Amazon setting the bar: $15 min hourly wage

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

I would guess that everyone should be happy about the announcement that Amazon (US' 2nd largest employer after Wal-Mart) is raising their minimum wage to $15 on Nov 1st:  https://money.cnn.com/2018/10/02/technology/amazon-minimum-wage/index.html

The Left should be happy that more people are getting a livable wage and the Right should be happy that this wasn't a govt mandate.  Win win.

I supposed that other companies that utilize the same labor pool  as Amazon won't be happy as fewer people will want to work for them.  I also wonder if Amazon will force this wage on vendors or partner companies, like their new small delivery companies.  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,871]

Was wondering when this would become a topic. Guess Bezos didn't like the idea of having to reimburse the government for his employees' gov't assistance.

[UTDD 362]

It's a good decision for them, especially considering the now public optics of having Bezos with that kind of net worth versus some of their entry level employees.  It's also clear that they are in the possible cross hairs of an unfriendly administration so they should be proactive in defending themselves.    

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

I believe Wal-Mart is at $11.  It would be a big jump for them to $15 but these type of employers can set the market.  You work in a warehouse for no-name company for $10, you will be applying to work at an Amazon warehouse every chance you get.  Your current employer may have to react with higher wages.  

And while not stated, I assume Amazon has to raise other wages as well.  At least for employees just above 15.

[happyfunball 481]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I believe Wal-Mart is at $11.  It would be a big jump for them to $15 but these type of employers can set the market.  You work in a warehouse for no-name company for $10, you will be applying to work at an Amazon warehouse every chance you get.  Your current employer may have to react with higher wages.  

And while not stated, I assume Amazon has to raise other wages as well.  At least for employees just above 15.

Costco is at $14 so this is a big deal. 

[Captainant 27,671]

3 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Was wondering when this would become a topic. Guess Bezos didn't like the idea of having to reimburse the government for his employees' gov't assistance.

Still bamboozles me that we (the taxpayer) subsidize Wal-mart and damn near every other brick and mortar retailer through government assistance. I'm all for one fewer corporate welfare case, but amazon is far from the worst or the first company to underpay its workers. Damn near every clothing store pays its workers dogshit with insanely inconsistent hours and 24-hour scheduling where you don't know when you're working until 24hrs before.

 

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

And while not stated, I assume Amazon has to raise other wages as well.  At least for employees just above 15.

Yeah, the amazon blog said that they were adjusting all pay accordingly. No idea what that actually means or works out to, but they've at least said the new pay floor is $15/hr

[Mack Tripper 696]

2 minutes ago, happyfunball said:

Costco is at $14 so this is a big deal. 

Yeah, I know that place pretty good. I went to law school there. 

[atomheartbevo 89,674]

14 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Was wondering when this would become a topic. Guess Bezos didn't like the idea of having to reimburse the government for his employees' gov't assistance.

That, and some were talking about this affecting future infrastructure (infrastructure week!) - with cities/states being very leery about giving him a bunch of breaks, only to find themselves having to help out his employees.

[sheeeit 129]

2 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

That, and some were talking about this affecting future infrastructure (infrastructure week!) - with cities/states being very leery about giving him a bunch of breaks, only to find themselves having to help out his employees.

"Some" were.  Bullshit.  Any city/state that realistically thinks they have a chance to get the facilities will not even consider the scenario you described.  It is completely nonsensical.  Think about what you are saying.  The only possible way that cities would worry about this is if they have 100% employment now and no workers in any industry that pay less than Amazon.  No cities have that.  

As to the announcement, I think it is great for Amazon and their employees and a win for the economy.  It is not a coincidence that you did not see this during periods of tepid gdp growth.

[hayden_horn 11,362]

we stopped at the katy bucees over the weekend. they had a sign out advertising that hey were hiring. i want to say it said $14-$17/hour to start, full time, with 3 weeks vacation, health benefits, and 401k. 

this is the way successful companies are going. 

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

Solid.  I bet some of it has to do with Seattle's 15 dollar minimum wage.  If they're paying that much in the Seattle area already, the PR bump from doing it everywhere else is probably well worth it.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,871]

2 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

On the other end, the Spirit Halloween store has popped up for their month of squatting, and are advertising paying their people (a level above transients and 8th graders) $9/hr

well, you gotta keep that cheap plastic shit, well, cheap

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,871]

17 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

we stopped at the katy bucees over the weekend. they had a sign out advertising that hey were hiring. i want to say it said $14-$17/hour to start, full time, with 3 weeks vacation, health benefits, and 401k. 

this is the way successful companies are going. 

good. they're realizing underpaying people actually hurts their bottom line. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

I imagine there are some areas of the country that don't like seeing this.  Remember when the Oklahoma state govt. passed a law a few years ago preventing cities from setting a minimum wage?    Local businesses pressured the state to stop the cities, like Tulsa or OKC.    These same business owners can't be happy with Amazon. (I'm assuming that Amazon has warehouses in OK.)

[High Plains Drifter 11,049]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I would guess that everyone should be happy about the announcement that Amazon (US' 2nd largest employer after Wal-Mart) is raising their minimum wage to $15 on Nov 1st:  https://money.cnn.com/2018/10/02/technology/amazon-minimum-wage/index.html

The Left should be happy that more people are getting a livable wage and the Right should be happy that this wasn't a govt mandate.  Win win.

I supposed that other companies that utilize the same labor pool  as Amazon won't be happy as fewer people will want to work for them.  I also wonder if Amazon will force this wage on vendors or partner companies, like their new small delivery companies.  

Let's not start sucking Bezos's dick just yet.

 

Amazon is doing this for one of two reasons:

1) They can't hire enough people. "Raising their minimum wage to 15$ an hour" is a publicity stunt designed to get the word out to all the potential employees working at other warehouses for less than that. Free advertising.

and/or

2) They are doing this to force their competitors out of business. Their smaller competitors can't eat the cost of paying more. This will ultimately increase Amazon's market share.

 

 

[BillyGoatHill 4,312]

^^^^^^^^ yep...

Edited October 2, 2018 by BillyGoatHill

[TwiceHorn 31,475]

27 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I imagine there are some areas of the country that don't like seeing this.  Remember when the Oklahoma state govt. passed a law a few years ago preventing cities from setting a minimum wage?    Local businesses pressured the state to stop the cities, like Tulsa or OKC.    These same business owners can't be happy with Amazon. (I'm assuming that Amazon has warehouses in OK.)

Not to mention that it's a huge windfall for Oklahoma workers, as Tulsa 15 is a lot better than Seattle 15.  As will be the case over much of the country.  Without a COLA across the country, it makes little sense for Amazon except as noted above as a publicity stunt or predatory practice.

Edited October 2, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Not to mention that it's a huge windfall for Oklahoma workers, as Tulsa 15 is a lot better than Seattle 15.  As will be the case over much of the country.

$15 in Tulsa....  Ruling the roost.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,463]

Remember when noted labor economist @Ag with kids was considering not tipping at restaurants that paid more than minimum wage because he was convinced they were over charging him? Good times. I wonder if he's going to stop buying stuff at Amazon...

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[Horn of Gabriel 1,614]

Bezos gets good pub for awhile, but I bet you over the next five years he eliminates more than enough workers via automation to pay for this raise 3 times over.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

2 minutes ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Bezos gets good pub for awhile, but I bet you over the next five years he eliminates more than enough workers via automation to pay for this raise 3 times over.

I don’t know if amazon will have fewer people overall but I agree that they will be automating as much as they can.   It’s a bigger problem that we are soon to have millions and millions of people that want jobs but they don’t exist due to automation. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Nice Guy Eddie

[Incredulity 11,674]

1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don’t know if amazon will have fewer people overall but I agree that they will be automating as much as they can.   It’s a bigger problem that we are soon to have millions and millions of people that want jobs but they don’t exist due to automation. 

Every company I deal will would kill for a few thousand people avaliable for even some of the most remedial tasks.

Currently lack of labor avalibility is driving automation projects more than employee cost.

[CooterBrown 18,013]

we stopped at the katy bucees over the weekend. they had a sign out advertising that hey were hiring. i want to say it said $14-$17/hour to start, full time, with 3 weeks vacation, health benefits, and 401k. 

this is the way successful companies are going. 

 

El Tacorido on Burnet has a sign out that their starting wage is $14-16/hour. Damn fine hourly pay plus tacos.

[Mdhorn 5,949]

thought Cosco already paid their employees 43k?

https://www.businessinsider.com/costco-pays-retail-employees-20-an-hour-2014-10 

[Jack Burton 35]

Every company alive is using technology to automate. There is nothing w/tax reform or their expenses that have triggered automation. But people sure as shit expect you to pay your employees more when those people still have to get govt assistance when corporate tax rate just fell 40%. It shouldnt take an army of bad press to see the "trickle down"

[Bozo_Casanova 26,463]

1 hour ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Bezos gets good pub for awhile, but I bet you over the next five years he eliminates more than enough workers via automation to pay for this raise 3 times over.

I have no idea what you think you mean by this. Automation is coming anyway. You don't seem to understand that in a tight labor market employers actually compete for the services of their employees, even at the entry level. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Bozo_Casanova

[TornACL 7,698]

It's interesting about this Amazon story, and the recent demonization of their low pay. 

I contract with companies who frequently find themselves in competition with Amazon for warehouse workers. Whenever they have entered a market for the past three years, the turnover at other nearby facilities skyrockets. 

I can only imagine this is because they were already paying a lot of these folks above min or market wage, and provided better benefits. 

 

[Horn of Gabriel 1,614]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I have no idea what you think you mean by this. Automation is coming anyway. You don't seem to understand that in a tight labor market employers actually compete for the services of their employees, even at the entry level. 

What?  I didn't say anything about the tight labor pool or competing with other employers, which is an obvious point.  I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion based on what I wrote.

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

How much are they going to pay their 3rd party contractor delivery drivers? After providing their own vehicle, their own fuel, their own liability insurance, their own health care...I doubt it comes out to $15 hour.

[Goredho 17,406]

You would have to pay me a hell of a lot more than $15 to do the work shown in this video of an Amazon fulfillment center.   The robot roombas carting the shelving around exercise more thought than the humans standing in one place, monotonously picking from the shelves dragged to them.
 

 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Goredho

[Whitman 694]

I may have missed it above, and I agree completely with the sentiment that if an adult is making $8/hr then the gov't is subsidizing in many ways, but, big picture as a society, what do we do with the soon to be unemployed Cletus Delbridge who just does not add $15/hr to the product.  I tend to think that Amazon pickers do add the value and the company will now pay or automate more.  Cletus is not capable of being trained for another better job (and his cousin Guppy is not willing/interested), so do prices rise (replacing his gov't subsidies) to cover his costs, or does he just sit on the porch full time on full welfare, or is the herd thinned out?

[Bozo_Casanova 26,463]

What?  I didn't say anything about the tight labor pool or competing with other employers, which is an obvious point.  I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion based on what I wrote.

Because you suggested that value capture from hypothetical future automation is funding the higher entry level wage floor and thus by implication that the wage is overmarket as currently structured.

[formermav43 4,606]

16 hours ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

good. they're realizing underpaying people actually hurts their bottom line. 

Bucees has had those signs for many years.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

1 hour ago, Whitman said:

I may have missed it above, and I agree completely with the sentiment that if an adult is making $8/hr then the gov't is subsidizing in many ways, but, big picture as a society, what do we do with the soon to be unemployed Cletus Delbridge who just does not add $15/hr to the product.  I tend to think that Amazon pickers do add the value and the company will now pay or automate more.  Cletus is not capable of being trained for another better job (and his cousin Guppy is not willing/interested), so do prices rise (replacing his gov't subsidies) to cover his costs, or does he just sit on the porch full time on full welfare, or is the herd thinned out?

It’s a good question of what do we do with a person, that for whatever reason, will have a lifetime of unemployment or underemployment.     

 

[Goredho 17,406]

16 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 It’s a good question of what do we do with a person, that for whatever reason, will have a lifetime of unemployment or underemployment.     

  

 

[CooterBrown 18,013]

If more people worked in Amazon warehouses, a by produce would be it'd lower the obesity problem in America. A teacher I know worked in the San Marcos warehouse last summer for extra cash. He averaged 14 miles a shift. He said it was the hardest he's ever worked.

 

[CooterBrown 18,013]

1 hour ago, Whitman said:

I may have missed it above, and I agree completely with the sentiment that if an adult is making $8/hr then the gov't is subsidizing in many ways, but, big picture as a society, what do we do with the soon to be unemployed Cletus Delbridge who just does not add $15/hr to the product.  I tend to think that Amazon pickers do add the value and the company will now pay or automate more.  Cletus is not capable of being trained for another better job (and his cousin Guppy is not willing/interested), so do prices rise (replacing his gov't subsidies) to cover his costs, or does he just sit on the porch full time on full welfare, or is the herd thinned out?

Personally, I'd rather pay more as a consumer knowing it creates self-sufficient employees.  That's a "good" cost IMO.  However, the vast majority of 'Merica wants cheap shit and gives two fucks about the repercussions.

 

[Celery Man 20,951]

7 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Personally, I'd rather pay more as a consumer knowing it creates self-sufficient employees.  That's a "good" cost IMO.  However, the vast majority of 'Merica wants cheap shit and gives two fucks about the repercussions.

 

Amazon wants to continue to retain the Whole Foods shoppers who get a metric fuck ton of shit from Amazon but deal with the cognitive dissonance around it doing the same types of things that Wal-Mart does.  The more it is publicized how low pay and difficult a lot of the necessary work is, the harder it gets to hate Wal-Mart but have dash buttons littered throughout your house.

Edited October 3, 2018 by Celery Man

[David Dennison 18,860]

Recession is coming.

[Horn of Gabriel 1,614]

7 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Because you suggested that value capture from hypothetical future automation is funding the higher entry level wage floor

Correct

Quote

and thus by implication that the wage is overmarket as currently structured.

Incorrect

I think you're letting your internal SJW read an implication that isn't there.  I have no idea the labor rate for warehouse workers like the kind Amazon employs.  BTW it is very possible that like any complex issue, there are multiple simultaneous right answers, including:

• Bezos did this because he's been beat up recently in the media for poor working conditions and low wages, AND,
• They're having trouble hiring in a scarce labor market and needed to raise wages to get the people they needed, AND,
• Even though this move may dilute margin in the short-term, the automation trend in general - and Amazon's aggressive automation and investment in technology in the specific will make it moot soon as they eliminate human positions in favor of technology

[Bozo_Casanova 26,463]

1 hour ago, Horn of Gabriel said:

Correct

Incorrect

I think you're letting your internal SJW read an implication that isn't there.  I have no idea the labor rate for warehouse workers like the kind Amazon employs.  BTW it is very possible that like any complex issue, there are multiple simultaneous right answers, including:

• Bezos did this because he's been beat up recently in the media for poor working conditions and low wages, AND,
• They're having trouble hiring in a scarce labor market and needed to raise wages to get the people they needed, AND,
• Even though this move may dilute margin in the short-term, the automation trend in general - and Amazon's aggressive automation and investment in technology in the specific will make it moot soon as they eliminate human positions in favor of technology

My internal "SJW"? That's rich. 

Despite the fact that you freely admit to not knowing anything about the labor market you're opining about, you attempt to cherrypick inputs. They all count, sorry it hurts your feelings. But the the real crowing cherry on top of this cupcake of proudly displayed ignorance is that you reference margin, which as anyone who knows anything about Amazon could tell you if you didn't have your fingers in your ears is contrary to Amazon's management philosophy, which can be summed up by the very famous Jeff Bezos quote "your margin is my opportunity".

[Horn of Gabriel 1,614]

LOL, "my feelings," ok big guy.  Did you go to UT?  Because if so I'm embarrassed to share that distinction with you; you're knocking down straw men left and right.

[Jack Burton 35]

You aren't smart

[Zepol87 9,186]

dumb question amnesty please.....

Has a company does this before that had a ripple effect like this will cause? Other companies will follow suit because they will need workers. I've always heard the argument from older people that it didn't matter because the price of goods will go up to compensate for it. I think those were more discussions about raising the federal minimum wage type of argument. My company just had a meeting last week about how we are going to have to raise our CSR types that start at 10.50 an hour and some other positions that are 11. I am sure they don't like it but I know those people bust their ass a lot of the time so good for them going forward. My moms company is raising their starting pay to 14.25 from 9.00/hr. I see a lot of good of people making livable wages but with anything I am sure we have drawbacks. What negatives are we looking at here?

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

The simple answer is that the product/service you are selling will go up with a wage increase but that doesn’t necessarily happen.  

If the market will pay $100 for your product, they don’t really care that your labor costs just went up today.  They want to pay $100.  If you charge $101, they might go to your competitor.   And if they are willing to pay $101 why weren’t you charging that yesterday to begin with.  You had previously been leaving some money on the table.

Another problem is that if you are now losing money selling it for $100, you might have no choice but to raise prices or find other areas to cut.  

[Longhorn_Fan68 33,871]

28 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The simple answer is that the product/service you are selling will go up with a wage increase but that doesn’t necessarily happen.  

If the market will pay $100 for your product, they don’t really care that your labor costs just went up today.  They want to pay $100.  If you charge $101, they might go to your competitor.   And if they are willing to pay $101 why weren’t you charging that yesterday to begin with.  You had previously been leaving some money on the table.

Another problem is that if you are now losing money selling it for $100, you might have no choice but to raise prices or find other areas to cut.  

Like CEO pay?

[ernest_t_bass 1,196]

Thought 1) This will put a dent in small businesses, who struggle to provide proper benefits to their employees, let alone pay them more.  $15/hour is a decent wage at a small business, especially for someone with only a high school education, or even worse.  

Thought 2) Minimum wage, in my opinion, is synonymous with menial jobs, unskilled labor, and (dare I say) lower class.  If this were to continue, I would fully expect any jobs that require licenses, certificates, or degrees to see pay raises as well.  

 

Thought 3 ) Inflation says hi.

Edited October 4, 2018 by ernest_t_bass

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,512]

17 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Thought 1) This will put a dent in small businesses, who struggle to provide proper benefits to their employees, let alone pay them more.  $15/hour is a decent wage at a small business, especially for someone with only a high school education, or even worse.  

Thought 2) Minimum wage, in my opinion, is synonymous with menial jobs, unskilled labor, and (dare I say) lower class.  If this were to continue, I would fully expect any jobs that require licenses, certificates, or degrees to see pay raises as well.  

 

Thought 3 ) Inflation says hi.

Wages have stagnated for the better part of a decade for most Americans.  For some, much longer.  

[A Cellar Honker 19]

On 10/2/2018 at 8:30 PM, Horn of Gabriel said:

Bezos gets good pub for awhile, but I bet you over the next five years he eliminates more than enough workers via automation to pay for this raise 3 times over.

This.  He’s already eliminated bonuses to warehouse personnel in the wake of this, and some employees are complaining that they will make less money after the minimum wage hike.