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The playoff system is perfect. Let's not fuck it up.

Thetexashammer

By Thetexashammer
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chase25

chase25 2048

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

1. Nobody argues the playoff is failing to identify a champion. Literally nobody. 

2. I suppose you could have 2 play 3, and the winner plays 1. But that doesn't seem right. If you have a better idea, I am open to suggestions. 

So we have gone from you claiming that a 4 team playoff is perfect, to "do you have a better idea". There are 129 FBS teams, everybody agrees that only a small fraction of that have a realistic shot at winning a "national championship". Under know circumstance do I believe that a 4 team playoff, when you have 129 teams, is the right solution.

There is no answer but I believe there is a pretty significant majority that believe that an 8 team playoff is about as good as we are going to get, any less and I don't believe you include enough teams that are deserving, any more and I believe you dilute the process. Some years there are clearly 2 top teams like in 2005, sometimes it isn't clear like in 2008, there will never be a perfect system.

Edited by Texas25
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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 18193

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

RashPaleBasenji-max-1mb.gif

uh, i think thetexashammer came away with the complete opposite point that Leach was making. He thought it would be easy and is done at every other level.

tth, maybe take a timeout on trying to have ideas.

Edited by Dahobbs
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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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28 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Exactly what you said, with this system USC is the 2005 national champion. If advocating for that system is the hill you would like to die on than be my guest.

A better example is the 2009 championship game. I guess it was "settled on the field". But in my opinion, we were the better team and we didn't get to really find out who was better because our best player left the field on the second drive. There's your champion, determined by an injury not merit. My very humble hypothesis is that over an entire season, you find out more than you do from a single game.

In 2008, the penalty we received for letting Crabtree into the end zone was we didn't go to the MNC. That was a fair penalty for having a walk on safety who can't catch a fucking ball that hit him in the numbers and a coach too stupid to run down the clock before scoring. 

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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6 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

uh, i think thetexashammer came away with the complete opposite point that Leach was making. He thought it would be easy and is done at every other level.

tth, maybe take a timeout on trying to have ideas.

Oh I firmly recognize I am in the minority. Fuck it, let's have 64 teams and a play in game.

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Valmy77

Valmy77 13567

Posted
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

1. Nobody argues the playoff is failing to identify a champion. Literally nobody. 

Literally wrong: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/sports-editor-blog/os-sp-ucf-ncaa-record-book-national-champs-20180825-story.html

They did fail. They did just last year. We have co-champions again. I know you did not forget that occurred so why say this ridiculous falsehood?

Edited by Valmy77
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chase25

chase25 2048

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3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

 

A better example is the 2009 championship game. I guess it was "settled on the field". But in my opinion, we were the better team and we didn't get to really find out who was better because our best player left the field on the second drive. There's your champion, determined by an injury not merit. My very humble hypothesis is that over an entire season, you find out more than you do from a single game.

In 2008, the penalty we received for letting Crabtree into the end zone was we didn't go to the MNC. That was a fair penalty for having a walk on safety who can't catch a fucking ball that hit him in the numbers and a coach too stupid to run down the clock before scoring. 

So for Oklahoma there is no penalty for losing on a neutral field but we were justifiably penalized for losing on the last play of the game on the road? I rest my case, there is no perfect system.

In 2009 you realize we were the #2 team in the country heading into the game. So Alabama is still your national champion at the end of the regular season.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

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3 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Literally wrong: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/sports-editor-blog/os-sp-ucf-ncaa-record-book-national-champs-20180825-story.html

They did fail. They did just last year. We have co-champions again. I know you did not forget that occurred so why say this ridiculous falsehood?

17ye3famk8pabjpg.jpg

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49912

Posted
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

Expanding to 8 means you expand to 16. 16 implies 64. And on and on. Mike Leach already described this absurdity.

 

 

You are Wrong "TheTexasHammer"....Leach is for expansion..... Hates leaving a Conference Champion Out.

He thinks CFP Committee is a JOKE...  Take a Look....

 

 

Edited by LTtxfan
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Helobious

Helobious 9755

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

I'm up for that too. 64 teams, play in game. Let's do it Y'all!!!!!

You’re making an argument akin to saying if you ever let your toddler try ice cream you might as well let them try cocaine because they’re both bad for them. It’s a slippery slope/where do you draw the line fallacy only idiots fall into. 

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Treefidy

Treefidy 1504

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The fact that we have subjective rankings and the SEC method means there are going to be faults in the ranking system.  Moving to 8 teams will have an undeserving team or two included every year, this is true, but they wont get 1 chance to luck their way to a championship, they will have to do it 3 times.  A team that can win most/all of their regular season games and then go beat 3 top 10 teams is your best team.

Moving to 8 makes it more likely the best team is included.  There's a serious lack of cross conference play to determine who is the best without including a large enough sample size in playoffs.  With 5 P5 and a G5 with some good teams, domer, and times when the best team had an off day like Bama at barn last year, there's often going to be a case for more than 4 yet almost never a case for more than 8.

Its possible to have 6 undefeated P5 including ND, and a G5 often goes undefeated.  Why would you not have a system that has room for those 7 teams?

Edited by Treefidy
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NWAustinDude

NWAustinDude 2266

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4 or 8 is better than 2 or 1 (by a vote of delegates).

The best team in the playoff tournament is the champion. If the best team in the regular season were made the champion, we'd be reverting back to system of 1 by a vote of delegates. Also, I like to scratch my ass with a sterling silver shrimp fork.

 

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HOOK'EMHOOAH

HOOK'EMHOOAH 1610

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2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

It shouldn't even be called a playoff if a team in the division that the championship playoff is for can go undefeated for the entire regular season and postseason and not win the championship.

If a team goes undefeated and can't get into the playoff it should be called a fuckoff, because that's what it is.

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Steamboat1874

Steamboat1874 4285

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8 would be good but 16 would be the best.

11 (I think)  D1 conference champions qualify and 5 at large teams.

Top 8 seeds play at home in the first round on the second weekend of December.

Third weekend the remaining top 4 seeds play at home.

Last weekend (or January 1) you play the semi-finals at neutral sites (Bowl Games).

Take a week off and play the championship game.

No brainer.

And how great would December football be?

And don't give me that shit about the regular season wouldn't matter any more. That is bullshit. The non-conference games would be more significant because being seeded higher, ie: playing better non-conference teams, would increase your chance of playing at home in the playoffs and winning your conference would get you in automatically.

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Bevo14

Bevo14 8468

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12 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

1. What claim would the fifth ranked team have on being the champion? None can be the only answer. 

2. What if a conference is down, and the best ranked team is like 15th or 20th best? Who would think that is valid?

Second place is first loser. Why do I care about the seventh place or eighth place team? 

1. Uh because usually there's no objective basis to have that team ranked fifth in the first place due to a limited 12 game regular season where most teams don't play each other or common opponents?

2. Then they'll get passed up by someone higher ranked.

I think a 6 team playoff would be great.

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1748

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11 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

OK I'll restate what I said in fewer words. The old system had a problem. It didn't generate a true champion. The four team playoff solves the problem. Though you insist otherwise, I did not call for returning to the system from 50 years ago. In fact, I explicitly rejected it.

No, it doesn't. If there is a Power 5 conference, and only 4 teams get into the playoff, you aren't getting the best of the best. The counter argument is that all P5 conferences are not made equal. The ACC and Pac-12 aren't on par with the SEC, for example. So if the intent is to determine the best college football team, we have to make room for the possibility that the 2 best teams in the country may be in the same conference or even the same division. I'd argue that Texas and ou were the best teams in 2008 despite the fact that Florida won the MNC. Florida just had a better game than ou. Same thing with 2009. Had Colt not gotten injured on the 6th play, we could have assessed who the better team was that year as we lost all of our offense and experience on that injury. The Top 4 teams will be voted on by Coaches an the AP writers, both of which have inherent biases. The loss factor is also suspect. Is it better to lose to unranked Maryland by 5 points your first game or Top 25 ranked LSU by 17 in Week 10? You could argue that a loss early in the season is not indicative of how good a team is at the end on the season even if said loss wasn't against a higher ranked opponent.

The problem is that we have to have some illusion that these are STUDENT athletes. There are only so many games they can reasonably play to maintain the academic aspect of the equation.

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BigOrange1

BigOrange1 6608

Posted
Posted
  • 8 teams
  • every conference plays 9 conference games
  • all P5 conference champions make the playoff
  • top ranked non-P5 team makes the playoff
  • top ranked non-P5 team and final 2 playoff teams are determined by "bcs" type formula
  • bcs type formula also determines seeding
  • first round games take place at the home stadium of the higher ranked team
  • semifinals and finals are in neutral site settings as they are now

the end.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 34407

Posted
Posted
  • 8 teams
  • every conference plays 9 conference games
  • all P5 conference champions make the playoff
  • top ranked non-P5 team makes the playoff
  • top ranked non-P5 team and final 2 playoff teams are determined by "bcs" type formula
  • bcs type formula also determines seeding
  • first round games take place at the home stadium of the higher ranked team
  • semifinals and finals are in neutral site settings as they are now
the end.
I like this other than forcing a schedule type on the conferences. One you guarantee a playoff berth for the champion they should be able to decide that how they want. You will no longer be comparing champions to each other for getting into the playoffs
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Eskimohorn

Eskimohorn 5677

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There’s a lot of worthy scenarios out there, but can agree that expanding playoff entries in a 128-team league would not dilute the value of the regular season. Thats some bullshit. We only get 12 games.

Additionally, the advantage of conference champs (automatic playoff qualification) means that those games mean more and we know the significance of more games. Better football, more drama, less style points.

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FloridaHorn

FloridaHorn 4864

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17 hours ago, ClubWhatever said:

Way way TL.   This is the ADD generation.  You have to be able to tell your story in 3 bullet points or GTFO.   I did read the thread title and was wondering who “us” is.  

I'm to old to be in the ADD generations, and even I couldn't get through the entire thing.

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Parliament

Parliament 14562

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No system is perfect, but a 8 game playoff would be a step back. Ohio State and Penn State played a game in September, with the loser likely being out of the playoff. That loser still had incentive to take care of business in case a whole buncha teams lost, and for the chance to play in a NY6 game.

The change I would make is you gotta be the conf champ to go in, and only 1 team per conference. That 1 conference that doesn't get in? Tough titties. Try again next year.

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Treefidy

Treefidy 1504

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9 hours ago, Eskimohorn said:

There’s a lot of worthy scenarios out there, but can agree that expanding playoff entries in a 128-team league would not dilute the value of the regular season. Thats some bullshit. We only get 12 games.

Additionally, the advantage of conference champs (automatic playoff qualification) means that those games mean more and we know the significance of more games. Better football, more drama, less style points.

put a heavy lean on SOS for the 2 at large in an 8 team playoff.  OOC losses will mean less with guaranteed conference champs getting a spot, and heavy SOS so we get more, better P5 matchups.  

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