Finally: Wheel of Time being made by Amazon and Sony

[UTGrad98 2271]

Loved episode 7. The first scene was top notch. So far episodes 4 and 7 stand above the rest. I never cared much for how he wrote all of the relationships in the books and frankly don't care who ends up with who or when. As long as the main story arc stays in tact this show will be good. And it looks like it will. 

[CooterBrown 18007]

You sure you haven’t read the books lol, next you’ll tell me Perrin is whiny and I’ll know you’re lying.

I seriously never heard of the books.

Rand in the show reminds me of Anakin Skywalker. I keep expecting him to whine about sand.

The Wisdom is just a contrarian for the sake of arguing.

If they’re worse in the books, I can’t imagine slugging through multiple books with them as characters.

[Buzzrock 14918]

I thought the pregnant John Wick scene was so ridiculous that I turned it off and decided I was done with the show.

But who am I kidding I’ll probably come back when I’m caught up on other stuff.

[immortal13 4059]

3 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

I thought the pregnant John Wick scene was so ridiculous that I turned it off and decided I was done with the show.

But who am I kidding I’ll probably come back when I’m caught up on other stuff.

Really? I thought that was the best scene of the best episode so far in my opinion, but I'm trying hard to like this show. It's too bad HBO didn't get the rights to this instead

Edited December 20, 2021 by immortal13

[Horn of Gabriel 1614]

On 12/17/2021 at 9:41 PM, bolverk said:

Also feel like it's finally beginning to hit its stride - especially agree about that first scene with the pregnant Aes Sedai kicking ass.

Not a bookfag but I don't think she was Aes Sedai, I think she was the redheaded warrior race they referred to in an earlier episode when the skeleton was in the cage.

[NWBuck 8552]

27 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Not a bookfag but I don't think she was Aes Sedai, I think she was the redheaded warrior race they referred to in an earlier episode when the skeleton was in the cage.

Aiel. And yup. <bookfag adjacent>

 

On 12/18/2021 at 8:33 AM, CooterBrown said:

The Wisdom is just a contrarian for the sake of arguing.

While I liked Jordan working to make female characters more prominent and powerful, I hated the fact that he did so by creating this "men are dumb and need to be guided" narrative that the Wisdom's personally is built upon. Not only is it a unfortunately single noted solo, it's discordant in the way that you're picking up on. 

[Jeffrey 90]

As a bookfag I'll keep watching, but it's really bad overall with a few bright spots.

Loial is particularly bad, both in character design and acting. Just terrible.



Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[MillerEP 30455]

23 minutes ago, Jeffrey said:

As a bookfag I'll keep watching, but it's really bad overall with a few bright spots.

Loial is particularly bad, both in character design and acting. Just terrible.



Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

I feel much the same way, the only thing I disagree with in your assessment is the actor's portrayal of Loial. The design is bad, but the actor plays him perfectly. He's supposed to be a slow talker and very aloof. If you listen to audiobooks, he sounds just like him.

Edited December 21, 2021 by MillerEP

[rage-a-holic 4384]

1 hour ago, Jeffrey said:

As a bookfag I'll keep watching, but it's really bad overall with a few bright spots.

Loial is particularly bad, both in character design and acting. Just terrible.
 

I don't understand this, or any of the other apologist praise around here.

This show is pure unadulterated dogshit. Everything. Casting, acting, writing, production. Zero redeeming values.

That piece of shit woke, no-talent fuckhead producer/writer Rafe needs to be dropped in a vat of boiling acid.

As I predicted, it's been turned into a fucking CW teen drama with magic and super extra diversity.

[bolverk 29671]

20 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

I don't understand this, or any of the other apologist praise around here.

This show is pure unadulterated dogshit. Everything. Casting, acting, writing, production. Zero redeeming values.

That piece of shit woke, no-talent fuckhead producer/writer Rafe needs to be dropped in a vat of boiling acid.

As I predicted, it's been turned into a fucking CW teen drama with magic and super extra diversity.

Wow. Agreed that it's not a great show, but I guess we all now know the story behind your username: you hate seeing people of color on your TV screen.

[Jeffrey 90]

I feel much the same way, the only thing I disagree with in your assessment is the actor's portrayal of Loial. The design is bad, but the actor plays him perfectly. He's supposed to be a slow talker and very aloof. If you listen to audiobooks, he sounds just like him.

I get what you're saying as I'm listening to book 2 again now. Just don't think the actor has the skillset to portray the gravitas and regalness.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[Chewbacca 7776]

Just now, Jeffrey said:

I get what you're saying as I'm listening to book 2 again now. Just don't think the actor has the skillset to portray the gravitas and regalness.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

I think Loial's gravitas was slowly built up.  He was a kid hiding from his mother and an arranged marriage when we first met him even though he was older than Rand, et al.

[rage-a-holic 4384]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

Wow. Agreed that it's not a great show, but I guess we all now know the story behind your username: you hate seeing people of color on your TV screen.

And you're a fucking idiot.

The producer/writer intentionally made script/casting "interpretations" based on his personal beliefs. Not exactly a big secret. There are tons of reddit threads about it.

He even made a joke tweet that he would turn two of the male characters gay if people don't stop complaining about his stupid script/casting decisions.

[bolverk 29671]

38 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

And you're a fucking idiot.

The producer/writer intentionally made script/casting "interpretations" based on his personal beliefs. Not exactly a big secret. There are tons of reddit threads about it.

He even made a joke tweet that he would turn two of the male characters gay if people don't stop complaining about his stupid script/casting decisions.

One reddit thread led me to this paragraph from the book:

Elaida had put down her knitting, Rand realized, and was studying him. She rose from her stool and slowly came down from the dais to stand before him. “From the Two Rivers?” she said. She reached a hand toward his head; he pulled away from her touch, and she let her hand drop. “With that red in his hair, and gray eyes? Two Rivers people are dark of hair and eye, and they seldom have such height.” Her hand darted out to push back his coat sleeve, exposing lighter skin the sun had not reached so often. “Or such skin.”

Apparently, the book gives no indication that the people from the Two Rivers have to be white. And, given that Rand does stand out because he has lighter skin just goes to show that. Besides, it's such a stupid thing to be pissed about. The show has enough other problems for you to focus on aside from the actors' skin tones.

You might also keep in mind this (and all other shows) are playing to/made for an international audience, and people like to see people who look like them in their movies. Your raging rant about race is a case in point. Get over it.

Focus instead on the stilted acting, the bad editing, and the poor writing. Hell, I'm wondering how they spent so much fucking money on sets and special effects that don't look all that good.

[atomheartbevo 89656]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Focus instead on the stilted acting, the bad editing, and the poor writing. Hell, I'm wondering how they spent so much fucking money on sets and special effects that don't look all that good.

I'd like to see it with whatever filters they have on the camera or have used in post taken off.  

I think there is a chance it will improve next season -  I've noticed this weird trend of fantasy/sci-fi TV shows lately seeming to stumble in their first season, some personnel and other changes are made, feedback received, and they improve. It's just....odd.  I'm not expecting a Battlestar Galactica 2004 out of the gate, but it's just weird, like too many crews/productions are getting over-extended or something, and have a rough start and then settle in.

As for where the money went, they built a shit-ton of sets/props/etc. that are also going to be used next season and the season after - basically they didn't skimp on the sets/locations for the first season.  I've seen them say it'll save them money and time down the road.

[bolverk 29671]

10 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I'd like to see it with whatever filters they have on the camera or have used in post taken off.  

I think there is a chance it will improve next season -  I've noticed this weird trend of fantasy/sci-fi TV shows lately seeming to stumble in their first season, some personnel and other changes are made, feedback received, and they improve. It's just....odd.  I'm not expecting a Battlestar Galactica 2004 out of the gate, but it's just weird, like too many crews/productions are getting over-extended or something, and have a rough start and then settle in.

As for where the money went, they built a shit-ton of sets/props/etc. that are also going to be used next season and the season after - basically they didn't skimp on the sets/locations for the first season.  I've seen them say it'll save them money and time down the road.

I'm not going to give up on it by any means and am hoping it improves. Second season of Witcher felt much stronger than the first for example. Your comment about the sets/props being built before needed or reused makes sense.

[Post Oak 20213]

I'm riding it out. It's not great but I'm committed.  I'm watching The Witcher, which I assume was made for much less money, and the production, cinematography and acting is far superior.

 

 

[Bojack 2080]

Never mind.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Bojack

[Hermanator 7039]

Wish I had seen this thread before trying to watch the first couple of episodes of this without knowing anything about it. From the very first post 3 years ago 

Quote

The Wheel of Time is set in a sprawling, epic world where magic exists, but only women can use it. Meaning that in this series — women hold the keys to power.

Then as I read some more of the thread and saw the descriptions of the books I'm shocked so many of you read all of that stuff. I guess you enjoy reading page after page of women bickering. I get enough of that in real life with my wife and her sisters. 

"Don't try to understand women. Because women understand women perfectly and they all hate each other"

- Al Bundy

[AUS-97HORN 11758]

I am going to make an assumption that this was the season finale?

 

because if it was, that was a horribly disjointed putting together of 3 storylines that got crammed into a 60 minute episode.

Instead of what probably should have happened by extending the number of episodes by at least 2 more episodes to properly set up the season cliffhanger ending. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by AUS-97HORN

[Kwix 2186]

The first season was such a huge disappointment.  I feel like if I was a non-book-reader I would be totally lost.

ScyFy level production quality and CW writing.  Where did the 10+ million an episode go?

I guess it's exactly what we should have expected with Rafe Judkins running things.

[Post Oak 20213]

Just finished.  Never read the books or even heard of them.  I thought it was just meh.  I'll probably watch s2 but I won't have any expectations.

[Horn of Gabriel 1614]

I just finished the last episode. Feels like we jumped 3 books ahead or something. Just totally disjointed, I have zero care about for anyone. Morai feels miscast, all of the dragons save the old chick feel miscast, especially the redhead who seems like a total pussy.

The fades and trollocs are cool. The stakes in the fights don’t feel real. I’m Intrigued by what could be but I’m disappointed and I’m not even a book tag. I’m disappointed by proxy.

[Neonmoon 38129]

I actually enjoyed the last two episodes. It still looks like an episode of Xenia Warrior Princess, but the story is legit. 

[YChang 3443]

35 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I actually enjoyed the last two episodes. It still looks like an episode of Xenia Warrior Princess, but the story is legit. 

Agreed. Still a bit perplexed by the lack of production values outside of the costumes… but I’m enjoying the story. 

[atomheartbevo 89656]

On 12/25/2021 at 1:55 PM, Post Oak said:

Just finished.  Never read the books or even heard of them.  I thought it was just meh.  I'll probably watch s2 but I won't have any expectations.

On 12/25/2021 at 9:47 PM, Horn of Gabriel said:

I just finished the last episode. Feels like we jumped 3 books ahead or something. Just totally disjointed, 

I'm beginning to think this stuff is a problem with a lot of first seasons of recent fantasy and sci-fi shows that were created for streaming platforms.  Like the first seasons are are leaving out certain subplots or character-building, and are "rushed" (for lack of a better word) and just don't have their timing down in terms of how their major and minor plots are written..  It's like they are getting a number of episodes and then writing for those episodes, rather than writing the stories/character arcs and figuring out how many episodes after that.

It seems like some of them recover before their first season, as if they get some breathing room and can find their footing.

Witcher and Star Trek Discovery stand out to me, and maybe Altered Carbon, and I wonder if Foundation, Wheel of Time, and Lord of the Rings will go through this - rough first season followed by a solid second season.  I think there are more, but those stand out.  

The Expanse was on network TV prior to Amazon's pick-up, so it doesn't fall into this category.  Man in the High Castle, even though it should be affected by it, the show-runners got it right. It's also a few years earlier than these examples

The Umbrella Academy and His Dark Materials I think fell into this trap a bit.

Disney avoided this simply because their Marvel shows all take place in a very familiar framework during events that are still happening, and they are doing it on a fairly tight leash (6-8 episodes) so character and plot development have to take place in a very short window.  Could you imagine a Marvel series at 12+ episodes?  Same with Star Wars/Mandalorian - takes place in a very familiar framework (the OT era).  The Marvel and Star Wars shows are merely extensions of existing properties (Mandalorian is basically falling into Rebels/ROTJ territory and is hitting the member berries like Rogue One did), and so I think our expectations are lower (we just want something that we know is familiar and entertaining).

With something like Witcher, it has the weight of the books and the incredibly popular video games, and so we are expecting to be blown away.  Same with Wheel of Time - it's got this massive weight of over a dozen famous and beloved books with Amazon backing it, and so our expectations are massive. And yeah, same with Foundation. Compounding the problems of the Witcher and Foundation are the timeline jumps within the books/etc.

Even though Star Trek Discovery shouldn't suffer from this, I think it does simply because it found itself in an odd position of having to carry the weight of all of the mistakes and fan backlash, etc. from the past 20 years, the weight of how Enterprise ended, the TNG movies, the Kelvin Timeline from Abrams' movies, etc.. and being controlled by Alex Motherfuckin' Kurtzman.  It was dropped in with a bunch of unfamiliar stuff and characters (even if they tied in Spock) and it wasn't instantly familiar in the same way that Mandalorian was. They definitely course-corrected with Season 2 (and not just because of Pike and Co.) and were able to polish off some characters and subplots in a way that kept a bunch of us coming back.

Random thoughts on a Monday night.

[F250 28770]

I just watched episode one. Is it supposed to look like they are reusing old sets from Xena Warrior Princess? This is some shitastic production.

 

 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

Lol, it does get better.

[Buzzrock 14918]

Lol, it does not get better.

FIFY

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

very disappointing.  all the secondary characters are so horribly written/acted. 

[F250 28770]

I made it through 3 episodes and it is still not good. There are moments where it will be interesting and then it loses me. Hoping it eventually catches it's stride once more of the world building takes place.

Still have an issue with the set, costumes, cinematography and actors which is a major drawback for me. These things keep pulling me out of the story because I end up wondering why buildings look so clean or why someone in a fantasy setting is wearing a sweater from a thrift store. I get the CW comments about the actors, the characters always look clean despite roaming around the wilderness for a period of time.

In episode two at the gypsy camp when they were eating paella with pita bread I was expecting Kevin Sorbo to walk out holding a gyro because it was one of those Xena moments.

This show just isn't immersive like GoT or LoTR.

 

 

[cdain3 3454]

I enjoyed it.

[utee94 15820]

I think it got a lot better toward the second half of the season.  I liked it well enough to watch a season 2 if such a thing occurs.

 

[F250 28770]

I finished episode 4 last night.

 

[YChang 3443]

I'm a fan/sucker for this genre so I'll keep watching it. But yes... very disappointed by the production quality and overall disjointed pacing. Acting is also uneven and hopefully that improves. 

[Prepuce of Doom 21071]

I have only read about half the series (no time for it once I got to college...) so my recollection is definitely hazy, but I have really enjoyed the show to this point. I found myself occasionally having a hard distinguishing plotlines, characters, and events from David Eddings's Belgariad and Mallorean books.  

I can see some of the criticism (hard to find its voice at the outset, shiny clean "primitive" world) but don't really get some of the others (pan-ethnic cast, bad effects, laughable monsters). 

With the exception of Perrin, who sometimes has the speech patterns of a person who is hard of hearing, I think it was very well-cast. For instance, you hate Liandra from the very first moment you see her East Texas Box Face. Loial (sp) looks a bit like an H.R. Puffnstuff character, and Nynaeve is even more of a beating than I remember, but Rand, Moirane, Logain, and Padan Fain all seem especially well-cast to me. 

I'm glad that it's got at least another couple of seasons to really hit its stride. 

[deech 2274]

I've not read shit.  I think world building in televisions shows is very, very difficult.  It seems balancing world building while finding the right mix of character development over eight episodes seems impossible.  I agree with others who said it probably should have been more.  

You just get thrown at the five dragon types and there is no personal attachment and truthfully it is difficult to care or be interested in any of them.  It might be because most of them can't act.  At all. 

That's not a problem if there is some background or depth into the quest of the blue lady which there was not other than the dragon is going to join or stop the bad guy.  

Which is not a problem if there is some buildup to the political intrigue they try to create at the White Tower.   I mean the blue girl is royalty?  What the hell does that mean?  Oh she's sleeping with the Amber seat, why the hell does anyone care?  Yellow are healers, red goes after people using powers that shouldn't, blue are spies, what the fuck are greens?  

Which is not a problem if there is some background or depth into the bad guy and what he's been up to over the years.  

I mean I was half paying attention after the first few episodes so I probably missed some things, but in general it just seemed like a poorly acted mess that was extremely poorly written.  

 

[atomheartbevo 89656]

1 hour ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

For instance, you hate Liandra from the very first moment you see her East Texas Box Face.

[F250 28770]

Regarding the multi-ethnic characters, it was a little confusing because I was under the assumption that the different ethnicities were from different regions of this fictitious world. There were some references here and there with the red heads being some Warrior society up in the mountains and the Asian guy dressed like a Samurai being from a extinct kingdom but the show was never really clear on the layout of the world.

For instance, GoT provided a lot of detail about the different kingdoms, geography and history of the different people in Westeros. WoT didn't really explain this information and also was lacking on the lore behind the WoT. It almost felt like the show was meant for the fans of the book.

They could have done a better job with the world building for people new to this world.

 

 

[4doorsMoreWhores 107]

I knew it was gonna suck when I saw it was by Amazon

[elfenix 34236]

On 1/6/2022 at 9:39 AM, F250 said:

a sweater from a thrift store.

Stout Two Rivers Woolens™

[Tommy Shelby 188]

Just finished the first season (never even heard of the books). The multicultural thing just kind of felt forced. I’m pretty ambivalent about the story. It wasn’t bad, but not good enough that I’ll be anticipating the next season. The whole channeling thing didn’t feel at all like it was based on physics, but maybe the book has a better explanation. I just don’t know if I care enough. Then again I didn’t really like squid game either, so maybe my taste is messed up haha. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Tommy Shelby

[atomheartbevo 89656]

Some spoilers for S2

 

[atomheartbevo 89656]

Season 3 was greenlit, and the showrunners say it'll revolve around book 4, The Shadow Rising.

[Neonmoon 38129]

Did they greenlight more money for set, costume, and cinematography? 

[High Plains Drifter 11046]

On 12/21/2021 at 6:16 PM, rage-a-holic said:

I don't understand this, or any of the other apologist praise around here.

This show is pure unadulterated dogshit. Everything. Casting, acting, writing, production. Zero redeeming values.

That piece of shit woke, no-talent fuckhead producer/writer Rafe needs to be dropped in a vat of boiling acid.

As I predicted, it's been turned into a fucking CW teen drama with magic and super extra diversity.

 

don't hold back. Tell us what you really think, grandpa.

 

 

[Augustus 3061]

Just discovered and binged this in a few days.  Had never heard of the books.  Did some minimal premise research and dove in.

Most fascinating element of this series for me, going in:  I've always wondered what would happen if some sort of plague or apocalypse wiped out our ability to manufacture anything on a large scale, maintain intra- and international shipping, etc. Basically all the stuff we're able to do that makes our level of technological and commercial lives sustainable.  I'm curious how quickly, and to what degree our lives would devolve to the Middle Ages, in other words. 

It seemed like that was a big part of the premise here, and I really liked seeing that confirmed in the cold open of the season finale.  The current world is as much future as it is history.  I absolutely love that concept.  You're dealing with societies that are reduced technologically to what we they were like centuries ago, but sociologically have moved beyond a lot of stuff like homophobia or disenfranchised women, etc etc.

That's a fantastic and intriguing concept that's never really been explored thoroughly.  In almost all post-apocalyptic movies/series the devastation is a backdrop and the characters are just subsisting best they can as they work through the plot.   It got more treatment in this show and so I enjoyed that.

Yes, they're too clean most of the time but that's true for just about any production set before the 20th century.  I wasn't distracted by the color palette as many here were, and even though I agree the sets and costumes looked like Xena or Star Trek the Next Generation at times, that didn't bother me.

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Augustus

[Augustus 3061]

My only real disappointment is how anticlimactic the finale was.  All the talk about the Dark One and the inevitable confrontation with the Dragon Reborn and all that was at stake, and here's a little amulet statue that'll enhance your power 100 fold (implying some sort of epic battle) and we basically get Osama bin Boring giving Rand a "Daenerys in the Warlock temple" vision of his wife/kid, his realization that if she's different in any way than she's not the same person, so he channels the One Power into his little Buddha and we see Lucifer dissolve in a bright light with what looked like a smile on his face so obviously Rand did what the Dark One wanted.  Oops.  Moiraine's WiFi gets severed and the lamp salesman steals a horn that got very little/very confusing info about.

I'm really not sure at all what happened--beyond the obvious "this is the first battle, not the last."  Mysterious orphan Anakin-Frodo wanders off alone.  Nynaeve appears dead but suddenly heals and wakes up (did she heal herself, given her power is so strong?) and the "I've got 5 kids to feed" character from Total Recall says something about 5 ta'veren being unusual and all having roles to play blah blah.

If I missed anything that makes all of this easier to understand please enlighten me.  

Edited January 27, 2023 by Augustus

[Augustus 3061]

Last question, regarding the Apocalypto final scene when the Europeans arrive in the Yucatan, can someone spoiler tag who they are for me?  

[atomheartbevo 89656]

Series 2, coming in September.  Still would.  Rosamund Pike still has my interests....