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The playoff system is perfect. Let's not fuck it up.

Thetexashammer

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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They playoffs are perfect the way they are, and changing them by adding more teams would harm the sport irreparably by lessening the importance of the regular season. And if you disagree with me, then you, sir, are worse than Hitler.

The beauty of college football is unique among sports, as is our system for determining a champion. And that’s not an accident. Unlike professional athletes, they are really young adults who play for fun and have another full-time job. There are real differences between one school and another. Aggies really are different from Sooners who are different from Longhorns. People’s values, ethics, cultures, and even intelligence vary by school. And because of this disorganized organization, we had multiple claims to championships, then the Bowl Alliance, then the BCS, now the playoffs. And they work.

As a result of a wonderful historical accident, college football developed a bowl system rather than a tournament. This means we had the single most important regular season of any sport. Because you went to the mythical national championship based on rankings, all kinds of ridiculous and subjective elements came into play. And the drama was, and is, incredible. But there was a problem.

With multiple ranking systems came multiple champions. And this problem needed a solution. First the Alliance, then the shitty BCS, now a four game playoff system. And indeed, the only reason for the system is to identify a true champion. And it’s fantastic. But some want to ruin it.

Contrast this with the NFL. The Super Bowl has been won by teams with a regular season record of 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5. Those teams clearly demonstrated they were not the best teams. What you had, in effect, was two separate tournaments. You had a regular season winner, with players resting for the playoffs, and a winner of the end of season tournament. No true champion.

The 2006 St. Louis Cardinals were 83-78 in the regular season. Not even close to best. Pretty close to average, actually. What else were they? Well since you ask, they were the winners of the World Series. Were they the best team? Uh, no. That system doesn’t work. 

In 2007 the Patriots went undefeated. Were they Super Bowl champs? No. But they were undeniably one of the greatest teams of all time forever and ever amen.

So this Sacred Cow, the idea that playoffs identify the “Best Team”, I’m sorry but that’s wrong. It feels good to settle it on the field, but no, you aren’t the best if you win a sudden death playoff, it’s too random. The regular season is a better gauge of the quality of your team.

So if the purpose of college football playoffs is to determine the champion, does the fifth ranked team have any claim to be the best? No chance. Never. Won’t happen.  There simply are no other teams with a valid claim to a title. Fifth best has no claim.

Expanding to eight teams simply invalidates the idea that the winner is the best team, aka true champion. It just means we had two tournaments, the regular season, and another tournament after the regular season. You can drop two games, still get in. Who cares. I mean, let’s just do like NCAA basketball where nobody even watches the regular season. Expanding means the regular season doesn’t matter.

Don’t get me started on people who think “conference champions” matter. They do, but they’re also arbitrary. You can have two great teams from the same conference, a great team with no conference, or no teams from a conference. The conferences are college football’s version of OPEC, trying to monopolize the money.

College football has the single best regular season and has stumbled ass backwards into the best way to determine its champion. Let’s not fuck it up by delegitimizing the regular season.

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chase25

chase25 2048

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Wait so a 4 team playoff with 5 P5 conferences is perfect? Got it. It would really make the NFL interesting if they just told the NFC East champ "sorry you are out of the playoff even though you won your division."

This stuff will and has always been a beauty contest and it will continue to be until you expand to 8 teams, 8 is perfect. Conference champions are automatic and then after the conference champions you take the next 3 highest ranked teams, possibly giving the Boise States and UCFs of the world a chance.

EDIT: The above is what will most likely happen if we go to to an 8 team playoff; I however, would like to go to an 8 team playoff, do away with a biased committee and re-introduce a better version of the BCS system with a little bit higher emphasis on SOS, and let that system determine the best 8 teams and then let those teams duke it out. I thought the BCS actually was pretty accurate, people just hated the fact that it determined a 2 team championship game, especially in 2008 when we were more than deserving of a shot at it.

Edited by Texas25
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Magus Ossis

Magus Ossis 2784

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It is possible for all 5 P5 champions to be undefeated in the same year. How perfect is a system that leaves 13-0 Michigan (or Texas, USC, Clemson, etc) out of that hypothetical tournament? Or by perfect, do you mean enjoyable because the nightmare scenario seems improbable and because who cares that UCF beats everyone who will schedule them— F those losers?

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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13 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Conference champions are automatic and then after the conference champions you take the next 3 highest ranked teams, possibly giving the Boise States and UCFs of the world a chance.

EDIT: The above is what will most likely happen if we go to to an 8 team playoff; I however, would like to go to an 8 team playoff, do away with a biased committee and re-introduce a better version of the BCS system with a little bit higher emphasis on SOS, and let that system determine the best 8 teams and then let those teams duke it out. I thought the BCS actually was pretty accurate, people just hated the fact that it determined a 2 team championship game, especially in 2008 when we were more than deserving of a shot at it.

1. What claim would the fifth ranked team have on being the champion? None can be the only answer. 

2. What if a conference is down, and the best ranked team is like 15th or 20th best? Who would think that is valid?

Second place is first loser. Why do I care about the seventh place or eighth place team? 

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Deej

Deej 76568

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If college football had the best regular season, we wouldn't have one conference that plays fewer conference games than the others in order to play the little sisters of the poor in late November, while everyone else plays real games, in order to boost their rankings. The system is unequal. 

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chase25

chase25 2048

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3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

1. What claim would the fifth ranked team have on being the champion? None can be the only answer. 

2. What if a conference is down, and the best ranked team is like 15th or 20th best? Who would think that is valid?

Second place is first loser. Why do I care about the seventh place or eighth place team? 

1. By this logic why even have a National Championship game? Why not just make the regular season all that matters and when it's over lets just sit at a table like the old days and say this team is the champion and the bowl game is a reward. What claim does the 2nd ranked team have on being the champion, especially in a season when the #1 team is the only team in the country undefeated at the end of the regular season.

2. If you read my edit, my system would not be the same as what I think will ultimately end up happening with an 8 team playoff. I agree that I don't want a system in which and 8-4/9-3 team can win their division, pull of an upset in the CCG, and get into the playoff. I would just have a revised version of the BCS rank the 8 best teams and let them have at it.

In 2008 you don't think an 8 team playoff with (1) Oklahoma vs (8) Penn State, (2) Florida vs (7) Texas Tech, (3) Texas vs (6) Utah (who went on to beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, and (4) Alabama vs (5) USC, would have been exciting?

Utah finished 13-0 that year, they deserved a shot at the national titles just as much as anybody.

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54001

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Seriously, anyone who makes the "Best Team" argument isn't an actual sports fan.  That's fucking beauty contest shit. 

If you're arguing for "Best Team," then you shouldn't even want bowl games.  Hell, you should right now want to cancel all games for the rest of the season and award Alabama the Best Team trophy, because they're obviously the Best Team.  

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MrPhlegm

MrPhlegm 3413

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They playoffs are perfect the way they are, and changing them by adding more teams would harm the sport irreparably by lessening the importance of the regular season. And if you disagree with me, then you, sir, are worse than Hitler.
The beauty of college football is unique among sports, as is our system for determining a champion. And that’s not an accident. Unlike professional athletes, they are really young adults who play for fun and have another full-time job. There are real differences between one school and another. Aggies really are different from Sooners who are different from Longhorns. People’s values, ethics, cultures, and even intelligence vary by school. And because of this disorganized organization, we had multiple claims to championships, then the Bowl Alliance, then the BCS, now the playoffs. And they work.
As a result of a wonderful historical accident, college football developed a bowl system rather than a tournament. This means we had the single most important regular season of any sport. Because you went to the mythical national championship based on rankings, all kinds of ridiculous and subjective elements came into play. And the drama was, and is, incredible. But there was a problem.
With multiple ranking systems came multiple champions. And this problem needed a solution. First the Alliance, then the shitty BCS, now a four game playoff system. And indeed, the only reason for the system is to identify a true champion. And it’s fantastic. But some want to ruin it.
Contrast this with the NFL. The Super Bowl has been won by teams with a regular season record of 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5. Those teams clearly demonstrated they were not the best teams. What you had, in effect, was two separate tournaments. You had a regular season winner, with players resting for the playoffs, and a winner of the end of season tournament. No true champion.
The 2006 St. Louis Cardinals were 83-78 in the regular season. Not even close to best. Pretty close to average, actually. What else were they? Well since you ask, they were the winners of the World Series. Were they the best team? Uh, no. That system doesn’t work. 
In 2007 the Patriots went undefeated. Were they Super Bowl champs? No. But they were undeniably one of the greatest teams of all time forever and ever amen.
So this Sacred Cow, the idea that playoffs identify the “Best Team”, I’m sorry but that’s wrong. It feels good to settle it on the field, but no, you aren’t the best if you win a sudden death playoff, it’s too random. The regular season is a better gauge of the quality of your team.
So if the purpose of college football playoffs is to determine the champion, does the fifth ranked team have any claim to be the best? No chance. Never. Won’t happen.  There simply are no other teams with a valid claim to a title. Fifth best has no claim.
Expanding to eight teams simply invalidates the idea that the winner is the best team, aka true champion. It just means we had two tournaments, the regular season, and another tournament after the regular season. You can drop two games, still get in. Who cares. I mean, let’s just do like NCAA basketball where nobody even watches the regular season. Expanding means the regular season doesn’t matter.
Don’t get me started on people who think “conference champions” matter. They do, but they’re also arbitrary. You can have two great teams from the same conference, a great team with no conference, or no teams from a conference. The conferences are college football’s version of OPEC, trying to monopolize the money.
College football has the single best regular season and has stumbled ass backwards into the best way to determine its champion. Let’s not fuck it up by delegitimizing the regular season.
a3039d5b74e5165977889325c2ece0c9.jpgebb3bbc8e7cbfefd917577cb7800a49d.jpg7628bd2315260c66156ffddcef62d9fb.jpg1db22a273bc57c924535baf177b18d4b.jpg8efd86013da2ac38cd8863f1674a6933.jpg758308f478995b915d038db641869bf1.jpge3c18d508fe8cdff58157aec0c1d4fc4.jpgb7b69f24ee9fa3963e279466febe0b1c.jpg

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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3 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Seriously, anyone who makes the "Best Team" argument isn't an actual sports fan.  That's fucking beauty contest shit. 

If you're arguing for "Best Team," then you shouldn't even want bowl games.  Hell, you should right now want to cancel all games for the rest of the season and award Alabama the Best Team trophy, because they're obviously the Best Team.  

Before the NFL was the NFL, we declared the champion after the end of the regular season. People understood that bowl games were exhibitions.

09nixon_large.jpg

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Junior Miller

Junior Miller 1502

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43 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Wait so a 4 team playoff with 5 P5 conferences is perfect? Got it. It would really make the NFL interesting if they just told the NFC East champ "sorry you are out of the playoff even though you won your division."

This stuff will and has always been a beauty contest and it will continue to be until you expand to 8 teams, 8 is perfect. Conference champions are automatic and then after the conference champions you take the next 3 highest ranked teams, possibly giving the Boise States and UCFs of the world a chance.

EDIT: The above is what will most likely happen if we go to to an 8 team playoff; I however, would like to go to an 8 team playoff, do away with a biased committee and re-introduce a better version of the BCS system with a little bit higher emphasis on SOS, and let that system determine the best 8 teams and then let those teams duke it out. I thought the BCS actually was pretty accurate, people just hated the fact that it determined a 2 team championship game, especially in 2008 when we were more than deserving of a shot at it.

Yep. 8 team playoff. All committee and human bias is done away with. BCS style computer system ranks all teams. 5 p5 champions get automatics. The 3 highest ranked non conference champions get remaining 3 slots. Pair off 1v8, 2v7, etc. and get the hittin' started. 

Now that... Would be as perfect (and clean) as it's gonna get. 

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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13 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

1. By this logic why even have a National Championship game? 

........

In 2008 you don't think an 8 team playoff with (1) Oklahoma vs (8) Penn State, (2) Florida vs (7) Texas Tech, (3) Texas vs (6) Utah (who went on to beat Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, and (4) Alabama vs (5) USC, would have been exciting?

........

Utah finished 13-0 that year, they deserved a shot at the national titles just as much as anybody.

1. The NC determines the champion, that's why.

2. Tech should be in it for the best team? Not even once were they in the ball park. Didn't say it wouldn't be "exciting". More games always are. But it's not going to help you find a champion.

3. Wrong. Really, really wrong.

Really, if your best arguments don't even make sense, I can't go there with you.

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Magus Ossis

Magus Ossis 2784

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3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Before the NFL was the NFL, we declared the champion after the end of the regular season. People understood that bowl games were exhibitions.

09nixon_large.jpg

Yeah. Let’s look for the 2018 equivalent of Tricky Dick so he can be the savior of cfb. I won’t cr this up by offering nominations.

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46936

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OP sounds like a fucking moron. No other sport does the "playoffs" the way college football does theirs. Not even the divisions under FBS. The "playoffs" are fucking terrible as they don't even take into account every P5 conference winner.

The only sport where a team can go undefeated and not be recognized as anything. They get to play in a glorified scrimmage.

The bowl system is so fucking lame yet so many enjoy it. They don't count and are scrimmages. Every single one of them besides the 3 playoff games. The rest are meaningless. It's a sport that only cares about the revenue and nothing else.

Edited by Vic Mackey
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Tex Pete

Tex Pete 20179

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It is not perfect. The Big 12 added a championship game because, though all conference teams play each other, the playoff would not accept a Big 12 champion without a championship game. At the same time, schools from other conferences that don’t win their conference’s  championship game are eligible, while other teams are excluded altogether after winning their championship outright. 

The system is moronic. Less moronic than it was, but still moronic. 

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chase25

chase25 2048

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1 minute ago, Thetexashammer said:

1. The NC determines the champion, that's why.

2. Tech should be in it for the best team? Not even once were they in the ball park. Didn't say it wouldn't be "exciting". More games always are. But it's not going to help you find a champion.

3. Wrong. Really, really wrong.

Really, if your best arguments don't even make sense, I can't go there with you.

Your argument doesn't make sense lol.. You're defeating your own argument by saying a 4 team playoff is a perfect system numb nuts.. What claim does the 4th ranked team have on being the champion. Lets just use your logic and go back to 1970 and just crown a champion at the end of the regular season.

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Upgrayedd

Upgrayedd 5806

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I’m in the minority, but I liked it the way it was.  Cotton in the morning.  Rose in the afternoon.  Orange and Sugar at night.  Fiesta somewhere in between.  All the games on New Years Day.  Shake it out if there is a tie in voting, meh.  More topics to discuss at the bar.  Get off my lawn.

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El Squared

El Squared 1793

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More and more CFP is evolving into diving and gymnastics with multiple agendas at play for the judges on the selection committee.

It’s  already dealing with frequent meddling from referees and very little accounting, then mix in the networks manipulation and hype machines, conference hype machines, and non uniform conference and OOC and CCG policies. The argument that the regular season doesn’t matter is already somewhat happening due to the current unbalanced system.

Then comes the final beauty contest from the “ committee” that makes up criterion on the fly.

Fighting thru a regular season and an 8 team playoff would be a bit more fair and not less exciting , and make the CCG rules the same for all conferences as well as some OOC guidelines.

Edited by El Squared
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JohnnyRage

JohnnyRage 1617

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8 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I agree in principal that we don't want to water it down, but we cannot have undefeated teams not have a chance to play for the title. We cannot have a repeat of 2017 UCF.  If that problem is fixed then it will be perfect.

Wasn't the problem leaving them out to put in a one loss blue blood that didn't make their conference championship game and put in two teams from the same conference?

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chase25

chase25 2048

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9 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Before the NFL was the NFL, we declared the champion after the end of the regular season. People understood that bowl games were exhibitions.

09nixon_large.jpg

Geez, just go ahead and say you'd like our 2005 national championship to be revoked while you're at it. According to everybody but us USC was the greatest team of all time, just retroactively give it to USC.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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2 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Geez, just go ahead and say you'd like our 2005 national championship to be revoked while you're at it. According to everybody but us USC was the greatest team of all time, just retroactively give it to USC.

Good sir, may I gently request that you argue that something I said was bad, rather than something I didn't say?

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hpslugga

hpslugga 4044

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1 hour ago, Thetexashammer said:

They playoffs are perfect the way they are, and changing them by adding more teams would harm the sport irreparably by lessening the importance of the regular season. And if you disagree with me, then you, sir, are worse than Hitler.

The beauty of college football is unique among sports, as is our system for determining a champion. And that’s not an accident. Unlike professional athletes, they are really young adults who play for fun and have another full-time job. There are real differences between one school and another. Aggies really are different from Sooners who are different from Longhorns. People’s values, ethics, cultures, and even intelligence vary by school. And because of this disorganized organization, we had multiple claims to championships, then the Bowl Alliance, then the BCS, now the playoffs. And they work.

As a result of a wonderful historical accident, college football developed a bowl system rather than a tournament. This means we had the single most important regular season of any sport. Because you went to the mythical national championship based on rankings, all kinds of ridiculous and subjective elements came into play. And the drama was, and is, incredible. But there was a problem.

With multiple ranking systems came multiple champions. And this problem needed a solution. First the Alliance, then the shitty BCS, now a four game playoff system. And indeed, the only reason for the system is to identify a true champion. And it’s fantastic. But some want to ruin it.

Contrast this with the NFL. The Super Bowl has been won by teams with a regular season record of 9-7, 10-6, or 11-5. Those teams clearly demonstrated they were not the best teams. What you had, in effect, was two separate tournaments. You had a regular season winner, with players resting for the playoffs, and a winner of the end of season tournament. No true champion.

The 2006 St. Louis Cardinals were 83-78 in the regular season. Not even close to best. Pretty close to average, actually. What else were they? Well since you ask, they were the winners of the World Series. Were they the best team? Uh, no. That system doesn’t work. 

In 2007 the Patriots went undefeated. Were they Super Bowl champs? No. But they were undeniably one of the greatest teams of all time forever and ever amen.

So this Sacred Cow, the idea that playoffs identify the “Best Team”, I’m sorry but that’s wrong. It feels good to settle it on the field, but no, you aren’t the best if you win a sudden death playoff, it’s too random. The regular season is a better gauge of the quality of your team.

So if the purpose of college football playoffs is to determine the champion, does the fifth ranked team have any claim to be the best? No chance. Never. Won’t happen.  There simply are no other teams with a valid claim to a title. Fifth best has no claim.

Expanding to eight teams simply invalidates the idea that the winner is the best team, aka true champion. It just means we had two tournaments, the regular season, and another tournament after the regular season. You can drop two games, still get in. Who cares. I mean, let’s just do like NCAA basketball where nobody even watches the regular season. Expanding means the regular season doesn’t matter.

Don’t get me started on people who think “conference champions” matter. They do, but they’re also arbitrary. You can have two great teams from the same conference, a great team with no conference, or no teams from a conference. The conferences are college football’s version of OPEC, trying to monopolize the money.

College football has the single best regular season and has stumbled ass backwards into the best way to determine its champion. Let’s not fuck it up by delegitimizing the regular season.

Emotionally-driven horseshit. Completely self-serving, and there is no truth in it. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54001

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8 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

1. The NC determines the champion, that's why.

This is just an idiotic, incongruent, contradictory argument to make, given this:

Quote

Expanding to eight teams simply invalidates the idea that the winner is the best team, aka true champion.

 

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chase25

chase25 2048

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1 minute ago, Thetexashammer said:

Good sir, may I gently request that you argue that something I said was bad, rather than something I didn't say?

"Before the NFL was the NFL, we declared the champion after the end of the regular season. People understood that bowl games were exhibitions."

Exactly what you said, with this system USC is the 2005 national champion. If advocating for that system is the hill you would like to die on than be my guest.

A 4 team playoff defeats your own argument so I don't even understand why you're arguing that it is perfect, but to each their own

 

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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2 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

"Before the NFL was the NFL, we declared the champion after the end of the regular season. People understood that bowl games were exhibitions."

Exactly what you said, with this system USC is the 2005 national champion. If advocating for that system is the hill you would like to die on than be my guest.

A 4 team playoff defeats your own argument so I don't even understand why you're arguing that it is perfect, but to each their own

 

OK I'll restate what I said in fewer words. The old system had a problem. It didn't generate a true champion. The four team playoff solves the problem. Though you insist otherwise, I did not call for returning to the system from 50 years ago. In fact, I explicitly rejected it.

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ztejas

ztejas 43266

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2 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

OK I'll restate what I said in fewer words. The old system had a problem. It didn't generate a true champion. The four team playoff solves the problem. Though you insist otherwise, I did not call for returning to the system from 50 years ago. In fact, I explicitly rejected it.

Either way saying bowl games are fucking "exhibitions" is comical. 

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chase25

chase25 2048

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

OK I'll restate what I said in fewer words. The old system had a problem. It didn't generate a true champion. The four team playoff solves the problem. Though you insist otherwise, I did not call for returning to the system from 50 years ago. In fact, I explicitly rejected it.

How does a 4 team playoff solve the problem?

 

1 hour ago, Thetexashammer said:

1. What claim would the fifth ranked team have on being the champion? None can be the only answer. 

This is exactly what you said, please enlighten me in your subjective universe what claim the 4th ranked team has at a national championship over the 5th ranked team. You can't objectively give me a reason and that is the point. You are just arbitrarily predetermining that there are only 4 teams deserving of having a claim at being the "national champion".

Edited by Texas25
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Surly Bevo

Surly Bevo 24696

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The European soccer leagues have the single most important regular season of any sport.  Each team plays every team twice home and away....he who comes out the best out of that is the winner.  At one point baseball was really damn close to this with 2 leagues, etc.  

Not feasible in football, but that's the most pure way to declare a champion.

Once you step in to post seasons it's just a matter of how far you want to go.  For me 4 of 129 probably isn't quite far enough...that's me though.  

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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1 minute ago, Texas25 said:

How does a 4 team playoff solve the problem?

 

This is exactly what you said please enlighten me in your subjective universe what claim the 4th ranked team has at a national championship over the 5th ranked team. You can't objectively give me a reason and that is the point. You are just arbitrarily predetermining that there are only 4 teams deserving of having a claim at being the "national champion".

1. Nobody argues the playoff is failing to identify a champion. Literally nobody. 

2. I suppose you could have 2 play 3, and the winner plays 1. But that doesn't seem right. If you have a better idea, I am open to suggestions. 

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