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Prioritizing the Issues

Hugo Stiglitz

By Hugo Stiglitz
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gmr548

gmr548 16504

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Hard to pick only three, but the three I think would provide the most bang for the buck/effort - 

Immigration - Reform is so fucking simple. Establish a guest worker program, get the folks that are just coming here to work, lay low, and send some money home on the tax rolls and mitigate the public health/safety issues that come with the current framework. Do the right thing and grant dreamers citizenship; let them continue being overwhelming net positives for this country.

Criminal Justice - As a country, we are ridiculously over policed, and that is especially true for black/brown communities. War on drugs has to go. Federal, or at least state level, watchdogs for police accountability on the level of the Voting Rights Act (before it was gutted). They cannot police themselves. Stop militarizing police by providing them military equipment with federal dollars. Honestly, I would ho ahead and take the guns away from run of the mill patrol cops. More harm than good comes from them having them. Put money saved into mental health and education.

Education - Unfortunately I think this is at least partially cultural and that the government is somewhat limited here. Because of that, in an ideal world I am all about local control of education. I have worked in schools and whole heatedly agree that the people on the ground every day are best equipped to make decisions. Unfortunately, for a significant portion of this country, "local control" has become a dog whistle for either racial segregation and/or theocracy. Look no further than LA and MS; private Christian schools for the moneyed, white middle and upper classes, and a very poorly funded public school system for the larger, predominately black working class and poor. Texas isn't necessarily as racist about it but wants to inject the Bible into everything. From an economic standpoint, we have a huge chunk of the population that is very poorly educated and has no real opportunity to succeed in a 21st century economy. We can't expect things to end well if we abandon education. Higher ed needs to be affordable and accessible to all, but incentives for apprenticeships and trade school also need to be increased. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

I was unaware Sam Harris was a "public intellectual".  I thought he was a guy with a podcast who sometimes has thought provoking guests.  Like Maron, but less blues and rock.

He is called a public intellectual by many.  What he is in reality is a neuroscientist who writes a lot on the philosophy of mind in spite of the fact that he never bothers to study the subject.  People who do study that subject openly mock him and tell him he doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about, even those who ultimately agree with his conclusions.  But this is of no concern of his because those people are just antiquated academics while he possesses the true science and is generally just an all around smart guy, so he can write with authority on any subject that comes to his mind.  He is presented as an intellectual for these reasons and he pontificates about many subjects that he knows nothing about.  People who do study the subjects he discusses universally agree that he is chock full of shit.  But his fan base see this as just plain old meanness and discrimination against someone speaking the truth.  He once went out of his way to goad Chosmky intent an email debate and Noam exposed him for what he is.

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4 minutes ago, G650 said:

FWIW Chomsky is somewhat of a moron too. He has high intellectually aptitude in certain areas, but lacks a significant amount of emotional intelligence to have complete understanding of many things.

We are all human and no one is brilliant in all areas.   But I've never heard anyone categorize Chomsky as somewhat of a moron. In any case, Harris and Chomsky are not even in the same ballpark when it comes to thoughtful consideration of a topic before writing about it and discussing it publicly.  

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G650

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1 minute ago, Aphelion said:

We are all human and no one is brilliant in all areas.   But I've never heard anyone categorize Chomsky as somewhat of a moron. In any case, Harris and Chomsky are not even in the same ballpark when it comes to thoughtful consideration of a topic before writing about it and discussing it publicly.  

I believe you. I've never heard a word Harris has spoken or seen one he has written.

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tantric superman

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16 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

He is called a public intellectual by many.  What he is in reality is a neuroscientist who writes a lot on the philosophy of mind in spite of the fact that he never bothers to study the subject.  People who do study that subject openly mock him and tell him he doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about, even those who ultimately agree with his conclusions.  But this is of no concern of his because those people are just antiquated academics while he possesses the true science and is generally just an all around smart guy, so he can write with authority on any subject that comes to his mind.  He is presented as an intellectual for these reasons and he pontificates about many subjects that he knows nothing about.  People who do study the subjects he discusses universally agree that he is chock full of shit.  But his fan base see this as just plain old meanness and discrimination against someone speaking the truth.  He once went out of his way to goad Chosmky intent an email debate and Noam exposed him for what he is.

Plus maybe he touched you.

Who the fuck worries about this kind of shit?  I subscribe to free podcasts that are better than listening to free radio.

When they start charging me for them I probably won't.  If he has fans, I doubt they are any more pathetic than people who obsess about how those fans may feel about him.

I posited three issues that I think are important that I learned from a guy who I think was on Sam Harris.  He may have been on the New Yorker Radio Hour.  I doubt he was on Heavyweight or Hey We're Back.   Do you think they are shitty or unimportant issues?  Without bitching about Sam Harris, state your reasons.

 

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7 minutes ago, G650 said:

I believe you. I've never heard a word Harris has spoken or seen one he has written.

To give one example of his quackery, he thought he settled the is-ought gap, a centuries old question in ethics, with a few tweets.  

https://twitter.com/SamHarrisOrg/status/951276346529009665

 

11 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Plus maybe he touched you.

Who the fuck worries about this kind of shit?  I subscribe to free podcasts that are better than listening to free radio.

When they start charging me for them I probably won't.  If he has fans, I doubt they are any more pathetic than people who obsess about how those fans may feel about him.

I posited three issues that I think are important that I learned from a guy who I think was on Sam Harris.  He may have been on the New Yorker Radio Hour.  I doubt he was on Heavyweight or Hey We're Back.   Do you think they are shitty or unimportant issues?  Without bitching about Sam Harris, state your reasons.

I didn't mean to shit on your selected issues.  I think the less influence folks like Harris have on society the better off we will be.  Didn't give it any thought beyond that.  

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19 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

To give one example of his quackery, he thought he settled the is-ought gap, a centuries old question in ethics, with a few tweets.  

https://twitter.com/SamHarrisOrg/status/951276346529009665

 

 

The first tweet was pretty good, but it devolved fairly quickly.

I put myself on the record years ago that there is no ought, btw.

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3 hours ago, G650 said:

The first tweet was pretty good, but it devolved fairly quickly.

I put myself on the record years ago that there is no ought, btw.

Not sure what you mean by this.  Are you saying that you don't believe there is any valid system of ethics to live by?  E.g. you don't believe that a man ought to abstain from raping women?

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G650

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10 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

Not sure what you mean by this.  Are you saying that you don't believe there is any valid system of ethics to live by?  E.g. you don't believe that a man ought to abstain from raping women?

This is way beyond the scope of this thread. The short answer is yes I believe in a system of ethics. The word ought and should are not synonyms though, and the word you are looking for in this instance is should. Ie. "Man should abstain from raping women (because it negatively impacts our societal construct)". Ought implies a pre determination and a pseudo righteousness that there is abstract right and wrong independent of conciousness, and moreover is usually used by people to justify emotional responses that have no basis in reasoning whatsoever.

 

I'm happy to have another thread discussing ethics but I dont think it would need to be in CR really.

 

Edit: TL;DR  Should = You should do x if you want y.  Ought=Things need to be this way because fuck you that's why.

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1 minute ago, G650 said:

This is way beyond the scope of this thread. The short answer is yes I believe in a system of ethics. The word ought and should are not synonyms though, and the word you are looking for in this instance is should. Ie. "Man should abstain from raping women (because it negatively impacts our societal construct)". Ought implies a pre determination and a pseudo righteousness that there is abstract right and wrong independent of conciousness, and moreover is usually used by people to justify emotional responses that have no basis in reasoning whatsoever.

 

I'm happy to have another thread discussing ethics but I dont think it would need to be in CR really.

Ok, agreed. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on some other thread.  Ought is the preferred word in normative ethics, though. 

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G650

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17 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

Ok, agreed. Would be interested in hearing your thoughts on some other thread.  Ought is the preferred word in normative ethics, though. 

I know, and I disagree with it strongly, which is really just as much a usage issue as theory obviously. 

I do think that  would be a fun thread though. 

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NameWithHeld

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On 10/16/2018 at 7:49 AM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If you had a political agenda, what three areas would you address first? 

 
My three
 
 
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1.  Corruption - no other issue will get the attention it deserves until we crackdown on political/corporate/moral corruption.  How can we expect to honestly address things like Climate Change, Tax Reform, Government spending, Health Care, Net Neutrality, and Foreign Policy when our elected officials are all bought and paid for by lobbyists and foreign governments?  
We can’t.
 
2.  Making health care and higher education affordable compared to other developed nations.  More emphasis on mental health awareness in our schools too.
 
3.  Criminal Justice reform - we need to pretty much start over here and look to what works best in European societies because our shit is all fucked up.
 
Tell me what judicial system exists that is better than ours?
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G650

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12 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Gee, I wonder how this thread about actual issues got completely derailed with nonsense?

Well, I don't think it's nonsense, quite the opposite, and directly impacts what we are talking about. Plus, I clearly said that it is too complex a subject and deserves another thread, and Aphelion quickly agreed.

 

Anyway, people seem to be in almost universal agreement about campaign finance and health care. We should probably do something about those.

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Js1

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3 minutes ago, G650 said:

Well, I don't think it's nonsense, quite the opposite, and directly impacts what we are talking about. Plus, I clearly said that it is too complex a subject and deserves another thread, and Aphelion quickly agreed.

 

Anyway, people seem to be in almost universal agreement about campaign finance and health care. We should probably do something about those.

Sooooooooooooo....

Bathrooms and tax cuts. Got it.

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I still wonder though...health care providers, health care facilities, and health care insurance....all are licensed, regulated, and billed/paid at the state level.  Why is it such a massive federal issue aside from MediCare...which admittedly is massive?  But Medicaid really is a state by state issue after they get their block grants, they are often left to their own devices.  I'm not suggesting a parallel health care system that deals just with MediCare participants.  But shouldn't we at least discussion that option since everything else about health care is a state issue (you'll have to assume for the purposes of such a debate that the Dept. of the VA continues to operate outside all of these other systems).  

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7 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I still wonder though...health care providers, health care facilities, and health care insurance....all are licensed, regulated, and billed/paid at the state level.  Why is it such a massive federal issue aside from MediCare...which admittedly is massive?  But Medicaid really is a state by state issue after they get their block grants, they are often left to their own devices.  I'm not suggesting a parallel health care system that deals just with MediCare participants.  But shouldn't we at least discussion that option since everything else about health care is a state issue (you'll have to assume for the purposes of such a debate that the Dept. of the VA continues to operate outside all of these other systems).  

I think you have brought up a significant part of the problem.

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On 10/17/2018 at 7:33 PM, workswithseed said:

Ouch, I really like peterson

Not everything that Peterson or Harris and their ilk says is wrong or poorly thought out.  They are generally clever people and they say lots of things, so they are bound to produce some pearls.  The problem with them is that they vastly over simplify complex issues and peddle easy answers to folks for fame and money.  Peterson has found a market with the underachieving millennial white male.  I'm a millennial white male, so some of the things he says are designed to appeal to me.  For example, I also do not like Marxism nor do I feel compelled to learn 20 new gender pronouns and to use them as directed.  But when someone is telling you things you want to hear, you should be extra critical of their reasoning.  And as it turns out, my challenges and difficulties in life are mostly not the result of a vast conspiracy of postmodernists, Marxists, feminists, and transgender people.   I seldom encounter any Marxists and frankly they haven't had very much impact within the US.  My day to day life is also typically not impacted by feminists or transgenders, either.  I've yet to meet anyone who has asked me to call them some made up gender pronoun, and if I did it would probably be nothing more than a mildly amusing event and not some terrible burden.   

If you are interested in more thoughtful analysis from a conservative viewpoint, I'd recommend Roger Scruton.  

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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On 10/16/2018 at 7:49 AM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

If you had a political agenda, what three areas would you address first? 

 
My three
 
 
  Reveal hidden contents
 
1.  Corruption - no other issue will get the attention it deserves until we crackdown on political/corporate/moral corruption.  How can we expect to honestly address things like Climate Change, Tax Reform, Government spending, Health Care, Net Neutrality, and Foreign Policy when our elected officials are all bought and paid for by lobbyists and foreign governments?  
We can’t.
 
2.  Making health care and higher education affordable compared to other developed nations.  More emphasis on mental health awareness in our schools too.
 
3.  Criminal Justice reform - we need to pretty much start over here and look to what works best in European societies because our shit is all fucked up.
 
 

Goes back to my #1

 

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Bone3421

Bone3421 716

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Well this thread gave me some weird deja vu...

 

The campaign reform/getting corruption and lobbyists out is so simple but wont get passed until public calls for it.

 

We have a population of roughly 327 million.

You create a new tax of 2$/3$ per person once a year...this is the only $$$ used for campaigns

You just created 654 million or 981 million a year for campaigns. Split it 40/40/20 with a clause to redistribute accordingly over the years if 3rd/4th parties gain popularity

 

 

 

 

 

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