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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7,171

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I have two thoughts on lsu this year.

First, I'm confused about why the offense has regressed so much because several of our resident tigah fans assured me that the offense was not Brady's and that his departure would not significantly impact them.

Second, it would have been really nice to have that trip to death valley this year to pad our stats a bit.

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Armybrat

Armybrat 40,840

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1 hour ago, LTtxfan said:

Crazy... LSU was 15 -0 last year

Now already 3 losses after only 5 games.  What's the record for most losses the year following an undefeated season with the same Head Coach??

7 might be your lucky number if you ask this guy....and don’t include the NCG.

 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49,185

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2 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Yeah 2010 Texas doesn't meet the exact criterion set forth since 2009 wasn't undefeated, but if the intent is to point out a massive fall from the pinnacle, then the 2010 Horns certainly did that in craptacular fashion.

 

No doubt...

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49,185

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7 minutes ago, Blotto said:

https://www.bannersociety.com/2020/2/10/21115053/college-football-defending-national-champions

Great article... Thanks!!

College football’s 14 worst defending national champs, categorized

 

Category 7: The championship wasn’t in New Orleans, so LSU wasn’t allowed to play

2008 LSU
Record: 8-5
SRS ranking: 37th

I am kidding. But only sort of.

The 2007 Tigers were a relatively weak champion. They had two losses (albeit both in triple overtime) and made the title game because all the other contenders ate each other. The entire 2007 season was chaos, and LSU was the team that fell victim at exactly the right times. Then QB Matt Flynn, some of his best skill weapons, and a bunch of key line starters left.

LSU was not the title favorite in 2008. They started seventh and wound up being OK.

 

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DanTheHorn

DanTheHorn 4,922

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2 hours ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I have two thoughts on lsu this year.

First, I'm confused about why the offense has regressed so much because several of our resident tigah fans assured me that the offense was not Brady's and that his departure would not significantly impact them.

Second, it would have been really nice to have that trip to death valley this year to pad our stats a bit.

Haha haha nice joke. Are you watching? Tom would have found a way to under perform.

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SwanderedTalent

SwanderedTalent 5,761

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3 hours ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

First, I'm confused about why the offense has regressed so much because several of our resident tigah fans assured me that the offense was not Brady's and that his departure would not significantly impact them.

there were also plenty of idiots around here lauding Ed Orgeron's coaching acumen

after all HE WON A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP PEOPLE only the great ones do that

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6,021

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4 hours ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

I have two thoughts on lsu this year.

First, I'm confused about why the offense has regressed so much because several of our resident tigah fans assured me that the offense was not Brady's and that his departure would not significantly impact them.

Second, it would have been really nice to have that trip to death valley this year to pad our stats a bit.

Many ppl were saying they could drop offensive productivity 25% and it wouldn't make a shit

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49,185

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Down to only 66 scholarship players??

LSU's Scholarship Numbers: The Present and Future

BySHEA DIXON 16 hours ago

The LSU football team was sitting around 75 scholarship players when fall camp began, a low number that head coach Ed Orgeron referenced multiple times this offseason given the attrition that came from the 2019 National Championship roster.

Fast forward a little more than three months, and the numbers have only grown more troublesome.  With No. 6 Florida on tap for Saturday in Gainesville, and a home game against Ole Miss likely to follow, the Tigers enter the final stretch of the 2020 season with 66 scholarship players.

The number doesn't include walk-ons who have been awarded a single-season scholarship, but rather just the full-time scholarship players who were labeled as an initial counter to a signing class. The NCAA allows a program to sign a maximum of 25 new players each season, whether that be a high school recruit, junior college prospect, or transfer from another program. The NCAA's scholarship limit is set at 85 players for each college program, which teams stay below through things like graduation, natural attrition, or early departures for the NFL Draft.

For Orgeron, the 66 scholarship players is a low number, and that's boosted a small amount by including kickoff specialist Avery Atkins and punter Zach Von Rosenberg as part of the total. Both were walk-ons who were not counted towards the 25-man limit in any signing class, but they're included here in the overall numbers given both are starters and leaned upon heavily as key pieces to the roster. Kicker Cade York and long snapper Quentin Skinner are also included in the numbers given both were full scholarship players and signed with the Tigers out of high school, with both counting towards the 25-man limit in the 2019 signing class for Orgeron.

How did the Tigers find themselves more than 20 players short of the NCAA's roster limit? Can the numbers turn around in one offseason? 

Here's the breakdown on where the scholarship numbers stand now, the recap on each name gone from the 2019 roster, and what it all means for the future as Orgeron tries to rebuild a championship team in Baton Rouge.

THE NFL DRAFT (20)

NFL Draft: 20 (11 seniors, 9 underclassmen)

Underclassmen Departures for NFL Draft: (9)

OLB K’Lavon Chaisson (Round 1)

WR Justin Jefferson (Round 1)

LB Patrick Queen (Round 1)

RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire (Round 1)

S Grant Delpit (Round 2)

C Lloyd Cushenberry (Round 3)

LB Jacob Phillips (Round 3)

OT Saahdiq Charles (Round 4)

TE Thaddeus Moss (undrafted)

*** The NFL Draft hit LSU hard, with the Tigers tying the NFL Draft record with 14 players selected across the seven rounds of this offseason's draft. It was plenty of key pieces to the 15-0 season that culminated in a National Championship, highlighted at the top by No. 1 overall pick Joe Burrow.

And a closer look at the numbers reveals the reality that there wasn't too much the Tigers could do when it came to convincing underclassmen to stick around. The Tigers set a school record by having five players selected in the first-round, and four were underclassmen. Three more underclassmen were selected in rounds two and three, and while Grant Delpit suffered a season-ending injury, both Lloyd Cushenberry and Jacob Phillips have logged NFL starts as rookies. Charles was in-and-out of LSU's lineup a year ago for a violation of team rules, and his departure saw him selected in the fourth round. The lone undrafted player from the crop of nine underclassmen to turn pro was Thaddeus Moss, who was battling through lingering injuries all season and was prepared to move on to the NFL Draft following stops at two colleges in four seasons. 

There have been plenty of hits to LSU's roster, and 20 names entering the NFL Draft pool at once will certainly sting. But, a healthy majority of the underclassmen who left after the perfect season had draft grades that supported the move, which isn't something that would result in the program being viewed through a negative lens. 

THE OFFSEASON DEPARTURES (10)

Left before the season: 10

S Eric Monroe (transferred: Texas Tech)

K Connor Culp (transferred: Nebraska)

OT Donavaughn Campbell (transferred: Louisiana Tech)

TE Jamal Pettigrew (transferred: McNeese State)

DE Justin Thomas (transferred: UAB)

LB Marcel Brooks (transferred: TCU)

DE TK McLendon (transfer portal)

QB Peter Parrish (suspended, transferred: Memphis)

LB Donte Starks (suspended, dismissed from team)

OT Jakori Savage (graduated, left with eligibility remaining)

There were 10 players who still had remaining eligibility, but left the program before the Tigers entered fall camp.

The offseason attrition hitting double-digits beyond the NFL Draft pool comes with a variety of reasons. Six of LSU's players landed in the transfer portal and onto other rosters ahead of the 2020 season. Defensive end TK McClendon's departure from the team just before fall camp kept him in the transfer portal without a current landing spot, while two other players were suspended for a violation of team rules, which led to quarterback Peter Parrish's decision to transfer to Memphis. Linebacker Donte Starks ran into academic hurdles following his suspension that resulted in him being dismissed from the program. Savage, who was a career backup for the Tigers on both sides of the line, had a year of eligibility remaining following the National Championship season, but he didn't return to the team this offseason. 

When circling the reasons the Tigers are sitting in the mid-60s with total scholarships, losing double-digit players here - albeit for a variety of reasons - certainly is worth circling. 

FALL CAMP LEADS TO FIRST "OPT OUTS"

This is when things began to unravel even more for the current roster.

Just ahead of the 2020 season, the NCAA announced no players would be docked a year of eligibility (more on that below). There also came word of "opt-outs", which originally served as a way players could choose not to participate in the 2020 season without being penalized, whether through eligibility or through the lens of the NFL. Top prospects from around the country who were considered likely high draft picks began to shut things down, and one of the biggest dominos was LSU wide receiver Ja'Marr Chase.

Chase opted out on August 30, which was one week into fall camp and four weeks before the Tigers kicked off the season against Mississippi State.

One day later, defensive tackle Tyler Shelvin followed suit and opted-out of the 2020 season.

A little more than two weeks later, defensive back Kary Vincent Jr. opted out. All three of the aforementioned announced the decision by also revealing they were beginning to prepare for the NFL Draft and would not return to the team for the 2021 season.

Senior defensive lineman Neil Farrell briefly opted out, but later returned to the team before the season began. Defensive tackle Nelson Jenkins chose to opt out as well, but was the lone player who announced he would still return to the team in 2021, but would not take part in practices or games this fall. 

By the time the season began, Orgeron had already faced four opt-outs with only one planning to return to the team, and he had also juggled a player opting out only to then decide to opt back in. 

But fall camp would only turn into the beginning of the attrition the Tigers faced over the past 3-4 months.

PLAYERS WHO LEFT FROM FALL CAMP TO PRESENT DAY (9)

Left during fall camp to now: 9

WR Ja'Marr Chase (opt out for NFL Draft)

DT Tyler Shelvin (opt out for NFL Draft)

CB Kary Vincent Jr. (opt out for NFL Draft)

DT Nelson Jenkins (opt out, return in 2021)

OLB Ray Parker (suspended, dismissed from team)

DE Travez Moore (opt-out, transfer portal)

DT Apu Ika (transfer portal)

WR Terrace Marshall Jr (opt out for NFL Draft)

TE Arik Gilbert (opt out, TBD)

The scholarship numbers were already low when LSU prepared for fall camp sitting in the mid-70s. Losing Chase, Shelvin, and Vincent to opt-out decisions just ahead of the season opener became only the tip of the iceberg.

Ray Parker was suspended on Sep. 10, just a few weeks ahead of the opener. He was later dismissed from the team.

On October 28, with the Tigers sitting at 2-2 ahead of the Auburn game, defensive tackle Siaki Ika entered the NCAA Transfer Portal.

"We recruited him to play in the 3-4 defense. But with the 4-3 scheme, we wanted more quickness there,” Orgeron said when asked about Ika's decision. “He was struggling a little bit. I wanted him to stay. He’s more of a 3-4 nose tackle. I think he can still have a heck of a career.”

One day later, defensive end Travez Moore elected to opt-out of the 2020 season and enter the NCAA Transfer Portal.

On November 29, with games against Alabama, Florida, and Ole Miss remaining, another big domino fell. Junior wide receiver Terrace Marshall, the team's leader in catches, receiving yards and receiving touchdowns, chose to shut things down and begin preparations for the 2021 NFL Draft. 

On Monday, just nine days after Marshall's decision and in the 48 hours after a 38-point loss to No. 1 Alabama, freshman and former five-star Arik Gilbert met with Orgeron and revealed his decision to opt out of the final two games of the 2020 season.

It's unclear at this stage whether Gilbert plans to return to the team or enter the NCAA Transfer Portal, but he won't be part of practices or games moving forward this month.

THE NUMBERS NOW VS. 2021 - AND THE SAVING GRACE

LSU's current scholarship number: 66

LSU's scholarship limit in 2021: 81

LSU's maximum number of new signees allowed: 25

LSU has already self-imposed sanctions of a scholarship reduction of eight total over the next two years, which would put the Tigers at a maximum of 81 scholarship players next fall as opposed to the standard 85-man limit.

Now, the question becomes how quickly does the number fall between the current 66 scholarship players plus the 25 new signees? If the Tigers kept every single player currently on the roster from this year (which isn't a reasonable presumption), LSU would be sitting at around 91 scholarship players.

They would have to trim down by 10 to meet the 81-man limit, and that will come through natural attrition. Players will graduate and move on, others will test the NFL waters, players could transfer and others could be dismissed.

As the Tigers learned with 30 players gone between the end of the 2019 season and the start of fall camp this past August, attrition can come from all angles.

Fortunately for LSU, there's a saving grace.

The NCAA is not counting eligibility for any player this season, whether they opted out or decided to play every snap in every game.

That means seniors could return for another season when, in any other season, they would have exhausted all eligibility. And it comes as the perfect time for a staff that needs to bulk up the roster in a hurry.

There are 14 seniors on LSU's roster right now. Following a normal season, all would be moving on.

Now, LSU can pad the numbers a bit by bringing some of those seniors back. If the NCAA ruling were not in place, the Tigers would be down to 52 total scholarship players the moment the season ended. With the ability to only sign 25 new players to the team, LSU would be at a maximum of 77 players for the 2021 season - still four short of the scholarship limit in place. And that's if there was not a single underclassman leave for the NFL Draft, nobody transfers to another program and nobody is dismissed from the team before LSU kicks off the 2021 schedule.

That's not a realistic outcome in any offseason, let alone one when the NCAA will allow a penalty-free, one-time transfer to any player in college football. If the 2020 season had counted towards a player's eligibility, the Tigers could have quickly found themselves back into the 60's in total scholarship players for the 2021 season - which is the same range they moved through this season with.

FINAL THOUGHTS

The biggest question now isn't just who the Tigers sign in this class. That's important, but it's more important the Tigers sign a full class of 25 with players that can step into the two-deep and make up for the roster fallout. Even with 66 scholarship players on roster now, not every player is ready to see the field, and those same players might not be ready a season from now. That means more immediate help is needed by way of instant-impact freshmen and, likely, graduates transfers. Earlier this week, Orgeron said he planned to hold some scholarship spots within the 25-man class to use on the transfer market this offseason.

The bigger question: how does Orgeron and the staff do at recruiting inside the football operations building in Baton Rouge?

The 14 seniors will certainly be key to recruiting back to the roster, as to are all the different underclassmen who could entertain leaving early for the NFL Draft, which likely includes names like offensive linemen Ed Ingram and Dare Rosenthal. Orgeron will also have to keep a tight grip on players deciding to transfer by taking advantage of the NCAA's one-time, penalty-free move. That means a player could leave LSU's roster this offseason, play on another team's roster in the fall, and the Tigers wouldn't be able to get back that scholarship number.

"I wish they gave us more, but they don't," Orgeron said this week when asked about roster management during the era of the transfer portal. "We have 25 (new signees allowed), that's it. Just because a guy opts out, you don't gain another initial. That's what it makes it tough to get your roster back to 85.

"It's not my call, but hopefully in the future the NCAA changes the rule to where you can have more initials, depending on guys opting out, juniors going to the draft early, to get your roster back to 85."

Getting back to 85 scholarship players will be the goal for Orgeron, but it's likely a two-year rebuild between the 2021 and 2022 classes.

For reference, if LSU loses 10 players to the draft, transfer or dismissal this offseason, the Tigers would enter next season right at 81 scholarship players, which is the most the Tigers are allowed to have with the self-imposed sanctions. But that number could balloon beyond just 10 players gone from the roster, which means it's very likely LSU goes through the 2020 season with a scholarship total in the 70s.

If the offseason goes awry and there is an exodus beyond 10 players, or injuries occur at some point between now and the end of the 2021 season, the staff could be back into the low-70s or upper-60s with the scholarship total as they work through the 2021 season. 

Closing out the 2021 recruiting class strong with 25 signees is certainly a must, but Orgeron and Co.'s ability to re-recruit the current roster will be just as paramount.

https://247sports.com/college/lsu/LongFormArticle/LSU-Tigers-football-team-2020-scholarship-numbers-how-many-opt-outs-transfers-156419278/#156419278_10

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49,185

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15 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

This is why Ogre gets a pass for this year. Insane attrition that's largely the result of having too many NFL prospects. I have no doubt they'll get their numbers up with the new free transfer rule

May want to read article again... Only way LSU can get current roster numbers up for 2021 is to retain as many seniors currently at LSU because of Covid  roster exception for seniors.

Transfers won't help scholarship numbers unless LSU signs less than 25 in 2021 class... and that's probably not a viable option. Roster issues could really become a huge dumpster fire for Coach O.

 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49,185

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Ed Orgeron weighs in on Arik Gilbert's decision

On Monday afternoon, the Geaux247 staff reported LSU tight end Arik Gilbert is considering leaving LSU and missed the team's Monday's practice.

https://247sports.com/college/lsu/Article/Arik-Gilbert-considering-leaving-LSU-misses-Monday-practice-transfer-Ed-Orgeron-quote-156392988/

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ousux

ousux 5,597

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I've never seen a national championship team crash so hard the following year. Sure all your Seniors and Juniors will go while their stock is the highest it will be, but LSU recruits top 10-15 nearly every year, there should be some hosses left.

Seems the Ogre joins such luminaries as Gene Chizik who lucked into a transcendent QB who lifted the team on their shoulders. Guess MB could be in this club, but he did almost do it again 4 years later..and didn't completely tank the year following the best Championship game in CFB history..

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Don Johnson

Don Johnson 4,753

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40 minutes ago, ousux said:

I've never seen a national championship team crash so hard the following year. Sure all your Seniors and Juniors will go while their stock is the highest it will be, but LSU recruits top 10-15 nearly every year, there should be some hosses left.

Seems the Ogre joins such luminaries as Gene Chizik who lucked into a transcendent QB who lifted the team on their shoulders. Guess MB could be in this club, but he did almost do it again 4 years later..and didn't completely tank the year following the best Championship game in CFB history..

I mean, what they lost is insane.  A record number of players drafted - 14.  5 first rounders.  The #1 overall pick and Heisman winner.

Then they lose 4 more future NFL players to opting out, including the best WR in country.

On top of that they lost their DC to Baylor and their OC (essentially) to the Panthers.

But, I agree they still should be a .500 team with the talent they have on the roster.  Orgeron made terrible hires and Bo Pelini was the worst of them all.

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TommyGufano

TommyGufano 6,021

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57 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

I mean, what they lost is insane.  A record number of players drafted - 14.  5 first rounders.  The #1 overall pick and Heisman winner.

Then they lose 4 more future NFL players to opting out, including the best WR in country.

On top of that they lost their DC to Baylor and their OC (essentially) to the Panthers.

But, I agree they still should be a .500 team with the talent they have on the roster.  Orgeron made terrible hires and Bo Pelini was the worst of them all.

Let's not to lose sight of how the fanbase thought they were going to do despite the above (bolding is my own; one just for hilarious spelling):

On 2/6/2020 at 2:03 PM, Kyrie Eleison said:

in no way did i say or imply it would be replicated.

but it's fucking foolish to say that we'll be an easy out due to attrition.

we reload...not rebuild.

 

On 2/6/2020 at 1:55 PM, Kyrie Eleison said:

the great thing about the season we had is that our back ups got a shit ton of playing time, and many of those were started multiple games through the season.  our DL is fucking stacked...3 starters return plus a shit ton of great back ups.  our LB corp took a hit but we'll have 2 starters back in our new scheme, and our DBs return 3 starters plus some damn good ones with experience.  we'll have Chase and Marshall at receiver, RB will be by committee with TDP, Curry and Emery finally up to speed after having his eye surgery...he was literally legally blind in his right eye last season...and 3 return on the OL.  

Brennan won't be Burrow, but no one in the nation will be Burrow given his record setting season.  Brennan is damn good though, and i'm perfectly comfortable with him.

we could drop some 25% production and STILL be one of the top 3 teams in the land.  we've got a system in place, and we're sticking to it....and confidence in what we do.  what we did last year was paradigm shifting in terms of how offense is played at this level and if you don't believe me i'll let Aranda explain what it was like to experience it first hand and just how different it is to everything else out there...start at the 13:00 min. mark.

https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS83OVUzUnZDag&episode=MmIyZWRlYzEtYWQ2ZS00OTQ5LThkZWEtNzVhNmQyNzY3Mjg1&hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwin0tLqgrjnAhVIeawKHSz4CWcQieUEegQIBRAE&ep=6

and until you prove you can do it, after your recent history, i'll remain sceptical of any claim of future success against LSU.

 

 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49,185

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LSU football self-imposes one-year bowl ban for 2020 season 

Alex Scarborough    ESPN Staff Writer

LSU will forgo participating in a bowl game this season, adding to the list of self-imposed sanctions stemming from the NCAA's investigation into improper booster payments to its football players.

The school announced the self-imposed bowl ban on Wednesday night.

LSU, which is 3-5 with two games remaining on its schedule, could have finished the regular season under .500 and still been eligible to participate in a bowl game because the NCAA waived bowl eligibility requirements this season in order to provide greater flexibility during the COVID-19 pandemic.

ESPN reported last month that LSU had self-imposed a loss of eight scholarships over two years; a reduction in recruiting visits, evaluations and communication; and a ban of Cleveland Browns wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. from its football facilities for two years.

LSU's football program is charged with a Level III violation involving Beckham, a former Tigers star, who gave $2,000 in cash to four Tigers football players on the field after the team's 42-25 victory over Clemson in the College Football Playoff National Championship game on Jan. 13.

In a statement released on Wednesday night, the school said the additional action taken represents its "commitment to compliance with NCAA regulations and maintenance of institutional control."

"I respect the university's decision to proactively address NCAA issues from the past," coach Ed Orgeron said in a statement. "I share the disappointment of our student-athletes who will not be able to compete this season in a bowl game. I am especially proud of our players' dedication to the program during these unprecedented times in our country. Their pride in LSU will be the driving force as we continue to build a championship program. Geaux Tigers."

The NCAA's investigation into the football program is part of a larger inquiry that has gone on for three years.

In a document released to ESPN by the university in August, NCAA vice president of enforcement Jonathan Duncan wrote that LSU men's basketball coach Will Wade either arranged for or offered "impermissible payments" to at least 11 potential recruits or others around them.

Duncan wrote that the NCAA enforcement staff received information that Wade "arranged for, offered and/or provided impermissible payments, including cash payments, to at least 11 men's basketball prospective student-athletes, their family members, individuals associated with the prospects and/or nonscholastic coaches in exchange for the prospects' enrollment at LSU."

The allegations were included in the NCAA enforcement staff's request that its infractions case involving the LSU men's basketball and football programs be adjudicated through the independent accountability resolution process, which was created to handle complex cases. LSU was hoping to adjudicate the football case through the traditional NCAA infractions process.

The most serious allegation related to LSU's football program involves booster John Paul Funes, a former CEO of a hospital foundation whom the enforcement staff accused of "providing funds to the families of current and former student-athletes, arranging for members of the institution's football staff to use a private plane and offering internships to football student-athletes."

The NCAA enforcement staff confirmed that Funes "arranged employment beginning in 2012 for the parents of a then football student-athlete and paid the father $180,000 during 2012-17 for a no-show job."

The father, who was identified as "Individual C" in a federal indictment, is the father of former LSU offensive lineman Vadal Alexander, sources previously told ESPN.

Alexander was a four-year starter for the Tigers from 2012 to 2015. His father, James Alexander, is a self-employed entrepreneur in Atlanta.

In October, Funes pleaded guilty to embezzling more than $500,000 from the hospital foundation and giving some of the money to the parents of two former LSU players. He was sentenced to 33 months in federal prison.

LSU was notified of the allegations by the hospital in November 2018, and former university president F. King Alexander and former athletic director Joe Alleva informed the NCAA of the matter the same day, according to the school's attorneys.

Information from ESPN's Mark Schlabach and Adam Rittenberg was used in this report.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/30486292/lsu-football-self-imposes-one-year-bowl-ban-2020-season

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A’Dam Psycho

A’Dam Psycho 1,470

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19 hours ago, Don Johnson said:

I mean, what they lost is insane.  A record number of players drafted - 14.  5 first rounders.  The #1 overall pick and Heisman winner.

Then they lose 4 more future NFL players to opting out, including the best WR in country.

On top of that they lost their DC to Baylor and their OC (essentially) to the Panthers.

But, I agree they still should be a .500 team with the talent they have on the roster.  Orgeron made terrible hires and Bo Pelini was the worst of them all.

I’d feel bad for LSU if their fans weren’t such cunts. LSU fans saying all offseason that they’re gonna reload and Texas has no chance to win in Death Valley and yadda yadda. Fuck them

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