They Shall Not Grow Old - peter jackson documentary about the great war

[UpperWestside 6225]

6 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 Two Netflix docs by a British professor, David Reynolds, that you should see. 

Long Shadow - 3hrs - Puts it in historical context, and how people actually felt about It at the time, and not what we think they felt about it. 

Armistice - 1hr - puts the end in modern comtext 

I will make it a point to set aside some time and watch them. I try to think about the prism of how people thought about historical events during their time so that interests me. Thank you and I will watch both. 

[Kyle 207]

I think I caught the last show in Dallas. Amazing piece of work.

[Zepol87 9263]

They have a few more showings today in Mesquite. Only problem is you have to go to Mesquite

[MissingInAction 25331]

Go Skeeters!!

[Knoxtnhorn 6184]

Dammit.  Chose Glass over this.  Bad Idea Jeans.

I think they're showing it at Firewheel in Garland.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Knoxtnhorn

[SimonBolivar 10963]

Man it's hard to watch in spots from a sadness point of view. One thing that jumped out at me were the teeth. I mean I know they're British, but that's one thing Downton Abbey got wrong.

[TxEx84 438]

Saw it last night in Austin.  Awesome as stated.  I noticed the teeth, as well.  Dental hygiene wasn't a thing, I guess.  Should have known when one of the soldiers said they used their toothbrush for cleaning buttons on the uniform.

[Kyle 207]

Having nerded out on the Great War for several years, I had a sense of the conditions, but seeing it was remarkable. I particularly liked the comments of the veterans about the Bavarians view of the Prussians. I continue to contemplate the fact that the most important conflict of the 20th Century was fought over the most ludicrous of reasons by men who had no real animosity toward their enemy and launched buy bumbling buffoons who could have stopped it with a modicum of common sense. To be fair, virtually everyone thought it would be over by Christmas but still ... I have always gotten the sense that by Christmas 2015 all but a few politicians and generals gladly would have called "mulligan."

One veteran talked about it in the film, but since I first read the story years ago, I still tremble when I think about the soldiers who stepped off the wood planks and literally sunk and drowned in the mud. In the book, one veteran recounts seeing a young soldier stuck get stuck in the mud walking out and him almost completely submerged on his way back to the trench later in the day.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Kyle

[TwiceHorn 31705]

13 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Having nerded out on the Great War for several years, I had a sense of the conditions, but seeing it was remarkable. I particularly liked the comments of the veterans about the Bavarians view of the Prussians. I continue to contemplate the fact that the most important conflict of the 20th Century was fought over the most ludicrous of reasons by men who had no real animosity toward their enemy and launched buy bumbling buffoons who could have stopped it with a modicum of common sense. To be fair, virtually everyone thought it would be over by Christmas but still ... I have always gotten the sense that by Christmas 2015 all but a few politicians and generals gladly would have called "mulligan."

Very much agree.  You also left out "by monarchs and ruling classes closely related to each other." 

Having recently read Guns of August and Dreadnought, I marvel at how trivial and "leader-personalized"  were the international disputes giving rise to WWI.

While I agree that the postwar era set in motion a lot of longstanding world problems that may never go away, I also wonder if it just wasn't the natural result of the end of the "divine-right monarchies" of Europe that became increasingly absurd as rulers as democratic legislatures took hold.  The Great War certainly accelerated and brought those things to a head, but it seems like a lot of it was inevitable by about the time of WWII.

I recently saw a doc on Gallipoli on one of the online services and it had a lot of footage and description of trench conditions there, which seemed to be representative of those in Europe.  Pretty good one. 

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Kyle 207]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Very much agree.  You also left out "by monarchs and ruling classes closely related to each other." 

Having recently read Guns of August and Dreadnought, I marvel at how trivial and "leader-personalized"  were the international disputes giving rise to WWI.

While I agree that the postwar era set in motion a lot of longstanding world problems that may never go away, I also wonder if it just wasn't the natural result of the end of the "divine-right monarchies" of Europe that became increasingly absurd as rulers as democratic legislatures took hold.  The Great War certainly accelerated and brought those things to a head, but it seems like a lot of it was inevitable by about the time of WWII.

I recently saw a doc on Gallipoli on one of the online services and it had a lot of footage and description of trench conditions there, which seemed to be representative of those in Europe.  Pretty good one.

Agreed ... seems like virtually all historians agree not if but when, especially with Billy and his boats antagonizing the Brits. I think one of the myriad cultural transformations that existed in 1914 but not 1915 was this idea that war was a game played by aristocrats for (relatively) minor spoils ... a low cost (to the aristocrat) option, almost a sport. Two of Vicky's grandkids certainly reevaluated if that was a game worth playing.

[UpperWestside 6225]

4 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Man it's hard to watch in spots from a sadness point of view. One thing that jumped out at me were the teeth. I mean I know they're British, but that's one thing Downton Abbey got wrong.

I cannot get that young man's face out of my head that looked right at the camera on the Sunken Road. That was the saddest part for me. 

We're a century out from the "War to end all wars" and humanity has learned little to nothing since then. I respect the hell out of all those men who fought in those conditions.

That hygiene thing though...I mean I know we make fun of the Brits still to a degree about their teeth, but Good Lord I think many of those young men never used a toothbrush. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by UpperWestside

[Post Oak 20365]

"Where have you been?  On nights? "

[cactusflinthead 27615]

I received a copy of "Goodbye to All That" for my birthday. It's in the stack.

Thanks to you buncha aholes I spent the rest of the day listening to Carlin.

I hope they give it a wider audience because I ain't hauling my ass to Mesquite. 

[Kyle 207]

11 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

I received a copy of "Goodbye to All That" for my birthday. It's in the stack.

Thanks to you buncha aholes I spent the rest of the day listening to Carlin.

I hope they give it a wider audience because I ain't hauling my ass to Mesquite. 

Just to piss you off more ... I really enjoyed The History of the Great War podcast. Not as slick and less analysis than Carlin but more detail.

[Zepol87 9263]

12 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

I received a copy of "Goodbye to All That" for my birthday. It's in the stack.

Thanks to you buncha aholes I spent the rest of the day listening to Carlin.

I hope they give it a wider audience because I ain't hauling my ass to Mesquite. 

Yea I had to stay late at the office and wasn't gonna make it to Mesquite in time with the 635 shitshow. 

[Art Vandelay 1712]

23 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

I hope they give it a wider audience because I ain't hauling my ass to Mesquite. 

Looks like you'll get your wish. As will I since I haven't seen it yet either.

Quote

BURBANK, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan 23, 2019--Warner Bros. Pictures is widening the front for Peter Jackson’s widely acclaimed World War I documentary, “They Shall Not Grow Old.” The studio will expand the release of the film to 500 theatres across 150 markets throughout the U.S. and Canada, beginning on Friday, February 1, 2019, with special pre-shows the evening before. The announcement was made today by Jeff Goldstein, President, Domestic Distribution, Warner Bros. Pictures.

Peter Jackson’s “They Shall Not Grow Old” Marches on, to 150 Markets across North America

[MissingInAction 25331]

If you live in Austin just bring me a thumb drive and I'll rip it for you.

[lateshow 1309]

On 1/23/2019 at 8:35 AM, Kyle said:

Just to piss you off more ... I really enjoyed The History of the Great War podcast. Not as slick and less analysis than Carlin but more detail.

1. Is there a Carlin podcast? What the title? (maybe dumb question)

2. What was the key conflict between the Bavarians and Prussians? 

[MissingInAction 25331]

Prussians are fucking dicks. 

[Parliament 14414]

1. Is there a Carlin podcast? What the title? (maybe dumb question)
2. What was the key conflict between the Bavarians and Prussians? 

"Blueprint to Armageddon," and it's like 18 hours long. It'll literally change your life.

[Sbbruin 21943]

On 1/22/2019 at 6:36 PM, UpperWestside said:

 

That hygiene thing though...I mean I know we make fun of the Brits still to a degree about their teeth, but Good Lord I think many of those young men never used a toothbrush. 

imgur

[Zepol87 9263]

FYi looks to be showing this week at Look in Addison. 

[Kyle 207]

On 1/24/2019 at 10:54 AM, lateshow said:

1. Is there a Carlin podcast? What the title? (maybe dumb question)

2. What was the key conflict between the Bavarians and Prussians? 

Really simple answer, but the Prussians largely unified Germany into the modern state from the vestiges of the Holy Roman Empire. Most - if not all - of the militarism of early-20th Century Germany was rooted in Prussia, and they were largely the aristocracy of Germany (the Junkers). I think the point was the Prussians pulled the rest of Germany into a stupid conflict that the Bavarians, etc., could care less about ... and at the time Germany had only been a country for < 50 years.

[bluto 4947]

That last part about Germany's age blew me away when I first learned it (embarrassingly recent)

[Post Oak 20365]

On 1/24/2019 at 11:26 AM, Parliament said:

On 1/24/2019 at 10:54 AM, lateshow said:

1. Is there a Carlin podcast? What the title? (maybe dumb question)
2. What was the key conflict between the Bavarians and Prussians? 

"Blueprint to Armageddon," and it's like 18 hours long. It'll literally change your life.

this is absolutely true and not hyperbolic at all.  I've listened to it 3 times already.  

@lateshow listen and report back

[Chad Fuck 17914]

I know this is about the movie, but it seems like the participants here would know.  I've listened to the Carlin podcast a couple times.  Have any of you listened to The History of the Great War podcast?  Seems more expansive in scope, which may be interesting.

Any other WWI podcasts you'd recommend?

[gsoda3 3317]

i saw it this weekend in a pretty much empty theater.  the faces of the men on the sunken lane waiting to go over the top knowing they were going in to the teeth of the german machine guns is so haunting. also the officer reading the speech to his men before the battle is fantastic. 

[Post Oak 20365]

42 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

I know this is about the movie, but it seems like the participants here would know.  I've listened to the Carlin podcast a couple times.  Have any of you listened to The History of the Great War podcast?  Seems more expansive in scope, which may be interesting.

Any other WWI podcasts you'd recommend?

havent listened to the one you mentioned but will add it to my app.

[kevwun 15970]

TwiceHorn already mentioned it, so I'll  have to second it.  Read Dreadnought if you are interested in the run up to WWI.  It's an amazing book.  I never wanted to finish it.

Edited February 4, 2019 by kevwun

[Biff Tannen 45791]

May have been said upthread, but Alamo picked this up.

[Kyle 207]

1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

I know this is about the movie, but it seems like the participants here would know.  I've listened to the Carlin podcast a couple times.  Have any of you listened to The History of the Great War podcast?  Seems more expansive in scope, which may be interesting.

Any other WWI podcasts you'd recommend?

I have listened to episodes of The History of the Great War and The Great War Podcast. Personally, I think Carlin my execute a podcast better than anyone I have heard, so neither are on his level in terms of insight, presentation, production, etc. However, as you noted both go into more detail and cover more aspects (sounds weird given Carlin did what, 15-20 hours on it)! I like "History" a little better, but both are good. I have enjoyed a lot of the "History" episodes post-Armistice that go into the players, dynamics, and impact of Versailles. IIRC, "History" focuses more on the long-term impact of the War, which I enjoy. The dynamics between Wilson, Clemenceau, and Lloyd George at Versailles is interesting ... I loved the Lloyd George bon mat that he was sitting between "Jesus Christ and Napoleon." Clemenceau on Wilson: "Fourteen Points? The Good Lord had only ten." ... or some such as I probably mangled them from memory.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Kyle

[Post Oak 20365]

4 hours ago, Post Oak said:

havent listened to the one you mentioned but will add it to my app.

I tried a couple eps tonight.  It's too dry for me.  I see why some would like it but it's too similar History of England for me.  

[Damor 1237]

Took my boys to see it this evening. Amazing. I'm glad I caught it - if you're at all thinking about it, make the time and go see it. Stay for the 'making-of' appendix, too.

[Mach 1 1677]

Saw it this weekend, loved it.  I especially liked how Jackson started off with typical documentary footage, then subtly slid into his upgrades.

The Carlin podcast is a must listen for anyone interested in history - period.  I need to go back and hand out some thank yous to whomever recommended...

What struck me about the horrors of the podcast vs. the horrors of the movie was how *relatively* opposite they were portrayed.  The podcast was so detailed and raw - which I loved since so much of history is sanitized - but the movie quoted British soldiers that described everything as kind of matter of fact. Rats? We shot 'em. Machine guns? We just had to keep going.  "We had a job to do" was said over and over.  Tough sons of bitches, stiff upper lip stuff.   

The stuck in mud is nightmare fuel.

[Kyle 207]

11 hours ago, Mach 1 said:

The stuck in mud is nightmare fuel.

Seriously. That stuck with me from the podcast, and it still creeps me out.

[lateshow 1309]

On 2/4/2019 at 2:12 PM, Post Oak said:

this is absolutely true and not hyperbolic at all.  I've listened to it 3 times already.  

@lateshow listen and report back

Is it on Apple podcasts?

[KaiserSoze 1000]

I saw it last night at Alamo S. Lamar- really enjoyed it. The peek into the archival process was fantastic as well.

[52-80 19291]

Hinky dinky parlez vouz

[Damor 1237]

^^^
My 11yo won't stop singing that.  And he got some surprises when he listened to some other versions on Youtube.

[hookem2010 2651]

Looks like it is playing this weekend in FW. I'm definitely going to have to check it out. Is 3D worth the extra few bucks?

[RamjetFDO 10604]

On 1/21/2019 at 11:52 PM, SimonBolivar said:

There are HD versions out there if you're willing to break the law to get them.

 

(but yes - it's really really good)

[Nivek 17089]

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 5:39 PM, hookem2010 said:

Looks like it is playing this weekend in FW. I'm definitely going to have to check it out. Is 3D worth the extra few bucks?

I saw it in standard and it was great.  

[Hornstrader 180]

Saw it in Southlake and standard is the right choice.

I really enjoyed this. Jackson mentioned, in the after credits feature, that he had a lot of air and naval footage but chose to focus on the ground war. I wonder how much interest there would be in additional films about those 2 areas of the war.  

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4980]

Still need to see this, but will probably wait until I can stream it. WWI aviation is always something I enjoy reading about because it was so new and they were just figuring out how to kill each other with their new airplanes. Plus airships. And everything looks like something you could build yourself if you had the time or money.

[Knoxtnhorn 6184]

Dammit.  I'm going to neg some of y'all for making me start the Carlin podcast.  I can't stop listening, and I don't have the time.  It's on YouTube, btw.  It's amazing.  I was hooked within 2 mins.

Edited February 10, 2019 by Knoxtnhorn

[TwiceHorn 31705]

7 hours ago, Hornstrader said:

Saw it in Southlake and standard is the right choice.

I really enjoyed this. Jackson mentioned, in the after credits feature, that he had a lot of air and naval footage but chose to focus on the ground war. I wonder how much interest there would be in additional films about those 2 areas of the war.  

I'm always kind of a seafag, but given that naval armament was a precipitating cause of the war, and it was the last war to feature major ship-to-ship battles, I would be hugely down for a naval version.  Wouldn't quibble with an air one, either.

[Art Vandelay 1712]

Saw it yesterday at Alamo Drafthouse and really enjoyed it. Truly an achievement.

9 hours ago, Hornstrader said:

I really enjoyed this. Jackson mentioned, in the after credits feature, that he had a lot of air and naval footage but chose to focus on the ground war. I wonder how much interest there would be in additional films about those 2 areas of the war.  

According to this article in the NY Times, Jackson restored all 100 hours of footage given to him by the Imperial War Museum before narrowing it down. Makes me wonder if we'll see more of it at some point. I sure hope so.

Quote

For Jackson’s documentary, rather than sift through the archival footage to decide which scenes to use, he opted to restore all 100 hours first (working on that daunting three-year task with a New Zealand company, Park Road Post Production). Decades of scratches, dust and splotches were cleaned up, and the now-pristine material was donated back to the war museum.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/16/movies/peter-jackson-war-movie.html?module=inline

 

[Chad Fuck 17914]

Still need to see this, but will probably wait until I can stream it. WWI aviation is always something I enjoy reading about because it was so new and they were just figuring out how to kill each other with their new airplanes. Plus airships. And everything looks like something you could build yourself if you had the time or money.

As an aside, you could definitely build them all yourself if you had the time and money. I’ve seriously considered buying one of the kits or building an extinct model from scratch.

[atomheartbevo 90148]

13 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm always kind of a seafag, but given that naval armament was a precipitating cause of the war, and it was the last war to feature major ship-to-ship battles, I would be hugely down for a naval version.  Wouldn't quibble with an air one, either.

Today’s WWI trivia.  See the ship below?  It was laid down the same year the Titannic sank. It launched in 1913 and entered service in 1915. .  Raised a fair amount of submarines and other vessels, served through the Russian Revolution and both World Wars. .   It’s still in service with the Russian fleet. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_salvage_ship_Kommuna

Edited February 11, 2019 by atomheartbevo

[cabowabo 4578]

I went and saw this tonight with my 13 year old son and thought it was very meh. Sure, there was some really cool footage, but that was about it. I couldn’t understand half of what the narrators were saying during the movie. They didn’t play the really good music/score that was heard on the trailer. Seeing it at a movie theater added nothing to the experience. Was definitely not worth the $45 tab I spent to see it.  Should have just waited until it hit Netflix.