Cannabis 'more harmful than alcohol' for teen brains

[phdhorn 6,224]

Interdasting

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Cannabis 'more harmful than alcohol' for teen brains

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Teenagers using cannabis are causing long-lasting damage to their developing brains, a Canadian study suggests.

It found the impact on thinking skills, memory and behaviour was worse than that of teenage drinking.

The researchers, from the University of Montreal, urged teenagers to delay their use of cannabis for as long as they felt able.

The study tracked and tested 3,800 adolescents over four years, starting from around the age of 13.

Drinking alcohol and taking drugs, such as cannabis, at a young age is known to cause problems with cognitive abilities such as learning, attention and decision-making as well as academic performance at school.

This study found these problems increased as cannabis use increased - and the effects were lasting, unlike those of alcohol.

• What are the health risks of cannabis use?

The teenagers, from 31 different Canadian schools, gave details of their drug and drinking habits once a year.

Their brain skills were also tested every year in school using computer-based cognitive tests.

Developing brains

Although levels of cannabis use in the study were low compared with alcohol use, 28% of the teenagers still admitted to some kind of use.

This compared with 75% of the teenagers who said they drank alcohol at least occasionally.

Prof Patricia J Conrod, lead study author, from the department of psychiatry at Montreal, said she had expected alcohol to have had more of an impact on the teenagers' brains.

But, instead, the research detected greater increases in errors in cognitive tests on the teenagers using cannabis - while they were taking the drug and after they had stopped.

These effects were seen in working memory, reasoning and their ability to control their behaviour.

"Their brains are still developing but cannabis is interfering with that," Prof Conrod said, of teenagers.

"They should delay their use of cannabis as long as they can."

She also said the findings highlighted the importance of drug-prevention programmes.

Cannabis is thought to be the most widely used illegal drug in the UK.

It can be addictive and using it has been shown to increase the risk of developing psychotic illnesses, particularly in adolescents.

Giving up cannabis can lead to withdrawal symptoms, such as sleeping problems and mood swings, experts say.

The study is published in the American Journal of Psychiatry.

[RoundRobin 828]

I just did both. 

[Deej 76,960]

"Giving up cannabis can lead to withdrawal symptoms, such as sleeping problems and mood swings, experts say."

Meh. Giving up weed was always easier than giving up any other substance. Alcohol, nicotine, narcotics, and caffeine say "Hi!"

[Neonmoon 38,130]

If you use too much of either, it’s bad. If used in moderation, both are good

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

7 minutes ago, Deej said:

"Giving up cannabis can lead to withdrawal symptoms, such as sleeping problems and mood swings, experts say."

Meh. Giving up weed was always easier than giving up any other substance. Alcohol, nicotine, narcotics, and caffeine say "Hi!"

Yeppers.  Shit, I'm out of weed, oh well........  No more bourbon?  Gimme a ginger ale.

Hell I got a sugar Jones that's harder to kick than weed, and alcohol put together.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

If you use too much of either, it’s bad. If used in moderation, both are good

That's pretty much true of most things in life.

[achooloco 1,086]

53 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

But, instead, the research detected greater increases in errors in cognitive tests on the teenagers using cannabis - while they were taking the drug and after they had stopped.

Brilliant level of analysis there deducing it affected them while high... rest of the study is suspect imo. How long after they were high did they re-test? Sounds like fear mongering instead of anything constructive that can be used for a sensible drug policy

[Deej 76,960]

12 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeppers.  Shit, I'm out of weed, oh well........  No more bourbon?  Gimme a ginger ale.

Hell I got a sugar Jones that's harder to kick than weed, and alcohol put together.

 

[Helobious 9,467]

I don’t think weed is that dangerous, but I do chuckle at the thought that it’s not addicting. I had this convo many times

”one of the good things about weed is that it’s not addicting, you can stop whenever you want and not have problems.”

”so then stop.”

”nah man I don’t want to it makes me feel really good and it’s not dangerous.” 

[Bash Riprock 1,695]

[Celery Man 21,004]

Weed isn't physically addictive, which is how it differs there from alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, etc.

 

For high school kids, without any studies or anything, it seems like the biggest risk is becoming a "stoner" as your predominant identity.  I wonder how that would change if weed itself became less illicit.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

28 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Weed isn't physically addictive, which is how it differs there from alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, etc.

 

For high school kids, without any studies or anything, it seems like the biggest risk is becoming a "stoner" as your predominant identity.  I wonder how that would change if weed itself became less illicit.

There'd be more stoners ?

[Celery Man 21,004]

If weed was no more illegal than booze, would it create more "stoners", or would it decrease the amount that smoking pot became central to pot smoking teenagers' core identity.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

If weed was no more illegal than booze, would it create more "stoners", or would it decrease the amount that smoking pot became central to pot smoking teenagers' core identity.

Good question. Remove the stigma of illegality and bad boy image. It's still gonna be illegal for kids to smoke it, so little different than raiding the parents liquor cabinet at that point.

[immortal13 4,059]

5 hours ago, achooloco said:

Brilliant level of analysis there deducing it affected them while high... rest of the study is suspect imo. How long after they were high did they re-test? Sounds like fear mongering instead of anything constructive that can be used for a sensible drug policy

Propaganda

[XYZ 2,154]

So basically they established some sort of correlation but not causation. Therefore, the title “cannabis more harmful than alcohol for teen brains” is baseless.

[GotThatFire 166]

 Wait are there actually people here that think there’s nothing wrong with kids smoking weed? 

[safe sex 11,794]

I would be fine if, during national legalization, the age limit was set to 25, when brains are generally considered "fully developed."

[Ben Tobin 374]

20 hours ago, Helobious said:

I don’t think weed is that dangerous, but I do chuckle at the thought that it’s not addicting. I had this convo many times

”one of the good things about weed is that it’s not addicting, you can stop whenever you want and not have problems.”

”so then stop.”

”nah man I don’t want to it makes me feel really good and it’s not dangerous.” 

[scottsins 1,975]

Based on the study, it would seem that weed should be illegal for teens, just like alcohol is.  Other than that, this shouldn’t really move the needle for anyone.

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

Obligatory-

 

[deft 6,887]

I teach middle school. Fortnite is a greater threat for their brain development than pot or alcohol.

[SHOOTER12 8,834]

On 10/7/2018 at 10:33 AM, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeppers.  Shit, I'm out of weed, oh well........  No more bourbon?  Gimme a ginger ale.

Hell I got a sugar Jones that's harder to kick than weed, and alcohol put together.

 

I get the sugar Jones off and on.   I'll go months without a craving, and then it hits for a couple weeks and I just can't say no.

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

59 minutes ago, deft said:

I teach middle school. Fortnite is a greater threat for their brain development than pot or alcohol.

 

As was pitfall, asteroids, pacman, legend of Zelda, tetris, etc. Water is wet. I just read an article of some 29 year old dipshit in bumfuck Iowa making $500K a year playing fortnite for a living. 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by JimmyHoffa

[ConferenceRoom 6,147]

16 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

As was pitfall, asteroids, pacman, legend of Zelda, tetris, etc. Water is wet. I just read an article of some 29 year old dipshit in bumfuck Iowa making $500K a year playing fortnite for a living. 

 

Next you'll tell me that there is an entire website where people play video games and viewers pay them money for it. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,528]

23 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Weed isn't physically addictive, which is how it differs there from alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, etc.

One problem is that weed usage has not studied that closely but experts say that some become addicted.    It's also important to realize that like many controversial subjects, some experts create facts to suit their own beliefs or agenda.  

[Celery Man 21,004]

weed is absolutely addictive in the broad sense that people have a hard time walking away/putting it down.  It is not physically addictive in the same way as alcohol or heroin.  You stop smoking weed and you realize that eating cheetos and watching adventure time is fucking boring.  You don't have tremors, night sweats, hallucinations, and then die of a heart attack.

[SpiralOut 1,818]

59 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

As was pitfall, asteroids, pacman, legend of Zelda, tetris, etc. Water is wet. I just read an article of some 29 year old dipshit in bumfuck Iowa making $500K a year playing fortnite for a living. 

 

The top Fortnite streamer is Ninja, a kid from Chicago, who makes $500k a month. 

 

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

1 hour ago, SpiralOut said:

The top Fortnite streamer is Ninja, a kid from Chicago, who makes $500k a month. 

 

Yep. Not saying that every Tom, Dick and Harry can do what Ninja does but when you have a car full of 8 year olds talking about his youtube videos you are doing something right. 

[immortal13 4,059]

The fuck is a juul?

[BadgerHorn 147]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

The fuck is a juul?

I was wondering the same thing.  Urbandictionary tells us:

 

Quote

 

Juul

A highly concentrated nicotine vaporizer which underage kids use to get a buzz. It is commonly mistaken for a USB stick which makes it easy to take use in class. A rip from this device is usually referred to as a 'wop' and the stick itself is also known as a wop machine. High school age kids often ask to use the bathroom, but instead they are getting nic rpped in the bathroom off of wops.

Student: Hey teacher can I drop a log in the bathroom right quick? 
Teacher: Yeah get your shitty smellin ass outta my classroom. 
Student gets into bathroom and immediately starts takin mad wops from his USB lookin ass Juul.

 

 

Not sure what this has to do with Italians.

[Neonmoon 38,130]

Fucking kids and technology. Smoke a cigarette and get lung cancer like an adult 

[Twizzler 161]

4 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

The top Fortnite streamer is Ninja, a kid from Chicago, who makes $500k a month. 

 

[safe sex 11,794]

Two things;
- Fortnite is not allowed in our household (probably outing myself as a square). Or maybe not knowing much of anything about Taylor Swift in the other thread already outted me.
- A friend at work has high school aged kids in a tony suburb, and he claims literally every teenage kid he knows or encounters are sucking on juuls as if they are the new thing. I then saw something on LinkedIn saying like 75% of teenage boys have admitted to using Juul, so take that for what’s its worth. And I’m not sure that stuff is safe, you have kids sucking on electricity and nicotine and whatever else. That seems worse, as a habit, than smoking pot twice a year or drinking some beer responsibly (which I fully understand kids don’t drink or smoke pot in moderation and responsibly, but they can’t hid it in plain sight like you can a Thumbdrive size Juul).

It's easier than ever to get high on pot without anyone knowing. You think vaping devices are just for nicotine?

[Hate 20,146]

Yeppers.  Shit, I'm out of weed, oh well........  No more bourbon?  Gimme a ginger ale.
Hell I got a sugar Jones that's harder to kick than weed, and alcohol put together.

This is nothing more than poor planning.

[immortal13 4,059]

9 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

3 hours ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Two things;
- Fortnite is not allowed in our household (probably outing myself as a square). Or maybe not knowing much of anything about Taylor Swift in the other thread already outted me.
- A friend at work has high school aged kids in a tony suburb, and he claims literally every teenage kid he knows or encounters are sucking on juuls as if they are the new thing. I then saw something on LinkedIn saying like 75% of teenage boys have admitted to using Juul, so take that for what’s its worth. And I’m not sure that stuff is safe, you have kids sucking on electricity and nicotine and whatever else. That seems worse, as a habit, than smoking pot twice a year or drinking some beer responsibly (which I fully understand kids don’t drink or smoke pot in moderation and responsibly, but they can’t hid it in plain sight like you can a Thumbdrive size Juul).

It's easier than ever to get high on pot without anyone knowing. You think vaping devices are just for nicotine?

I don't think that is what he is saying

[TwiceHorn 31,573]

On 10/7/2018 at 10:40 AM, achooloco said:

Brilliant level of analysis there deducing it affected them while high... rest of the study is suspect imo. How long after they were high did they re-test? Sounds like fear mongering instead of anything constructive that can be used for a sensible drug policy

I don't think that is what that means.  It means during the time they were actively using versus the time they had stopped using.  In other words, the effects persisted after cessation of use.

[deft 6,887]

 
As was pitfall, asteroids, pacman, legend of Zelda, tetris, etc. Water is wet. I just read an article of some 29 year old dipshit in bumfuck Iowa making $500K a year playing fortnite for a living. 
 

I’m sure there was a point you were making. I wasn’t around for asteroids and Pac-Man coming of age but I can almost guarantee you kids were staying up literally all night playing it. We’re talking about addiction level obsession with this game for a lot of kids.

[TwiceHorn 31,573]

6 hours ago, Celery Man said:

weed is absolutely addictive in the broad sense that people have a hard time walking away/putting it down.  It is not physically addictive in the same way as alcohol or heroin.  You stop smoking weed and you realize that eating cheetos and watching adventure time is fucking boring.  You don't have tremors, night sweats, hallucinations, and then die of a heart attack.

I would just add that it is "psychologically" addictive in that, as a mood-altering substance, one can become dependent upon it in flight from reality.  It isn't "physically" addictive in that there are no defined withdrawal symptoms or syndrome.

[Neonmoon 38,130]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I would just add that it is "psychologically" addictive in that, as a mood-altering substance, one can become dependent upon it in flight from reality.  It isn't "physically" addictive in that there are no defined withdrawal symptoms or syndrome.

[Al_4_ISU 12,504]

22 hours ago, Celery Man said:

weed is absolutely addictive in the broad sense that people have a hard time walking away/putting it down.  It is not physically addictive in the same way as alcohol or heroin.  You stop smoking weed and you realize that eating cheetos and watching adventure time is fucking boring.  You don't have tremors, night sweats, hallucinations, and then die of a heart attack.

Alcohol isn't physically addictive the way heroin is.  It requires pretty serious abuse to have a true physical withdrawal akin to getting off smack.  Pretty much everyone who does heroin gets addicted.  I would not equate them on the scale of physical addictiveness.

But your point that there's zero physical side effects to quitting pot is definitely accurate.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Al_4_ISU

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

5 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Alcohol isn't physically addictive for a large chunk of the population.  It requires pretty serious abuse to have a true physical withdrawal akin to getting off smack.  Pretty much everyone who does heroin gets addicted.  I would not equate them on the scale of physical addictiveness.

But you're point that there's zero physical side effects to quitting pot is definitely accurate.

Maybe not addictive for a large % of the population, but you're born with it, and it is not hard to fall into that abyss.  Dealing with that shit right the fuck now !!!!!

 

No side effects to not smoking pot ? Psssshaw....  weight loss.....

Edited October 9, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[Sbbruin 21,898]

[RDCanecutter 26,476]

Can you really harm a "teen brain"?

Some of the greatest accomplishments in history came from people who chewed lead paint chips as children.

[TwiceHorn 31,573]

17 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Alcohol isn't physically addictive the way heroin is.  It requires pretty serious abuse to have a true physical withdrawal akin to getting off smack.  Pretty much everyone who does heroin gets addicted.  I would not equate them on the scale of physical addictiveness.

But your point that there's zero physical side effects to quitting pot is definitely accurate.

I'm not sure this is precisely true.  I am reasonably sure that you are correct that there is a high correlation between heroin use and addiction, but I would submit that a big reason for that is that people who try heroin are pretty far down the addiction hole to begin with.

 

Also, alcohol withdrawal is commonly fatal when unsupervised.  Heroin withdrawal almost never is.  I'm sure it is quite unpleasant, though.

Edited October 9, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[Al_4_ISU 12,504]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm not sure this is precisely true.  I am reasonably sure that you are correct that there is a high correlation between heroin use and addiction, but I would submit that a big reason for that is that people who try heroin are pretty far down the addiction hole to begin with.

 

Also, alcohol withdrawal is commonly fatal when unsupervised.  Heroin withdrawal almost never is.  I'm sure it is quite unpleasant, though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that to reach that level of alcohol withdrawal, the level of abuse has to be really, really high.  A much smaller percentage of alcohol users ever reach that point compared to the percentage of heroin users who suffer physical withdrawal. 

That's a good point about heroin users already being in the addiction cycle, but doesn't that speak more to the mental side of the equation addiction?  The specific physical addiction to heroin hasn't been developed at the point where usage starts (although general opiate addiction is already likely present from pain pill abuse).

[Al_4_ISU 12,504]

27 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Maybe not addictive for a large % of the population, but you're born with it, and it is not hard to fall into that abyss.  Dealing with that shit right the fuck now !!!!!

 

No side effects to not smoking pot ? Psssshaw....  weight loss.....

There does seem to be that with alcohol.  There are a lot of people who just don't get physically addicted to it, but some who absolutely do.  

My thought with opiates/heroin is that pretty much everyone who starts ends up addicted.  Of course, as TwiceHorn pointed out, they may already be so far down that road by that point that it's the more likely explanation.

[Rimbo 26,157]

It isn't any surprise that alcohol use is bad for teenaged brains. The brain is still developing. This has been known for a while, and I'd be surprised if it isn't well-documented.

It makes sense that cannabis usage would have similar detrimental effects.

But what's bad for a developing child's brain isn't going to have the same amount of badness for a fully-developed adult's brain. That's why we have a drinking age.

[TwiceHorn 31,573]

12 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that to reach that level of alcohol withdrawal, the level of abuse has to be really, really high.  A much smaller percentage of alcohol users ever reach that point compared to the percentage of heroin users who suffer physical withdrawal. 

That's a good point about heroin users already being in the addiction cycle, but doesn't that speak more to the mental side of the equation addiction?  The specific physical addiction to heroin hasn't been developed at the point where usage starts (although general opiate addiction is already likely present from pain pill abuse).

Well, one of the fundamental things is you don't find heroin at tailgates, for example.  If more people say snorted heroin at parties, you might see more "casual" or recreational heroin users and a lower relative percentage of addicts.

All that's required for alcohol withdrawal is addictive-style use of being intoxicated at some level for most of the waking hours of the day for several weeks.  You are correct that people that get way fucked up on the weekends and stay sober during the week don't experience alcohol withdrawal.  By the same token, I don't think there are many users of heroin that don't stay fucked up on it 24/7.

I don't doubt that one of heroin's addictive factors is rapid onset of tolerance and withdrawal , but it's really hard to compare apples to apples when you are talking a real fringe drug and alcohol.  Plus, as far as I know, the relapse rate in heroin addiction is very high even once withdrawal is past, indicating that the people who become heroin addicts probably would have been alcoholics if never exposed to heroin.

Which brings to mind the burning question I have and that is did the overprescription of opiates just unleash a bunch of latent addicts?  Are the victims of the opiate crisis real addicts in the AA sense, or just weak people that can't get past a few days of dope sickness?

Edited October 9, 2018 by TwiceHorn

[KaiserSoze 998]

Regarding marijuana dependency/addiction, etc. I smoked/vaped/edible'd it 3-5x/week for 8.5 straight beginning in my mid-30s. 7 months ago I stopped and can say the only side effects were...

1. A few nights or so of it taking a *little* longer to fall asleep, but nowhere near as long as it takes when stopping alcohol.

2. Weight gain. I ended up drinking more during the 7 months when I wasn't using weed. I never get the munchies from it and I don't drink much alcohol at all when I'm high, so I ended up consuming a lot more calories during the 7 months of no weed because I was drinking more.

Other than that there were zero side effects- no 'jonesing' for it or inability to concentrate/function at all... nothing. I got back into it 2 weeks ago and am loving it again, but it wasn't an issue at all to abstain.