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2018-19 NBA Season Thread

BigOrange1

By BigOrange1
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Vic Mackey
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Thatguy
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RW is from Lawndale. Most of the gangs down there are Hispanic. Not the same as the violence in South Central. I think he is paying homage to a guy who he had a lot of respect for. It's just that if y

Dutchrudder
Dutchrudder

The last guy to consistently shutdown KD was Westbrook in 2016. 

ztejas

ztejas 43244

Posted
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25 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

    Balling out needs to equal wins. Melo balled out. WB did too.

Kyrie has a championship win and 2 Finals appearances you fucking tard. Putting you on ignore so I don't want to blow my brains out every time I come to this thread.  

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Thatguy

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5 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Kyrie has a championship win and 2 Finals appearances you fucking tard. Putting you on ignore so I don't want to blow my brains out every time I come to this thread.  

    A lot of name calling and childishness. You said I had no sources or evidence. Then when I give them to you that is when you immediately go to name calling and silly bullshit. Basketball is a game of chemistry. There are many empty scorers, just like there are guys like Draymond who do so many things that don't show up in stat sheets to help a team win. The problem in Boston is obvious to anyone who understands basketball. The guys who were getting all the touches last year aren't getting as many touches this year and their games are off. Those guys happen to be superior defenders to the two additions. Last year during the playoffs they could switch 4 out of the 5 positions. Only TR needed help, and he was still a solid defender. This year they have two swinging doors on their starting 5 and cannot overcome it.

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aggie08

aggie08 21379

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This is like the 4th time I've heard Hayward discussed as a terrible defender. I'm going to assume that everyone means so far this year (because he has been) and aren't just stereotyping him because he's...from Butler. When healthy, he's a guy who's received all-defensive team votes in the past.

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aggie08

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5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

look at the players and they tell you all you wanna know. Players wanna play with Bron and are loyal to him.

Just curious, but what exactly are you basing this on? Other than Bron, Bosh, and Wade getting together at the '08 Olympics and deciding to form their own superteam (in Miami, not Cleveland) in 2010, what star has ever wanted to come play with him?

He never convinced anybody to come join him his first time around in Cleveland (unless we're counting 40 year old Shaq, and I'm not). Kevin Love recently detailed his extensive difficulties playing with LeBron. You can dismiss that as, "Well, of course, who wants to go to fucking Cleveland?" But Paul George never took a meeting with LA with it widely being known in league circles that Bron was Lakers' bound. Kawhi, reportedly (for what that's worth), seemed to back way off his Uncle's LA or bust declaration and doesn't want to play with LeBron. Rondo, McGee, and Stephenson are just grateful to have contracts on a contending team. Of course guys like TT, Frye, RJ, Korver, and JR Smith are loyal: they would have never sniffed a ring without LeBron. But I don't get the sense that top tier guys are itching to play with him.

I'm not saying that it's LeBron's fault (though he doesn't exactly discourage the circus that surrounds him, and sometimes passive aggressively eggs it on), just that it goes with the territory of being the best basketball player on the planet. Those guys don't tend to share the spotlight well, and, no matter how good you are, you'll always just be a background singer. All the blame when things go wrong, minimal credit. Pippen struggled with it too.

I criticized Kyrie for leaving a championship team (more for how he left than that he left), but I can at least see why he wanted to make his own mark and just play basketball, away from the shadow and the subtweeting...especially with the writing already being on the wall for LeBron's departure. Why be the last man off a sinking ship?

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11103

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You also have to think that Kyrie had no idea where the Cavs would trade him after he made that request. He didn't have an NTC to avoid places like Phoenix or Sacramento. He was sent to one of the best possible teams that could trade fro him, and he still isn't 100% committed to Boston at this time. He's just an odd duck, and it won't surprise me at all if he ends up on some team no one expects next year. 

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Thatguy

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

This is like the 4th time I've heard Hayward discussed as a terrible defender. I'm going to assume that everyone means so far this year (because he has been) and aren't just stereotyping him because he's...from Butler. When healthy, he's a guy who's received all-defensive team votes in the past.

That is correct. Don't read more into it than it is.

Edited by Thatguy
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Thatguy

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50 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

You also have to think that Kyrie had no idea where the Cavs would trade him after he made that request. He didn't have an NTC to avoid places like Phoenix or Sacramento. He was sent to one of the best possible teams that could trade fro him, and he still isn't 100% committed to Boston at this time. He's just an odd duck, and it won't surprise me at all if he ends up on some team no one expects next year. 

  This is exactly it. I cannot fathom how the people on this board ignore the obvious. The demanding off a championship squad. The not bothering to show up to the most important game for your teammates. The toe at Duke, because you really could care less to play in college and just wanted to get to the pros. A couple days ago he was talking about retiring early. He is just a weird dude who just seems to want to play and really doesn't care about legacy and winning.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2807470-kyrie-irving-hopefully-planning-to-retire-in-early-to-mid-30s

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

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2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

This is like the 4th time I've heard Hayward discussed as a terrible defender. I'm going to assume that everyone means so far this year (because he has been) and aren't just stereotyping him because he's...from Butler. When healthy, he's a guy who's received all-defensive team votes in the past.

The amount of shit posted on this thread recently with zero evidence, and in fact a lot of evidence to the contrary, has been abnormally high recently 

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11103

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1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

Kyrie can thank Lebron for making him a champion. 

This line of thinking it stupid. It takes more than 1 guy to win a championship, see every year Lebron lost in the Finals. I think the Cavs win in 2015 if either Kyrie or Love don't get hurt. Kyrie especially, as his offense helped wear down the GS guards by forcing them to play hard on defense.

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Thatguy

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Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

The Cavs don't come close to winning that series without Kyrie. Not even close

What he meant was someone may want to check the records 3 years Kyrie was there prior to James coming back.

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ztejas

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2 hours ago, Machinator said:

So, does anyone want to discuss Draymond Green's importance to the Warriors?

Draymond is such a slept on player that affects the court in myriad ways. He has his dumbass moments but more often than not he is a phenomenal defender, team leader and vocal player.

He and Durant carried the heaviest load during that run last year. Not saying Curry wasn't good - but with missing 6 games I think KD and Dray's body of work was the difference maker. Especially if you are into advanced numbers (which I'm not particularly - but they have a place).

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14488

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Posted (edited)
On 11/25/2018 at 6:42 AM, aggie08 said:

So inept, in fact, that they have the 2nd best record in basketball and lead the league by a wide margin in point differential. A big part of that is because they're the only team that comes close to Houston in attempted threes. That's going to lead to the occasional off night.

Buck lost again tonight:

Giannis -- 7/15

Middleton -- 4/18 (3/12 from 3)

Broaden -- 4/16 (1/6 from 3)

Yeah, they're a real fucking brain trust.

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kopp0e

kopp0e 1135

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1 hour ago, Machinator said:

Talking about Bradley Beal, in case anyone can't decode the handle.

So, I guess this is a thing now..? The pro athletes will tell the owner/ franchisee when & where they are willing to play..?
I don't see this ending well, some season a player will want too much/ (pout too much) ala, Kawhi, and no team will bite on a trade...

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aggie08

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2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Buck lost again tonight:

Giannis -- 7/15

Middleton -- 4/18 (3/12 from 3)

Broaden -- 4/16 (1/6 from 3)

Yeah, they're a real fucking brain trust.

Maybe they should re-hire Jason Kidd. He'll crack the whip on those pesky 3-point shooters and have defenses stacking the box, waiting on Giannis to drive, just like old times.

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aggie08

aggie08 21379

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1 hour ago, d2o said:

Good to see things are about the same here.

Somehow, after all these years, I'm still pleasantly bemused by Aqua's (there are others, but he may be in a class of his own) willful ignorance.  Milwaukee leads the NBA in offensive efficiency and net rating playing for a coach that got the fucking Atlanta Hawks to 60 wins and the ECF.  They're finally doing what anybody with eyes has been screaming for 3 years: put a bunch of shooters around Giannis, and look out.  Giannis is the early season MVP, and is having his most efficient AND prolific season.

...but the two games that Aqua happened to look up the box score for were losses with poor shooting, so they're hacks.

Then, when called on it, he doubles down instead of taking 5 seconds to google "giannis stats." It's fascinating to me.

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d2o

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1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Somehow, after all these years, I'm still pleasantly bemused by Aqua's (there are others, but he may be in a class of his own) willful ignorance.  Milwaukee leads the NBA in offensive efficiency and net rating playing for a coach that got the fucking Atlanta Hawks to 60 wins and the ECF.  They're finally doing what anybody with eyes has been screaming for 3 years: put a bunch of shooters around Giannis, and look out.  Giannis is the early season MVP, and is having his most efficient AND prolific season.

...but the two games that Aqua happened to look up the box score for were losses with poor shooting, so they're hacks.

Then, when called on it, he doubles down instead of taking 5 seconds to google "giannis stats." It's fascinating to me.

Yeah that was pretty wild.  I'm loving MIL this yr and the Freak has taken yet another big step forward.   Pretty clearly the frontrunner for MVP right now.

 

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d2o

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16 minutes ago, huge said:

Beal sure would look good at the 2 in MIL.  Brogdon shouldn't be the starter on a contender.

I have no issues with Brogdon.  He is good for them because Bledsoe isn't a natural PG.   Gives them another combo guard who can make plays for others.     He's a good enough 3P shooter as well.  Beal would be an upgrade to a degree but he would want more of a share of the offense than Brogdon does and that could negatively effect their chemistry.   

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Thatguy

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On 11/26/2018 at 5:52 PM, immortal13 said:

I'm specifically talking about the 2016 Championship series. Try to keep up

We saw that in both 2015 and 2018.

On 11/26/2018 at 6:02 PM, hobbes2702 said:

It’s almost like we got to see what happens when they didn’t have Kyrie. 

Weird right? Kyrie and no Bron equals 3 lottery picks. Bron and no Kyrie equals deep playoff runs and a couple championship appearances.

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Thatguy

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16 hours ago, d2o said:

I have no issues with Brogdon.  He is good for them because Bledsoe isn't a natural PG.   Gives them another combo guard who can make plays for others.     He's a good enough 3P shooter as well.  Beal would be an upgrade to a degree but he would want more of a share of the offense than Brogdon does and that could negatively effect their chemistry.   

   That is the key. Sometimes you just need guys who understand their role. IMO, they just need a couple key role players to bolster their bench. Guys that can get you a couple buckets when the other guys are off. Outside of that they are learning a lesson that the Lakers are learning right now, and that young teams struggle with. You have to bring it every night. You are a litmus for teams on a nightly basis. Teams are getting up to play you, and if you don't meet that same energy you are going to have some ugly losses.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12771

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6 hours ago, Thatguy said:

We saw that in both 2015 and 2018.

Weird right? Kyrie and no Bron equals 3 lottery picks. Bron and no Kyrie equals deep playoff runs and a couple championship appearances.

Yea and with Kyrie they won a title.

 

23 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Somehow, after all these years, I'm still pleasantly bemused by Aqua's (there are others, but he may be in a class of his own) willful ignorance.  Milwaukee leads the NBA in offensive efficiency and net rating playing for a coach that got the fucking Atlanta Hawks to 60 wins and the ECF.  They're finally doing what anybody with eyes has been screaming for 3 years: put a bunch of shooters around Giannis, and look out.  Giannis is the early season MVP, and is having his most efficient AND prolific season.

...but the two games that Aqua happened to look up the box score for were losses with poor shooting, so they're hacks.

Then, when called on it, he doubles down instead of taking 5 seconds to google "giannis stats." It's fascinating to me.

People still want to use the “eye test” for basketball and ignore the numbers. 

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Vic Mackey

Vic Mackey 46919

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49 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Yea and with Kyrie they won a title.

 

People still want to use the “eye test” for basketball and ignore the numbers. 

With Kyrie they won a title. Yeah and with JR Smith and Kevin Love they won a title. Kyrie was the leader of lottery pick finishes before Lebron. Boston didn't miss him at all last season. Insert him back in and they slip back. Boston is better without Kyrie on the court.

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Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder 11103

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13 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

With Kyrie they won a title. Yeah and with JR Smith and Kevin Love they won a title. Kyrie was the leader of lottery pick finishes before Lebron. Boston didn't miss him at all last season. Insert him back in and they slip back. Boston is better without Kyrie on the court.

Boston was 46-20 with Kyrie when he got hurt, then they went 9-7 to finish the season with the #2 seed. They were not better without Kyrie last season. Now Hayward... well that's another story, but he should be coming off the bench this year until he's actually 100%. 

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aggie08

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18 minutes ago, Dutchrudder said:

Boston was 46-20 with Kyrie when he got hurt, then they went 9-7 to finish the season with the #2 seed. They were not better without Kyrie last season. Now Hayward... well that's another story, but he should be coming off the bench this year until he's actually 100%. 

Then they got Milwaukee (a young team coached by Jason Kidd's assistant), Philly (a team led essentially by rookies) and Cleveland (by far the worst version of them since LeBron returned) as their postseason draw.  What they accomplished in the playoffs was pretty damn impressive without a true star, don't get me wrong, but they aren't going anywhere in this year's Eastern Conference without a healthy Kyrie and probably a healthy Hayward.

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Thatguy

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16 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Then they got Milwaukee (a young team coached by Jason Kidd's assistant), Philly (a team led essentially by rookies) and Cleveland (by far the worst version of them since LeBron returned) as their postseason draw.  What they accomplished in the playoffs was pretty damn impressive without a true star, don't get me wrong, but they aren't going anywhere in this year's Eastern Conference without a healthy Kyrie and probably a healthy Hayward.

  I am interested to hear why you think there is a drop off with the Celtics.

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aggie08

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16 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

  I am interested to hear why you think there is a drop off with the Celtics.

Off the top of my head:

Hayward isn't healthy, and his confidence may be even further behind than his body.  He's a step slow and lacks explosion.  Heard a stat recently that he averaged a dunk a game in Utah; he has 3 total so far this year.

Kyrie isn't a natural creator and doesn't have the gravity of other elite point guards, and defenses have figured out he and Horford's two-man game to an extent (Horford rarely rolls to the rim or puts the ball on the floor if he catches it in space).  But, without a healthy Hayward, they have no other elite play makers.

Kyrie is back to playing shit defense after an uptick in effort last season.  Boston's defense still ranks among the best in the league, but every scoring guard in the league has taken a turn lighting them up.

Rozier (who's back around his career shooting numbers after an uptick in the playoffs) and Smart are two of the most inefficient players in the league, yet they depend on them for bench offense.

Tatum's shot attempts are up, but he loves him some long 2's.  Brown's shots are about the same, but he hasn't been able to hit the broadside of a barn.

No one on their entire team consistently gets to the rim or shoots free throws.  Even Kyrie, who has the handles to get to the rim at will, prefers to avoid contact and attempt tough lay-ups over seeking out foul shots.  Combine all that with poor offensive rebounding, and they get next to zero easy baskets. 

 

The dirty little secret is that the had most of the same offensive problems last year as well (regular season and playoffs), but the East sucked, and their defense was enough to keep them in most games.  Statistically, they're playing very similarly to how they did last year of both sides of the ball.  But the East is better, pace is up, and offenses around the league are better.  Harder to win games scoring 105 points.

 

 

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Thatguy

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3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Off the top of my head:

Hayward isn't healthy, and his confidence may be even further behind than his body.  He's a step slow and lacks explosion.  Heard a stat recently that he averaged a dunk a game in Utah; he has 3 total so far this year.

Kyrie isn't a natural creator and doesn't have the gravity of other elite point guards, and defenses have figured out he and Horford's two-man game to an extent (Horford rarely rolls to the rim or puts the ball on the floor if he catches it in space).  But, without a healthy Hayward, they have no other elite play makers.

Kyrie is back to playing shit defense after an uptick in effort last season.  Boston's defense still ranks among the best in the league, but every scoring guard in the league has taken a turn lighting them up.

Rozier (who's back around his career shooting numbers after an uptick in the playoffs) and Smart are two of the most inefficient players in the league, yet they depend on them for bench offense.

Tatum's shot attempts are up, but he loves him some long 2's.  Brown's shots are about the same, but he hasn't been able to hit the broadside of a barn.

No one on their entire team consistently gets to the rim or shoots free throws.  Even Kyrie, who has the handles to get to the rim at will, prefers to avoid contact and attempt tough lay-ups over seeking out foul shots.  Combine all that with poor offensive rebounding, and they get next to zero easy baskets. 

 

The dirty little secret is that the had most of the same offensive problems last year as well (regular season and playoffs), but the East sucked, and their defense was enough to keep them in most games.  Statistically, they're playing very similarly to how they did last year of both sides of the ball.  But the East is better, pace is up, and offenses around the league are better.  Harder to win games scoring 105 points.

 

 

  Correct. They are not as good defensively, and most importantly not as efficient offensively. However, as these discussions go, we are leaving a huge piece of why they are struggling out of the equation and that is the human element. Last year the Celtics ran DEEP in the playoffs. Kyrie went down and all the numbers went up for Rozier, Tatum, and Brown. Their efficiency went up as well. They likely left last year feeling like they turned the corner. Now you introduce Kyrie, who is not a rah rah guy, or a let me use my skills to get you an easier shot guy. I bet those guys have a lot of built up contempt. Here you have 3 dudes who all were being doted on by every media outlet  dropping back to pre-"sans Kyrie" productivity and I am sure they don't like it.

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