2018-19 NBA Season Thread

[d2o 1,603]

3 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Celts and Lakers have had their down years--at least partially due to mismanagement--yet they don't seem to have too much difficulty drawing interest from FAs (or players under contract). And SA and OKC built their teams organically, primarily through the draft and mostly before this latest trend of "I don't wanna play here anymore, so fuck FMV and fuck your future and deal me to a place I wanna be else I'll cause problems there, too."

As for NYK and BKN, c'mon, man--the list of small-market/non-storied franchises that can't get a second look from bonafide FAs or pouty super-stars looking to improve their surroundings is far, far longer ... and far less likely to ever change if the current trend continues.

And to be clear, I am not bleeding sympathy for the owners. Like Machinator said, it's not about them, it's about parity and the fans of small-market/non-storied franchises having any hope of seeing their teams succeed for more than a season or two.

The Lakers struck out on FAs for YEARS!    They just finally landed LBJ.     BOS has been building over the last 3-4 yrs and are just now getting guys that want to play there.      When teams have good management they get good players to come to them no matter where they are.    Kyrie had SA on his short list of teams when he made his trade demand.

 

 

[d2o 1,603]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Nah.... Hart and Zubac make up Beasley's number.  You just need Rondo's contract.

 

true on Supercool

[Patrick Bateman 3,984]

Just now, longhornmatt said:

Why would New Orleans want to become the shitty pre-Lebron Lakers with Rondo and Beasley thrown in for team chemistry? 

They should have traded AD a lot sooner.  Now nobody will even make an offer except the Lakers and 2 or 3 other teams that he might plausibly sign with as a free agent.  If they shopped him two years ago the whole league would have been offering real assets.

It's all in how their scouting likes Ingram, Kuzma, and/or guys like Ball or possibly Zubac.  Personally, I would wait as the Lakers offer will be there in after the season, but Dell Demps is a shitty GM.

[aggie08 21,849]

31 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I realize this post is three days old and I didn't see the original tweet, but Vince Carter faked an injury and purposefully tanked to get the hell out of Toronto. It was one of the more despicable acts by an NBA player I can remember and he was reviled there for years.

Yes, this.  He did all but take literal shits on the court at Air Canada center for months trying to force his way out.  

I like the dude now, but I couldn't stand him back in the day.  Completely resurrected his image.

People may hate DWade, but he's a much better player than Carter, has the better legacy, oh, and Carter doesn't even want to retire this year, so making him an honorary All-Star would have made zero sense.

[aggie08 21,849]

19 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

What the fuck is Magic Joshnson trying to do? Trading all that for Anthony Davis? Lmao. What a fucking idiot. 

What is "all that" to you?  Kuzma is the only piece of real value to the Lakers in that proposed trade.

[Braff Zacklin 13,676]

3 minutes ago, d2o said:

The Lakers struck out on FAs for YEARS!    They just finally landed LBJ.     BOS has been building over the last 3-4 yrs and are just now getting guys that want to play there.      When teams have good management they get good players to come to them no matter where they are.    Kyrie had SA on his short list of teams when he made his trade demand.

So striking out on FAs for a few years is equivalent to striking out on FAs for decades, or for a franchise's entire history?

SA is indeed a small market team, but they've also five rings over the past 20 seasons. 

The heart wants what it wants, and there's nothing that can be done about that, but the draft and signed long-term contracts exist to provide some parity and to protect small-market/less-storied franchises from perennially losing out to either big market teams or jump on the championship/superteam bandwagon.

You're only seeing one side of this.

[aggie08 21,849]

19 minutes ago, Machinator said:

This also reeks of a PR stunt by Davis/Rich Paul. What exactly can the Bucks, Knicks, or Clippers offer that can beat the Lakers' offer (which isn't that great, either)?

"Put everyone on the table already, Magic, or we're going to convince New Orleans to take Khris Middleton!"

[d2o 1,603]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

What is "all that" to you?  Kuzma is the only piece of real value to the Lakers in that proposed trade.

and Kuz is VASTLY overrated.    He will put up numbers on a shitty team.   That's about it.

[d2o 1,603]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Yes, this.  He did all but take literal shits on the court at Air Canada center for months trying to force his way out.  

I like the dude now, but I couldn't stand him back in the day.  Completely resurrected his image.

People may hate DWade, but he's a much better player than Carter, has the better legacy, oh, and Carter doesn't even want to retire this year, so making him an honorary All-Star would have made zero sense.

Has Dirk said he is retiring this yr?

[aggie08 21,849]

Just now, d2o said:

Has Dirk said he is retiring this yr?

hmm, good point.  I guess I just assumed with the whole not being able to move thing.

[d2o 1,603]

Just now, aggie08 said:

hmm, good point.  I guess I just assumed with the whole not being able to move thing.

Last I heard, he was undecided.   He may hang on for another yr to get a player's salary to make up for all the money he let Cuban screw him out of.

[fellside 1,136]

I like the theory that Davis just listed teams he knows can't offer a good enough trade.  That way he looks like less of a villain and he still gets what he wants.  And he helps the Pelicans get some better value so he can get out now.

[d2o 1,603]

12 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

So striking out on FAs for a few years is equivalent to striking out on FAs for decades, or for a franchise's entire history?

SA is indeed a small market team, but they've also five rings over the past 20 seasons. 

The heart wants what it wants, and there's nothing that can be done about that, but the draft and signed long-term contracts exist to provide some parity and to protect small-market/less-storied franchises from perennially losing out to either big market teams or jump on the championship/superteam bandwagon.

You're only seeing one side of this.

I feel like you are doing the same thing.   What team has struck out for their entire history?   

SA, CLE, and GSW (which was considered a small market team for years until they started winning) have been the title winners in the last few years.     The Knicks haven't won in damn near 50 yrs.   The Nets haven't since the ABA.  

Edited February 4, 2019 by d2o

[Braff Zacklin 13,676]

8 minutes ago, d2o said:

I feel like you are doing the same thing.   What team has struck out for their entire history?

Denver, Minnesota, Charlotte, Toronto, Vancouver/Memphis, New Orleans, and arguably the Clips, which aren't in a small market but since most of the available fanbase there gravitates toward the Lakers, they might as well be.

And there are several other franchises that have only been to a Finals or two ... in an era where they could at least count on their athletes playing out their contracts before looking elsewhere/refusing to play.

The NBA has always had issues with parity, and it's only going to get worse if the current trend of superstars refusing to complete their contracts and demanding trades continues.

[d2o 1,603]

4 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Denver, Minnesota, Charlotte, Toronto, Vancouver/Memphis, New Orleans, and arguably the Clips, which aren't in a small market but since most of the available fanbase there gravitates toward the Lakers, they might as well be.

And there are several other franchises that have only been to a Finals or two ... in an era where they could at least count on their athletes playing out their contracts before looking elsewhere/refusing to play.

The NBA has always had issues with parity, and it's only going to get worse if the current trend of superstars refusing to complete their contracts and demanding trades continues.

Do you not see that those teams have been shitty for the vast majority of their history?   I'm not understanding who you expected to sign with those orgs and more importantly why.    Big time FAs don't just sign to teams for the hell of it.   They go to teams that they think are in a good position to win.   Guys who just wanna get paid go to teams that are shitty but have cap money free.

And by your definition the NFL doesn't have parity, right?    There are many teams that have only been to a SB or two.  A few that have never been.

I'm not even trying to argue.    I'm just not understanding what you expect.   Applied to today would it be better for AD to just stay in NO and be cool with never having a chance to win?

[Machinator 32,103]

42 minutes ago, d2o said:

Has Dirk said he is retiring this yr?

 

41 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

hmm, good point.  I guess I just assumed with the whole not being able to move thing.

 

[aggie08 21,849]

The current CBA makes it almost a slam dunk that a superstar will extend on with the team that drafted them after their rookie contract.  That's 7 years.  If you can't make a good enough sales' pitch in 7 years, you probably are never going to.  Is the argument that players are leaving or how they're leaving?  I have no problem with one, but, yes, the other is becoming disconcerting.

[Kermit 3,166]

https://mobile.twitter.com/FletcherWDSU/status/1092540085445238784

[Machinator 32,103]

12 minutes ago, Kermit said:

https://mobile.twitter.com/FletcherWDSU/status/1092540085445238784

 

[aggie08 21,849]

So the question is, if Boston falls apart or doesn't offer Tatum, does New Orleans still think they can get the same LAL deal in June that they can pry out of them by Thursday (or an equal or better deal from someone else)?

I'd think so.  I think they remain calm and let the deadline pass.  With the added benefit of getting to tell Rich Paul and Klutch to take a hike for a few months.

[d2o 1,603]

 

 

29 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

The current CBA makes it almost a slam dunk that a superstar will extend on with the team that drafted them after their rookie contract.  That's 7 years.  If you can't make a good enough sales' pitch in 7 years, you probably are never going to.  Is the argument that players are leaving or how they're leaving?  I have no problem with one, but, yes, the other is becoming disconcerting.

I just think players are damned if they do and damned if they dont.      Players leave when their contracts are up and plenty get mad and say that they should have let their team know so they could get something for them.    The last few big time FAs have told their teams that they dont plan to re-sign when the time comes and many are still not happy.    

 

Meanwhile teams trade players that are very happy with their teams and have no intention of leaving and  there is hardly a peep.

[Vic Mackey 48,029]

...

[Kermit 3,166]

13 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

...

That is a picture of the Balls watching Lonzo’s career trajectory.

[aggie08 21,849]

Re: How much Klay is worth to the Warriors.

Reportedly, there's real question whether or not Harrison Barnes will opt-in to his $25M option year.  He apparently may be able to get more elsewhere.  What???  The money is already insane, and it's only going to get crazier.  We'll see how much Harris can snag.  Some less-than superstar players who make $25M+: Whiteside, Beal, Wiggins, McCollum, Holiday, Porter, DeRozan, Millsap, Horford, Conley, Lowry, and Hayward.  Klay is absolutely toward the top end of the group, and almost certainly preferable to all of them to the Warriors.

Obviously, you can say that a few of those are bad contracts, but the market for a highly skilled wing has never been higher.  I think the bidding probably starts at $27M, and Warriors would consider themselves very lucky if they can keep him under 30.  Klay has proven that he isn't KLAY without Steph next to him (they've tried to build a 2nd unit offense around Klay for 5 years, but the offense has always been meh without Steph on the court), but how much should that matter to the Warriors if they already have Steph signed long term?

Edited February 4, 2019 by aggie08

[SilasCoade 2,622]

re: players leaving, I find no fault in the players trying to go to better situations. I do have issues with the players basically colluding and tampering. Announcing you aren't going to re-sign with your current team once your current contract is up is actually a bonus for the team. Announcing that you are only willing to re-sign with a few teams if traded is tampering and reduces the negotiating power of the current team. For one thing, an established competitive team will either be unwilling to part with veteran assets that will diminish their current championship window. Successful teams (i.e., teams that players want to play for in order to compete for championships) also are likely to have few high draft picks to offer in compensation.

 

If a player wants out, tell the team you want out. Let them find the best value they can for the team. Sign your free agent deal with whomever you like once you are a free agent. But fuck manipulating the process like this.

[d2o 1,603]

17 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Re: How much Klay is worth to the Warriors.

There's real question whether or not Harrison Barnes will opt-in to his $25M option year.  He apparently may be able to get more elsewhere.  What???  The money is already insane, and it's only going to get crazier.  We'll see how much Harris can snag.  Some less-than superstar players who make $25M+: Whiteside, Beal, Wiggins, McCollum, Holiday, Porter, DeRozan, Millsap, Horford, Conley, Lowry, and Hayward.  Klay is absolutely toward the top end of the group, and almost certainly preferable to all of them to the Warriors.

Obviously, you can say that a few of those are bad contracts, but the market for a highly skilled wing has never been higher.  I think the bidding probably starts at $27M, and Warriors would consider themselves very lucky if they can keep him under 30.  Klay has proven that he isn't KLAY without Steph on the court with him (they've tried to built a 2nd unit offense around Klay for 5 years, but the offense has always been meh without Steph), but how much should that matter to the Warriors if they already have Steph signed long term?

Wait what?    Barnes prolly sent that paper work accepting that option the day after he signed the contract. 

[aggie08 21,849]

8 minutes ago, Llogg said:

But fuck manipulating the process like this.

I will say, using Kyrie's timely apology to LeBron to fire up the rumor mill with Kyrie to LA (and everywhere else) talk, until a notoriously media-reluctant player snaps and says something stupid, thus destabilizing Boston's position was pretty damn impressive. 

[aggie08 21,849]

Just now, d2o said:

Wait what?    Barnes prolly sent that paper work accepting that option the day after he signed the contract. 

Right?! That's what I thought.  But Lowe and Arnovitz think that there will be some teams sniffing around.  Either to pay him a little more, or to have him opt out, so they can lock him down for a longer 4/$80M type deal.  Craziness.

[d2o 1,603]

13 minutes ago, Llogg said:

re: players leaving, I find no fault in the players trying to go to better situations. I do have issues with the players basically colluding and tampering. Announcing you aren't going to re-sign with your current team once your current contract is up is actually a bonus for the team. Announcing that you are only willing to re-sign with a few teams if traded is tampering and reduces the negotiating power of the current team. For one thing, an established competitive team will either be unwilling to part with veteran assets that will diminish their current championship window. Successful teams (i.e., teams that players want to play for in order to compete for championships) also are likely to have few high draft picks to offer in compensation.

 

If a player wants out, tell the team you want out. Let them find the best value they can for the team. Sign your free agent deal with whomever you like once you are a free agent. But fuck manipulating the process like this.

That would be great but those teams that are inquiring about trading for the player are asking his people if he would re-sign when his contract is up.   Its part of their due diligence. 

[d2o 1,603]

5 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Right?! That's what I thought.  But Lowe and Arnovitz think that there will be some teams sniffing around.  Either to pay him a little more, or to have him opt out, so they can lock him down for a longer 4/$80M type deal.  Craziness.

And this is what I mean about poorly managed teams.    Any GM that even brings that to the owner should be fired immediately.   Signing him for 80M is complete fucking insane.

[aggie08 21,849]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

That would be great but those teams that are inquiring about trading for the player are asking his people if he would re-sign when his contract is up.   Its part of their due diligence. 

And that information would probably get out.  But it wouldn't be as cut and dry as "here's Player X's list of preferred destinations directly from his agent."  Not that those requests have been shown to matter much, but I don't love players demanding trades publicly then expecting the team to do anything other than what's in their best interest.  Keep it quiet, and whatever leaks leaks.  Though, in the end, all I really care about is that the player honors his contract if their request isn't immediately met.  The Butler and Kawhi sabotages and Kyrie's alleged threat to sit out or have surgery bug me.

[d2o 1,603]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

And that information would probably get out.  But it wouldn't be as cut and dry as "here's Player X's list of preferred destinations directly from his agent."  Not that those requests have been shown to matter much, but I don't love players demanding trades publicly then expecting the team to do anything other than what's in their best interest.  Keep it quiet, and whatever leaks leaks.  Though, in the end, all I really care about is that the player honors his contract if their request isn't immediately met.  The Butler and Kawhi sabotages and Kyrie's alleged threat to sit out or have surgery bug me.

I agree with that but.........................NO seems like they will sit AD even if they don't move him.  

[aggie08 21,849]

AD, from what I can tell, has been mostly professional, and he probably would suit up again if they asked them to.  Klutch has been pretty manipulative, and I'm sure that New Orleans feels like his camp hasn't been negotiating in good faith all season.  If they feel like being vindictive, they can ensure that Paul doesn't get what he wants.  Not a great situation to be in for any of the parties.

...but, New Orleans probably should have seen the writing on the wall the second he signed Paul, knowing this day would come if they were to drop out of serious playoff contention.

[Machinator 32,103]

 

[CBT 1,290]

Re: Barnes. While I don’t think he will opt out, he will only be 27. He is going to make more than $25mm the rest of this career. So it just comes down to whether he wants to go to into FA next year or the next. And then weigh his option + the riskiness the FA deals next summer versus the FA deals this summer. 4/80 sounds crazy but what about 3/54? And then go into FA again at age 30. Not that crazy. (Note: I cant remember when the CBA is up and there will probably be a work stoppage so that plays into this also.)

[Machinator 32,103]

 

[Braff Zacklin 13,676]

6 hours ago, d2o said:

Do you not see that those teams have been shitty for the vast majority of their history?

You asked for a list of teams that have been historically shitty. I did you the courtesy of an answer. Now you're writing that off because they've been historically shitty--does your right hand know what the left hand types? Just curious.

For the record, I don't care why an athlete wants out. I don't care if he feels the market is too small for him, if he believes he's not getting enough endorsement opportunities, or if the team has been historically mismanaged. (I will stress again, however, that it has never been a level playing field, and teams in smaller markets/without championship pedigrees will always have an uphill battle regardless of how well managed they are ... or aren't.)

Bottom line is, these stars are under contract and are being extremely well compensated. As far as I know, nobody held a gun to their heads and made them an offer they couldn't refuse. They need to shut the fuck up and be professional and play out the terms of their contract. Maybe work behind the scenes with management to see if their concerns can be addressed.

Otherwise, there's always next year or the year after that. And if they're not man enough to accept millions of dollars to play in front of millions of mostly adoring fans without whining or faking injury, they can always go to Europe or China and play for a lot less and in relative anonymity.

As for free agents, don't see how the league can do anything about where an out-of-contract player signs. Leonard, Porzingis, and now Davis were/are not out of contract, however.

[Machinator 32,103]

 

[Chad 1,728]

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,985]

 

Comments are good but fuck the luol deng meme gets me everytime

[d2o 1,603]

8 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

You asked for a list of teams that have been historically shitty. I did you the courtesy of an answer. Now you're writing that off because they've been historically shitty--does your right hand know what the left hand types? Just curious.

For the record, I don't care why an athlete wants out. I don't care if he feels the market is too small for him, if he believes he's not getting enough endorsement opportunities, or if the team has been historically mismanaged. (I will stress again, however, that it has never been a level playing field, and teams in smaller markets/without championship pedigrees will always have an uphill battle regardless of how well managed they are ... or aren't.)

Bottom line is, these stars are under contract and are being extremely well compensated. As far as I know, nobody held a gun to their heads and made them an offer they couldn't refuse. They need to shut the fuck up and be professional and play out the terms of their contract. Maybe work behind the scenes with management to see if their concerns can be addressed.

Otherwise, there's always next year or the year after that. And if they're not man enough to accept millions of dollars to play in front of millions of mostly adoring fans without whining or faking injury, they can always go to Europe or China and play for a lot less and in relative anonymity.

As for free agents, don't see how the league can do anything about where an out-of-contract player signs. Leonard, Porzingis, and now Davis were/are not out of contract, however.

Team performance is a factor in FAs signing with a team.   I'm not sure why you seem to not understand that concept.     You don't just a big time FA cause you have existed for a long time.

[d2o 1,603]

6 hours ago, Machinator said:

 

They are overplaying their hand now IMO.    I get they don't wanna trade him to the Lakers.   They may as well just say that.

[Braff Zacklin 13,676]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

Team performance is a factor in FAs signing with a team.   I'm not sure why you seem to not understand that concept.     You don't just a big time FA cause you have existed for a long time.

If you can find where I stated or implied that team performance isn't a factor, I'll tip my hat. Likewise, if you can find where I stated or implied that how long a franchise has existed is the only factor in where a FA goes, I'll tip it again.

I'm uncertain why you're making this about FAs. If you roll back to the original post that you chose to address, it was directed toward players under contract strong-arming owners to go elsewhere. Had nothing to do with FAs other than noting it's already tough to prevent the Haves from having more because FAs tend to gravitate toward larger markets and to teams with winning histories (be it recent or otherwise), so athletes should at least be held to their contracts to ensure a modicum of parity.

[d2o 1,603]

Pels held him out last night.

 

 

Quote

 

Davis, 25, eagerly wanted to suit up at home against the Indiana Pacers after recovering from a left finger avulsion that sidelined him for a little more than two weeks, sources said, but the organization elected to keep him inactive. There’s the impression that his absence could potentially extend until the conclusion of Thursday’s trade deadline, sources said. It was the first contest Davis was healthy enough to rejoin the team since sustaining the injury on Jan. 18, sources said.

– via Yahoo! Sports

 

 

[LurkingHorn 1,093]

2 hours ago, d2o said:

They are overplaying their hand now IMO.    I get they don't wanna trade him to the Lakers.   They may as well just say that.

I don't think they're over-playing at all. It's the Lakers who have a very tight window as Lebron starts to age. Them waiting until after next season to get AD would be a massive failure for them. Pels are playing this right for once. They are totally comfortable sitting him and waiting to get more bidders in July. 

[d2o 1,603]

2 minutes ago, LurkingHorn said:

I don't think they're over-playing at all. It's the Lakers who have a very tight window as Lebron starts to age. Them waiting until after next season to get AD would be a massive failure for them. Pels are playing this right for once. They are totally comfortable sitting him and waiting to get more bidders in July. 

While I do agree the Lakers need to get the deal done now, I don't know that offers really get better in the summer.   BOS reportedly refused to say they will offer Tatum.   Given that BOS is not on AD's list (allegedly) I think they will offer less while saying he will be just a rental.   Also Ainge is known for low-balling trade offers.

They know what the Lakers have and they are reportedly not even countering the LA offers so its pretty clear either they just don't wanna deal with LA or they don't think LA has the pieces to get them to trade AD.

 

 

[Patrick Bateman 3,984]

28 minutes ago, d2o said:

While I do agree the Lakers need to get the deal done now, I don't know that offers really get better in the summer.   BOS reportedly refused to say they will offer Tatum.   Given that BOS is not on AD's list (allegedly) I think they will offer less while saying he will be just a rental.   Also Ainge is known for low-balling trade offers.

They know what the Lakers have and they are reportedly not even countering the LA offers so its pretty clear either they just don't wanna deal with LA or they don't think LA has the pieces to get them to trade AD.

 

 

Woj came back and said everyone but Kyrie is on the table for AD.  Tatum can go, the issue may be what more can go?  And Ainge can offer less than full value based on rumors of desires destinations but then you go another route.  Lakers deal continues to erode as time goes on so doubt it goes down much.... issue may be they probably need 3rd team in the summer. 

[Radical Larry 28,826]

[d2o 1,603]

Just cmonint

13 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Woj came back and said everyone but Kyrie is on the table for AD.  Tatum can go, the issue may be what more can go?  And Ainge can offer less than full value based on rumors of desires destinations but then you go another route.  Lakers deal continues to erode as time goes on so doubt it goes down much.... issue may be they probably need 3rd team in the summer. 

I think the Lakers will be a little less desperate in the summer than now.   They want AD for the playoff run.    In the summer they may be able to snag a big FA or work out a trade for another player.    

[Vic Mackey 48,029]

15 minutes ago, Radical Larry said:

 

 

 

 

Looks like he fell at his home. Curious as to what he was doing.