Price Negotiation on new HVAC System

[Bernard 879]

Goodman is also made in Texas (near Houston) if that matters. 

Bernard

[Jkwellborn 6,745]

My current house came with two expensive Trane systems. They break sometimes too. Trane replacements parts are also very expensive. No way in hell I’d spend that kind of money for AC. Goodman all the way. 
One of the benefits of Goodman is that they are sold to distributors who sell them to any licensed AC tech. Other brands are typically sold through a much tighter network of authorized dealers. Competition is a good thing, for consumers. 
Bernard

They sell Trane at Lowe’s or Home Depot. Or do you have to get a tech to get it for you?

[Bernard 879]

I don’t think you, or any random licenced AC tech, can walk into Home Depot and walk out with a Trane AC system on your cart. HD is selling the whole package, installed by the installation company of their choice, not yours. It’s like buying granite counter tops at Home Depot. The guy in the store just types your name and address into the computer. Everything else is third party.

Bernard

[Jkwellborn 6,745]

That’s what I was wondering. I knew one of them carried them and I kinda figured it was like their other stuff

[William_Cannon 86]

The brand of unit is going to be a factor too.

Proper installation is more important. There are a lot of jumpers and configurations. Improper setup will lead to higher failure rates and lower efficiency.

Get a recommendation on a good installer and don’t sweat paying a little more.

[Gil Bang 26,025]

8 hours ago, Bernard said:

My current house came with two expensive Trane systems. They break sometimes too. Trane replacements parts are also very expensive. No way in hell I’d spend that kind of money for AC. Goodman all the way. 

One of the benefits of Goodman is that they are sold to distributors who sell them to any licensed AC tech. Other brands are typically sold through a much tighter network of authorized dealers. Competition is a good thing, for consumers. 

Bernard

My HVAC guy SWEARS by Goodman.  He's visited the factory and all that shit.  He thinks that they're rock-solid. 

[Gil Bang 26,025]

On 10/19/2018 at 7:26 AM, SquishMitten said:

Need to replace one of mine as well. Been wondering if I could get clever and buy a home warranty and start getting it worked that way. Anybody ever tried that? Only concern is that it won’t be broken “enough” for them to cover a full replacement, but I’m sure that can be arranged...

Doesn't work.  They will cover only if the unit has been serviced by a licensed HVAC company in the last 6 months. If you can get somebody to put a bandaid on it and give you a receipt, it might work.  I'm in real estate, and I've seen warranty companies install new units.  It does happen. 

[Guest]

Had to get two new ones in Feb.

Two brand new Rheem's, quote was $12k for both. Paid cash, got it for $10.5k. HVAC is crazy expensive. One of my good friends bought a house, got house poor, and 6 months later had to finance new HVAC. Youch.

[Bernard 879]

The 31 year old Payne AC unit at my mom’s rental townhouse just crapped out. New system going in right now. 

3 tons. 14 SEER. New air handler with electric heat. Condenser delivered by crane to roof top. Goodman equipment. $4,200.

The guy I’ve been using for years is now a Bryant (owned by Carrier) dealer. He recommended Bryant. I’m sticking with Goodman. Same price.

Bernard

[YChang 3,462]

Ended up with the Trane XR16... couldn't justify the XR18 or 17's price. Either way it's so much better than what it replaced. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by YChang

[Bernard 879]

Interesting Tidbit: While registering the serial numbers of my mom’s new AC for Goodman’s 10-year warranty I noticed it was manufactured exactly 8 days before being installed. Impressive logistics. 

Bernard

[Horn of Gabriel 1,671]

Anyone have recommendations in the Cedar Park/Austin area?  One of our systems crapped out, inspection says it's a leak, likely in the machinery so it makes sense to replace it at this point (15 years old).  Got quotes for good/better/best ranging from 6.3K to 10K for Carrier systems up to 20 seer (3 ton, both furnace and outside unit) from Covenant, our normal service provider.  We're managing with space heaters for now so would like to get it right - anyone have a trusted provider?

[YChang 3,462]

Anyone have recommendations in the Cedar Park/Austin area?  One of our systems crapped out, inspection says it's a leak, likely in the machinery so it makes sense to replace it at this point (15 years old).  Got quotes for good/better/best ranging from 6.3K to 10K for Carrier systems up to 20 seer (3 ton, both furnace and outside unit) from Covenant, our normal service provider.  We're managing with space heaters for now so would like to get it right - anyone have a trusted provider?

I went with Honest Air Conditioning.

[BottleRocket 647]

Anyone have recommendations in the Cedar Park/Austin area?  One of our systems crapped out, inspection says it's a leak, likely in the machinery so it makes sense to replace it at this point (15 years old).  Got quotes for good/better/best ranging from 6.3K to 10K for Carrier systems up to 20 seer (3 ton, both furnace and outside unit) from Covenant, our normal service provider.  We're managing with space heaters for now so would like to get it right - anyone have a trusted provider?

I got bids from Fox, Stan’s, and one other I can’t remember. Tried to get them apples to apples and surprisingly got the best deal from Fox but they were all in the same ballpark.

[Jkwellborn 6,745]

Anyone have recommendations in the Cedar Park/Austin area?  One of our systems crapped out, inspection says it's a leak, likely in the machinery so it makes sense to replace it at this point (15 years old).  Got quotes for good/better/best ranging from 6.3K to 10K for Carrier systems up to 20 seer (3 ton, both furnace and outside unit) from Covenant, our normal service provider.  We're managing with space heaters for now so would like to get it right - anyone have a trusted provider?

Don’t waste your money on a 20 seer

[Bevo 13,601]

Who has the best price for a 4 ton HVAC system in N. Austin/Cedar Park? Not ready yet, but my capacitor just went out and the unit is 13 years old. I'd rather prepare early than be stuck asking my wife for help.

[Bernard 879]

Don’t sweat it. Capacitors fail. It’s zero reflection on the health of the rest of the system. Assume you’ll make it to 20 years, or more. I put a Goodman in my mom’s house in 1993. It’s still going strong, but it’s had the capacitor replaced a few times.

Bernard

[Bevo 13,601]

3 hours ago, Bernard said:

Don’t sweat it. Capacitors fail. It’s zero reflection on the health of the rest of the system. Assume you’ll make it to 20 years, or more. I put a Goodman in my mom’s house in 1993. It’s still going strong, but it’s had the capacitor replaced a few times.

Bernard

Yeah, I get it but it is never a bad thing to be prepared. Yesterday, I was 95% sure it was the capacitor but just in case it was a compressor problem, I went through this thread. I noticed that you were able to get an install done for around $4000 where other people were being charged $8000. So when the repair guy put in the capacitor, I asked him about how much a new system would cost and he told me around $7500 starting. A 4 ton 16 Seer Goodman from your link or from Amazon is around $1600 and about $3600 with the indoor cased evaporator coil and natural gas furnace. So the labor being charged is approximately $4000. Couldn't 1 experienced person do it in half a day? That labor charge is too high even if you consider it takes 2 people to get that stuff in the attic.

[Bernard 879]

Time of year matters. Supply and demand. A new AC in Texas costs more in August than in January. A new system install is more like a full day for two guys. They have to the the equipment on site, and haul off your old junk. Throw in some extra parts too like a new line set and a new pad. All that said, these guy make out like bandits during hot summer months when they are all busy and a homeowners are sitting in hot houses with broken systems. Even worse, many AC guys are actual bandits. They will lie through their teeth about the repairs your system really needs. MANY a homeowner has been sold a new system when all they needed was a $30 capacitor. 

 Bernard

[Bevo 13,601]

44 minutes ago, Bernard said:

Time of year matters. Supply and demand. A new AC in Texas costs more in August than in January. A new system install is more like a full day for two guys. They have to the the equipment on site, and haul off your old junk. Throw in some extra parts too like a new line set and a new pad. All that said, these guy make out like bandits during hot summer months when they are all busy and a homeowners are sitting in hot houses with broken systems. Even worse, many AC guys are actual bandits. They will lie through their teeth about the repairs your system really needs. MANY a homeowner has been sold a new system when all they needed was a $30 capacitor. 

 Bernard

Well my $30 capacitor cost me $280. He did clean my system though (and broke my hose - one of those expensive flex types). He seemed like a pretty nice guy though. I called at 9:00pm to see if they could come out the next day and he made it there in about 30minutes. Based on what I told him though, he pretty much already knew it was the capacitor.

[Bernard 879]

Call it a win. Lots of AC would have told you straight up your compressor is dead and you need a new unit, especially if you’re a woman. Same day service. 9:30 PM arrival. Sleeping in a cool house that same night. Money well spent.

Bernard

[ROFL BOX 6,649]

As noted somewhere on Shag... I have an AC guy & I think he has been out to maybe 2 or 3 houses for y'all.  Used to run my roofing crew until he went to school 10 years ago & now 8 years licensed.

1 Man show, reliable, not insane prices.  Send a PM if you want the info.

Lives near 183 / Ben White kinda area, travels all over the CenTex.

[Nueces River Rat 5,539]

On 8/12/2020 at 10:36 PM, Bevo said:

Who has the best price for a 4 ton HVAC system in N. Austin/Cedar Park? Not ready yet, but my capacitor just went out and the unit is 13 years old. I'd rather prepare early than be stuck asking my wife for help.

Like others noted,  go for a temporary fix right now if possible and stretch a new purchase out until what we call winter in most of Texas.  Used to be in the newspapers, the AC companies during that time span were begging for business and would advertise not only good discounts, but other stuff like a couple of years of free filters, purification systems, etc.   

And with a new system, you will save money with your summer usage (my summer usage was $400 plus, now mid $200's).   My original system was 14 years old and came with the house we built which in most cases the builders go with whatever they can get on a cost savings basis for them.  It probably was not the most energy efficient unit available back in 2004 although it had Energy Star labels on it and all that jazz in the instruction manual.   I know when we build our new home in a few years, I will pay more attention to that detail for sure.  Especially if we do the smart home thing.  

[TwiceHorn 31,537]

On 8/14/2020 at 1:18 AM, Bernard said:

Don’t sweat it. Capacitors fail. It’s zero reflection on the health of the rest of the system. Assume you’ll make it to 20 years, or more. I put a Goodman in my mom’s house in 1993. It’s still going strong, but it’s had the capacitor replaced a few times.

Bernard

20 years is optimistic.  Not so much for a 93 unit, but with every year that passes, the expected life goes down.

[Jkwellborn 6,745]

20 years is optimistic.  Not so much for a 93 unit, but with every year that passes, the expected life goes down.

I can remember swapping out units that were around 40 years old when I was a kid. Still running too.

[Bernard 879]

8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

20 years is optimistic.  Not so much for a 93 unit, but with every year that passes, the expected life goes down.

I disagree. Compressors are getting better, not worse. When I had that 1993 unit installed, Goodman was the new name for Janitrol AC units. Some folks told me back then that Janitrol/Goodman was trash and wouldn’t last. My job back then was CRE acquisitions; strip centers and warehouses. Our in-house AC guy liked Goodman. So did one of our property managers. They’ve been proven right. 

I bought the system on our company account. 5-ton condenser, coil, air handler with electric heat, and all new ductwork in the attic: $2,000. Paid our guy and his helpers $1,000 to install. The outside unit looks pretty janky after 27 years in the sun, but still blows cold. 

Bernard

[TwiceHorn 31,537]

7 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

I can remember swapping out units that were around 40 years old when I was a kid. Still running too.

My parent's three-phase Carrier, OEM with the house in 1950, went out in 1991 because lightning struck a transformer and fused the compressor coil winding.

Guy that replaced it said it was a shame because they would be replaced every 15 years.  Between my parents, me, our friends and other family, you could set your watch by it.  Carrier, Trane, Lennox.

[Jkwellborn 6,745]

Chrysler used to make an awesome unit. We always joked when we worked on one or replaced it that it must have been about 2 SEER.

[Bevo 13,601]

My AC went out again last night. Is there anything that can cause capacitors to go out? Hopefully, it was just poor manufacturing of the capacitor.

[Jkwellborn 6,745]

My AC went out again last night. Is there anything that can cause capacitors to go out? Hopefully, it was just poor manufacturing of the capacitor.

Yeah, using them. They aren’t made to last, at least not like they used to be. Turn the unit on and way down. Go put a stick in the condenser and spin the fan. This is just if the outdoor unit doesn’t come on.

[Updawg 2,286]

Depending on how much you want to invest there like some hard starter kits that might help out

[Bevo 13,601]

ROFL Box hooked me up. Looking good so far.

[Bevo 13,601]

2 hours ago, Bevo said:

ROFL Box hooked me up. Looking good so far.

Everything is complete. ROFL's contact did great work at a great price.

 

[ROFL BOX 6,649]

Glad it worked out well for you.

[Steel Shank 9,432]

How do you know when your capacitor is bad and not something else?

[Hank Scorpio 17,731]

You gotta check the capacity. 

[Jkwellborn 6,745]

How do you know when your capacitor is bad and not something else?

Look at it. If the top is swollen, it’s most likely bad. If the unit is humming, but the fan isn’t spinning, try to spin it with a stick. If it starts spinning, you need a capacitor. Capacitors and ants in the contacts were one of the most common things we dealt with when I was younger.

[Steel Shank 9,432]

20 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

Look at it. If the top is swollen, it’s most likely bad. If the unit is humming, but the fan isn’t spinning, try to spin it with a stick. If it starts spinning, you need a capacitor. Capacitors and ants in the contacts were one of the most common things we dealt with when I was younger.

Thanks. That's what I was looking for.

[Bevo 13,601]

12 hours ago, Steel Shank said:

Thanks. That's what I was looking for.

Just FYI in case your husband does most of the repairs - Capacitors hold a charge and can shock the fuck out of you so be careful handling them. Definitely, don't put a steel shank across the leads.

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Bevo

[Steel Shank 9,432]

@Bevo, thanks. I wish my wife would do some shit. Maybe I'll show her your post.

[Jkwellborn 6,745]

Just FYI in case your husband does most of the repairs - Capacitors hold a charge and can shock the fuck out of you so be careful handling them. Definitely, don't put a steel shank across the leads.
 
 
 

That’s not entirely true. They’ll shock the fuck out of you. But in order to discharge them, you literally put a screwdriver between the posts. Obviously, hold it by the handle and make sure you aren’t touching any metal.

[TwiceHorn 31,537]

3 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

That’s not entirely true. They’ll shock the fuck out of you. But in order to discharge them, you literally put a screwdriver between the posts. Obviously, hold it by the handle and make sure you aren’t touching any metal.

Isn't there some safer way to discharge a capacitor?  Seems to me there is, but I can't recall it.

Even if you don't get shocked, that discharge can be quite a jolt.

[CooterBrown 18,031]

I can remember swapping out units that were around 40 years old when I was a kid. Still running too.

I bought my house in 2014 and it still had the original Day and Night AC and furnace from 1962. 52 years and still running. The furnace got red tagged by the gas company on move in so i replaced everything with Trane.

[Jkwellborn 6,745]

Isn't there some safer way to discharge a capacitor?  Seems to me there is, but I can't recall it.
Even if you don't get shocked, that discharge can be quite a jolt.

Might be a different way. Never heard or saw it done differently. Never heard about it actually doing anything when you discharge them either.

[blacklab 11,952]

This is what we used on the sub to discharge capacitors

 

Available on Ebay for $79

https://www.ebay.com/i/192996394873?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=192996394873&targetid=935065066947&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9028299&poi=&campaignid=10454522096&mkgroupid=104612011900&rlsatarget=pla-935065066947&abcId=2146002&merchantid=101721898&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI4fnJ-5nE6wIVjcDACh0pcAGDEAsYBSABEgJZ-PD_BwE

 

[ROFL BOX 6,649]

Say, BlackLab - what subs were you on?  I know it's a somewhat smaller community, you Bubbleheads - a pal 'o mine (the one we helped with the generator when he was ISAF, back on Shag 1.0) was 8 years on 'em & like you, he's in the 6'2" range.