Texas Cowboy needs thoughts, prayers, and support

[DDD Dad 14347]

Asked my son about this last night (the hazing aspect).  He said that the boys who drove back that morning had been urged not to, and that the rest of the group had spent the night. The boy driving hadn't been drinking but had not slept.  Apparently the ones who went back had some sort of job interview or some other thing they felt they needed to get back early for.  

 

[babysdaddy 2728]

I'm sure Hellraiser will be here shortly to melt the fuck down over this 'hazing'.  Sad deal but this does not seem to implicate the Cowboys need to be kicked off campus forever.  

 

 

[Captain Ron 12908]

Maybe they are getting their story straight?

I'm not yet ready to take it on face value that this was one guy that was just driving back when everyone else said not to. I will let the process play out, hopefully we will get the truth out when everything comes out.

[DanRydell 799]

I'm sure Hellraiser will be here shortly to melt the fuck down over this 'hazing'.  Sad deal but this does not seem to implicate the Cowboys need to be kicked off campus forever.  
 
 

Because one anonymous internet poster said so purportedly based on second (if not third or fourth hand) information from his son?

[babysdaddy 2728]

Because one anonymous internet poster said so purportedly based on second (if not third or fourth hand) information from his son?

He isn’t random to me. And he’s not the type to brush off something like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[texashorne 1178]

Anything is hazing.. Sweeping the floor of the house is hazing. Driving an active member to class is hazing. Decorating for a party is hazing. Any instance where a pledge is told what to do... whether its a daytime scavenger hunt or chugging a vodka & copenhagen cocktail out of a felt cowboy hat, is hazing.

Because the rules are being broken no matter what, possibly it worth considering defining what's accepted/legal and what's not..  

 

[Lat22 4015]

4 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

I felt the tone of your post was inconsiderate and so I simply pointed out an inference I had drawn from it.

It was very inconsiderate. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21920]

I would even say rude, but would need pics to be sure

[El Diablo 4232]

This thread makes me want to throw out the phrase "chaps my ass" but I'm not sure how to work it into the conversation.

[babysdaddy 2728]

51 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

This thread makes me want to throw out the phrase "chaps my ass" but I'm not sure how to work it into the conversation.

Lemme try....."Every time a Hellraiser is shown on tv as a representation of UT fans really chaps my ass"

[Nice Guy Eddie 13523]

9 hours ago, Tylerocks said:

Who said the family set up the Gofundme? 

Maybe a friend of his set it up....seeing as college kids are more apt to use the platform.  Maybe it's a small gesture for other people to be able to help a family out in their worst imaginable time??

Appears the victim’s sister or a friend of hers set it up.  The family may not need the money but maybe the friend or sister was just trying to find someway to help.  It seems to be a common move that the first thing in a tragedy is to set up a gofundme page before the financial need is even fully understood.  

There are other families that may have more dire financial problems and that money could help them more, but people have a right (obviously) to donate to whomever they want.  If the family doesn’t need the money hopefully they will return it or donate it to a good cause.  

[C-Man 27254]

6 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Appears the victim’s sister or a friend of hers set it up.  The family may not need the money but maybe the friend or sister was just trying to find someway to help.  It seems to be a common move that the first thing in a tragedy is to set up a gofundme page before the financial need is even fully understood.  

There are other families that may have more dire financial problems and that money could help them more, but people have a right (obviously) to donate to whomever they want.  If the family doesn’t need the money hopefully they will return it or donate it to a good cause.  

[DalTxHornFan 3116]

More details about alleged hazing at the Texas Cowboys event preceding the fatal car crash (the gerbil incident is an interesting detail):

Texas Cowboys event included paddling, animal abuse, says family of student who died after wreck

https://www.statesman.com/news/20181213/texas-cowboys-event-included-paddling-animal-abuse-says-family-of-student-who-died-after-wreck

[TwiceHorn 31533]

You don't need money to lawyer up for a case like this.

I suspect that someone else set up the gofundme. 

And I'm pretty sure the ACA does not provide for long term care, that is a different issue from treating injuries and the like. 

[TwiceHorn 31533]

2 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

More details about alleged hazing at the Texas Cowboys event preceding the fatal car crash (the gerbil incident is an interesting detail):

Texas Cowboys event included paddling, animal abuse, says family of student who died after wreck

https://www.statesman.com/news/20181213/texas-cowboys-event-included-paddling-animal-abuse-says-family-of-student-who-died-after-wreck

They are gonna burn.  The more things change, the more they stay the same. 

[RDCanecutter 26466]

The Texas Cowboys sound very aggy.

[DalTxHornFan 3116]

43 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

They are gonna burn.  The more things change, the more they stay the same. 

It's a shame that the young man died.  As I said above, correlation does not imply causation.  Regardless of what went on at the ranch outing, the Cowboys did not cause this unfortunate accident.

Further - the new article has an additional wrinkle -- the deceased wasn't wearing a seatbelt and was thrown from the truck when the driver fell asleep and rolled the truck over, thus receiving his fatal injuries.  I"m at the point where I have little patience or sympathy for adults who don't even go to the trouble of wearing a seatbelt and suffer the foreseeable consequences of that decision.  I'm pretty sure that his failure to wear a seatbelt will factor in to any contributory negligence defense.

That said your overall conclusion of "They are gonna burn." is probably correct, not from the civil side of this accident as Cowboys and the driver likely have insurance sufficient to resolve a wrongful death claim (particularly given the negligence of the driver and the deceased), but rather from the hazing issues that the accident exposed.  I don't foresee criminal charges resulting from the hazing investigation, but I think it is highly likely that they will get permanently dissolved or totally banned from campus for a very long time. 

TLDR:  Goodbye to Smokey the Cannon.

[Player 4576]

Forcing the new guys to take their own cars, instead of allowing them to ride on the chartered bus is going to be devastating if a jury hears it. So stupid and unnecessary.

[TwiceHorn 31533]

43 minutes ago, DalTxHornFan said:

It's a shame that the young man died.  As I said above, correlation does not imply causation.  Regardless of what went on at the ranch outing, the Cowboys did not cause this unfortunate accident.

Further - the new article has an additional wrinkle -- the deceased wasn't wearing a seatbelt and was thrown from the truck when the driver fell asleep and rolled the truck over, thus receiving his fatal injuries.  I"m at the point where I have little patience or sympathy for adults who don't even go to the trouble of wearing a seatbelt and suffer the foreseeable consequences of that decision.  I'm pretty sure that his failure to wear a seatbelt will factor in to any contributory negligence defense.

That said your overall conclusion of "They are gonna burn." is probably correct, not from the civil side of this accident as Cowboys and the driver likely have insurance sufficient to resolve a wrongful death claim (particularly given the negligence of the driver and the deceased), but rather from the hazing issues that the accident exposed.  I don't foresee criminal charges resulting from the hazing investigation, but I think it is highly likely that they will get permanently dissolved or totally banned from campus for a very long time. 

TLDR:  Goodbye to Smokey the Cannon.

Yeah the causal link between the misbehavior and hazing and the death is pretty small. But, as noted above, making the new men drive is probably enough to hang a substantial verdict on. And glaring idiocy. 

[DalTxHornFan 3116]

7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah the causal link between the misbehavior and hazing and the death is pretty small. But, as noted above, making the new men drive is probably enough to hang a substantial verdict on. And glaring idiocy. 

True enough.  And the way that "the family" is playing this out in the media tells me that there is a publicity savvy wrongful death attorney pulling the strings from behind the scenes and banking on putting up a big number.

[Bama Chick 28596]

True enough.  And the way that "the family" is playing this out in the media tells me that there is a publicity savvy wrongful death attorney pulling the strings from behind the scenes and banking on putting up a big number.

Why did you put the family in quotes?

And why would you have a problem with his family making all the facts known if they believe this group’s behavior led to the death of their son? If my child was considering joining this organization, I would want to know that information. Maybe the family feels like trying to make sure they protect other students would be something positive they could do.

And doesn’t Texas have caps on jury awards on punitive damages? And since a lot of awards are based on economic loss and the victim was a college student, won’t that be a disadvantage for the plaintiffs?

I think it’s pretty cynical to assume all the family’s actions are being driven by some lawyer and by the possibility of getting a bunch of money.

It’s just as easy to assume they want to prevent other students from getting hurt or dying and to put an end to the organization.

[DalTxHornFan 3116]

Bama Chick -- Thanks for your comments.  I freely admit to being a cynic.  I think that ginning up negative publicity that is only remotely related to the accident and/or the actions of the Texas Cowboys organization or the potential liability of the Texas Cowboys organization is a typical strategy of the trial bar.  YMMV.

As to economic damages -- the legal measure in this instance is the decedent's loss of future earnings capacity.  He was obviously a healthy, bright kid with long life expectancy at the time of the accident.  Combine that with him being a HS class valedictorian, any stated career or vocational goals, and depending upon his college major and his grades to date, I have no doubt that a qualified economist could credibly establish a substantial claim for his loss of earnings capacity.

Edited December 14, 2018 by DalTxHornFan

[Netzer 157]

8 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

https://www.statesman.com/news/20181213/texas-cowboys-event-included-paddling-animal-abuse-says-family-of-student-who-died-after-wreck

"... another new member of the group bit off the head of a live hamster at the urging of older members."

Wouldn't be surprised if the hamster's head stuck out of a senior member's anus at the time.

On 11/22/2018 at 1:54 AM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Appears the victim’s sister or a friend of hers set it up.  The family may not need the money but maybe the friend or sister was just trying to find someway to help.  It seems to be a common move that the first thing in a tragedy is to set up a gofundme page before the financial need is even fully understood.  

There are other families that may have more dire financial problems and that money could help them more, but people have a right (obviously) to donate to whomever they want.  If the family doesn’t need the money hopefully they will return it or donate it to a good cause.  

Sure, people have the right to donate to whomever they want. If friends of the family feel like that, they're free to do so in private.

However, once you ask for donations from strangers via a public platform like GoFundMe (even included in the original news article), then you better be transparent about the beneficiary's true financial situation and indigence. Otherwise your own egoistic greed and shortsightedness will undermine the trustworthiness and credibility of the platform in question. Once people find out that they've been donating their hard-earned money to a bunch of millionaires, they'll be understandably miffed. Which will impact their prospective willingness to donate in cases of actual destitution.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Netzer

[4th and 5 4915]

Is use or fail to use a seatbelt admissible in a civil trial? I know it used to be inadmissible. Not sure if it still is.

if the kid chose to drove home to attend to some business of his own, and others decided to go with him, causation is going to be pretty weak. Even more so if the driver was not intoxicated. 

[phdhorn 6224]

Those guys are fuckholes, all of them.  Fuck them.  Fuck the Cowboys.

[4th and 5 4915]

1 hour ago, 4th and 5 said:

Is use or fail to use a seatbelt admissible in a civil trial? I know it used to be inadmissible. Not sure if it still is.

if the kid chose to drove home to attend to some business of his own, and others decided to go with him, causation is going to be pretty weak. Even more so if the driver was not intoxicated. 

well, allow me to retort.....

 

456 S.W.3d 553 (2015)

NABORS WELL SERVICES, LTD. f/k/a Pool Company Texas, Ltd. and Lauro Bernal Garcia, Petitioners,
v.
Asuncion ROMERO, Individually and as Representative of the Estate of Aydee Romero, Deceased, and as Next Friend of Edgar Romero and Saul Romero; Esperanza Soto, Individually and as Next Friend of Esperanza Soto, Guadalupe Soto, Maria Elena Soto; and Martin Soto, Respondents.

No. 13-0136.

Supreme Court of Texas.

Argued October 9, 2014. OPINION DELIVERED: February 13, 2015.

Mauro Fernando Ruiz, Ruiz Law Firm, McAllen, TX, for Respondent Martin Soto.

Richard J. Plezia, Richard J. Plezia & Associates, Houston, TX, Peter M. Kelly, Kelly, Durham & Pittard, L.L.P., Houston, TX, Jeffrey R. Vaughan, Clark, Love & Hutson, Houston, TX, for Respondent Asuncion Romero.

Anna Meredith Baker, Amy Warr, Alexander Dubose Jefferson & Townsend LLP, Austin, TX, Roger D. Townsend, Alexander Dubose Jefferson & Townsend, Houston, TX, David Wayne Lauritzen, W. Bruce Williams, Cotton Bledsoe Tighe & Dawson PC, Midland, TX, for Petitioner Nabors Well Services, Ltd.

John Blaise Gsanger, The Edwards Law Firm, Corpus Christi, TX, for Amicus Curiae Texas Trial Lawyers Association.

Scott Alan James, Shook Hardy & Bacon LLP, Houston, TX, for Amicus Curiae Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers.

Ruth G. Malinas, Plunkett & Griesenbeck, Inc., San Antonio, TX, for Amicus Curiae Texas Association of Defense Counsel.

Justice Brown delivered the opinion of the Court.

For more than forty years evidence of a plaintiff's failure to use a seat belt has been inadmissible in car-accident cases. That rule, which this Court first announced in 1974, offered plaintiffs safe harbor from the harshness of an all-or-nothing scheme that barred recovery for even the slightest contributory negligence. Moreover, the Court reasoned that although a plaintiff's failure to use a seat belt may exacerbate his injuries, it cannot cause a car accident, and therefore should not affect a plaintiff's recovery.

In 1985 the Legislature jumped in to statutorily prohibit evidence of use or non-use of seat belts in all civil cases. It repealed that law in 2003, leaving our rule to again stand alone. But much has changed in the past four decades. The Legislature has overhauled Texas's system for apportioning fault in negligence cases—a plaintiff's negligence can now be apportioned alongside a defendant's without entirely barring the plaintiff's recovery. And unlike in 1974, seat belts are now required by law and have become an unquestioned part of daily life for the vast majority of drivers and passengers.

These changes have rendered our prohibition on seat-belt evidence an anachronism. The rule may have been appropriate in its time, but today it is a vestige of a bygone legal system and an oddity in light of modern societal norms. Today we overrule it and hold that relevant evidence of use or nonuse of seat belts is admissible for the purpose of apportioning responsibility in civil lawsuits.

[Caddox 952]

They made the choice to leave when they were asked not to. The kid who died made the choice not to wear his seatbelt. The kid driving had a BAC level of 0.0.

Anyone trying to blame the Cowboys for this can suck a fat dick. Hilarious seeing a hellraiser (as embarrassing as anything going at aggy) calling for their heads. 

[next2naus 439]

On 11/19/2018 at 5:56 PM, phdhorn said:

My son was saying a few weeks ago that he was either invited informally or came across a chance or something (not sure how it works) to join the Cowboys next year.

I told him if he did, I would pull his funding for school.

I don't think he is now.

he could have cultivated some good contacts and networks for post grad jobs and had some fun, to each his own

Edited December 14, 2018 by next2naus

[HouTex 1890]

Did some of you actually know any Texas Cowboys when you were in school?  Did one of them steal your girlfriend?  The ones I knew and now know were and are great guys.  I'm sure there are some assholes in the bunch, just as there are assholes in every organization.  

Seems to me the hazing didn't cause the student's tragic death, but let's finish the investigation.  And, if it's true, the hamster thing is disgusting, but big fucking deal about the paddling.  I got paddled in middle school by coaches, teachers and the assistant principal and it left whelps.  My big brother in the frat and I traded licks all the time when we had a few too many.  Fun times.

[Pato del Muerto 52572]

I did. Neighboring apartment. Would have been 99-00 so just coming off their suspension.  Nice guy, huge pothead. Got a banking job in San Antonio. 

[Caddox 952]

On 11/19/2018 at 4:56 PM, phdhorn said:

My son was saying a few weeks ago that he was either invited informally or came across a chance or something (not sure how it works) to join the Cowboys next year.

I told him if he did, I would pull his funding for school.

I don't think he is now.

You've done your son a real disservice. It's probably difficult to understand the doors it likely would open for him if you're this unfamiliar with the organization, but if he's actually lucky enough to be selected it will be one of the best decisions he could make. Wonderful organization with an actual commitment to serving the community and especially the University. And if you're actually that scared of junior getting paddled you certainly don't have to worry about it anymore.  

[Caddox 952]

On 11/20/2018 at 12:33 PM, DDD Dad said:

I’m just sad.

Very relieved my son chose not to join them.

I get the anger and feel absolutely horrible for his parents.

Well you either have to be selected in your fraternity or you have to go through a long interview process with an alumni board to even get invited. Are you telling me your son fell into one of those two categories and in the end turned it down?

[CooterBrown 18024]

59 minutes ago, HouTex said:

My big brother in the frat and I traded licks all the time when we had a few too many.  Fun times.

Just a little S&M play at the frat house is no big deal. 

[DDD Dad 14347]

36 minutes ago, Caddox said:

Well you either have to be selected in your fraternity or you have to go through a long interview process with an alumni board to even get invited. Are you telling me your son fell into one of those two categories and in the end turned it down?

If I recall correctly he was approached through his fraternity but indicated he wasn't interested.  

[phdhorn 6224]

1 hour ago, Caddox said:

You've done your son a real disservice. It's probably difficult to understand the doors it likely would open for him if you're this unfamiliar with the organization, but if he's actually lucky enough to be selected it will be one of the best decisions he could make. Wonderful organization with an actual commitment to serving the community and especially the University. And if you're actually that scared of junior getting paddled you certainly don't have to worry about it anymore.  

LOL, if it was "junior getting paddled" that's one thing.  This shit is far, far, far above that - and it's well-known among campus circles.  While mulling it he's said that without question the Cowboys are among the worst hazers of any organization, which he isn't excited about.  No one is scared of "paddling."  I'm "scared" that some asshole is going to require him to get blackout drunk or like get tired and shitfaced then ordered to drive home.  Yeah, any parent who isn't "scared" of that is a fucking idiot.  You can tell me that level of hazing is bullshit but it's the lamest, most weak ass cover going.  I saw enough (and heard enough) as a faculty there about that level of hazing in various groups enough to know that they might do Mother Teresa shit at times, but he can find a lot of organizations that do it as well without the dangerous shit as well.

 

[phdhorn 6224]

1 hour ago, next2naus said:

he could have cultivated some good contacts and networks for post grad jobs and had some fun, to each his own

Possibly, but he's getting them now without needing the Cowboys (or other groups that haze).  It's actually possible.

[Brisketexan 105288]

I was in a fraternity.  I knew there would be stupid shit, hazing, etc. (especially because the definition of "hazing" is so broad that requiring pledges to attend mandatory study hours is technically hazing).

Make us do ridiculous shit, sing stupid stuff, etc.?  Who cares.  But I had some simple boundaries.  If you want me to touch another dude's junk, or anyone tries to touch my junk, that ain't happening (and why the fuck would I want to be a member of a group that would do that anyway?).  If you want me to genuinely hurt myself, another person, or an animal, fuck you you sick fuck.  No touching anyone's dick, and no hurting someone or putting them in danger.  Hell, even to the extent that we drank a whole bunch, we at least gave SOME thought to not having folks in a position to drive.

The fact that there are folks who go ACROSS that line is mind boggling to me.

Edited December 14, 2018 by Brisketexan

[Nice Guy Eddie 13523]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I was in a fraternity.  I knew there would be stupid shit, hazing, etc. (especially because the definition of "hazing" is so broad that requiring pledges to attend mandatory study hours is technically hazing).

Make us do ridiculous shit, sing stupid stuff, etc.?  Who cares.  But I had some simple boundaries.  If you want me to touch another dude's junk, or anyone tries to touch my junk, that ain't happening (and why the fuck would I want to be a member of a group that would do that anyway?).  If you want me to genuinely hurt myself, another person, or an animal, fuck you you sick fuck.  No touching anyone's dick, and no hurting someone or putting them in danger.  Hell, even to the extent that we drank a whole bunch, we at least gave SOME thought to not having folks in a position to drive.

The fact that there are folks who go ACROSS that line is mind boggling to me.

This.  Basically the same for me.  The one real regret that I have, similar to this story, was that I was driving in the middle of nowhere at 6am one morning after staying up all night.   I barely had anything to drink but was dozing off.  I had to pull over to let someone else drive.    Lucky I didn't kill myself and others.  Not smart.

[Brisketexan 105288]

Just now, Nice Guy Eddie said:

This.  Basically the same for me.  The one real regret that I have, similar to this story, was that I was driving in the middle of nowhere at 6am one morning after staying up all night.   I barely had anything to drink but was dozing off.  I had to pull over to let someone else drive.    Lucky I didn't kill myself and others.  Not smart.

I did that, but it was totally unrelated to hazing or the fraternity.  I liked to duck and goose hunt, and had a buddy with a place in Eagle Lake.  There were plenty of occasions where, during the evening's festivities, we decided to make a hunt the next morning.  So, we'd hit the road by 2:00 a.m. to get there in time to set up dekes and hunt.  And, on occasion, we did it on a weekday, and sometimes one of us would have a class or test that day that we couldn't miss.  So, we'd load back up and head back to Austin.  Our strategy was: EVERYONE stays awake, drink lots of caffeine (both to wake you up and make you have to piss), and if it was cold, roll down the windows to keep you brisk.  It worked.  We were tired, but it worked.  I even ran in to take a test in my muddy waders once because we were running so late.

[TwiceHorn 31533]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I was in a fraternity.  I knew there would be stupid shit, hazing, etc. (especially because the definition of "hazing" is so broad that requiring pledges to attend mandatory study hours is technically hazing).

Make us do ridiculous shit, sing stupid stuff, etc.?  Who cares.  But I had some simple boundaries.  If you want me to touch another dude's junk, or anyone tries to touch my junk, that ain't happening (and why the fuck would I want to be a member of a group that would do that anyway?).  If you want me to genuinely hurt myself, another person, or an animal, fuck you you sick fuck.  No touching anyone's dick, and no hurting someone or putting them in danger.  Hell, even to the extent that we drank a whole bunch, we at least gave SOME thought to not having folks in a position to drive.

The fact that there are folks who go ACROSS that line is mind boggling to me.

Pretty much this.  Cowboys weren't known back in the 80s for anything more than really excessive paddling on two occasions, tap-in and picnic. The excessive drinking that occurred was in the nature of anesthesia. 

Cowboys and Spurs tended to be pretty good dudes, if rather meat headed. Animal abuse or homoerotic stuff was not part of the equation. 

[Caddox 952]

1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

LOL, if it was "junior getting paddled" that's one thing.  This shit is far, far, far above that - and it's well-known among campus circles.  While mulling it he's said that without question the Cowboys are among the worst hazers of any organization, which he isn't excited about.  No one is scared of "paddling."  I'm "scared" that some asshole is going to require him to get blackout drunk or like get tired and shitfaced then ordered to drive home.  Yeah, any parent who isn't "scared" of that is a fucking idiot.  You can tell me that level of hazing is bullshit but it's the lamest, most weak ass cover going.  I saw enough (and heard enough) as a faculty there about that level of hazing in various groups enough to know that they might do Mother Teresa shit at times, but he can find a lot of organizations that do it as well without the dangerous shit as well.

 

Well your son doesn't know what he's talking about at best. And now that I see you're former faculty I'm not shocked you're using bubble hyperbole to describe the horrors of hazing. Cowboys barely has any hazing left, and whatever they're calling hazing here is by the strictest (and dumbest) definition of the word. The idea that they're the worst on campus is hilarious, they aren't anywhere close. And shocker that you're accusing them of forcing people to get drunk and drive anywhere, you're a moron that cares very little about the reality of what happened. Your son's information is so far off the mark I'm starting to just think you're making stuff up. 

[Caddox 952]

47 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Pretty much this.  Cowboys weren't known back in the 80s for anything more than really excessive paddling on two occasions, tap-in and picnic. The excessive drinking that occurred was in the nature of anesthesia. 

Cowboys and Spurs tended to be pretty good dudes, if rather meat headed. Animal abuse or homoerotic stuff was not part of the equation. 

Its less now than it was back then. 

[Brisketexan 105288]

4 minutes ago, Caddox said:

Well your son doesn't know what he's talking about at best. And now that I see you're former faculty I'm not shocked you're using bubble hyperbole to describe the horrors of hazing. Cowboys barely has any hazing left, and whatever they're calling hazing here is by the strictest (and dumbest) definition of the word. The idea that they're the worst on campus is hilarious, they aren't anywhere close. And shocker that you're accusing them of forcing people to get drunk and drive anywhere, you're a moron that cares very little about the reality of what happened. Your son's information is so far off the mark I'm starting to just think you're making stuff up. 

This is a REAL specific allegation:

Quote

The family of Nicholas Cumberland said they also were told that at the retreat, another new member of the group bit off the head of a live hamster at the urging of older members.

If true, that's just some sick shit.  And yes, it's hazing.  And it's fucked up.

[Caddox 952]

That would just be stupid and I am extremely skeptical to say the least. Who knows who is saying this stuff, probably people like phdhorn. Girls and people outside of the organization make shit up about this stuff all the time. 

[Bevo 13598]

1 minute ago, Caddox said:

Its less now than it was back then. 

No more bees/prods, which btw didn't bother me one bit? But, paddling sucks for those (like me) who don't have enough meat on their backside.

[Caddox 952]

4 minutes ago, Bevo said:

No more bees/prods, which btw didn't bother me one bit? But, paddling sucks for those (like me) who don't have enough meat on their backside.

Just paddling and its all done outside of the organization in the smaller groups you're associated with. Prods haven't been around since we got back on campus. GDI's didn't do any of it, and were generally so smart they were probably studying with all their double majors plan 2 business honors stuff. Pretty soon that kind of curriculum will be considered hazing. 

[TwiceHorn 31533]

17 minutes ago, Bevo said:

No more bees/prods, which btw didn't bother me one bit? But, paddling sucks for those (like me) who don't have enough meat on their backside.

Well the free blood migrating into your scrote and down the back of your legs was kind of a bummer as well. 

 

It’s interesting and strange where these hazing traditions get started and stay so "sticky." Here and there are a few apparent actual sadists, the rest are pretty regular dudes just kind of saying "I did it, you can too." 

Edited December 14, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[DaysOff 7971]

he could have cultivated some good contacts and networks for post grad jobs and had some fun, to each his own

So it's like the aggy network. What kind of jobs are we talking here where you get your frat bro hired?

[HouTex 1890]

7 minutes ago, DaysOff said:

3 hours ago, next2naus said:

he could have cultivated some good contacts and networks for post grad jobs and had some fun, to each his own

So it's like the aggy network. What kind of jobs are we talking here where you get your frat bro hired?

Hard to answer that without sounding pompous.  They probably are not trying to get in good with the ditch digging crowd.  NTTAWWT.  You know, the world needs ditch diggers too.

[next2naus 439]

On 12/14/2018 at 2:24 PM, DaysOff said:

On 12/14/2018 at 10:56 AM, next2naus said:

he could have cultivated some good contacts and networks for post grad jobs and had some fun, to each his own

So it's like the aggy network. What kind of jobs are we talking here where you get your frat bro hired?

I'm sure you are just being what you think is funny, but if you don't understand that Fraternities and other organizations like Cowboys and Spurs can be a useful tool to get young graduates access to those who hire, influence and recommend new hires, then your woefully ignorant. 

much of life is about access and who you know.