2018-19 NBA Season Thread

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

5 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

GS down double digits in the second half is utterly enjoyable to watch. 

This didn't even age..... Warriors up by 1 after a banked in FT and a Curry Flurry in the 3rd.  Not sure Cans have the intestinal fortitude to withstand a run like that.  We'll see.  

That said, they may or may not win tonight, but getting Mirotic back has remade the Cans.  Elfrid Payton is back too and they look like a playoff team... not a cship contender but a playoff team.

[Goo Punch 4275]

uh oh. AD goes down and he looks to be in serious pain. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

yeah, i guess getting kicked in the nuts will do that. 

[Machinator 32103]

Just an absurd level of scoring these days.

All sixteen teams that played today scored at least 100.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Machinator

[Goo Punch 4275]

Harden has scored 115 points in the last two games. 0 of those points have been assisted. 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

24 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Harden has scored 115 points in the last two games. 0 of those points have been assisted. 

It's an amazing stat I saw earlier..... In some ways, one of the hardest skills is to have is the ability to get your own, quality look in ISO.  Thereby, it's incredible to think about how good an ISO player Harden is and how elite he his with the ball in his hands.  On the other hand, to not received a pass to score is an indictment not only on your teammates but the domination of the ball to the detriment of your overall team.  I think the next 2-3 weeks could be really tough for the Rockets with no CP3 or Capela.  They're lucky the next 10 is pretty reasonable with games vs Lakers (no Lebron), Orlando, NYK, Pho, and Sac.  Be interesting if they can go .500.  Tough little 3 game stretch inside that 10 with NO, @Den, @Utah on b2b.  It's going to be great for Harden's MVP chances.... He's gotta have rocketed (get it, get it) to the top of the list thus far...

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[d2o 1603]

6 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It's an amazing stat I saw earlier..... In some ways, one of the hardest skills is to have is the ability to get your own, quality look in ISO.  Thereby, it's incredible to think about how good an ISO player Harden is and how elite he his with the ball in his hands.  On the other hand, to not received a pass to score is an indictment not only on your teammates but the domination of the ball to the detriment of your overall team.  I think the next 2-3 weeks could be really tough for the Rockets with no CP3 or Capela.  They're lucky the next 10 is pretty reasonable with games vs Lakers (no Lebron), Orlando, NYK, Pho, and Sac.  Be interesting if they can go .500.  Tough little 3 game stretch inside that 10 with NO, @Den, @Utah on b2b.  It's going to be great for Harden's MVP chances.... He's gotta have rocketed (get it, get it) to the top of the list thus far...

 

Hard to pass it to Harden when he always has the ball and the only time he gives it up is when he expects you to shoot.

[Goo Punch 4275]

23 minutes ago, d2o said:

Hard to pass it to Harden when he always has the ball and the only time he gives it up is when he expects you to shoot.

he's fourth in the nba in assists and he's arguably the most unstoppable player ever, so it seems like he might be doing it correctly. 

[aggie08 21800]

10 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Holy Fuck.... didn't see the 18 assists.  27-18 for Kyrie.  He's a bad man....

Such a weird week for Kyrie. First he goes ballistic on Hayward for not getting him the ball at the end of a game. Then he calls out the Celtics' youth publicly with all the tact of the hammer. Then apologizes for both. Then has one of his best games ever. Then rather cryptically tells the media that he recently called LeBron to apologize for acting like an inpatient, punk kid, and not understanding how hard it is to lead.

What in the fuck.

[52-80 19377]

19 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Such a weird week for Kyrie. First he goes ballistic on Hayward for not getting him the ball at the end of a game. Then he calls out the Celtics' youth publicly with all the tact of the hammer. Then apologizes for both. Then has one of his best games ever. Then rather cryptically tells the media that he recently called LeBron to apologize for acting like an inpatient, punk kid, and not understanding how hard it is to lead.

What in the fuck.

its like the world just flipped on its hinge.

[aggie08 21800]

I liked Stan Van Gundy's comment at halftime of one of last night's game. They flashed a graphic that Steph is averaging 33 points on something stupid like 55/50/95 shooting for the month of January, and it's ho-hum in comparison to Harden's run. Barely even registers.

Dude's approaching Westbrook in 2017 usage.

Edited January 17, 2019 by aggie08

[Vic Mackey 47959]

He will flame out in the playoffs as usual.

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

Kyrie last night..... Figuring out how difficult leadership is.  Had to apologize to Lebron for being young and dumb.  I like it.  Self-awareness isn't something that most players talk about.  Now, will he be able to lead his team back to the ECF or need another year to truly figure it out or never figure it out like Lebron did?

 

[aggie08 21800]

Even if he meant it genuinely, pretty poor timing to bring it up. Apologizing for being young and dumb and not following leadership less than a week after criticizing the Celtics for being young and dumb and not following his lead doesn't scream coincidence.

[Machinator 32103]

 

[ztejas 44227]

4 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

and he's arguably the most unstoppable player ever,

So we're just letting this one slide?

He's a career .580 TS% in the playoffs. (on just 22 ppg)

I mean what he's doing right now is astounding but if he tries to keep it up for too long he's going to burn out by March. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by ztejas

[d2o 1603]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

Even if he meant it genuinely, pretty poor timing to bring it up. Apologizing for being young and dumb and not following leadership less than a week after criticizing the Celtics for being young and dumb and not following his lead doesn't scream coincidence.

Definitely had a point in bringing it up to the press now.   Trying to get "his" young guys now to see an example he wants them to follow.

[d2o 1603]

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

I liked Stan Van Gundy's comment at halftime of one of last night's game. They flashed a graphic that Steph is averaging 33 points on something stupid like 55/50/95 shooting for the month of January, and it's ho-hum in comparison to Harden's run. Barely even registers.

Dude's approaching Westbrook in 2017 usage.

That's really all I am saying.    When Russ won MVP doing this many people (particularly Rocket fans) lost their shit and swore how terrible it was to play with Russ and dismissed his season.    Now...................

[BigOrange1 6611]

russ didn't do THIS

[Goo Punch 4275]

28 minutes ago, ztejas said:

So we're just letting this one slide?

He's a career .580 TS% in the playoffs. (on just 22 ppg)

I mean what he's doing right now is astounding but if he tries to keep it up for too long he's going to burn out by March. 

what is there to let slide? he is absolutely in the conversation if most unguardable players ever. no question. 

[d2o 1603]

4 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

russ didn't do THIS

Harden avg's 4 more pts.   Russ avg'd 2 more assts and 4 more rebs.  Same difference.   They shot similarly 43.8/37.5/86.5 for Harden 42.5/34.3/84.5 for Russ.  Season isn't over for Harden but both led middling teams in their conference.  Harden's usage 40.0  Russ 41.4

[Goo Punch 4275]

24 minutes ago, d2o said:

That's really all I am saying.    When Russ won MVP doing this many people (particularly Rocket fans) lost their shit and swore how terrible it was to play with Russ and dismissed his season.    Now...................

Russ was stat chasing in absurdly obvious and selfish ways, spending an entire season proving a point to everyone. it's not even close to what Harden is doing now, which is going all 2K on everyone within the structure and scheme of his offense. He's averaging more than 42 ppg for the last month. He's breaking records nightly and doing things that haven't been done in decades on a regular basis. And now he's gone for 50+ in back to back nights in response to losing Capela. You act as if the entire world of people who talk about the NBA are all conspiring to diss Russell Westbrook when the truth is that what Harden is doing is nothing like what Russ did- it is much, much more impressive, and it's in an effort to help Houston win, not to prove to everyone how awesome he is without Kevin Durant on his team. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Goo Punch

[aggie08 21800]

23 minutes ago, d2o said:

That's really all I am saying.    When Russ won MVP doing this many people (particularly Rocket fans) lost their shit and swore how terrible it was to play with Russ and dismissed his season.    Now...................

And again, I'd say that winning is a fairly substantial differentiator.  OKC was a fringe playoff team that entire season.  Houston was a few timely shots away from a ring last year playing a slightly more palatable version of what Harden is doing now.  This season, Harden's theatrics have pulled them out conference basement and look to have reestablished Houston as a top 3 team in the West.  Of course that matters to the narrative, as it should.

I'm not going to sit here and say that I particularly like watching Houston--I don't, at all--but it works for them, and it seems like everyone mostly buys in.  The numbers should also normalize a little when CP3 and EG are back at 100%.

Edited January 17, 2019 by aggie08

[Goo Punch 4275]

4 minutes ago, d2o said:

Harden avg's 4 more pts.   Russ avg'd 2 more assts and 4 more rebs.  Same difference.   They shot similarly 43.8/37.5/86.5 for Harden 42.5/34.3/84.5 for Russ.  Season isn't over for Harden but both led middling teams in their conference.  Harden's usage 40.0  Russ 41.4

you keep quoting the stats when the stats are not the story. Russ was boxing out teammates for rebounds, checking his stats on the scoreboard and chasing triple doubles, selfishly and hilariously and overtly stat chasing, and everyone on his team was in on the act. It was comical. Kanter would get a rebound under the rim and instead of scoring he'd immediately swivel his head looking for Russ. Do we really need to post the videos of Russ' hilarious selfishness? these aren't even remotely similar situations. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Goo Punch

[d2o 1603]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

And again, I'd say that winning is a fairly substantial differentiator.  OKC was a fringe playoff team that entire season.  Houston was a few timely shots away from a ring last year playing a slightly more palatable version of what Harden is doing now.  This season, Harden's theatrics have pulled them out conference basement and look to have reestablished Houston as a top 3 team in the West.  

I'm not going to sit here and say that I particularly like watching Houston--I don't, at all--but it works for them, and it seems like everyone mostly buys in.  The numbers should also normalize a little when CP3 and EG are back at 100%.

OKC finished 6th that yr with 46 wins.   HOU is 5th currently on pace for 48 wins and had to go on a 10-5 run to get there.  They just lost a huge piece so it's not a guarantee that they get to 48 wins.    I get it some are fans of HOU and all things OK suck but let's have a little bit of impartiality.   Just a little.....maybe.........

[Goo Punch 4275]

@d2o you can go ahead and respond to my posts whenever you feel like it. the two situations are not analogous, no matter how similar their stats may be. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 minute ago, d2o said:

OKC finished 6th that yr with 46 wins.   HOU is 5th currently on pace for 48 wins and had to go on a 10-5 run to get there.  They just lost a huge piece so it's not a guarantee that they get to 48 wins.    I get it some are fans of HOU and all things OK suck but let's have a little bit of impartiality.   Just a little.....maybe.........

i'm not a houston fan and i am a russell westbrook fan and i 100% disagree with your take and think that your logic is terribly flawed. it has nothing to do with homerism. 

[ztejas 44227]

16 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

what is there to let slide? he is absolutely in the conversation if most unguardable players ever. no question. 

That's fine. But he is not "arguably" #1. That's absurd. You need to do it in the playoffs to lay claim to that title. Harden is not in the pantheon of all-time playoff scorers the way West, Kareem*, MJ, Shaq, LeBron and Durant are. ( Steph edges him in that regard, too).

Re: WBrook vs. Harden I'm on your side. What he's doing right now is more impressive than anything Westbrook has ever done. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by ztejas

[Goo Punch 4275]

watch Russ help his team win by leaving his man on every single possession in pursuit of hollow rebounds that any number of his big men teammates could have easily gotten- rebounds that every other PG in the league leaves for his big men:

Andre Drummond and Rudy Gobert and Clint Capela get 20 rebounds a night because they get 10 uncontested boards per game. Russ is *literally* the only PG in the NBA hanging out underneath the rim on FTs going for rebounds that his bigger teammates can get. Russ chasing hollow stats for a year with the help of his teammates is nowhere near as impressive as what Harden is doing. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Goo Punch

[aggie08 21800]

2 minutes ago, d2o said:

OKC finished 6th that yr with 46 wins.   HOU is 5th currently on pace for 48 wins and had to go on a 10-5 run to get there.  They just lost a huge piece so it's not a guarantee that they get to 48 wins.    I get it some are fans of HOU and all things OK suck but let's have a little bit of impartiality.   Just a little.....maybe.........

It's actually a 14-5 run.  With wins over literally every Western Conference playoff team except for LAC (who they didn't play).  Without their 2nd and 4th best players, and the last two without their 3rd best. They're not going to be a 6 seed.

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

It's actually a 14-5 run.  With wins over literally every Western Conference playoff team except for LAC (who they didn't play).  Without their 2nd and 4th best players, and the last two without their 3rd best. They're not going to be a 6 seed.

Harden is trying to win and accruing stats within the framework of his offense; Russ was chasing hollow stats with the help of his teammates and none of it was done in the earnest pursuit of victory. end of fucking argument, jesus christ. can we please *not* go back in time and relive one of the dumbest and most arduous topics of discussion in shaggy history? because, like, why?

Edited January 17, 2019 by Goo Punch

[aggie08 21800]

15 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

Harden is trying to win and accruing stats within the framework of his offense;

This part I'll call you on.  It's hard to compliment a guy for staying within the framework of the offense when he is the offense.  He's going to keep shooting, make or miss.  Just as Russ was OKC's offense in 2017.

The major difference being that James Harden has the skill set to carry an elite NBA offense (#2 this year after being historically great last season) almost entirely on his own.  Russ, obviously, did not and lacked self-awareness.

Edited January 17, 2019 by aggie08

[Goo Punch 4275]

4 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

This part I'll call you on.  It's hard to compliment a guy for staying within the framework of the offense when he is the offense.  He's going to keep shooting, make or miss.  Just as Russ was OKC's offense in 2017.

The major difference being that James Harden has the skill set to carry an elite NBA offense (#2 this year after being a historic offense last season) almost entirely on his own.  Russ, obviously, did not and lacked self-awareness.

the major difference is that one of them is trying to win games and the other was trying to get stats. that's literally, actually, factually, truthfully the reason that the two seasons aren't being compared by people. it's not because of some pro-houston, anti oklahoma bias as d20 claims. that type of bias would only apply regionally, whereas nobody anywhere is comparing the two seasons because *again*, Russ wasn't trying to win games, and *again*, this argument was awful the first time around and there's no need to have it again. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Goo Punch

[BigOrange1 6611]

32 minutes ago, d2o said:

Harden avg's 4 more pts.   Russ avg'd 2 more assts and 4 more rebs.  Same difference.   They shot similarly 43.8/37.5/86.5 for Harden 42.5/34.3/84.5 for Russ.  Season isn't over for Harden but both led middling teams in their conference.  Harden's usage 40.0  Russ 41.4

go ahead and show me the 18 stretch game where russ averaged 42.2 ppg while shooting 38% from 3 (while never scoring fewer than 32 points in a single game).

this is a historic fucking run that harden is on. 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

What are folks defining "unstoppable" probably matters.  Unstoppable for a possession?  For a game?  For a season?  In the context of playing winning basketball?  Just accumulating stats?  It all sort of matters and you guys are trying to talk over each other without agreeing on expressly what you're talking about.  Harden's run here the last 10-15 games is incredible and there's not doubt he's an offensive savant within MDA's high PNR, heavy ISO system.  Houston has also built a team specifically tailored around his (and CP3's to a degree) skill set.  A bunch of shooters who don't mind watching a high level player initiate everything and will shoot when called upon along with some heavy rebounders and defenders who are good with setting high PNR and diving to the rim.  So context matter too.... Nothing wrong with saying Harden is one of the best offensive players of the modern era though.  

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

5 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

go ahead and show me the 18 stretch game where russ averaged 42.2 ppg while shooting 38% from 3 (while never scoring fewer than 32 points in a single game).

this is a historic fucking run that harden is on. 

It is, but Westbrook had like 7 triple doubles consecutively and missed an 8th by a single assist.  Doubt he had the shooting efficiency though.  Not sure about the turnovers.  Both seasons and streaks are pretty historic.

[ztejas 44227]

10 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

What are folks defining "unstoppable" probably matters.  Unstoppable for a possession?  For a game?  For a season?  In the context of playing winning basketball?  Just accumulating stats?  It all sort of matters and you guys are trying to talk over each other without agreeing on expressly what you're talking about.  Harden's run here the last 10-15 games is incredible and there's not doubt he's an offensive savant within MDA's high PNR, heavy ISO system.  Houston has also built a team specifically tailored around his (and CP3's to a degree) skill set.  A bunch of shooters who don't mind watching a high level player initiate everything and will shoot when called upon along with some heavy rebounders and defenders who are good with setting high PNR and diving to the rim.  So context matter too.... Nothing wrong with saying Harden is one of the best offensive players of the modern era though.  

I don't think "unstoppable" requires much nuance. I mean it's self-explanatory, right? Can a defense stop you from scoring when they are throwing everything they can at you? 

In this context, the playoffs matter, because in the playoffs teams play better defense. So Harden can be unstoppable for 15 games in the regular season, but if he isn't doing it as consistently in the playoffs as the guys I listed did/do then I think you have to put him a peg down.

I think it's easier for a playoff defense to scheme and disrupt Harden than it is to do the same against players like Shaq, Hakeem or Durant. Some of that is simply due to size, so maybe we should include a qualifier of "for his height". 

Durant has the 8th most 25 point playoff games and 7th most 30 and 35 point playoff games in NBA History and he just turned 30.

That's fucking unstoppable.

[Dutchrudder 11243]

11 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I don't think "unstoppable" requires much nuance. I mean it's self-explanatory, right? Can a defense stop you from scoring when they are throwing everything they can at you? 

In this context, the playoffs matter, because in the playoffs teams play better defense. So Harden can be unstoppable for 15 games in the regular season, but if he isn't doing it as consistently in the playoffs as the guys I listed did/do then I think you have to put him a peg down.

I think it's easier for a playoff defense to scheme and disrupt Harden than it is to do the same against players like Shaq, Hakeem or Durant. Some of that is simply due to size, so maybe we should include a qualifier of "for his height". 

Durant has the 8th most 25 point playoff games and 7th most 30 and 35 point playoff games in NBA History and he just turned 30.

That's fucking unstoppable.

It's hyperbole. No player is truly "unstoppable" by definition of the word. 

[d2o 1603]

 

41 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

It is, but Westbrook had like 7 triple doubles consecutively and missed an 8th by a single assist.  Doubt he had the shooting efficiency though.  Not sure about the turnovers.  Both seasons and streaks are pretty historic.

He actually shot 41.6% from 3 during that 8 game stretch (30/72) which is pretty amazing for him.    Avg'd 35/12.2/11.6

Again Harden is shooting 37.5% from 3 on the season and Russ shot 34.3% during his MVP season.   That isnt a huge difference at all.  Especially when Harden is considered a very good shooter and Russ is pretty terrible from distance.

Really that is all I am saying that both are incredible.     Its just interesting how one is celebrated and the other was diminished by many here.

Edited January 17, 2019 by d2o

[52-80 19377]

56 minutes ago, d2o said:

 

He actually shot 41.6% from 3 during that 8 game stretch (30/72) which is pretty amazing for him.    Avg'd 35/12.2/11.6

Again Harden is shooting 37.5% from 3 on the season and Russ shot 34.3% during his MVP season.   That isnt a huge difference at all.  Especially when Harden is considered a very good shooter and Russ is pretty terrible from distance.

Really that is all I am saying that both are incredible.     Its just interesting how one is celebrated and the other was diminished by many here.

"Nobody has done THIS -- Harden scores in ways that hasn't been done in decades!"

"Russ scores, rebounds, and assists in ways that hasn't been done in decades" = "but they're just stats and stats don't matter!

The mental gymnastics is hilarious.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

This is what happens when it's leaked you want to move one of your past first round picks and don't get any offers close to what you were expecting..... smh.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

 

He actually shot 41.6% from 3 during that 8 game stretch (30/72) which is pretty amazing for him.    Avg'd 35/12.2/11.6

Again Harden is shooting 37.5% from 3 on the season and Russ shot 34.3% during his MVP season.   That isnt a huge difference at all.  Especially when Harden is considered a very good shooter and Russ is pretty terrible from distance.

Really that is all I am saying that both are incredible.     Its just interesting how one is celebrated and the other was diminished by many here.

If that's true, then he was terrible from 2 b/c his overall shooting percentage during that 8 game run was 37.8%.  Regardless, accumulating all those stats takes great effort and the Thunder were 6-2 in that span.

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

4 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Kyrie last night..... Figuring out how difficult leadership is.  Had to apologize to Lebron for being young and dumb.  I like it.  Self-awareness isn't something that most players talk about.  Now, will he be able to lead his team back to the ECF or need another year to truly figure it out or never figure it out like Lebron did?

 

Adding context to this makes it even crazier....

 

[Machinator 32103]

[CBT 1290]

35 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

This is what happens when it's leaked you want to move one of your past first round picks and don't get any offers close to what you were expecting..... smh.

 

Highly unlikely the Mavericks FO leaked anything. It was DSJ's people. Look who broke the story. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by CBT

[Patrick Bateman 3980]

1 minute ago, CBT said:

Highly unlikely the Mavericks FO leaked anything. It was DSJ's people. Look who broke the story. 

I wouldn't doubt it, but it would have been easy to put a cork in it and say you weren't shopping him.  The Dallas FO decided not to do that.  It's pretty obvious that Smith and Carlisle are having issues and may not be able to find common ground.  If he doesn't get moved by the deadline, I think he gets traded in the offseason.

[CBT 1290]

The Dallas FO decided not to talk to anyone about personnel decisions, which is their norm. The only issue it seems is that DSJ (or his people) doesn't like the fact that he needs to play off the ball more because of the emergence of Luka. It's a shame for Dallas really; he still has a big chance of becoming a good player in the league. 

[Vic Mackey 47959]

...

[ztejas 44227]

12 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

...

This can't possibly go wrong.

[aggie08 21800]

43 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Good luck picking the 11th and 12th guys who are truly deserving on the Eastern Conference All-Stars.

Giannis

Kemba

Simmons

Kyrie

Butler

Embiid

Dipo

Blake

Lowry - not a great year, but high assist numbers

Vucevic

 

then...???

Beal maybe?

Siakam?

Tatum on name alone

Edited January 17, 2019 by aggie08