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8 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Meaning the State of Texas overall (not that we're hot stuff compared to where we should be). Here is the Massey Composite followed by the teams from Texas:

https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm

#20. Texas
#29. Texas Tech
#33. TCU
#41. Texas A&M
#45. North Texas
#52. Houston
#64. Baylor
#97. SMU
#122. UTSA
#126. Rice
#129. Texas St.
#130. UTEP

There are 130 teams. The top end is depressing enough, but the fact that 4 of the worst 9 teams in the country come from Texas is embarrassing. Ohio has 8 teams and no other state has more than 7 FBS teams. Texas simply has too many teams. Hell, at this point I think as the flagship of the system we should just order UTSA and UTEP to disband their football programs or else drop to FCS.

It could be argued that Rice would be in the top 100, if a member of a P5 conference, being in the Houston metro area...

Edited by kopp0e
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Treefidy

Treefidy 1463

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2 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

Blame the wimpy football on the high school level.

Nah, HS football hasn't changed that much.  You don't really get to pick your players, they are a product of the community (few exceptions). Put big kids on the line, try to find fast kids who can catch at receivers and DB, QB is still going to be one of the 2-3 best atheletes on the team.  

The spread offenses have made defense much harder at every level particularly the lower ones.  On offense you have your system you work on every week, in theory getting better as the year moves on.  On defense you also have inexperienced players but you are having to scheme against other teams each week   Used to be run plays and pass plays, recognize and react  now it's much more complicated with RPOs, just ask Kris Boyd.  You can't just stick to a receiver and try not to get sucked into a double move, you have to keep your eye on the run play that might spring out of a passing set 

If you have a good QB who can go through progressions and a line that can give him a little time, it's hell on a defense because he just finds the open man.  If you put extra defenders out to help the pass, you have a numbers mismatch inside and get killed by the run. 

It's not just TXHSF either, probably 80% of college now play some form of pro-spread, V&S, RPO, zone-read, etc.  

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TexasGrunt

TexasGrunt 72

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Son plays Varsity in Katy at Seven Lakes.  Not sure about other schools but Strength and Conditioning is a joke and favoritism and entitlement is normal, at least at his school. They do not lift during the season, never have and they don't develop or teach skills at all.  It's all team practice, no drills to get better fundamentally and it shows on game day.  But, these are high school coaches....

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txbroadcaster

txbroadcaster 110

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4 minutes ago, Treefidy said:

Nah, HS football hasn't changed that much.  You don't really get to pick your players, they are a product of the community (few exceptions). Put big kids on the line, try to find fast kids who can catch at receivers and DB, QB is still going to be one of the 2-3 best atheletes on the team.  

The spread offenses have made defense much harder at every level particularly the lower ones.  On offense you have your system you work on every week, in theory getting better as the year moves on.  On defense you also have inexperienced players but you are having to scheme against other teams each week   Used to be run plays and pass plays, recognize and react  now it's much more complicated with RPOs, just ask Kris Boyd.  You can't just stick to a receiver and try not to get sucked into a double move, you have to keep your eye on the run play that might spring out of a passing set 

If you have a good QB who can go through progressions and a line that can give him a little time, it's hell on a defense because he just finds the open man.  If you put extra defenders out to help the pass, you have a numbers mismatch inside and get killed by the run. 

It's not just TXHSF either, probably 80% of college now play some form of pro-spread, V&S, RPO, zone-read, etc.  

At the HS level the variety of offenses these days also puts the defense at a disadvantage. A defense will regularly see Run spread..pass spread..Slot T...Wing T back to back to back weeks. They only have so much time each week to truly gameplan the variances. 

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txbroadcaster

txbroadcaster 110

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1 minute ago, TexasGrunt said:

Son plays Varsity in Katy at Seven Lakes.  Not sure about other schools but Strength and Conditioning is a joke and favoritism and entitlement is normal, at least at his school. They do not lift during the season, never have and they don't develop or teach skills at all.  It's all team practice, no drills to get better fundamentally and it shows on game day.  But, these are high school coaches....

Prob why they have had like 2 winning season since they opened in 06

Edited by txbroadcaster
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2 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

can you name 5 high school programs in this state that consistently play great defense? it's normal now to have teams combine for 1000 yds of offense these days. nobody takes pride in defense anymore. 

the offenses have changed, as well.  It ain't 40 running plays and 5 passes any more.

 

High school ball is as good as it has ever been and Texas still consistently produces talent that plays at the next level.

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closetojumping

closetojumping 62243

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29 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Frank wilson has been underwhelming.  

Maybe some one with  more academic knowledge can shed some light on the education quality between some of these texas schools and other no name schools from out of state. How do utsa, uh, baylor and utep stack up  against loiusville, south florida, Boise st, bowling Green etc.  

Regarding Frank Wilson, I'd like to see him continue to linger in the range of .500, even if it is done via beating up terrible competition. I don't want to see that cheating motherfucker recruiting at LSU again or joining the ranks of bagmen at ATM. He'd wind up for sure at one of them, as he has strong ties with both staffs. 

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Treefidy

Treefidy 1463

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5 minutes ago, txbroadcaster said:

At the HS level the variety of offenses these days also puts the defense at a disadvantage. A defense will regularly see Run spread..pass spread..Slot T...Wing T back to back to back weeks. They only have so much time each week to truly gameplan the variances. 

Yes.  1,000 years ago playing either Killeen or Temple area school, they ran a triple option.  Left, right, left, right.  They also had a 250lb bowling ball FB and my job was apparently to get steamrolled every other play to distract him, so that someone else could try and make the play.   The good news was I had every other down off when they rolled over the other side.  

Worst day ever, obviously I can still remember an eon later.  The next week was some passing team and a lot more fun. Defense is reactionary and has to do the most adjusting week to week to counter the offense they are playing.  

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ztejas

ztejas 43266

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2 hours ago, Bruh Man said:

can you name 5 high school programs in this state that consistently play great defense? it's normal now to have teams combine for 1000 yds of offense these days. nobody takes pride in defense anymore. 

Texas HS football is on another level than anywhere else in the country. Defense in high school is hard - especially when you're facing college-level offenses that a lot of the top HS coaches in Texas install. Just because teams in Texas aren't winning with those kids doesn't mean teams outside the state aren't. 

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bolverk

bolverk 29399

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Interesting discussion. Given that there are 130 FBS teams in a country whose population is 328.7 million, that would imply a ratio of one FBS team per 2.5 million people. Texas has 12 teams and a population of 28.3 million, which would mean we "should" have 11.32 teams. Not too far off from what would be expected.

Of course, I recognize vast swaths of the country are barren wastelands when it comes to FBS football. The Northeast comes to mind.

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Beau Vine

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23 minutes ago, TexasGrunt said:

Son plays Varsity in Katy at Seven Lakes.  Not sure about other schools but Strength and Conditioning is a joke and favoritism and entitlement is normal, at least at his school. They do not lift during the season, never have and they don't develop or teach skills at all.  It's all team practice, no drills to get better fundamentally and it shows on game day.  But, these are high school coaches....

I'm guessing you've explained why 7L is traditionally terrible, because that's not what I hear about any other HS programs.  

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shnsajax

shnsajax 3589

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I honestly don't know why UTSA or Texas St wanted to be D1? California only has 7 FBS and 4 FCS teams.

But still this seems like a good time to point out that UCLA is 0-4 and really really terrible and ranked ahead of Nebraska, Arkansas, Rutgers, and Oregon St. 

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ztejas

ztejas 43266

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http://highschoolfootballamerica.com/38-states-plus-washington-dc-three-countries-represented-2016-nfl-draft/

More NFL players taken in 2016 draft from Texas than any other state

https://usatodayhss.com/2016/which-states-produced-the-most-class-of-2016-fbs-college-football-players

2nd only to Florida in FBS players

 

I mean it's basically Florida/CA/TX and then everyone else. But I earnestly believe that the "middle of the pack" teams in Texas are probably better than those in Florida and CA. I.e. the kids that aren't good enough to play college. 

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Given that Oklahoma has 35(out of 100+) players from Texas, I'd add them to this list and it doesn't look as bad:

 

# 7. Oklahoma

#20. Texas
#29. Texas Tech
#33. TCU
#41. Texas A&M
#45. North Texas
#52. Houston
#64. Baylor
#97. SMU
#122. UTSA
#126. Rice
#129. Texas St.
#130. UTEP
 

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