The Battle of Mogadishu

[Blanton 170]

Was watching Black Hawk Down and realized this massive event in US History occurred today and yesterday.

I don’t want to parade war as being cool, but what those guys had to go through was simply hellish, and I believe a lot of decisions made by people in higher positions placed  them in that situation.

Regardless, I have their utmost respect...

[Parliament 14260]

I see a lot of parallels with Benghazi.  In both cases, our interests were weak and our plan was undefined and our defensive backup was non-existent.  IF and I mean IF we were gonna be there, we needed AC130 coverage.  Maybe even artillery.

Our student newspaper had this pic on their front page: 

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Kinda disrespectful to his family I think.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Parliament

[miguelito 11266]

6 hours ago, Blanton said:

Was watching Black Hawk Down and realized this massive event in US History occurred today and yesterday.

I don’t want to parade war as being cool, but what those guys had to go through was simply hellish, and I believe a lot of decisions made by people in higher positions placed  them in that situation.

Regardless, I have their utmost respect...

But do they have your respect?

[Blotto 23559]

3 hours ago, miguelito said:

But do they have your respect?

Blanton must be some kind of badass mofo.

[Blanton 170]

5 hours ago, Parliament said:

I see a lot of parallels with Benghazi.  In both cases, our interests were weak and our plan was undefined and our defensive backup was non-existent.  IF and I mean IF we were gonna be there, we needed AC130 coverage.  Maybe even artillery.

Our student newspaper had this pic on their front page: 

 

 

 

 

 

Kinda disrespectful to his family I think.

Holy shit, that’s absolutely terrible.

We kinda kicked the hornet’s nest without all the support you described. 

That’s gonna be one of the most intense battles the US military has faced since Vietnam, no?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

Those dudes that fast roped down to protect the pilot were the first MOHs winners since Vietnam.  Posthumous of course.

[RamjetFDO 10577]

Those dudes that fast roped down to protect the pilot were the first MOHs winners since Vietnam.  Posthumous of course.

Shugart and Gordon.

In addition to the MOHs, the urban combat training "town" at Ft. Polk (JRTC), Louisiana is named Shugart-Gordon.

It's a pretty complex setup... I was fortunate to see it once.

[pacman 7359]

Largest defense budget in the World by a mile, yet our soldiers are constantly screwed by our government leaders.

Edited October 5, 2018 by pacman

[F250 28783]

I remember reading about the Battle of Mogadishu on a news website that ran a  a series of detailed articles written by the guy that wrote Black Hawk Down. The articles were very in depth and accompanied by videos of the battle. This was in the late 90's and the web was still fairly new and the way they documented the battle was impressive.

That web series shined a lot of light on the Battle of Mogadishu which was treated as more of an incident up until that point.

 

 

[closetojumping 62746]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

I remember reading about the Battle of Mogadishu on a news website that ran a  a series of detailed articles written by the guy that wrote Black Hawk Down. The articles were very in depth and accompanied by videos of the battle. This was in the late 90's and the web was still fairly new and the way they documented the battle was impressive.

That web series shined a lot of light on the Battle of Mogadishu which was treated as more of an incident up until that point.

 

 

I think it’s Mark Bowden, but I am too lazy to look it up.

A few things:

1) The book is awesome. I read it and loved it before seeing the movie. 

2) The character played by Eric Bana, “Hoot”, is an amalgam of like 3/4 characters from real life. Fucking great character in the movie and a group of badasses in reality. 

3) I was working 80+ hours a week at a start-up when this came out. I heard from all of my buddies about how awesome the movie was and I had read the book. So I had to go. Late in its run, I go to a showing at Edwards Greenway in Houston after 10pm. It’s me and one couple behind me, at the top, there to watch it. Midway through the movie, in a nice theater, they start fucking. I mean, porn level noise. I turned and couldn’t help but be transfixed for a bit. Good for them, but it ruined any memory of the movie at the theater for me, but I remember them fucking quite clearly. 

4) Any time this movie is on tv and I’m scrolling, I’m watching. No fucking though. 

[F250 28783]

2 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

I think it’s Mark Bowden, but I am too lazy to look it up.

A few things:

1) The book is awesome. I read it and loved it before seeing the movie. 

2) The character played by Eric Bana, “Hoot”, is an amalgam of like 3/4 characters from real life. Fucking great character in the movie and a group of badasses in reality. 

3) I was working 80+ hours a week at a start-up when this came out. I heard from all of my buddies about how awesome the movie was and I had read the book. So I had to go. Late in its run, I go to a showing at Edwards Greenway in Houston after 10pm. It’s me and one couple behind me, at the top, there to watch it. Midway through the movie, in a nice theater, they start fucking. I mean, porn level noise. I turned and couldn’t help but be transfixed for a bit. Good for them, but it ruined any memory of the movie at the theater for me, but I remember them fucking quite clearly. 

4) Any time this movie is on tv and I’m scrolling, I’m watching. No fucking though. 

Damn, this post shifted gears fast.

 

[Macanudo 12989]

32 minutes ago, F250 said:

Damn, this post shifted gears fast.

 

It fucks.

[TwiceHorn 31496]

Yeah, I read the book first.  That scene with CPL Jamie Smith shot in the leg always gives me the willies.

Spoiler

For those that didn't read the book (it wasn't made explicitly clear in the film), he was shot in the leg and his femoral artery was severed near the pelvis.  It kept pulling back up inside him so they couldn't hemostat it.  They kept digging for it, clamping it, then having it suck back up.  Fuck just typing this makes me kinda ill.

 

Bana and Fichtner's "operators" were two of the coolest characters in the history of film.

 

It's really a shame that we sacrificed all those men in such a feckless, aimless little action.

Edited October 5, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[closetojumping 62746]

8 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, I read the book first.  That scene with CPL Jamie Smith shot in the leg always gives me the willies.

  Reveal hidden contents

For those that didn't read the book (it wasn't made explicitly clear in the film), he was shot in the leg and his femoral artery was severed near the pelvis.  It kept pulling back up inside him so they couldn't hemostat it.  They kept digging for it, clamping it, then having it suck back up.  Fuck just typing this makes me kinda ill.

 

Bana and Fichtner's "operators" were two of the coolest characters in the history of film.

 

It's really a shame that we sacrificed all those men in such a feckless, aimless little action.

Of course as a man, most of my life plays as a movie in my head as it is unfolding. It’s pretty crazy how often I think of Hoot when I’m thinking about what I’m doing or saying next in business or whatever lame absurdity is in my frame of reference. Not daily, but often enough. He is a fucking great character if you’re into shows like this. The scene at the end, when he’s getting food next to Hartnett’s character, is pretty powerful. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 hours ago, closetojumping said:

3) I was working 80+ hours a week at a start-up when this came out. I heard from all of my buddies about how awesome the movie was and I had read the book. So I had to go. Late in its run, I go to a showing at Edwards Greenway in Houston after 10pm. It’s me and one couple behind me, at the top, there to watch it. Midway through the movie, in a nice theater, they start fucking. I mean, porn level noise. I turned and couldn’t help but be transfixed for a bit. Good for them, but it ruined any memory of the movie at the theater for me, but I remember them fucking quite clearly. 

Did you clean up your seat of any sticky residue before you left ?

 

[Parliament 14260]

They changed quite a bit of the story for the movie (like the rocket launcher scene) but I'll allow it.  Movie is great.  Book is better.

BHD was one of the first war movies to follow Saving Private Ryan that was a "real" movie.  They worked hard to make all of the action scenes as realistic as possible.  No Rambo action. 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Blanton said:

Holy shit, that’s absolutely terrible.

We kinda kicked the hornet’s nest without all the support you described. 

That’s gonna be one of the most intense battles the US military has faced since Vietnam, no?

It’s all intense when the rounds are coming at YOU.

Anbar Province 

2nd Battle of Fallujah

Kamdesh

among others...

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

just realized that Gordon, the Medal of Honor winner, is played by Jaime Lannister.

[El Diablo 4232]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

It’s all intense when the rounds are coming at YOU.

Anbar Province 

2nd Battle of Fallujah

Kamdesh

among others...

Fallujah was pretty much house to house. Clear one and move to the next one. This was what I was told by a Marine who was there. Some sectors of the city were no big deal and others were a fucking nightmare with booby-traps and ambushes.

[Assman 1830]

I've been to Mogadishu several times, and what the movie doesn't accurately portray is how close the airfield and the city are.  In the movie, it takes the helos a solid 5-10 minutes to get from the airfield to Bakaara Market.  In real life, this is a 30 sec helo ride.  The city is right fucking there.  A dude with an AK-47 on top of a downtown building could take out people at the airfield.  It's really amazing we didn't lose more people there.

[Radical Larry 28643]

On 10/5/2018 at 9:17 AM, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

just realized that Gordon, the Medal of Honor winner, is played by Jaime Lannister.

Yeah, and Twombly is played by Tom Hardy. 

 

[Homercles 10206]

Yeah, I read the book first.  That scene with CPL Jamie Smith shot in the leg always gives me the willies.
Spoiler For those that didn't read the book (it wasn't made explicitly clear in the film), he was shot in the leg and his femoral artery was severed near the pelvis.  It kept pulling back up inside him so they couldn't hemostat it.  They kept digging for it, clamping it, then having it suck back up.  Fuck just typing this makes me kinda ill.
 
Bana and Fichtner's "operators" were two of the coolest characters in the history of film.
 
It's really a shame that we sacrificed all those men in such a feckless, aimless little action.

I’ve read the book a few times, but the ‘safety’ bit is covered in No Easy Day which gives a DEVGRU Seal’s perspective who was there assisting the CIA...if I recall it was mostly bs as shown in the movie, an operator there accidentally let loose a round in the hangar and was immediately sent home with potential to be outed completely, the author recalls the instant look of horror on the guys face as he realized what was coming.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

12 hours ago, Assman said:

I've been to Mogadishu several times, and what the movie doesn't accurately portray is how close the airfield and the city are.  In the movie, it takes the helos a solid 5-10 minutes to get from the airfield to Bakaara Market.  In real life, this is a 30 sec helo ride.  The city is right fucking there.  A dude with an AK-47 on top of a downtown building could take out people at the airfield.  It's really amazing we didn't lose more people there.

You aren’t making good use of your time share. A good lawyer could help, but it won’t be cheap. 

[Eastwood 4394]

14 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

Yeah, and Twombly is played by Tom Hardy. 

 

Modern Family conveniently leaves out the portion of Phil Dunphy's past as a combat medic during Gothic Serpent.

 

This movie holds a special place with me because I was living on Ft. Benning when this happened. My stepdad was a combat medic with the 75th Ranger Regiment. My family knew a lot of the Rangers involved. After the bodies being dragged through the street was shown on the news, my stepdad packed his shit and sat by the phone waiting for them to call him and ship him over to help finish the fight. We pulled out, instead. It felt like the base was on fire for a while after that.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Eastwood

[MissingInAction 25107]

One of my drill Sgts in basic, a pathfinder, was there. Found this out one night when i had CQ, and he rolled in drunk as hell around 2am. He sat behind the desk with me for about an hour talking about the friends he lost then I made sure he got to his bunk before roll call. That bad mother fucker showed up at 430 am for formation not looking like he'd had a drop, and started yelling at us as we started our morning run.

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

Friends/guys I served with, were there.

Luckily, they all made it out. They all received at least Bronze Stars. One was awarded a Silver Star and and another an Air Force Cross. A few received Purple Hearts. Some got left behind and were not so enthusiastic about competing in the first running of the "Mogadishu Mile". The Silver Star recipient died within the last year due to complications (PTSD) from the battle.

Sgt. Casey Joyce (Ranger) who was KIA, had a sister who used to work at Brackenridge ER as an RN. Not sure if she is still with Seton or not.

[Jkwellborn 6709]

I’ve read the book a few times, but the ‘safety’ bit is covered in No Easy Day which gives a DEVGRU Seal’s perspective who was there assisting the CIA...if I recall it was mostly bs as shown in the movie, an operator there accidentally let loose a round in the hangar and was immediately sent home with potential to be outed completely, the author recalls the instant look of horror on the guys face as he realized what was coming.

Wasden’s book right? I’ve read the same thing.

Shugart and Gordon were fucking badasses of the highest level.

It’s a good movie, I like Hoot.

[Homercles 10206]

Wasden’s book right? I’ve read the same thing.

Shugart and Gordon were fucking badasses of the highest level.

It’s a good movie, I like Hoot.

I goofed, definitely referring to Wasdins book but it was called SEAL Team Six. No Easy Day was by a guy who was part of Neptune Spear. My bad.

I’ve read probably a dozen books by/about SEALs over the years and Wasdins is one of my favorite...there’s a humility there that some lack.

Here’s the passage:

Unfortunately, Delta also had their second accidental discharge (AD). An operator from one of the best fighting units on the planet accidentally fired his weapon in the hangar. He could’ve killed someone. I remember seeing the look on the operator’s face afterward—he knew what was coming. Garrison and others were irate. Even though the operator had trained most of his career to put his gun in a fight, now he had to pack up his gun and leave. His military record would suffer, too. Whether Delta Force or SEAL Team Six, an AD meant a quick trip back to the States. Although we could endure physical pain and suffering, being ostracized from the group was often the heaviest punishment—as I would personally find out later.

[Jkwellborn 6709]

His part in the battle was wild. He got his ass shot up.

[Blanton 170]

On 10/6/2018 at 11:42 PM, Assman said:

I've been to Mogadishu several times, and what the movie doesn't accurately portray is how close the airfield and the city are.  In the movie, it takes the helos a solid 5-10 minutes to get from the airfield to Bakaara Market.  In real life, this is a 30 sec helo ride.  The city is right fucking there.  A dude with an AK-47 on top of a downtown building could take out people at the airfield.  It's really amazing we didn't lose more people there.

Dude, you've been to Mogadishu?

That must have been like visiting an alien planet 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Blanton

[Jkwellborn 6709]

I’ve read that the SOAR pilots set some of the helos down in a fucking alley.

[HiggyBaby 2538]

Horrific event. Terrific book. Great movie. Shit I need to go back a re-read it now. Good score and soundtrack too. Die Born was a great fit.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

On 10/4/2018 at 9:24 PM, closetojumping said:

I think it’s Mark Bowden, but I am too lazy to look it up.

A few things:

1) The book is awesome. I read it and loved it before seeing the movie. 

2) The character played by Eric Bana, “Hoot”, is an amalgam of like 3/4 characters from real life. Fucking great character in the movie and a group of badasses in reality. 

3) I was working 80+ hours a week at a start-up when this came out. I heard from all of my buddies about how awesome the movie was and I had read the book. So I had to go. Late in its run, I go to a showing at Edwards Greenway in Houston after 10pm. It’s me and one couple behind me, at the top, there to watch it. Midway through the movie, in a nice theater, they start fucking. I mean, porn level noise. I turned and couldn’t help but be transfixed for a bit. Good for them, but it ruined any memory of the movie at the theater for me, but I remember them fucking quite clearly. 

4) Any time this movie is on tv and I’m scrolling, I’m watching. No fucking though. 

Sorry about that. We thought we were being discrete.

[williemackgarza 1826]

BHD was a great movies. Those soldiers and operators performed heroically. True american bad asses

[jdhorn92 1552]

Pardon my ignorance, what is an ‘operator’?  I’m assuming a Black Hawk pilot. 

[Jkwellborn 6709]

Special forces operator is what a lot of people mean. Some folks mean soldier. In this case, it’s a fucking badass.

[Blanton 170]

God damn this movie is incredible.

I need to read the book again

[Humble Beast 258]

 

[Parliament 14260]

Never forget

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

2 hours ago, Humble Beast said:

 

Cheers Brothers.🥃 

To You and the 16 others that gave their all today, 29 yrs ago. RIP 🇺🇸

[Jkwellborn 6709]

 

Suicide mission and they went anyway. Bad asses.

[BillyGoatHill 4312]

On 10/7/2018 at 1:54 PM, Eastwood said:

 

 

 

No offense ( in fact, hats off) to your Dad or any other 68W or 18D medics that were there, but Ty's character here is Tim Wilkinson, a USAF PJ from the 24th STS.

Him and his partner Scotty Fales, were PJs assigned to the CSAR bird should shit hit the fan (which it obviously did). They fast roped in after the first bird went down.

Fales would be shot through the calf but stay and set up a casualty collection point, while Wilky continuously exposed himself to get needed supplies and wounded back to the CCP. Both would be recognized after with Fales receiving the Silver Star, and Wilkinson the AF Cross. Along with them receiving medals was Jeff Bray, a USAF Combat Controller that (although depicted in the movie to be done by the Ranger Matt Eversman) called in the little birds ALL night with their mini guns ( most danger close). He came up with the idea of marking their positions with IR strobes thus making everyone else bad guys ( the movie depicts it as them putting their strobes on the Somalis). Years later and depicted in the film 13 Hrs (another goat fuck operation without adequate support applied), the scene with Tonto marking their position with his rifle (IR again) goes back to BHD and Bray's ingenuity under fire. 

Below is a Coffee or Die article highlighting Fales and Wilkinson on 10/03/90.

https://www.coffeeordie.com/scott-fales

[Bateshorn 9928]

The Battle of Mogadishu, in many ways, still reverberates through our military today.  The lack of overwhelming air cover, reliance on under-armored vehicles, equipment failures, training failures, etc illustrated the need for the military to cast off it's Cold War mindset and start modernizing.  The lessons learned from 1993 would save a lot of lives and improve operational efficiencies after 9/11.  

I know people like to blame the Bush 1 and Clinton Administrations for mission creep, and plenty of blame is correct, but ultimately, the affair led the Pentagon to do a lot of looking inward and think about what the future should look like.

It's the opposite of the Chechen invasion for the Russians, who learned nothing from the debacle of the 1st Chechen War.  A failure that is probably going to cost them the Ukrainian War.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Bateshorn

[InkaUtexas 25989]

This is correct. 

My father was on the ground. I had the honor of knowing SFC Shuggart as part of my dad's team. These guys went in knowing they were in trouble. The Pakistani response group sucked and retreated, and they still went in. The training was there. The major issue was relying on others to support. It is a major reason US forces operate as independent groups vs. under the UN banner. 

We learned from it, modified our plans, and people like General Scott Miller (who was also there) applied them for future operations. There was a lot of soul searching after this event. 

RIP to all we lost. 

[Humble Beast 258]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

This is correct. 

My father was on the ground. I had the honor of knowing SFC Shuggart as part of my dad's team. These guys went in knowing they were in trouble. The Pakistani response group sucked and retreated, and they still went in. The training was there. The major issue was relying on others to support. It is a major reason US forces operate as independent groups vs. under the UN banner. 

We learned from it, modified our plans, and people like General Scott Miller (who was also there) applied them for future operations. There was a lot of soul searching after this event. 

RIP to all we lost. 

This was literally a CSB. Thanks for sharing. 
 

I am in awe of any Medal of Honor winner. Whenever I come across a mention of them I go down a rabbit hole reading citations of various winners. Goosebumps. 
 

That’s how I was reminded of this. Saw the ending of Hacksaw Ridge and started bouncing around the internet. Another crazy story. 

[Humble Beast 258]

Not to distract from Mogadishu, but if that sort of thing fascinates you as it does me then this is a pretty intense re-telling of the events surrounding a Medal of Honor winner. Not aware of anywhere else that you can hear such a thorough first person description of these kind of events. Long, but very gripping and emotional. Heavy. 
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/115-into-the-fire-and-beyond-the-call-of/id1070322219?i=1000404138217

Dakota Meyer on Jocko podcast. 

[Brisketexan 105157]

2 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

This is correct. 

My father was on the ground. I had the honor of knowing SFC Shuggart as part of my dad's team. These guys went in knowing they were in trouble. The Pakistani response group sucked and retreated, and they still went in. The training was there. The major issue was relying on others to support. It is a major reason US forces operate as independent groups vs. under the UN banner. 

We learned from it, modified our plans, and people like General Scott Miller (who was also there) applied them for future operations. There was a lot of soul searching after this event. 

RIP to all we lost. 

True CSB.  I remember reading a good chunk of BHD standing in a bookstore/newsstand while delayed on a flight out of O'Hare back when the book came out (I'm a super-fast reader).  Within 30 minutes, my hands were shaking in anger and frustration about the decisions made -- and not made -- that helped make the shitty outcome happen.

But by the same token....seeing our country's and military's ability to learn from our mistakes is encouraging as hell.  We fucked up.  We will fuck up again.  But we best not fuck up the same way twice.  Our fuckups have too great a price -- the loss of brave men and women -- to not get our goddamned money's worth on the lessons we learned.

[InkaUtexas 25989]

Your best post..... I don't think most realize how much thought and preparation goes into missions. Training is constant. I remember my dad being away for months on a "training" exercise. There was no down time for special operators. Conversations around the picnic table at Bragg were how did we fuck up and how do we fix it. That is what makes the difference. NCO's could tell Beckworth he was wrong. And he would listen. 

These men were damn good. They were very well trained and lived their lives doing what they loved. The Stockade was not a place for the weak or faint of heart. 

 

[BabaYaga 15301]

On 10/11/2018 at 6:27 PM, jdhorn92 said:

Pardon my ignorance, what is an ‘operator’?  I’m assuming a Black Hawk pilot. 

"Technically" it's someone who makes it through the arduous OTC:  operator training course.  Which means you first have to have passed selection, which requires (usually) active service in the 75th/Special forces where most operators are gleaned from.  

*side note:  Nate Boyer was on a podcast talking about this.  Most here know his story.  Green Beret.  Walked on to the team.  Later made the Seahawks.  He was invited to try out for selection.  Passed.  But washed out in OTC.  The attrition rate is wild.  

 

[InkaUtexas 25989]

10 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

"Technically" it's someone who makes it through the arduous OTC:  operator training course.  Which means you first have to have passed selection, which requires (usually) active service in the 75th/Special forces where most operators are gleaned from.  

*side note:  Nate Boyer was on a podcast talking about this.  Most here know his story.  Green Beret.  Walked on to the team.  Later made the Seahawks.  He was invited to try out for selection.  Passed.  But washed out in OTC.  The attrition rate is wild.  

 

100 men will jump today. Just spoke to dad. Only damn good things to say about Shugart. 

only 3 win the green beret.