2018 Lawn and Landscape Thread

[texasdago 7575]

Want a great fast-growing, strong and durable tree?  Montezuma Cypress.  Speaking from experience.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Lacey oaks are outstanding. 

That's typical for bigtooth. The same thing with Japanese. Slow growing =longer maintenance for grower = more money. 

[McFly 606]

18 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

Yeah, I'm stumped. It's possible that it's the new leaves on live oaks, but I don't think so. Nobody will care if she gets a close up of the pasture ones. Except maybe you if she gets stuck in the ditch. 

I don't think ligustrum gets that color even with new growth in spring. Huisache? Western Soapberry? Nah too shrubby.

Striking out 

YES!! Huisache is it!  I knew someone would come through.  +rep

[McFly 606]

18 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

Yeah, I'm stumped. It's possible that it's the new leaves on live oaks, but I don't think so. Nobody will care if she gets a close up of the pasture ones. Except maybe you if she gets stuck in the ditch. 

I don't think ligustrum gets that color even with new growth in spring. Huisache? Western Soapberry? Nah too shrubby.

Striking out 

YES!! Huisache is it!  I knew someone would come through.  +rep

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

Are there any good liquid fertilizers for use on St. Augustine?

[capnamerca 571]

Most questions on this thread are about how to make things grow. Allow me to be a contrarian :). I've got a stretch of my yard between my house and a big limestone vein (we're on a hillside lot). I've turned the stretch into a river rock xeriscape, and it won't ever grow anything on purpose. I can say that confidently because I'm not pulling that river rock out anytime ever, and I need the walkway access so it won't ever have shrubs/bushes. Thus ... I want to keep the area weed-free. I want to literally salt the earth. My current plan is to buy bulk salt from Costo (or maybe pool salt), and just sprinkle it down like the worlds best anti-fertilizer. Any other thoughts from the master gardeners on the thread?

[Llano Estacado 1257]

What’s this St Augustine patch that didn’t grow back? Brown Patch fungus? Don’t see any grubs or insects and the thatch is still pretty solidly rooted, (doesn’t lift out like I’ve seen with grubs)

[TXs 226]

Looks to be filling in

[texasdago 7575]

22 hours ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Are there any good liquid fertilizers for use on St. Augustine?

I like Micro Life products... can't remember if they have liquid products or not.  That said, when I want to spray liquid fertilizer, I use Medina Hasta-Grow.

[Nonbryan 173]

I'm looking for a good fast growing evergreen shrub to build a hedge/barrier up next to an elevated deck so you cant see under the deck. It needs to be able to grow to approx 7ft-8ft tall.  I had a Texas Sage there but it dies.  It's on the East side of the house so it gets am sun and pm shade.  Any suggestions?

[LebongJames 1813]

If I put a pre emergent and fertilizer down 2 weeks ago on Bermuda (second round of pre emergent) can I put down a top soil on the yard.

The yard is very uneven and the Bermuda has never grown in very thick in certain areas.

 

About to be second summer in new build/sod.

Edited April 15, 2019 by LebongJames

[drt 640]

On 4/11/2019 at 1:37 PM, capnamerca said:

Most questions on this thread are about how to make things grow. Allow me to be a contrarian :). I've got a stretch of my yard between my house and a big limestone vein (we're on a hillside lot). I've turned the stretch into a river rock xeriscape, and it won't ever grow anything on purpose. I can say that confidently because I'm not pulling that river rock out anytime ever, and I need the walkway access so it won't ever have shrubs/bushes. Thus ... I want to keep the area weed-free. I want to literally salt the earth. My current plan is to buy bulk salt from Costo (or maybe pool salt), and just sprinkle it down like the worlds best anti-fertilizer. Any other thoughts from the master gardeners on the thread?

Spot treat roundup as weeds appear, wait 2 days, pull by hand.  Repeat as necessary.  The salt will wash away somewhere, likely where you don't want it to be, and likely killing the non-hardscaped part of your yard.

[capnamerca 571]

18 hours ago, drt said:

Spot treat roundup as weeds appear, wait 2 days, pull by hand.  Repeat as necessary.  The salt will wash away somewhere, likely where you don't want it to be, and likely killing the non-hardscaped part of your yard.

Unintended consequences, that's honestly a great reminder. That area definitely carries a lot of water during storms, so my scorched earth idea is probably not a good one :).

 

However, glycosophate is some bad stuff. Even in the 2% forumulations that regular RoundUp comes in. Any ideas for a weed killer that won't cause my grandchildren to have three eyes?

[TXs 226]

11 hours ago, capnamerca said:

Unintended consequences, that's honestly a great reminder. That area definitely carries a lot of water during storms, so my scorched earth idea is probably not a good one :).

 

 However, glycosophate is some bad stuff. Even in the 2% forumulations that regular RoundUp comes in. Any ideas for a weed killer that won't cause my grandchildren to have three eyes?

2,4-D 

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Is the best way to fill in low spots of St A just to add topsoil then sod on top?  

[texasdago 7575]

Are we talking low spots with no grass or low spots with grass?

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Grass present.

[TXs 226]

Sand

[DougO 5251]

Dealer Days on now, but Stihl Kombi system is going on sale April 22, 15% off. If you don't have one, get it. You will not regret. It's the only way I like to use a saw any more, much easier on the aging bones and joints and a lot safer, too.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

On 4/15/2019 at 2:20 PM, LebongJames said:

If I put a pre emergent and fertilizer down 2 weeks ago on Bermuda (second round of pre emergent) can I put down a top soil on the yard.

The yard is very uneven and the Bermuda has never grown in very thick in certain areas.

 

About to be second summer in new build/sod.

Yes, you can top dress those areas. If they catch some windblown seeds kill'em as needed.

On 4/18/2019 at 10:22 AM, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Is the best way to fill in low spots of St A just to add topsoil then sod on top?  

Most cheap bagged topsoil is primarily sand with a hint of pine bark. If it's a solid spot of turf you can cut it out and set it aside, bring it up to grade with fill dirt, and then replace the sod. Ground under repair yo.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

On 4/12/2019 at 9:09 AM, Llano Estacado said:

What’s this St Augustine patch that didn’t grow back? Brown Patch fungus? Don’t see any grubs or insects and the thatch is still pretty solidly rooted, (doesn’t lift out like I’ve seen with grubs)

You got some funk. I think I see a bit of gray leaf spot on some of it. Brown patch is also possible. There are some leaf sheaths that look suspicious. The spot is worse than the patch. It'll regrow from patch as it gets hotter, spot keeps on taking territory. 

[Llano Estacado 1257]

It'll regrow from patch as it gets hotter, spot keeps on taking territory. 

Can you expand on this please? You saying the Brown Patch will get killed in summer temps, but the GLS will take more grass as it warms? It seems I’ve had more fungus funk issues than any of my neighbors. Super frustrating as lots of them appear to do the old school little bit of water every evening thing.

I had some pellet fungicide down already. Hit the patch in the pic and a high shade area in the back that had some GLS late last year with whatever Bayer fungicide spray Ace had last weekend. Going to monitor for 2 weeks and reassess?

[cactusflinthead 27601]

I really prefer the sprays. Yes, it is an ongoing problem. I'll try my hand at photoshop later to isolate what I'm seeing. Brown patch is also known as rhizoctonia. It prefers cooler weather. The distinctive symptom of brown patch is browning at the sheath (where a blade wraps around the adjacent one). A topical spray on a rotation of 14-28 days. You can certainly try alternative fungicides. Bonide has a few. See if I can turn up some actual studies other than what J Howard might have to say.  

Yes, it's not unknown to see an outbreak limited to a small area. 

More later.

 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Edited April 21, 2019 by cactusflinthead

[cactusflinthead 27601]

I'm looking for some of the things I left at the old place. The hardiness map was too cool to leave behind. It's Gardening 101, but I like it. There are a few things like this one from @solamente73 that I wonder if they made it. Also @phdhorn and his oleanders. 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Alright ass faces, here's an opportunity to save some money if you receive your water from the LCRA and are going to replace components in your irrigation system. They offer a rebate (up to $350) for retrofitting your system with water saving components.

Check here if you get your water from the LCRA. http://www.lcra.org/water/water-supp..._contracts.pdf 
 

 

Residential

If you are an LCRA domestic use customer, or a residential customer who receives water from one of these firm water customers, you can receive a rebate to help make your automatic irrigation systems more efficient. Rebates of up to $350 per system or 50 percent of the total cost, whichever is less, are available for the following equipment: pressure-reducing heads or nozzles, soil moisture sensors and rain sensors.

Download the application to apply for a rebate. http://www.lcra.org/water/watersmart...Irr_Rebate.pdf

Learn about rebate amounts >>
Pressure-reducing heads or nozzles: Up to $5 per head or nozzle.
Pressure regulating valves: Up to $100 per valve.
Soil moisture sensors: Up to $250 per soil moisture sensor.
Rain sensors: Up to $50 per rain sensor.

http://www.lcra.org/water/watersmart/Pages/rebates.aspx

 

This is still useful. From @Blain

[phdhorn 6224]

4 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

I'm looking for some of the things I left at the old place. The hardiness map was too cool to leave behind. It's Gardening 101, but I like it. There are a few things like this one from @solamente73 that I wonder if they made it. Also @phdhorn and his oleanders. 

Nope. Only one bad freezing weekend that year and it was enough to kill it. Third try, I went to crepe myrtle.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Quote

 

Bolding that last sentence because There is No Cure, there is only maintenance. I don't expect to cure the zoysia at the large corporate HQ. I hope to keep it alive and not looking half dead. 

 

 

A couple of questions on the err umm 'picturesque' yaupon holly tree. Is this an area that gets a lot of run off from rain or irrigation, does it stay wet a lot? 

Gut says it is phytopthora. You would have to send it to Ong at aggy disease lab to know for certain. Subdue granular is about 150 for a big bag. There are phosphoric acid drenches that are used in rotation with the Subdue/mefenoxam(sp?) 

 

Phytophthora Root Rot: The water mold fungus, Phytophthora cinnamomi, causes root rot on hollies growing in very poorly drained sites or wet areas. Planting too deeply and over-mulching may also contribute to disease development. The symptoms of this disease and black root rot are similar. Typically, yellowing of the leaves (particularly at the shoot tips), early leaf drop, slowed plant growth and twig dieback are seen at early stages of the disease. Later, one or more limbs may wilt and die back to the main trunk, and a brown to black streak of dead tissue may extend from one area of rotted roots to the damaged limb. Often, the root system will continue to disintegrate until the plant dies.

Holly Diseases & Insect Pests

That's why stuff that gets this rot look like they are starving for water. The root system is so compromised that it can't get a drink. I don't think Subdue is a restricted product, but you will have to go somewhere like Site One (what used to be John Deere landscapes) to get it. 


Fair article on the juniper twig blights

Sandy Feather: Fungicides needed to control juniper blight
 

 

Q. I have a planting of low-growing junipers on a steep bank next to my driveway. It appears that there are a lot of dead areas scattered over all of them, although I see foliage that looks healthy enough. Do you know what is happening to my junipers, and can you recommend a treatment to keep them from dying completely?

 

Phomopsis twig blight is primarily characterized by tip dieback. Older growth in toward the center of the plant is less likely to be affected. The dead twigs remain attached to the plant for months. On close examination, you should be able to see small dark spots at the juncture of dead tissue and healthy tissue. Use a magnifying glass or hand lens, if necessary. These pinpoint-sized spots are the fruiting bodies that produce spores that spread the disease to healthy plants. The causal organism, Phomopsis juniperovora, overwinters on dead twigs, and infects new growth as it begins in spring. It is spread by splashing or wind-driven rain. Only succulent new growth is highly susceptible.

 

You should also plan to make fungicide applications next spring as new growth starts. Again, you will need to make repeated applications, at intervals recommended on the label of the fungicide you choose, until the weather dries out or the new growth matures. Cleary's 3336 (thiophanate methyl) is labeled to control phomopsis twig blight.

 

Laboratory analysis is required to accurately distinguish the two diseases. It is very common for both phomopsis and kabatina to infect the same plant at the same time. In that case, a spray of thiophanate methyl and mancozeb is required to protect new growth. The two products can be mixed, according to label directions, in the same spray tank and applied in one spray, rather than making two separate applications. A product called Zyban (or Duosan -- different manufacturers, different trade names, same active ingredients) contains both fungicides, but that may be difficult for home gardeners to purchase. It is available to landscape professionals, and you may be able to hire a certified pesticide applicator to make the applications for you.

Unfortunately, these diseases require monitoring and possibly spraying every year. You control or manage plant diseases; only rarely can you "cure" them.

Edited April 21, 2019 by cactusflinthead

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Finally found one on take-all-root-rot

Take All Root Rot:TARR:Bermudagrass decline:the funk

aggy pdf: good list of chems with trade and chemical names
 

 

Initial symptoms aboveground are irregular, yellow (chlorotic) or light green patches ranging in diameter from a few inches to a few feet. Roots are initially thin and off-white in color with isolated black lesions. Eventually, roots become very short, black, and rotted. Stolons and rhizomes may have black lesions and, under severe disease conditions, begin to rot. Entire plants may die, resulting in irregular patches of thinning grass, and if the rot is not controlled, bare patches may develop (Figures 2). Under a microscope, black strands of fungi (runner hyphae) and special structures called hyphopodia are visible on the outside of the roots, stolons, and rhizomes (Figure 3).

Florida, also known as bermudagrass decline 

Bayer has their own pdf for the trade. If you haven't noticed this $#@! is happening down at the microscopic level. When we are seeing the damage on leaves and stems it has already progressed to the end stage. The stuff that survived in the middle either regrew some roots or has some resistance. One can hope it is resistance anyhow. Though there is little evidence to support the idea that St.A has any resistance.


This last one is from Alabama. I know I have quoted him before but it is buried in last year's thread probably. 
 

 

Control
St. Augustinegrass cultivars apparently have no
resistance to take-all root rot. In Alabama, lawns
and sod fields planted to the cultivars Common and
Raleigh have suffered heavy damage, while the cultivars
Floratam, FX-10, and Jade have been attacked by
the take-all root rot fungus in Florida. In California,
the take-all root rot fungus has been isolated from the
St. Augustinegrass cultivars DelMar, Jade, Dalsa 8401,
Mercedes, Bitterblue, Standard, California Common,
Sunclipse, Raleigh, Seville, and Floratam.
Management Practices. Specific control strategies
for take-all root rot have not been developed.
However, based on experience with other patch
diseases incited by G. graminis var. graminis, some
control recommendations are suggested. Turfgrass
management practices, not chemicals, offer the best
hope for controlling this disease.

That right $#@!ing there. We are shooting in the dark. Management practices? You have an intermittent stream flowing through the backyard. That might not be fixable. We can mitigate its damage, but how are we going to make the water stop flowing through? On my problem zoysia I have a big fat drain right in the middle of it so there is no alternative but to deal with the occasional flooding. I have four or five varieties of fungicides with differing modes of action in hopes that one or more will work. If you want to spend the extra money to send it to aggy the disease lab can confirm it. It runs about 55 for the analysis and however much it costs to Fedex it overnight. Getting a good sample is crucial. $#@!ty methodology equals no test because you $#@!ed up. Sorry try again. FUPM. 

You can rip it out , put in river rocks and make a dry creek bed! Put a neat little bridge across it with clangbangers in the wind! Whirligigs and yard art!
sorry, I had a phlegm moment

I still think it is a disease. Most likely TARR. I'd peat moss the good areas and start spraying the bad ones.

 

 Edit: The Alabama link is busted. The others still work. I think the guy from Bama was among the first to describe it as a disease. You gotta remember we have only been working on this as a known disease since around 1990. There were suspicions of it being a disease caused by a pathogen rather than abiotic conditions, but until 1990 it wasn't agreed upon. That's partly why there is no consensus on treatment, in addition to the fact that no one method or chemical or cultural approach works 100% of the time across cultivars and conditions. Peat moss might work great for one area and chemicals work better in another. It's a fucking crapshoot.

Edited April 21, 2019 by cactusflinthead

[cactusflinthead 27601]

thailey3 

dipshit          

Join Date

Dec 2013

Posts

63

 

I need some lawn care help. I believe that I’m fighting a fungal war in my St Augustine lawn for the last 4 years. Despite my best efforts, I haven’t been able to defeat it (or keep it well under control). I need a recommendation of what to do differently. If you can help me fix this… I will be forever grateful. 

The typical season goes like this - lots of gray leaf spot symptoms in the spring and early summer. During the heat of summer the fungal symptoms reduce and the lawn mostly fills in but some areas are still thin. The fall brings more fungal symptoms and then really thins out large areas of the lawn and then kills some spots bare. I believe it is some mix of Brown Patch and Take All Patch. Then I have to fight a lot of weeds in those areas (usually just by pulling manually) until I can get the St Augustine to grow again. Repeat next year. The symptoms are exactly outlined by the video on this page: http://www.realgreenlawns.com/austin...eyleafspot.htm. I had Real Green Lawns do a lawn assessment in spring of 2016. At the time, the lawn was thin and had quite a few bare spots damaged from the previous fall. The diagnosis was Take All Patch and the recommendation was to increase microbial activity and acidity in the soil.

The problem is, I’ve been doing what I believe are the standard curative and preventative measures, but I still can’t shake it. 
 

• I live in Cedar Park / North Austin
• My lawn is roughly 2500sqft
• My lawn was planted by the builder on top of sandy loam (to my detriment)
• I try not to water until the grass looks dry (blades curled/thin in the morning). During the summers, I try to only water once per week, but sometimes I only make it 5 days due to high heat.
• I only water in the early mornings a few hours before sunrise.
• I water roughly 1” with each application (previously measured in each zone)
• I started bagging the mowing clippings a couple years ago
• I stopped using major-brand fertilizers a few years ago and switched to using Milorganite (5-2-0) exclusively. http://www.milorganite.com/
• I stopped using major-brand fungicides 2 years ago (i.e. Scotts Lawn Fungus Control bag) and switched to using bulk cornmeal from Callahan's in 2016 for attempted prevention. I did this because the last time I researched Gray Leaf Spot, Brown Patch, and Take All Patch, the internet told me that applying chemical fungicides would kill all fungus, even the good kind of fungus that supposedly keeps the bad fungus in check. Cornmeal would supposedly promote the good fungus to keep the bad fungus suppressed.
• I started core aerating and then top dressing the last several years with Austin Soil Amendment from Whittlesey Landscape Supplies. The Austin Soil Amendment is 66% compost, 17% granite sand, 17% graphite sand. When I topdress, I also apply peat moss.

2016

• Core Aeration (done by me) - once in the spring and once in the fall
• Topdressing - 67% Compost / 33% sand mix - 1.5yds in spring, 1yd in fall (right after aerations)
• Milorganite - 36lbs for each application, 3 or 4 applications
• Cornmeal - 75lbs for each application, 3 or 4 applications
• Peat Moss -3 cuft in spring (right after aeration)

2017

• Core Aeration (done by me) - Apr 1. I went over the lawn 5 times.
• Topdressing (67% Compost / 33% sand mix) - 1.5yds on Apr 1
• Peat Moss - 4 cuft on Apr 1
• Milorganite - 36lbs on Apr 15, May 15
• Cornmeal - 75lbs on Apr 15, May 15

The lawn currently looks decent from afar, but looks are deceiving I know how this game goes. There are still abundant signs of fungal activity going on (all throughout the lawn, not just in the obviously thin/bare spots). I know we’ve been having some rainy days the last few weeks that may encourage this fungal activity more than usual, but this has been typical for the last several years, so I’m not willing to accept that this is just an anomaly. 

Any help is appreciated - I’m getting desperate. I’m close to calling Real Green Lawns back and just asking them to do whatever they thing is necessary for the rest of the year. This will hurt the wallet and the pride if I have to do so.

 

 

Last edited by thailey3; 06-04-2017 at 02:07 PM.

edit: @thailey does not appear to be on the surl

[cactusflinthead 27601]

pix from thailey3

Gray leaf spot

 

Here's another long epistle on this mess. Link to RealGreenLawns in it. 

The bama one is still busted. I'll see if i can figure out what they have for it now. 

Brown Patch

Rotted leaves and leaf sheaths
Unharmed roots and stolons

Take All

Undamaged leaves and leaf sheaths
Usually badly rotted roots and stolons, dark brown or black in color

Plant Care.com, how cute.

These guys copyright protected their page. A fairly decent description of the disease cycle. He maintains low nitrogen is a problem? Yeah, not so much buddy, might want to check that editing. Access to the nitrogen because the pH is too high? Yeah that I might believe. 


This pdf from bama ag extension is a good scholarly sort of discussion of Take All. 

Holy $#@! Bob Whitney has a blog! I know this guy. He's cool, even if he is aggy.
 

 

The fungi causing Take-All Root Rot initially attacks the root system of the affected turfgrass plants and eventually works its way into the stolons and crown (growing points) of the plant. Symptoms for this disease include: stems (stolons) that pull up from the ground easily, similar to grub damage, brown to black roots, and small dark spots on the stems. Unlike white grubworm damage where roots are cut off by insect chewing, the TARR disease causes roots to remain attached to stolons and become withered and brown.
Unlike Brown patch, the Take-All Root Rot fungi can commonly destroy large areas of turfgrass. Although this disease is primarily active when soil temperatures are cool, effects of the fungus activity can extend into the summer period where turf becomes yellow, thinned and weak growing during the hot periods of the year.

 

Cultural Controls: Aerate to prevent soil compaction problems. Avoid excess stimulation of excess top growth with too much nitrogen fertilizer. Water deeply and infrequently. Use herbicides carefully and sparingly. Provide for good drainage.
Topdressing with peat: For Take-All Root Rot Control, research at the Texas A&M Research Experiment Station in Dallas showed that topdressing at a rate of 1 bale (bag) of peat moss (approximately 3.8 cu. ft.) per 1000 sq. ft. of turf area was sufficient to protect turf for 2 years. The acidity in the peat moss (pH = 4.4) was shown to suppress the fungi causing the take-all root rot.
Fungicide Control: Take All Root Rot (timing of application critical) - Spectracide immunox (contains myclobutanil), Ferti-lome Systemic or Ortho Lawn Disease Control (contains propiconazole). Brown Patch - Turfcide (PCNB), Spectracide immunox, Ferti-lome Systemic or Ortho Lawn Disease Control (Propiconazole), Hi-Yield Maneb (Mancozeb), Green Light Broad Spectrum (Bayleton), Fung-Away
Product names and labels change constantly so be sure to follow all label directions and water in chemicals when label directs

And anonymous commenter from 2012 from this blog entry
 

 

Anonymous said...
I have used peat moss and also humo with poor results. if peat moss lowers the ph in the soil why not use something that is take directly in thru the leavs to the roots. i used green light soil acid and iron twice on my lawn last year and so far this year no sign of tarr, give it a try a lot cheaper than peat moss
April 15, 2012 at 12:43 PM

I tend to agree. If peat is not getting it, go with something more acidic. Sulfur is not going to hurt anybody with the alkaline soils that are common in many parts of Texas. 

And in the interest of equal time. Here's the Dirt Doctor.
 

 

Take-All Patch (Bermuda Decline)

A disease that can attack several species of grass. It is caused by the fungus Gaeumannomyces graminis var. graminis, and is mostly found in St. Augustinegrass but can also cause problems in Bermudagrass. It is most active during the fall, winter and spring especially during moist weather. 

The first symptom is often yellow leaves and dark roots. Area of discolored and dying leaves will be circular to irregular in shape and up to 20 feet in diameter and thinning occurs. Unlike brown patch, the leaves of take-all infected plants do not easily separate from the plant when pulled. Stolons will often have discolored areas with brown to black roots. 

Regrowth of the grass into the affected area is often slow and unsuccessful because the new growth becomes infected. Controlling take-all patch is said to be difficult but isn’t with organic techniques. Good surface and subsurface drainage is important. Cut back on watering and fertilizing. Use only organic fertilizers. If soil compaction exists, aeration will help to alleviate this condition and allow the grass to establish a deeper, more vigorous root system.

Prevent Take All Patch by maintaining healthy soil. Control the active disease by aeration, cornmeal and compost and the Basic Organic Program.

Sorry, the TL DR version is not much more than, "Start flinging chemicals or start an organic program. Don't water too much, put more manganese out, add some acidic stuff, compost, peat moss, poke holes in the dirt, roll the bones and see what works." 

I still like Dr. McAfee's flier the best.

 

 

 

edit: disregard corn meal as a fungicide

 

Brown Patch

Rotted leaves and leaf sheaths
Unharmed roots and stolons

Take All

Undamaged leaves and leaf sheaths
Usually badly rotted roots and stolons, dark brown or black in color

Plant Care.com, how cute.

These guys copyright protected their page. A fairly decent description of the disease cycle. He maintains low nitrogen is a problem? Yeah, not so much buddy, might want to check that editing. Access to the nitrogen because the pH is too high? Yeah that I might believe. 


This pdf from bama ag extension is a good scholarly sort of discussion of Take All. 

Holy $#@! Bob Whitney has a blog! I know this guy. He's cool, even if he is aggy.
 

 

The fungi causing Take-All Root Rot initially attacks the root system of the affected turfgrass plants and eventually works its way into the stolons and crown (growing points) of the plant. Symptoms for this disease include: stems (stolons) that pull up from the ground easily, similar to grub damage, brown to black roots, and small dark spots on the stems. Unlike white grubworm damage where roots are cut off by insect chewing, the TARR disease causes roots to remain attached to stolons and become withered and brown.
Unlike Brown patch, the Take-All Root Rot fungi can commonly destroy large areas of turfgrass. Although this disease is primarily active when soil temperatures are cool, effects of the fungus activity can extend into the summer period where turf becomes yellow, thinned and weak growing during the hot periods of the year.

 

Cultural Controls: Aerate to prevent soil compaction problems. Avoid excess stimulation of excess top growth with too much nitrogen fertilizer. Water deeply and infrequently. Use herbicides carefully and sparingly. Provide for good drainage.
Topdressing with peat: For Take-All Root Rot Control, research at the Texas A&M Research Experiment Station in Dallas showed that topdressing at a rate of 1 bale (bag) of peat moss (approximately 3.8 cu. ft.) per 1000 sq. ft. of turf area was sufficient to protect turf for 2 years. The acidity in the peat moss (pH = 4.4) was shown to suppress the fungi causing the take-all root rot.
Fungicide Control: Take All Root Rot (timing of application critical) - Spectracide immunox (contains myclobutanil), Ferti-lome Systemic or Ortho Lawn Disease Control (contains propiconazole). Brown Patch - Turfcide (PCNB), Spectracide immunox, Ferti-lome Systemic or Ortho Lawn Disease Control (Propiconazole), Hi-Yield Maneb (Mancozeb), Green Light Broad Spectrum (Bayleton), Fung-Away
Product names and labels change constantly so be sure to follow all label directions and water in chemicals when label directs

And anonymous commenter from 2012 from this blog entry
 

 

Anonymous said...
I have used peat moss and also humo with poor results. if peat moss lowers the ph in the soil why not use something that is take directly in thru the leavs to the roots. i used green light soil acid and iron twice on my lawn last year and so far this year no sign of tarr, give it a try a lot cheaper than peat moss
April 15, 2012 at 12:43 PM

I tend to agree. If peat is not getting it, go with something more acidic. Sulfur is not going to hurt anybody with the alkaline soils that are common in many parts of Texas. 

And in the interest of equal time. Here's the Dirt Doctor.
 

 

Take-All Patch (Bermuda Decline)

A disease that can attack several species of grass. It is caused by the fungus Gaeumannomyces graminis var. graminis, and is mostly found in St. Augustinegrass but can also cause problems in Bermudagrass. It is most active during the fall, winter and spring especially during moist weather. 

The first symptom is often yellow leaves and dark roots. Area of discolored and dying leaves will be circular to irregular in shape and up to 20 feet in diameter and thinning occurs. Unlike brown patch, the leaves of take-all infected plants do not easily separate from the plant when pulled. Stolons will often have discolored areas with brown to black roots. 

Regrowth of the grass into the affected area is often slow and unsuccessful because the new growth becomes infected. Controlling take-all patch is said to be difficult but isn’t with organic techniques. Good surface and subsurface drainage is important. Cut back on watering and fertilizing. Use only organic fertilizers. If soil compaction exists, aeration will help to alleviate this condition and allow the grass to establish a deeper, more vigorous root system.

Prevent Take All Patch by maintaining healthy soil. Control the active disease by aeration, cornmeal and compost and the Basic Organic Program.

Sorry, the TL DR version is not much more than, "Start flinging chemicals or start an organic program. Don't water too much, put more manganese out, add some acidic stuff, compost, peat moss, poke holes in the dirt, roll the bones and see what works." 

I still like Dr. McAfee's flier the best.

 

edit2: The links are getting more haphazard. Dr. Whitney's blog has gone to limited access since 2015. The bama pdf doesn't exist and Dr. McAfee has long since retired. 

left us to muddle through on our own, bastards. I envy them.

 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

Every time. I haven't been able to post a semi-coherent response to the disease questions above the Mendoza line.

I had to distill phytopthora to a singe page using small words for a person that made decisions about azaleas at a certain park in Dallas near a creek with turtles. The simple answer to disease maintenance is to do SOMETHING and keep doing it.

Cultural practices matter. Water less or more effectively is probably a better way of putting it. It's not a bad thing to let it get a little thirsty. Then water it deeply. If you have problem areas that start to run off quickly then split the times. Or be creative about watering. If it's most effective to supplement some areas with old school water hose and soaker head to get one spot done, well you've seen the kid syringing a green? Letting the yard dry out is the same concept as airing out a damp place to keep the mildew down. The pathogen in phytopthora is kinda somewhat kin to algae. These are not complex life forms. 

The more complex ones like trees are even more difficult to save if they are showing symptoms. If you have oak wilt symptoms it's already too late. Decline is even harder to diagnose. Why are there branches dying? Why is this tree getting actinopelte/tubakia and this one is clean as a whistle? Why did the shelf mushroom pick this one? Armillaria on this one? Welp, see ya later, in a few years maybe. Slime flux, gummosis, verticilium gad the list goes on forever. 

shit happens and life goes on. Sometimes we say fuck it and plant something else there and sometimes we spend thousands of dollars putting in an air system to pull fresh air into a green and spray it on a regular schedule. Sometimes a prof comes along and asks us if we want to try this other practice so he gets a plot of stuff and lo and behold it worked well here and sucked over there. Guess we'll try peat moss too. 

 

There. That'll do for now. 

[swraith 347]

Wanted to put down an application of lawn fertilizer this past weekend. All the stores around me were sold out of milorganite. So I went with a liquid application of Hasta Gro Lawn by Medina. Never used it before. I am interested to see how it goes.

[krevo 142]

On 4/15/2019 at 2:20 PM, LebongJames said:

If I put a pre emergent and fertilizer down 2 weeks ago on Bermuda (second round of pre emergent) can I put down a top soil on the yard.

The yard is very uneven and the Bermuda has never grown in very thick in certain areas.

 

About to be second summer in new build/sod.

Let me make you a recommendation.  Use top soil or compost and add in about 30-40% sand.  Golf courses use sand to level and I've had much better results with it than I have with just top soil.  Some places in central Texas call it Pond Sand, which is finer and dirtier than play sand.    

I use a mixture of compost and sand probably 10 times a season in areas where my bermuda isn't as flat as I'd like it (runoff, gutter spouts, etc) and I just put it down as evenly as possible and use my sand leveler and a push broom to get it below the turf and fill in.   

[krevo 142]

On 4/22/2019 at 8:04 AM, swraith said:

Wanted to put down an application of lawn fertilizer this past weekend. All the stores around me were sold out of milorganite. So I went with a liquid application of Hasta Gro Lawn by Medina. Never used it before. I am interested to see how it goes.

HD in the Centex area is now carrying Hou-actinite.  Houston's version of Milo.  Its 6-3-0 + 1 iron so it's the same stuff and it comes in a 50lb bag for the same price.  I've been using it now since last summer and it works great.  

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hou-Actinite-50-lbs-Recycled-Fertilizer-6-3-1-100537721/306913963

Edited April 25, 2019 by krevo

[krevo 142]

Also - I'd like to give a shoutout to Cactus Flinthead.   What a great fuckin' guy to provide the level of detail he does in these threads.  +rep bro

[cactusflinthead 27601]

If y'all don't start the veggie garden thread pretty soon it's gonna be summer. 

[texasdago 7575]

On 4/22/2019 at 8:04 AM, swraith said:

Wanted to put down an application of lawn fertilizer this past weekend. All the stores around me were sold out of milorganite. So I went with a liquid application of Hasta Gro Lawn by Medina. Never used it before. I am interested to see how it goes.

I use it occasionally... to me, its a great supplement but probably not the main fertilizer to use on a lawn.  I also use Hasta Grow for plants.  Good stuff.

I need to go track down some azomite and apply it this weekend.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

Is this friggin brown patch?

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

F-ing poa annua.  Anything to treat it with?  Will it just take hotter temps? Frustrated here.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

On 4/26/2019 at 7:09 PM, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Is this friggin brown patch?

Take all. I bet if you go look up close you can find the marks. In either case (Brown patch or TARR) T-Methyl (shorthand for thiophanate-methyl, Cleary's 3336F is my version and hereafter shortened to t-methyl) l is where I would start. If you have some stuff leftover from previous adventures it might be of use. There are others that have shown effectiveness.

I'm also becoming a fan of applying some sort of rooting hormone solution to give it the full impetus to grow new roots. That's what's essentially happening with a root rot when we see the symptoms of drought or nutritional problems. It's lost the capacity to draw water or nutrients due to a compromised root system. Brown patch is rotting above the soil surface primarily where the sheath meets the stem. It's more topical than systemic. Take-all enters at the root level and moves upward into the plant. Note that where you have problems is around the drain system, where it is going to stay wet the longest. Disease issues happen most often and are more prone to occur in damp, often wet areas. Sometimes we can't fix that problem because no matter what else happens the water is going to run that way. The drains are a good idea. They are necessary. But, it also means the soil surrounding them is going to stay wetter longer than anywhere else in the yard which makes it prone to disease in turf.

[mdleast 8295]

Can someone identify this plant? It was planted by the prior owners of our house and only in certain spots. I recently redid the landscaping and had though I had removed of all it but it’s popping up in multiple places. Now I’m trying to decide if I will try again to remove it or, perhaps, just planting more of it to fill in the missing spots.

[swraith 347]

Guessing a type of oxalis like oxalis triangularis or oxalis regnellii.

[solamente73 1132]

On 4/21/2019 at 12:33 PM, cactusflinthead said:

I'm looking for some of the things I left at the old place. The hardiness map was too cool to leave behind. It's Gardening 101, but I like it. There are a few things like this one from @solamente73 that I wonder if they made it. Also @phdhorn and his oleanders. 

Sorry it took so long to reply; I was traveling and wanted to post with a pic taken after I got home.

Yup, it survived and continues to kick ass.  All we did was cut off all the dead fronds and it did the rest.  As you can see below, this year’s winter got it a bit, but it’s doing well.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

2 hours ago, solamente73 said:

Sorry it took so long to reply; I was traveling and wanted to post with a pic taken after I got home.

Yup, it survived and continues to kick ass.  All we did was cut off all the dead fronds and it did the rest.  As you can see below, this year’s winter got it a bit, but it’s doing well.

One of the folks I still do work for on the side has a pair of sagos. Up here in DFW it's a dice roll every year. They are in some big assed pots that I have to dolly up to the porch. A few years ago he bought some covers. They're like big circular outdoor tablecloths with a cinch string. This year I packed the fronds and pots with hay and then folded them upwards like a big cigar. Packed more hay around that and put the covers over the whole mess. I might have trimmed out a half dozen burnt leaves. 

[cactusflinthead 27601]

On 4/29/2019 at 7:51 PM, swraith said:

Guessing a type of oxalis like oxalis triangularis or oxalis regnellii.

Correcto. +1

[cactusflinthead 27601]

On 4/26/2019 at 10:46 PM, Texas St. Armadillos said:

F-ing poa annua.  Anything to treat it with?  Will it just take hotter temps? Frustrated here.

Been a bad year for poa. Certainty is my go to for poa. It's pricey, but it's my favorite for nutgrass fam and poa. Unlike sedgehammer it will get the kyllinga.

Edited May 1, 2019 by cactusflinthead
Stupid effin autocorrect

[swraith 347]

Any ideas on where in Austin I could find a general 15-15-15 or 13-13-13 granular fertilizer for fruit trees? I am not seeing anything at Lowe’s/Home Depot on their websites. Tractor supply seems to have some but nothing is showing in stock on their website for the Cedar Park store.

[texas08 1599]

Necro bump!  The arborist identified this as a "Maverick Mesquite," which apparently is a specially bred variation of Mesquite that is thornless.  Cool fact: you can't grow them from seed, they have to be propagated vegetatively to retain the thornless feature.

Need this mesquite, NOW!

Beautiful.

[cactusflinthead 27601]

2 hours ago, swraith said:

Any ideas on where in Austin I could find a general 15-15-15 or 13-13-13 granular fertilizer for fruit trees? I am not seeing anything at Lowe’s/Home Depot on their websites. Tractor supply seems to have some but nothing is showing in stock on their website for the Cedar Park store.

Site One.