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The Mandalorian (Star Wars live action show)

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GTX Horn

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11 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Watching the prequels with my son this evening, and while they are bad and cringeworthy, both with the writing and dialogue, I really don't want to watch the sequels again.

I think the prequels benefitted from having a cohesively planned story arc (compared to the ST at least). The Sequels as a whole are poorly written and suffer from bad character development because they were basically planned like cinematic improv with different directors creating their own story without really building off of previous entries. The Star Wars cinematic universe seems to do quite the opposite right now with The Mandalorian, and soon Ahsoka, BoBF, and Rangers of the New Republic. It’ll be interesting to see how they build towards their own shared climax and how/if they tie into the sequels to possibly try and strengthen that story and make it more palatable. Or they could just totally ignore the sequels. Not necessarily retcon them, but also not compliment them either.

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In June of 1977, I took a certain college girl out to dinner, and then to see "A New Hope" for our first date.  We hit it off pretty well.  Tonight, we watched the season finale together.  We laughed,

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oSuJeff97

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4 hours ago, GTX Horn said:

I think the prequels benefitted from having a cohesively planned story arc (compared to the ST at least). The Sequels as a whole are poorly written and suffer from bad character development because they were basically planned like cinematic improv with different directors creating their own story without really building off of previous entries. The Star Wars cinematic universe seems to do quite the opposite right now with The Mandalorian, and soon Ahsoka, BoBF, and Rangers of the New Republic. It’ll be interesting to see how they build towards their own shared climax and how/if they tie into the sequels to possibly try and strengthen that story and make it more palatable. Or they could just totally ignore the sequels. Not necessarily retcon them, but also not compliment them either.

This. The prequels have been getting shit for decades, but at least Lucas was trying new things and wasn't just repeating the original story again. The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith have their problems, but both also have their strengths.  I've always thought TPM was some tighter editing and one casting mistake (Jake Lloyd) from being a pretty decent film.

Attack of the Clones is the real problem with the prequels. It's just SO bad. Lucas had no idea how to get Padme and Anakin together and all of the writing around their romance just tanked that movie. Furthermore, because of how poorly AOTC was done, there was a TON of story that needed to be told in ROTS. 

It's baffling to me how poorly the sequel trilogy was planned, especially since Marvel had basically given them the blueprint at that point. You don't need to have three screenplays done before you shoot the first one, but for fuck's sake.... the broad story of where the whole thing was going needed to be mapped out at least, and it clearly wasn't.

 

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GTX Horn

GTX Horn 1707

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26 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

This. The prequels have been getting shit for decades, but at least Lucas was trying new things and wasn't just repeating the original story again. The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith have their problems, but both also have their strengths.  I've always thought TPM was some tighter editing and one casting mistake (Jake Lloyd) from being a pretty decent film.

Attack of the Clones is the real problem with the prequels. It's just SO bad. Lucas had no idea how to get Padme and Anakin together and all of the writing around their romance just tanked that movie. Furthermore, because of how poorly AOTC was done, there was a TON of story that needed to be told in ROTS. 

It's baffling to me how poorly the sequel trilogy was planned, especially since Marvel had basically given them the blueprint at that point. You don't need to have three screenplays done before you shoot the first one, but for fuck's sake.... the broad story of where the whole thing was going needed to be mapped out at least, and it clearly wasn't.

 

The prequels at least were all working towards a shared vision and outcome. The prequels also had good "world building" aspects too with some of the planets and environments it introduced. The ST did none of that. Like you said, it's mind boggling that Disney made such a significant investment in buying the Star Wars property, but didn't bother to have an overarching plan. Episode 9 perfectly incapsulates that because they just plopped Palpatine/Clone Palpatine or whatever the fuck that was as the main villain because Snoke was inexplicably killed. TFA actually wasn't terrible in a vacuum in my opinion, but looking at it as a whole finished product, it's ridiculous how much it set up that went absolutely nowhere or was straight up shit on in TLJ and ROS.

 

I'm excited to see where F&F take this story with the shared Cinematic Universe. That being said, I'd like to eventually see more in the Old Republic-era as opposed to the Skywalker era.

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oSuJeff97

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53 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

The prequels at least were all working towards a shared vision and outcome. The prequels also had good "world building" aspects too with some of the planets and environments it introduced. The ST did none of that. Like you said, it's mind boggling that Disney made such a significant investment in buying the Star Wars property, but didn't bother to have an overarching plan. Episode 9 perfectly incapsulates that because they just plopped Palpatine/Clone Palpatine or whatever the fuck that was as the main villain because Snoke was inexplicably killed. TFA actually wasn't terrible in a vacuum in my opinion, but looking at it as a whole finished product, it's ridiculous how much it set up that went absolutely nowhere or was straight up shit on in TLJ and ROS.

 

I'm excited to see where F&F take this story with the shared Cinematic Universe. That being said, I'd like to eventually see more in the Old Republic-era as opposed to the Skywalker era.

Yes.

TFA was a fun film, but it was just J.J. Abrams "playing the hits."  I'm probably one of the few people here who liked The Last Jedi, just because I thought Rian Johnson did some interesting stuff that hadn't been done in SW before.  So I liked it as a standalone film, but I agree that the narrative that was laid out was problematic within the structure of the Skywalker saga and Rey's story. 

In hindsight, he was much better suited to create one of the anthology films or perhaps one of the upcoming live-action series where he could execute a vision that didn't have to be consistent with Skywalker saga.

But further spreading some blame, I will say that what they did with ROS actually made TLJ worse. I feel like there is someone out there (Filoni? Faverau?) who could have written something that built on TLJ's strengths but tied the story up in a way that wasn't just "lol we know you guys hated TLJ so here's more J.J. Abrams being a George Lucas cover band!".... the irony being that the fans didn't like that either, lol.

A good corollary is what Filoni did that with The Clone Wars.  He took some shaky source material (prequels) and told a rich, satisfying story that built on the good parts of the prequels and made something better that ties the narrative together perfectly.  Too bad he (or someone else like-minded) couldn't do that in the last film of the sequel trilogy.

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Kyle

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On 1/1/2021 at 3:00 PM, GTX Horn said:

TFA actually wasn't terrible in a vacuum in my opinion, but looking at it as a whole finished product, it's ridiculous how much it set up that went absolutely nowhere or was straight up shit on in TLJ and ROS.

That's where I land. If I had never seen a Star Wars movie, I would have really enjoyed TFA ... but in the context of Star Wars, it is just a remake of ANH with Mary Sue and the Stormjanitor fighting a kid pissed off because he just got kicked out of Panic at the Disco.

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Neonmoon

Neonmoon 38127

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On 1/1/2021 at 2:20 PM, oSuJeff97 said:

This. The prequels have been getting shit for decades, but at least Lucas was trying new things and wasn't just repeating the original story again. The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith have their problems, but both also have their strengths.  I've always thought TPM was some tighter editing and one casting mistake (Jake Lloyd) from being a pretty decent film.

Attack of the Clones is the real problem with the prequels. It's just SO bad. Lucas had no idea how to get Padme and Anakin together and all of the writing around their romance just tanked that movie. Furthermore, because of how poorly AOTC was done, there was a TON of story that needed to be told in ROTS. 

It's baffling to me how poorly the sequel trilogy was planned, especially since Marvel had basically given them the blueprint at that point. You don't need to have three screenplays done before you shoot the first one, but for fuck's sake.... the broad story of where the whole thing was going needed to be mapped out at least, and it clearly wasn't.

 

The fact that a billion dollar franchise, one of the most successful franchises ever, wasn’t scripted out for all three movies before they were filmed is mindnumbingly stupid. I can’t even begin to fathom the negligence involved. The amount of planning in my former job for merely a few million dollar projects dwarfs that. We would plan out shit that might happen. 


 

 

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oSuJeff97

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On 1/14/2021 at 10:50 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Watched Gallery. A bit disappointed it was only one episode this season. But I guess they didn’t have as much to work with. Already explained the Volume and whatnot. Also, and I don’t think I need to spoiler this, how did they not talk about Luke!?!

I read or saw somewhere that it was likely the extreme secrecy on the Luke stuff that was the reason. If you look at the credits for the Gallery episode, it looks like they farmed it out to a third-party production company outside of Lucasfilm.  And the episode was posted a week after the last episode. So had they covered the Luke stuff, they would have had people (editors, etc.) at this production company privy to the Luke stuff for weeks or months ahead of when the episode aired, and the spoiler would have likely gotten out.

It's the same reason they didn't have any Baby Yoda/Grougu toys or what not ready when season 1 dropped. They would have had to give the designs over to toy companies for production well ahead of time and it would have gotten out.

Given that it is showing as "Episode 1" of Gallery Season 2, I think it's likely that they are doing a whole separate episode on the Luke stuff that didn't go into production until after the season was completed, so will be coming at some point down the line.

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atomheartbevo

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On 1/3/2021 at 2:47 PM, Kyle said:

That's where I land. If I had never seen a Star Wars movie, I would have really enjoyed TFA ... but in the context of Star Wars, it is just a remake of ANH with Mary Sue and the Stormjanitor fighting a kid pissed off because he just got kicked out of Panic at the Disco.

TFA would have been great in a vacuum.

Instead, JJ thought Star Wars fans wanted Leia, Han, Luke, Chewbacca, and the Droids, and the Rebellion as a whole, to have absolutely shitty lives after ROTJ.  And he thought fans wanted to see Han Solo be killed by his son, Luke driven to near madness, and Leia in a 24/7 state of sadness.  And he thought fans wanted to see that Han and Chewie were reduced back to smuggling, AND that they had lost the Millennium Falcon.

If JJ had been tasked with a sequel to E.T., he would have had Gertie as a strung-out prostitute, Elliott would be an incel living in his mom's basement, living off of writing crummy books about alien visitors, and when E.T. comes back, he would have been hunted relentlessly by a bunch of rich guys who wanted his head for their trophy room, and one of them would have bagged E.T.

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atomheartbevo

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On 1/14/2021 at 8:24 PM, Neonmoon said:

The fact that a billion dollar franchise, one of the most successful franchises ever, wasn’t scripted out for all three movies before they were filmed is mindnumbingly stupid. I can’t even begin to fathom the negligence involved. The amount of planning in my former job for merely a few million dollar projects dwarfs that. We would plan out shit that might happen. 

It really speaks to Kathleen Kennedy's (and her bosses') incompetence.   Disney has owned Marvel since 2009, and the MCU was coming together well before TFA was written/filmed.  Feige had already plotted out the first dozen movies or so by the time TFA was in production.

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Kyle

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48 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

TFA would have been great in a vacuum.

Instead, JJ thought Star Wars fans wanted Leia, Han, Luke, Chewbacca, and the Droids, and the Rebellion as a whole, to have absolutely shitty lives after ROTJ.  And he thought fans wanted to see Han Solo be killed by his son, Luke driven to near madness, and Leia in a 24/7 state of sadness.  And he thought fans wanted to see that Han and Chewie were reduced back to smuggling, AND that they had lost the Millennium Falcon.

If JJ had been tasked with a sequel to E.T., he would have had Gertie as a strung-out prostitute, Elliott would be an incel living in his mom's basement, living off of writing crummy books about alien visitors, and when E.T. comes back, he would have been hunted relentlessly by a bunch of rich guys who wanted his head for their trophy room, and one of them would have bagged E.T.

Spot on. Pretty amazing in retrospect how badly he could screw it up. 

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henrygandorf

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

TFA would have been great in a vacuum.

Instead, JJ thought Star Wars fans wanted Leia, Han, Luke, Chewbacca, and the Droids, and the Rebellion as a whole, to have absolutely shitty lives after ROTJ.  And he thought fans wanted to see Han Solo be killed by his son, Luke driven to near madness, and Leia in a 24/7 state of sadness.  And he thought fans wanted to see that Han and Chewie were reduced back to smuggling, AND that they had lost the Millennium Falcon.

i think in part it was an overreaction to the prequels.  fans hated them, and now we live with the internet and social media and blah blah, so he thought he had to thread the needle.  he wanted to tell a simple and familiar story, and thought he had to shoe-horn han and chewy in or fans would revolt.  turns out it was just the opposite, as the forced nostalgia attempts were the worst part of the movie.  it was as if the rockets brought back hakeem this season and then got confused why they weren't winning more games.

all you need is the star wars universe, and in the case of the original star wars saga, you have the music and falcon and droids, and you're good.

good story >>> stunt casting.  every single time.

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UT_OB1

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Is it possible the cast didn’t know Luke was the Jedi?  They had a stand in that could have been anyone with the cgi face, and none of the lines spoken by the main cast gave it away. Would have thought someone in the cast or filming crew would have said something if the stand in was running around in a shirt that said Luke Double. 

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Duval Street

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On 1/19/2021 at 12:46 AM, UT_OB1 said:

Is it possible the cast didn’t know Luke was the Jedi?  They had a stand in that could have been anyone with the cgi face, and none of the lines spoken by the main cast gave it away. Would have thought someone in the cast or filming crew would have said something if the stand in was running around in a shirt that said Luke Double. 

The single X-wing (mentioned by Cara) along with R2’s appearance would’ve been suspicious at the very least.

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Viper

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On 1/18/2021 at 11:46 PM, UT_OB1 said:

Is it possible the cast didn’t know Luke was the Jedi?  They had a stand in that could have been anyone with the cgi face, and none of the lines spoken by the main cast gave it away. Would have thought someone in the cast or filming crew would have said something if the stand in was running around in a shirt that said Luke Double. 

 

33 minutes ago, Duval Street said:

The single X-wing (mentioned by Cara) along with R2’s appearance would’ve been suspicious at the very least.

They didn't know until they were filming it. Luke wasn't in any of the scrips until they were filming that episode. 

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WBT

WBT 20422

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I just finished the finale and somehow managed not to be spoiled on Luke.  I suspected it might be him with the "single X-wing" line but still got the emotions with the reveal.  Once again, f RJ with his bullshit Luke becomes a miserable whiny bitchass hermit because he's sad bullshit.

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F250

F250 28685

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1 hour ago, WBT said:

I just finished the finale and somehow managed not to be spoiled on Luke.  I suspected it might be him with the "single X-wing" line but still got the emotions with the reveal.  Once again, f RJ with his bullshit Luke becomes a miserable whiny bitchass hermit because he's sad bullshit.

Same. I suspected it was Luke as well but the reveal wasn't spoiled at all. The reveal felt like an old World Class Wrestling surprise entrance to it, like when one of the Von Erichs showed up in disguise and then started kicking the shit out of the Freebirds. It made me feel like a kid again getting giddy at the hero's entrance.

This whole series captures the Star Wars magic of my youth.

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Buzzrock

Buzzrock 14871

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Same. I suspected it was Luke as well but the reveal wasn't spoiled at all. The reveal felt like an old World Class Wrestling surprise entrance to it, like when one of the Von Erichs showed up in disguise and then started kicking the shit out of the Freebirds. It made me feel like a kid again getting giddy at the hero's entrance.
This whole series captures the Star Wars magic of my youth.


“Is that Luke Skywalker’s music?!?”
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Surly Bevo

Surly Bevo 24696

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2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

8d9c3c01c0df9da3e86c715595c9d3d3ea7b9254

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I know he wasn't a stormtrooper, but the point is made.

 

Oh c'mon Finn got to share clothes with the fast talking swarthy Guatemalan ace flyboy, romance a pudgy, clingy Vietnamese American, kill the big hulking English chick waste of space stormtrooper and make subtle attempts at a norm breaking Star Wars interracial relationship with the hot English chick before he got friend zoned by the Jedi order and their monastic tendencies.  Finn was dealing with a lot of shit.

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Viper

Viper 12030

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1 minute ago, GTX Horn said:

IMO they don’t even need to recast her. The show has a strong supporting cast without her. Just don’t mention her again and move on.

Agree with this. No need to recast, it's a big universe, he can meet someone else to help him. 

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Js1

Js1 85110

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17 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

IMO they don’t even need to recast her. The show has a strong supporting cast without her. Just don’t mention her again and move on.

True.  Oh she died.  Sad sad sad.  

More screen time for Mr. Kim if he wants it! 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89439

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19 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

IMO they don’t even need to recast her. The show has a strong supporting cast without her. Just don’t mention her again and move on.

Hell, if they go in the direction they seem to be, she'd be nowhere near the third season anyways, since it'll probably be Mandalorian stuff.

She was being presented with the Rangers of the New Republic show last year, which would have taken her out of Mandalorian anyways, although apparently LucasFilm started retooling it after she made her first round of comments back in November.

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oSuJeff97

oSuJeff97 3435

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59 minutes ago, GTX Horn said:

IMO they don’t even need to recast her. The show has a strong supporting cast without her. Just don’t mention her again and move on.

100% this.

She can literally be explained away with one line of dialogue.  "Ever since we lost Cara Dune a the battle of blah blah blah..."  Boom. Done. Move on.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89439

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24 minutes ago, oSuJeff97 said:

100% this.

She can literally be explained away with one line of dialogue.  "Ever since we lost Cara Dune a the battle of blah blah blah..."  Boom. Done. Move on.

They don't even really have to say anything.  She was only along for the one mission, to pick up Moff Gideon.  Logic dictates that she took him back to the New Republic.

Shand headed off with Boba Fett to do gangster shit, as evidenced by the stinger in the credits.

Mando and the Mandalorians have got Mandalorian shit to take care of now that they have a ship and he has the Dark Saber.

And it's a year off before we see any more episodes, and we'll have at elast two more Star Wars series that air between now and then.

We're good.

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