Mineral interest question

[Jerry Callo 8703]

My sister and I were contacted, out of the blue, about having claim to a share of a mineral interest owned by our great grandfather in Winkler County, Texas.  I know my GGF was in the oil business and a quick check of filings in the Winkler County official records shows that he traded mineral interests in several tracts of land.  There is apparently a petition filed Winkler County where the Plaintiff claim to have made a diligent effort to locate the Defendants (mineral interest owners) and a receiver has been appointed.

A company out of Midland is offering to pay for our shares of our GGF's mineral interest (.000305176 net mineral acres each).  The interest is clearly worth more than they are offering for it, but I have no idea how much.  I can sign and agreement and get paid something or potentially make and appearance in the case and try to negotiate with the Plaintiff.  Just trying to determine if it is worth my time.  

[El Diablo 4232]

I think we all know the answer.

tree fiddy

[RPM 26321]

I get lowball offers for my mineral rights all the time. Tear them up and throw them in the trash. Do the research and see exactly how much acreage you have. Who has been paying the taxes? How much is owed in tax if it hasn't been paid? Is it under lease? Lots of questions.

[IDIOTsavant 8483]

54 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

My sister and I were contacted, out of the blue, about having claim to a share of a mineral interest owned by our great grandfather in Winkler County, Texas.  I know my GGF was in the oil business and a quick check of filings in the Winkler County official records shows that he traded mineral interests in several tracts of land.  There is apparently a petition filed Winkler County where the Plaintiff claim to have made a diligent effort to locate the Defendants (mineral interest owners) and a receiver has been appointed.

A company out of Midland is offering to pay for our shares of our GGF's mineral interest (.000305176 net mineral acres each).  The interest is clearly worth more than they are offering for it, but I have no idea how much.  I can sign and agreement and get paid something or potentially make and appearance in the case and try to negotiate with the Plaintiff.  Just trying to determine if it is worth my time.  

Just ask the company in Midland to verify how they came to this mineral interest with documentation if possible. The receivership is just a court appointed officer who negotiates on behalf of the absent mineral owners. They usually get a very good price and terms to lease as they're familiar with business in the area. The money is then held in trust until the heirs come forward to claim their share. Just take the documentation from the company out of Midland to the company that is issued the lease from the court appointee (probably will be the same company honestly), sign a division order, and start cashing checks.

[torre 1286]

3 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

 There is apparently a petition filed Winkler County where the Plaintiff claim to have made a diligent effort to locate the Defendants (mineral interest owners) and a receiver has been appointed.

  I can sign and agreement and get paid something or potentially make and appearance in the case and try to negotiate with the Plaintiff.  Just trying to determine if it is worth my time.  

Not sure of details,  but it seems you should be entitled to payment for past  mineral rights as well as future.

Definitely worth your time.   Unless you need cash,  would recommend not selling mineral rights in the Permian Basin.

[Dr Fear 1268]

3 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

A company out of Midland is offering to pay for our shares of our GGF's mineral interest (.000305176 net mineral acres each). The interest is clearly worth more than they are offering for it, but I have no idea how much.  I can sign and agreement and get paid something or potentially make and appearance in the case and try to negotiate with the Plaintiff.  Just trying to determine if it is worth my time.  

You sure about that amount?  At $25,000 an acre to lease that is about $7.26 in bonus each.

[Jerry Callo 8703]

6 minutes ago, Dr Fear said:

You sure about that amount?  At $25,000 an acre to lease that is about $7.26 in bonus each.

I'm not sure one way or the other.  That figure came from the Midland company's purchase offer with the caveat "if it is determined, after the examination of title, that the quantum of interest owned is greater than or less than .000305176 net mineral acres, then this offer shall be proportionately increased or decreased, depending on the circumstance."

As suggested above, I'm going to contact the Midland company and see if they will provide additional documentation.  Otherwise, I'll contact the receiver.  Unfortunately, Winkler County doesn't keep much by way of records, judicial or otherwise, online.

 

 

[IDIOTsavant 8483]

19 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

I'm not sure one way or the other.  That figure came from the Midland company's purchase offer with the caveat "if it is determined, after the examination of title, that the quantum of interest owned is greater than or less than .000305176 net mineral acres, then this offer shall be proportionately increased or decreased, depending on the circumstance."

As suggested above, I'm going to contact the Midland company and see if they will provide additional documentation.  Otherwise, I'll contact the receiver.  Unfortunately, Winkler County doesn't keep much by way of records, judicial or otherwise, online.

 

 

If you have a buddy who is a field landman, ask him to use his Texas file account. They should have most records back to 1900 for Winkler. He'd also be able to explain a lot of what you're seeing. I'm in-house now, so I use our corporate account and can't share access. I'd love to help out, but the Permian is booming right now. I don't have the time unfortunately. If you don't have a buddy in the land business, google your local landman association and go up to a happy hour. Buy a couple of drinks, and somebody will most likely help you out.

[Jerry Callo 8703]

Thanks for the information.  I'm able to pull up the grantor/grantee index for Winkler County and have found the property in question which at the time was 100 acres, however its not imaged.  I don't see any conveyances of that particular interest after he was granted it in 1927.  Midland guy is supposed to send me a copy of the petition.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

Bump. What is a consideration payment and ratification request. Is that when someone is looking to drill on your mineral rights and they want or need your permission? If so, is this negotiable when you have a relatively small percentage? 

[Storm the Field 5294]

19 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bump. What is a consideration payment and ratification request. Is that when someone is looking to drill on your mineral rights and they want or need your permission? If so, is this negotiable when you have a relatively small percentage? 

Let me guess. A landman contacted you to ask you to ratify an oil and gas lease "so you can get paid" and they're offering some small $ figure to sign it. If you ask why he needs a ratification, he'll probably hem and haw and act like they don't REALLY need to and it's just a formality, yada yada yada. Sound about right?

If he's asking for a ratification, most likely he's doing curative work for a title opinion that has identified an issue with a lease. Either they're concerned it (i) wasn't executed by all of the necessary parties, or (ii) may have expired due to a lapse in production or some other issue. As a basic example, I often see leases that are executed by someone that only owns a life estate mineral interest. A lease like that needs to be ratified by the remaindermen (i.e. people who the interest passes to upon the death of the life tenant).

Also possible that you own a non-participating royalty interest in a drillsite tract, which is a whole 'nother issue.

You may have more leverage than you think. Don't sign anything without due diligence. If you have any buddies that do land work or know any O&G attorneys, run it by them first and see what they think.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Storm the Field

[elfenix 34242]

the answer is always duhig exception. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

1 hour ago, Storm the Field said:

Let me guess. A landman contacted you to ask you to ratify an oil and gas lease "so you can get paid" and they're offering some small $ figure to sign it. If you ask why he needs a ratification, he'll probably hem and haw and act like they don't REALLY need to and it's just a formality, yada yada yada. Sound about right?

If he's asking for a ratification, most likely he's doing curative work for a title opinion that has identified an issue with a lease. Either they're concerned it (i) wasn't executed by all of the necessary parties, or (ii) may have expired due to a lapse in production or some other issue. As a basic example, I often see leases that are executed by someone that only owns a life estate mineral interest. A lease like that needs to be ratified by the remaindermen (i.e. people who the interest passes to upon the death of the life tenant).

Also possible that you own a non-participating royalty interest in a drillsite tract, which is a whole 'nother issue.

You may have more leverage than you think. Don't sign anything without due diligence. If you have any buddies that do land work or know any O&G attorneys, run it by them first and see what they think.

this is a drilling/production company that we’ve worked with for a decade or two. I gather that this another lease (managed by another company) that somehow allowed their lease to lapse and the company that I’m dealing with wants to take it over. Apparently I somehow have an interest in that lease. They sending over this consideration payment and paperwork to sign.  They also seemed motivated for us to sign ASAP.

the consideration payment is an amount worth picking up off the floor but its far away from life changing.

To be clear, I don’t want to spend large amounts of time and effort to earn a few extra dollars. But I also don’t want to leave $20K out of the deal.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Storm the Field 5294]

Based on what I can gather from this reply, and without the benefit of seeing any of the materials, it sounds to me like you own an interest in the adjacent tract and the company you're dealing with wants to revive an old lease with more favorable terms rather than sign you to a new lease and have to pay lease bonus and give you a higher royalty than the existing lease. Also, if you do own an interest in this other tract and haven't been paid royalties, you might have some funds held up in suspense. 

Anyways, get a hold of an attorney to at least get a consultation to see if it's worth it. Let's say for fun that there is actually $20K at stake. It's probably worth the $1500 or so it would cost for an attorney to take care of it. If it's $2K  at stake, then we'll to you to sign it and cash the check. Send me a private message if you want and I can point you in the right direction.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Storm the Field

[RPM 26321]

O&G leases can be tricky without knowing all the whatnots involved. My Dad got suckered into a deal that looked pretty sweet at the time. Land was leased to a company and the lease was about to expire. They came in with a decent bonus to extend it 6 months. If they are paying a bonus for a 6 month extension they must be about to drill, right? They did, but on adjacent property and threw us into a pool. That dinky well produced about 10 barrels a month for 20 years before it finally was shut in.

[Hook1997 5354]

8 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bump. What is a consideration payment and ratification request. Is that when someone is looking to drill on your mineral rights and they want or need your permission? If so, is this negotiable when you have a relatively small percentage? 

It’s most likely that you own a non participating royalty on the property and they are doing due diligence on and it is nothing big and they don’t really need it ultimately if it’s a lease you never signed.  Easy way to find out is just ask to see the terms of the old lease and the new terms. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Hook1997

[Storm the Field 5294]

11 minutes ago, Hook1997 said:

It’s most likely that you own a non participating royalty on the property and they are doing due diligence on and it is nothing big and they don’t really need it ultimately if it’s a lease you never signed.  Easy way to find out is just ask to see the terms of the old lease and the new terms. 

I mean, if it's simply an NPRI issue and the tract isn't in the wellbore path, then yeah, not really a big deal and the ask for a ratification is essentially a courtesy. If he's a non-ratified NPRI on a drillsite tract, then we're talking 'bout a whole different ballgame.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Storm the Field

[Storm the Field 5294]

1 hour ago, RPM said:

O&G leases can be tricky without knowing all the whatnots involved. My Dad got suckered into a deal that looked pretty sweet at the time. Land was leased to a company and the lease was about to expire. They came in with a decent bonus to extend it 6 months. If they are paying a bonus for a 6 month extension they must be about to drill, right? They did, but on adjacent property and threw us into a pool. That dinky well produced about 10 barrels a month for 20 years before it finally was shut in.

Highly likely your Dad's tract was going to get pooled regardless, unless you owned enough acreage to merit drilling a lease well, which seems unlikely based on your post.  And if the well drilled on an adjacent tract barely produced enough to maintain the lease, odds are it wouldn't have done much better if they moved the wellbore a few hundred feet over on your side of the lease line.

The "upside" of not signing a lease extension in that scenario would be they drill the well anyway and carry your unleased interest through payout, which seems likely to have taken forever, if at all, at that rate of production  In other words, at least he got a lease extension bonus vs. jack fucking shit.

 

[Blotto 23512]

My old man had a share of land in New Mexico that has been leased off and on for O&G production since the 70's or earlier. My father passed away years ago, and the land was passed into a family trust in my mothers name. I never paid much attention to it, because none of the land was in my name and checks just got sent to her. I know that at times there was a per acre fee + royalties, and at various times in the past checks would come in for maybe $500-$1000 per month. I dont think that has been the case for a few years.

My mom passed a few months ago, and my sister and I are trying to tie up loose ends with her estate. The other shares were owned by some of my dads relatives who have also passed away over the years, and we dont really stay in touch with some of those folks, so i have no idea who else owns shares in the land.  In my mom's final years, she wasnt really with it enough to keep up with any of this shit, so if anyone tried to contact her about this stuff, who knows how that would have gone. My sister looked after her finances, but never spoke to anyone. 

The land is in Lea County NM and I have some agreements, check stubs, correspondence showing multiple companies that have leased the land in the past. I have no idea if the land is currently in production or even under lease. I found the  website landgate.com , but fuck if I can find out much. In all of the documentation, the property is described as "section "X" in Township "Y", Lea County. But the search function on landgate doesnt like any of the various combinations I try. 

Anyone know if there is a better site than Landgate, or is this the type of inquiry only landmen with access to data feeds can easily navigate? My guess is that the well was  plugged and there isnt much going on, but i want to make sure some of the others with a share of the property havent somehow been collecting. I also see where there are some "solar leases" in that part of NM, so maybe there is potential there. 

Anybody on this site still in the landman game or have any idea on the best way to proceed? 

 

[elfenix 34242]

the answer is always duhig exception. always.

[Blotto 23512]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

the answer is always duhig exception. always.

Yeah .....I don't know what that means, but I did find the property on Landgate.com. If Landgate is to be believed, all wells are abandoned but there are producing wells immediately north. not sure I would trust that, but at least I  know where the shit is. Now I just have to figure out if its under lease, by whom, etc... 

[tx 3 putt 76958]

On 10/1/2018 at 11:38 AM, El Diablo said:

I think we all know the answer.

 

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tree fiddy

 

 

 

Spoiler

Pics of the sister 

 

[Dr Fear 1268]

Yeah .....I don't know what that means, but I did find the property on Landgate.com. If Landgate is to be believed, all wells are abandoned but there are producing wells immediately north. not sure I would trust that, but at least I  know where the shit is. Now I just have to figure out if its under lease, by whom, etc... 

You should be looking on the NMOCD GIS map, reasonably easy to use. PM me if you need help, I'm very familiar with NM O&G. All the well spacing is on there, it will show what tracts are included.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2732]

tons of activity in Lea so it is worth checking out for sure.  

[Storm the Field 5294]

9 hours ago, Dr Fear said:

10 hours ago, Blotto said:

Yeah .....I don't know what that means, but I did find the property on Landgate.com. If Landgate is to be believed, all wells are abandoned but there are producing wells immediately north. not sure I would trust that, but at least I  know where the shit is. Now I just have to figure out if its under lease, by whom, etc... 

You should be looking on the NMOCD GIS map, reasonably easy to use. PM me if you need help, I'm very familiar with NM O&G. All the well spacing is on there, it will show what tracts are included.

Was coming here to say the exact same thing. 

https://ocd-hub-nm-emnrd.hub.arcgis.com/