Adding to the pit bull argument

[closetohumping 17,302]

I posted this in the Kevin thread but maybe it fits better here:

 

some interesting call outs:

Thai jockey that weighed 210 pounds?

pit had never shown aggression 

pits can be jealous?

who names their pit Nazi?  Another link in the story.

They’re not gonna put the pit that killed it's owner down.  The pit was able to drag a 210 pound guy into his cage and eat his guts.  JFC

I would not count a victory over a pit as automatic 

 

https://nextshark.com/thai-man-dies-saving-mother-pet-pit-bull-attack?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0_7AZdwLhylYWYsT8A-eBHuOVZOoBWVq1o-MaRsmwAoTyXN_W11cSseZM&mibextid=Zxz2cZ#Echobox=1676077921

[Nivek 16,688]

I posted this in the Kevin thread but maybe it fits better here:
 

some interesting call outs:

Thai jockey that weighed 210 pounds?

pit had never shown aggression 

pits can be jealous?

who names their pit Nazi?  Another link in the story.

They’re not gonna put the pit that killed it's owner down.  The pit was able to drag a 210 pound guy into his cage and eat his guts.  JFC

I would not count a victory over a pit as automatic 

 

https://nextshark.com/thai-man-dies-saving-mother-pet-pit-bull-attack?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0_7AZdwLhylYWYsT8A-eBHuOVZOoBWVq1o-MaRsmwAoTyXN_W11cSseZM&mibextid=Zxz2cZ#Echobox=1676077921

A diminutive obese guy (assumption based on career) who lives with mommy isn’t the typical 170 lb male who is going into this with a killer mentality.

We can all find examples of dogs killing people, usually olds, kids, etc. I think a 14 yr old typical boy would handle most dogs, but not the bigger threats breeds. By 25, typical male should easily put down any k9/wolf solo.

[956 Worldwide 34,016]

This is my favorite bit on surly. 

[smokebomb 357]

38 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

This is my favorite bite on surly. 

FIFY

[GoPokes83 2,236]

Rather be judged by 12 than mauled by 2
 
 

I like how everyone renders aid to that guy from 15 feet away.

[Jkwellborn 6,597]

A diminutive obese guy (assumption based on career) who lives with mommy isn’t the typical 170 lb male who is going into this with a killer mentality.

We can all find examples of dogs killing people, usually olds, kids, etc. I think a 14 yr old typical boy would handle most dogs, but not the bigger threats breeds. By 25, typical male should easily put down any k9/wolf solo.

You ever seen police dogs train?

[GoPokes83 2,236]

A diminutive obese guy (assumption based on career) who lives with mommy isn’t the typical 170 lb male who is going into this with a killer mentality.

We can all find examples of dogs killing people, usually olds, kids, etc. I think a 14 yr old typical boy would handle most dogs, but not the bigger threats breeds. By 25, typical male should easily put down any k9/wolf solo.

So that’s why police and military dogs are unable to subdue grown men on a daily basis?

[fattyflattie 4,633]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

any k9/wolf solo.

lol wut. 

[Nivek 16,688]

35 minutes ago, GoPokes83 said:

So that’s why police and military dogs are unable to subdue grown men on a daily basis?

We recently had a story where a guy choked a police K9 to death here in Houston (dog was engaged with the first person when the 2nd came up and killed it). 

This argument failed on the other thread as well.  Most people are not locked in a cage with a police dog in a 1v1 scenario.  Instead, they are trying to flee the scene.  The dogs purpose is to scare, track, and delay until the police come.  The real threat isn't the dog, it's the armed men with guns.   

[Nivek 16,688]

44 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

You ever seen police dogs train?

yes.   And are they training against a dummy or a person in a puffy suit, or are they training with someone trying to break those spindly legs of theirs?

[Nivek 16,688]

28 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

lol wut. 

Search the other thread.  Farmer kills wolf with bare hands is in that one as well.  

[BabaYaga 15,184]

3 hours ago, Nivek said:

By 25, typical male should easily put down any k9/wolf solo.

Drunk posting is the best posting.  lol

[fattyflattie 4,633]

28 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Search the other thread.  Farmer kills wolf with bare hands is in that one as well.  

Yeah, I’m sure it has been done.   I watched a guy beat the shit out of a roo once too. Doesn’t mean that would be the case 999/1000 times though.    

[fattyflattie 4,633]

Search the other thread.  Farmer kills wolf with bare hands is in that one as well.  

This thing would fuck up people at will.

[BabaYaga 15,184]

25 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

Yeah, I’m sure it has been done.   I watched a guy beat the shit out of a roo once too. Doesn’t mean that would be the case 999/1000 times though.    

 A sketchy Russian video of a wolf chasing a dog, then the frame cuts to the guy on the ground over the wolf.  Not buying it.  A wolf terrorizing your farm, there is a ZERO chance the guy is not armed every time he is around his animals.   

[Apep 644]

28 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

This thing would fuck up people at will.

Not while they’re knotted.

[Nivek 16,688]

Drunk posting is the best posting.  lol

So a guy wearing a puffy outfit exaggerating a hit by some trained dog to sell something is pretty far removed from some Michael Vicking one of them.

My toddler knocked me over once as well. Pretty sure i could take him.

[Bevo 13,439]

Quote

My toddler knocked me over once as well. Pretty sure i could take him.

FAFO

[hookemATL 11,510]

Ive trained with Liam Neeson, I can fight any wolf or generic Eastern European that gets thrown at me.

 

[Deej 76,218]

39 minutes ago, Nivek said:

So a guy wearing a puffy outfit exaggerating a hit by some trained dog to sell something is pretty far removed from some Michael Vicking one of them.

My toddler knocked me over once as well. Pretty sure i could take him.

I'm sure Michael Vick was squaring off in a ring with them or something. It's  not like they were chained up or in a kennel, or anything like that when he killed them.

[Jkwellborn 6,597]

Search the other thread.  Farmer kills wolf with bare hands is in that one as well.  

You can also find instances where men have killed mountain lions and leopards with their bare hands.

But don’t act like that it’s something that happens normally.

[Nivek 16,688]

3 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

You can also find instances where men have killed mountain lions and leopards with their bare hands.

But don’t act like that it’s something that happens normally.

Seems like the couple of incidents I have read about indicated the fight was over relatively quickly.  The men needed some stitches but in both cases (Colorado/India) both men had the mindset to kill the beast.  Both guys ended up putting a knee on its neck and suffocating the cats.   

To be clear,  I believe that most men, with reasonable fitness, in reasonable health, in the 18-35 yr range could easily defeat the beasts (dogs, mountain lions, leopards, wolves).   Most of Surly (well probably back in the HornFans or LonghornFanZone days for some of us) could do it with relative ease.   

That doesn't mean they come out completely unscathed, but they survive without life-altering injuries.  Canines have smaller teeth and their claws are much less of a threat than a cat in a one-on-one scenario.   Wolves are pack hunters, they tend to strike and then pull back and do this several times to weaken prey due to blood loss.  Then they go for the kill.   That isn't happening in this scenario.  

 

I generally think we tend to underrate our abilities and overestimate our adversaries.

 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Nivek

[Steel Shank 9,337]

I've killed 7 wolves with my bare hands, so yeah, it can be done.

[fattyflattie 4,633]

Slayed a cougar or three in my 20’s. Maybe Nivek is actually onto something. 

[TwiceHorn 30,851]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

Seems like the couple of incidents I have read about indicated the fight was over relatively quickly.  The men needed some stitches but in both cases (Colorado/India) both men had the mindset to kill the beast.  Both guys ended up putting a knee on its neck and suffocating the cats.   

To be clear,  I believe that most men, with reasonable fitness, in reasonable health, in the 18-35 yr range could easily defeat the beasts (dogs, mountain lions, leopards, wolves).   Most of Surly (well probably back in the HornFans or LonghornFanZone days for some of us) could do it with relative ease.   

That doesn't mean they come out completely unscathed, but they survive without life-altering injuries.  Canines have smaller teeth and their claws are much less of a threat than a cat in a one-on-one scenario.   Wolves are pack hunters, they tend to strike and then pull back and do this several times to weaken prey due to blood loss.  Then they go for the kill.   That isn't happening in this scenario.  

 

I generally think we tend to underrate our abilities and overestimate our adversaries.

 

You're right about wolves, like most dogs, being pack hunters and attackers.  And that they lack the claws of big cats.  Surprisingly, to me, the average North American wolf weighs substantially less than 100 lbs.

Cougars, on the other hand, average more than 100 lbs for males, slightly less for females.  And they average about 5 feet in length, without tail.  That means they're standing pretty close to six feet tall. They don't have the bite pressure or large mouths of wolves, but those claws   . . .

And both animals are raw muscle and strength, unlike most humans.

Escape an encounter with a wolf or cougar, sure.  Defeat as by killing without a weapon? Mmm nah, not buying that.  Maybe a smaller wolf.

One thing is that an attacking cougar or wolf probably is not in the best of health as seems to be the usual case in those attacks.  Starving, rabid, something.  Healthy ones are probably going to stay away from humans and females protecting cubs probably aren't in it for the kill.

The trail runner that choked out a cougar, well it was a juvenile about 35-40 lbs. https://coloradosun.com/2019/07/18/mountain-lion-attack-travis-kauffman-life-after/

Tying it back to the Kevin chimp thread, Leopards are slightly smaller than cougars, but they frequently prey on primates, including gorillas.

Edited February 14, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[Nivek 16,688]

13 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

You're right about wolves, like most dogs, being pack hunters and attackers.  And that they lack the claws of big cats.  Surprisingly, to me, the average North American wolf weighs substantially less than 100 lbs.

Cougars, on the other hand, average more than 100 lbs for males, slightly less for females.  And they average about 5 feet in length, without tail.  That means they're standing pretty close to six feet tall. They don't have the bite pressure or large mouths of wolves, but those claws   . . .

And both animals are raw muscle and strength, unlike most humans.

Escape an encounter with a wolf or cougar, sure.  Defeat as by killing without a weapon? Mmm nah, not buying that.  Maybe a smaller wolf.

One thing is that an attacking cougar or wolf probably is not in the best of health as seems to be the usual case in those attacks.  Starving, rabid, something.  Healthy ones are probably going to stay away from humans and females protecting cubs probably aren't in it for the kill.

The trail runner that choked out a cougar, well it was a juvenile about 35-40 lbs. https://coloradosun.com/2019/07/18/mountain-lion-attack-travis-kauffman-life-after/

Tying it back to the Kevin chimp thread, Leopards are slightly smaller than cougars, but they frequently prey on primates, including gorillas.

I thought the cougar that the Colorado guy killed was 50 lbs, and he was 150 lbs according to one article I saw.  The same article said he was 5'10."

Not sure why the weight of a wolf surprises you.  Being a pack hunter, it seems advantageous to be relatively lean and not dependent upon a huge amount of calories to maintain muscle mass when one has to cover so much range.  But @Pods could help here.   

That fellow killed the cat by suffocating it after pressing its head into the dirt and using his knee to pin it.   The guy in India pretty much did the same.   Still, I think a cat is more of a threat than a dog/wolf.  The claws on the cat can easily puncture skin and cut an artery.  From what I recall cats are really optimized for going for the throat of their prey and their teeth also easily tear into the throat.    

Dogs/Wolves being pack hunters are really not great at a straight attack.  Once a man gets his hands on the dog, he can pretty much do whatever he wants to it.  We have the ability to grab and leverage our weight/strengths fairly easily against a canine.  There was the guy who punted a not-so-wiley coyote with a simple straight kick to its face.  

I think the difference in our perspectives is that in the scenario we have concocted,  in a small enclosed area, the man is not seeking to avoid the encounter.  So risking a bite vs. kicking the dog and dazing it is a fair risk.  Wrestling the animal who has only one possible way to grab at you (bite) vs. using your arms and knees to pin a beast down heavily favors the man.   The dog/wolf strategy is to dictate the attack point by attacking a fleeing prey.  In this scenario, the man is out to kill the beast not seek out avoidance, so he can attack back and jump on the damn critter or react to the attack point and counter by closing the distance.  

 

 

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11,561]

This made me want to watch some police dog take downs

lulz at number 3.  you may get me on the meth charge, but i'll be damned if some cop tags with with failure to signal.

 

 

 

[Kennythetiger 9,284]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:23 PM, fattyflattie said:

Slayed a cougar or three in my 20’s. Maybe Nivek is actually onto something. 

These cougars are around 100 pounds. Yours were double that. 

[JesusSweatDuck 17,779]

[Guest]

On 2/13/2023 at 7:20 PM, Nivek said:

I believe that most men, with reasonable fitness, in reasonable health, in the 18-35 yr range could easily defeat the beasts (dogs, mountain lions, leopards, wolves). 

Lol, easily defeat big cats?  Most men is inclusive of the posters here. 

Are you a pit supporter or are you anti-pit

[Brothahorn 10,079]

[Nivek 16,688]

On 2/19/2023 at 9:55 PM, Porterhouse said:

Lol, easily defeat big cats?  Most men is inclusive of the posters here. 

Are you a pit supporter or are you anti-pit

don't read to good do ya.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

don't read to good do ya.

I read better than you execute grammar. I’m just lazy and don’t really give a fuck. If you wanna tell me, great. If not, the thread can proceed with reading inane posts suggesting cougars are 50 pounds, and most fit men can easily dispatch big cats. 

[fattyflattie 4,633]

On 2/15/2023 at 1:27 PM, Kennythetiger said:

These cougars are around 100 pounds. Yours were double that. 

Oof.  Would be swallowed up by a 200#. Think those are Cape buffalo, not cougars. 

[Nivek 16,688]

5 hours ago, Porterhouse said:

I read better than you execute grammar. I’m just lazy and don’t really give a fuck. If you wanna tell me, great. If not, the thread can proceed with reading inane posts suggesting cougars are 50 pounds, and most fit men can easily dispatch big cats. 

I was dumbing it down for you.  Note: you was spelled ya.

Regarding the bold, yeah, we already figured that part out.  

Edited February 22, 2023 by Nivek

[ImissWallyPryor 9,044]

My daughter and her friend (no pics) were walking her dog in her new neighborhood recently, and a young male pit bull ran across 4 lanes of traffic and started to attack her dog. She ended up falling backwards on a small slope while pulling her dog away. The pit heard it’s owner whistling outside the back door and ran back across the street, almost getting hit by cars. She was fucking lucky the dog was young and fixed.

I practically had to force her fiancé to go talk to that neighbor, with or without my daughter. The owner had just moved in, and he didn’t even realize what had transpired. Her fiancé said the owner was very apologetic, so I guess that made it A-okay. I kept telling her to file a police report so they would at least have something on record in case this dog (or the owner) are involved in another incident in the future.

She didn’t want to, so I asked her if she would file a report if the homeowner’s son ran across the street to attack them. She finally agreed to file a report, but that might have been to shut me up because she’s a “dog lover” and didn't want to get someone in trouble for what their dog didn’t finish doing.

I always root for cars vs pit bulls. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by ImissWallyPryor

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I was dumbing it down for you.  Note: you was spelled ya.

Regarding the bold, yeah, we already figured that part out.  

‘Too’ was spelled ‘to’. I’m going to assume you’re a pit bull advocate and treat you accordingly. 

[Nivek 16,688]

4 minutes ago, Porterhouse said:

‘Too’ was spelled ‘to’. I’m going to assume you’re a pit bull advocate and treat you accordingly. 

Uphaullinly stupid u r.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,765]

24 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

My daughter and her friend (no pics) were walking her dog in her new neighborhood recently, and a young male pit bull ran across 4 lanes of traffic and started to attack her dog. She ended up falling backwards on a small slope while pulling her dog away. The pit heard it’s owner whistling outside the back door and ran back across the street, almost getting hit by cars. She was fucking lucky the dog was young and fixed.

I practically had to force her fiancé to go talk to that neighbor, with or without my daughter. They had just moved in, and the owner didn’t even realize what had transpired. He said the owner was very apologetic, so I guess that made it A-okay. I kept telling her to file a police report so they would at least have something on record in case something involving this dog (or the owner) happened in the future.

She didn’t want to, so I asked her if she would file a report if the homeowner’s son ran across the street to attack them. She finally agreed to file a report, but that might have been to shut me up because she’s a “dog lover” and didn't want to get someone in trouble for what their dog didn’t finish doing.

I always root for cars vs pit bulls. 

Being a dog lover has nothing to do with putting up with irresponsible owners.  Fuck people who let their dogs roam around freely.  Also, there is no way that fuckstick didn't know his dog was aggressive, so fuck him doubly for letting it roam around freely.  That douchebag's apology was nothing more than a way to get out of a police report and a possible lawsuit.  He should have been told where to stick his apology.  Someone would be doing that dog a favor to get it taken away from him.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Uphaullinly stupid u r.

Did I miss a hilarious joke?  Fail to read a very quick Nivek “I hate pits” post on the last page?  If so, my apologies. Until then, you’re basically Drew, Greenspoint or Derka to me. 

36 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Being a dog lover has nothing to do with putting up with irresponsible owners.  Fuck people who let their dogs roam around freely.  Also, there is no way that fuckstick didn't know his dog was aggressive, so fuck him doubly for letting it roam around freely.  That douchebag's apology was nothing more than a way to get out of a police report and a possible lawsuit.  He should have been told where to stick his apology.  Someone would be doing that dog a favor to get it taken away from him.

Letting your pit roam around freely is much, much different than my Golden or Lab inadvertently escaping the backyard. Totally agreed on report filing. If there was a pit in my neighborhood (there’s not) I’d make shit up in reports until the dog is ultimately removed. 

[ImissWallyPryor 9,044]

On 2/22/2023 at 3:59 PM, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Being a dog lover has nothing to do with putting up with irresponsible owners.  Fuck people who let their dogs roam around freely.  Also, there is no way that fuckstick didn't know his dog was aggressive, so fuck him doubly for letting it roam around freely.  That douchebag's apology was nothing more than a way to get out of a police report and a possible lawsuit.  He should have been told where to stick his apology.  Someone would be doing that dog a favor to get it taken away from him.

There’s more to the story. Her fiancé is from a fairly well-off family in Colorado, but they have an older rescue pit that they think is just precious. This is in spite of it going Mr. Hyde on her dog for merely sniffing at a chew toy. It took her fiancé and his brother (CFB players, but white lol), to pull the dog off. Her dog is stout, but no match for a pit bull. She knows how we feel about pit bulls, so she’s trying to avoid stirring the pot. Their pit will be dead by the time she starts having kids. Her fiancé’s family has the “not my pit bull” attitude. She’s made it clear to him that their kids will not be around pit bulls, so the fact that they want their next dog to be a bird dog is a saving grace.

Regarding the owner of the pit that attacked her and her dog, the gate to their back yard was open, so she kind of believes his story. He wasn’t wearing a wife beater or anything like that when they went to talk to him.

Edited February 28, 2023 by ImissWallyPryor

[closetohumping 17,302]

14 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

There’s more to the story. Her fiancé is from a fairly well-off family in Colorado, but they have an older rescue pit that they think is just precious. This is in spite of it going Mr. Hyde on her dog for sniffing at a chew toy. It took her fiancé and his brother (CFB players, but white lol), to pull the dog off. Her dog is stout, but not as aggressive as a pit bull. She knows how we feel about pit bulls, so she’s trying to avoid stirring the pot. Their pit will be dead by the time she starts having kids. Her fiancé’s family has the “not my pit bull” attitude. She’s made it clear to him that their kids will not be around pit bulls, so the fact that they want their next dog to be a bird dog is a saving grace.

Regarding the owner of the pit that attacked her and her dog, the gate to their back yard was open, so she kind of believes his story. He wasn’t wearing a wife beater or anything like that when they went to talk to him.

Honestly don't get the obsession with that breed.  Get another breed, is it that big of a deal.  

 

My sister has one.  I love her dearly but I will not let my kids alone with it.  Seems friendly though but as it's been documented in here, they can flip like a switch.  You only have to be wrong once.  

[ImissWallyPryor 9,044]

2 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Honestly don't get the obsession with that breed.  Get another breed, is it that big of a deal.

I think 90% of the owners either identify as being maligned/misunderstood/rejected, just like their pit bulls, or they want to project an image of badassery. I don’t know what motivates the other 10%. I should ask our future Colorado in-laws.

Edited February 23, 2023 by ImissWallyPryor

[Gene Parmesan 3,953]

1 minute ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I think 90% of the owners either identify as being maligned and misunderstood, just like their pit bulls, or they want to project an image of badassery. I don’t know what motivates the other 10%. I should ask our future Colorado in-laws.

Pit and pit mixes also make up a ton of shelter dogs as well, and adopting a dog is a pretty strong message being streamed at anyone looking to become a dog owner.  

[BabaYaga 15,184]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:27 AM, Nivek said:

Dogs/Wolves being pack hunters are really not great at a straight attack.  Once a man gets his hands on the dog, he can pretty much do whatever he wants to it.  We have the ability to grab and leverage our weight/strengths fairly easily against a canine.  There was the guy who punted a not-so-wiley coyote with a simple straight kick to its face.  

Still drunk I see.  Good times....

[ImissWallyPryor 9,044]

53 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Pit and pit mixes also make up a ton of shelter dogs as well, and adopting a dog is a pretty strong message being streamed at anyone looking to become a dog owner.  

You’re right, but there are always other dogs in the shelter. Imagine being a gentle mutt and seeing that pit dog bully getting adopted before you. That would be a huge blow to your self esteem. 

[gyroprotagonist 2,591]

need more discussion of wolf pack attack tactics and the limitations of pack animals in 1v1 fights against bipedal meat bags.  Shirley there is a dissertation written about this

[BabaYaga 15,184]

20 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

My daughter and her friend (no pics) were walking her dog in her new neighborhood recently, and a young male pit bull ran across 4 lanes of traffic and started to attack her dog. She ended up falling backwards on a small slope while pulling her dog away. The pit heard it’s owner whistling outside the back door and ran back across the street, almost getting hit by cars. She was fucking lucky the dog was young and fixed.

I practically had to force her fiancé to go talk to that neighbor, with or without my daughter. The owner had just moved in, and he didn’t even realize what had transpired. Her fiancé said the owner was very apologetic, so I guess that made it A-okay. I kept telling her to file a police report so they would at least have something on record in case this dog (or the owner) are involved in another he incident in the future.

She didn’t want to, so I asked her if she would file a report if the homeowner’s son ran across the street to attack them. She finally agreed to file a report, but that might have been to shut me up because she’s a “dog lover” and didn't want to get someone in trouble for what their dog didn’t finish doing.

I always root for cars vs pit bulls. 

We have three rescues.  Two terrier mutts and a poodle-something mutt that is the smartest dog I've ever had.  I do field training with her and were the neighborhood empty, walking off a leash is easy.  At the ranch she never strays too far and responds to voice/whistle commands.

ANY dog attacking, pit or otherwise will get a brief period to back down, then they are getting introduced to 147gr Speer gold dots to the face.  

Play stupid prizes.....

[SHOOTER12 8,769]

4 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

We have three rescues.  Two terrier mutts and a poodle-something mutt that is the smartest dog I've ever had.  I do field training with her and were the neighborhood empty, walking off a leash is easy.  At the ranch she never strays too far and responds to voice/whistle commands.

ANY dog attacking, pit or otherwise will get a brief period to back down, then they are getting introduced to 147gr Speer gold dots to the face.  

Play stupid prizes.....

Agree on the brief period to back down. Several years ago ee had a pit come just inside our gate growling and barking. Granted,  our gate is about 60 yards from the house, but I  found this strange and highly aggressive considering the distance. I  went back in the house for a minute figuring it would go on. Nope, just kept creeping closer to the house. So I went and t

retrieved my AR and went back on the porch and fired a warning shot by his front that only pissed it off(30 yds.) Next shot, no warning, right between the eyes. Fuck pits.

[bluto 4,819]

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