2018-19 Big 12 Basketball Thread

[El Diablo 4,232]

With the quality of players that they get on campus year after year even their "down" years are better than most programs. They'll be fine by March. 

[spystud13 2,371]

Jaylen Fisher likely done for the season for TCU, recurring knee injury. 

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

That sucks for TCU but they've still got some sharp shooters

[spystud13 2,371]

Desmond Bane is fun to watch, saw them twice in person in non-con. 

[Machinator 32,097]

 

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

Lol. Of course they are

[Jhawk 1,075]

Wow. That would be huge. NCAA said last week that KU hadn’t even asked for his reinstatement yet. 

[El Diablo 4,232]

2 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Wow. That would be huge. NCAA said last week that KU hadn’t even asked for his reinstatement yet. 

Reinstate? Is he ineligible?

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

Bought and paid for!

[76Jayhawk 44]

8 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Bought and paid for!

Meh, SDS guardian allegedly took 2500 dollars but there is no evidence of it, just heresay and its clear Silvio had no idea. Let's just say there was 2500 exchanged between the adidas dude and his guardian, past infringements like this required some time to sit out and Silvio has already sat out for a full semester.

 

Not even required to, Coach Self just didn't want to risk playing him.

[El Diablo 4,232]

Stories I read say as much as 80K may have been paid to the "guardian". That'll buy a lot of tennis shoes. First sold his services to UA/Maryland and then to Adidas with KU being the beneficiary of the Adidas transaction.

How do you request reinstatement for a player who was not declared ineligible? 

[VolenteHawk 495]

4 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

Stories I read say as much as 80K may have been paid to the "guardian". That'll buy a lot of tennis shoes. First sold his services to UA/Maryland and then to Adidas with KU being the beneficiary of the Adidas transaction.

How do you request reinstatement for a player who was not declared ineligible? 

If KU found evidence (or the guardian admitted) the $2500, KU would self report to the NCAA which would require reinstatement. The NCAA’s guidance for such a violation is 30% of games, hence the request for immediate reinstatement.

If they found evidence of higher rumored payments, which would admittedly be hard to find since it was Under Armor, they’d keep “gathering information” until De Sousa got Billy Prestoned.

 

[El Diablo 4,232]

3 minutes ago, VolenteHawk said:

If KU found evidence (or the guardian admitted) the $2500, KU would self report to the NCAA which would require reinstatement. The NCAA’s guidance for such a violation is 30% of games, hence the request for immediate reinstatement.

If they found evidence of higher rumored payments, which would admittedly be hard to find since it was Under Armor, they’d keep “gathering information” until De Sousa got Billy Prestoned.

 

So, again, is the player ineligible? Without knowing if KU reported it appears that the school is going about this backwards, which to say the least, is odd.

I just read thru the tweets/conversation from the post above and have no clue, as usual. But some seem to think that if KU has self-reported and the player IS ineligible then previous games played come into question along with a streak of BXII championships.

Does that sound right?

[VolenteHawk 495]

9 minutes ago, El Diablo said:

So, again, is the player ineligible? Without knowing if KU reported it appears that the school is going about this backwards, which to say the least, is odd.

I just read thru the tweets/conversation from the post above and have no clue, as usual. But some seem to think that if KU has self-reported and the player IS ineligible then previous games played come into question along with a streak of BXII championships.

Does that sound right?

KU always goes about it backwards, because Self is conservative about such things. He could be playing De Sousa (and Preston last year) in the same way Arizona played Ayton, but he just doesn’t do it that way. If KU is asking for reinstatement, I’d guess it’s most likely that they believe he’s ineligible due to some evidence of the $2500 but don’t have evidence of anything beyond that...so they’re arguing he’s served his time.

Retroactively vacating games if the school cooperates and (appears that they) didn’t know is usually not what they do. I doubt KU would even be engaging the NCAA on this if they thought that was a possible outcome OR if there was evidence of a large UA/Adidas payment.

Much of this is murky tea-leaf reading, since nobody comments publicly on the details of these things. 

Edited January 15, 2019 by VolenteHawk

[El Diablo 4,232]

It sounds to me then that KU is fairly confident about what will be the final determination on any investigation and just wants to put the outcome with the NCAA on fast track. Kinda like with lawyers not asking questions they don't already know the answers for. 

[Jhawk 1,075]

The weird thing about the NCAA is that it is on the school to declare a kid ineligible after they get initial clearance. Schools do this (or don’t) because they might (or might not) be afraid that the NCAA might find something out and punish the school. With the fbi trial Ku didn’t take chances. We aren’t worried about the past games because the ncaa has already cleared him. The only money that the trial actually produced proof that was paid was $2500 ($20k was never paid though it was supposed to be and the $60k was rumored but never proven). So KU is declaring SDS ineligible and asking for an immediate reinstatement based on him sitting out a semester. 

I’m not sure what to think of this. It is either desperation or we have a solid case showing that nothing more than $2500 was taken. Given that the NCAA said they won’t rule on any of the FBI stuff until after the season I can’t imagine this goes anywhere really. This is the first time KU has really challenged the NCAA, which is very much to the delight of KU fans because we believe that our staff walks on eggshells around the NCAA while other blue bloods say “fuck you come and get me”. 

Should be interesting. 

[Al_4_ISU 12,408]

If De Souza played for Iowa State, we'd get the death penalty for just associating with him.  The double standard of the NCAA is just absurd.

Perhaps you guys may remember when we had a player get suspended for a semester because he was from Prague, and his host family in Nevada let him drive a shitbox Honda Accord to campus?  Or perhaps the time we had a player from Germany who played with a guy, on a team in Germany, who took money.  The NCAA ruled that because that 1 player took money, it was a professional team, and anyone who played on it was a professional basketball player.  He had to sit out a year.

Shit like this is why I hate KU, and the NCAA.  I guess it's not KU's fault the NCAA lets them do whatever the fuck they want.

[El Diablo 4,232]

1 hour ago, Jhawk said:

The weird thing about the NCAA is that it is on the school to declare a kid ineligible after they get initial clearance. Schools do this (or don’t) because they might (or might not) be afraid that the NCAA might find something out and punish the school. With the fbi trial Ku didn’t take chances. We aren’t worried about the past games because the ncaa has already cleared him. The only money that the trial actually produced proof that was paid was $2500 ($20k was never paid though it was supposed to be and the $60k was rumored but never proven). So KU is declaring SDS ineligible and asking for an immediate reinstatement based on him sitting out a semester. 

I’m not sure what to think of this. It is either desperation or we have a solid case showing that nothing more than $2500 was taken. Given that the NCAA said they won’t rule on any of the FBI stuff until after the season I can’t imagine this goes anywhere really. This is the first time KU has really challenged the NCAA, which is very much to the delight of KU fans because we believe that our staff walks on eggshells around the NCAA while other blue bloods say “fuck you come and get me”. 

Should be interesting. 

If your school has declared him ineligible why does nobody seem to know that?

[Jhawk 1,075]

We haven’t declared him ineligible up until this point. We were hoping the NCAA would just make a broad statement in favor of the “victims” which the FBI said KU was. That didn’t happen. Now we are declaring him ineligible and asking for him the be reinstated since the NCAA said they won’t make broad statements until after the season. Basically, we are trying to for the NCAA’s hand to give us clarity. 

[spystud13 2,371]

WV at TCU on ESPNU now. 

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

TCU going in dry

[Pancho 44,358]

tcu up by 30 on the yokels

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

TCU can really put up some points if the other team's coach doesn't bother telling his players to defend the perimeter

[76Jayhawk 44]

22 hours ago, El Diablo said:

So, again, is the player ineligible? Without knowing if KU reported it appears that the school is going about this backwards, which to say the least, is odd.

I just read thru the tweets/conversation from the post above and have no clue, as usual. But some seem to think that if KU has self-reported and the player IS ineligible then previous games played come into question along with a streak of BXII championships.

Does that sound right?

No, Silvio is not ineligible, Self just don't want to play him just in case. Thats why he is asking the NCAA for a ruling one way or another.

[76Jayhawk 44]

God damn TCU.

[Al_4_ISU 12,408]

Tech is going to skull fuck us tonight.

Actually, it feels like the kind of game where we play pretty close, have the opportunity to win but either choke on free throws/open shots, or some egregious call at a critical juncture goes the other team's way.  Probably both, the way the last few have gone.  Either way, we'll demonstrate that we're talented enough to win, but won't.

[Guest]

Yeah...I remember allof those times Tech smoked the Cyclones... NOT.

[Al_4_ISU 12,408]

25 minutes ago, slorch said:

Yeah...I remember allof those times Tech smoked the Cyclones... NOT.

And I remember all the times we lost to bad Raider squads in Lubbock with good ISU squads.  Forgive me if I lack confidence in our ability to beat a really good Tech squad there.

I think we have similar aggregate talent, but Tech is a better team.  Beard is probably a better coach than Prohm (I still think Prohm is a pretty good coach and am pleased overall with him).  Tech is far more mentally tough than we are, too.

[Uncle Nate 2,097]

54 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

And I remember all the times we lost to bad Raider squads in Lubbock with good ISU squads.  Forgive me if I lack confidence in our ability to beat a really good Tech squad there.

I think we have similar aggregate talent, but Tech is a better team.  Beard is probably a better coach than Prohm (I still think Prohm is a pretty good coach and am pleased overall with him).  Tech is far more mentally tough than we are, too.

I think ISU may have a little more talent on the offensive side.  Tech desperately, desperately needs a PG who can direct the offense and score.  Hell, we just need a PG at this point.

I keep hoping we will see the stud freshmen play...but the longer into the season we go, the less likely that appears.

[Al_4_ISU 12,408]

1 minute ago, Uncle Nate said:

I think ISU may have a little more talent on the offensive side.  Tech desperately, desperately needs a PG who can direct the offense and score.  Hell, we just need a PG at this point.

I keep hoping we will see the stud freshmen play...but the longer into the season we go, the less likely that appears.

I wouldn't disagree.  But I think Tech's defense is enough to wash that out.

We have struggled mightily with teams that can force us into that slowdown tempo.  Baylor and KSU both did that very effectively, and I see no reason for that trend to end on the road against a team that's considerably better than the aforementioned squads.

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

Good stuff, Frogs

[Guest]

Iowa State owns a 19-13 advantage alltime vs Tech in Men’s basketball.

Other interesting factoid:  Accordingto Wiki, Iowa State currently has a winning streak against no other Big XII team.  That seems damned near impossible. 

[Jhawk 1,075]

5 hours ago, 76Jayhawk said:

No, Silvio is not ineligible, Self just don't want to play him just in case. Thats why he is asking the NCAA for a ruling one way or another.

Went through the Seth Davis stuff last night.  It sounds like the NCAA and KU have been working hand in hand to get the facts to "an agreeable conclusion" and if they can agree on the facts then KU will declare him ineligible and ask for reinstatement.  If they did ask for reinstatement then that means KU has a pretty clear picture of what any penalties might be in his case and KU is comfortable with them.  That is extremely good if it is the case.  With Preston, we never even asked for his reinstatement because we never got to the point of having a clear investigation working with the NCAA.  Which tells you all you need to know about how dead to rights he must have been with the adidas thing.

[Uncle Nate 2,097]

9 minutes ago, slorch said:

Iowa State owns a 19-13 advantage alltime vs Tech in Men’s basketball.

Other interesting factoid:  Accordingto Wiki, Iowa State currently has a winning streak against no other Big XII team.  That seems damned near impossible. 

Not true.  Just a quick glance at last year's end of the season and this year, including the Big XII tournament, Iowa State has a 3 game winning streak over OSU alone.  I haven't looked at their streaks against other schools beyond that.  Or maybe I am not understanding how you are defining a streak?  Do you mean a winning record over another Big XII team other than Tech?

Edited January 16, 2019 by Uncle Nate

[Jhawk 1,075]

3 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

And I remember all the times we lost to bad Raider squads in Lubbock with good ISU squads.  Forgive me if I lack confidence in our ability to beat a really good Tech squad there.

I think we have similar aggregate talent, but Tech is a better team.  Beard is probably a better coach than Prohm (I still think Prohm is a pretty good coach and am pleased overall with him).  Tech is far more mentally tough than we are, too.

Since I think the league is evolving and we're learning more about each team during the tough times, I'll pose the question...

What does everyone think the pecking order of coaching talent is over the last 2 years in the league?  Mine first:

1. Self

2. Beard

3. Huggy

4. Kruger

5. Prohm

6. Dixon

7. Boynton

8. Weber

9. Drew

10. Shaka

I think that 1 & 2 are pretty close.  I think that 3-4 are a step or two back but very close.  I think 5-7 are all very close and better coaches than the average of coaches in other leagues.  I think 8-10 just don't bring anything to the table even though they have had some success given their shortcomings (and their school's shortcomings).

[Uncle Nate 2,097]

4 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

Since I think the league is evolving and we're learning more about each team during the tough times, I'll pose the question...

What does everyone think the pecking order of coaching talent is over the last 2 years in the league?  Mine first:

1. Self

2. Beard

3. Huggy

4. Kruger

5. Prohm

6. Dixon

7. Boynton

8. Weber

9. Drew

10. Shaka

I think that 1 & 2 are pretty close.  I think that 3-4 are a step or two back but very close.  I think 5-7 are all very close and better coaches than the average of coaches in other leagues.  I think 8-10 just don't bring anything to the table even though they have had some success given their shortcomings (and their school's shortcomings).

Kruger is an enigma for me.  Last year it's like he just sat back and let Young do whatever Young wanted to do, and as a result it wasn't very good team ball.  I feel like a better coach would have been able to utilize Young's talent without sacrificing better overall team play.

[Al_4_ISU 12,408]

I honestly don't think there's a bad coach in the league.  I've shit on Bruce Weber for years, but the squeaky bastard kinda keeps proving me wrong.

Boynton hasn't proven a ton, but you have to be impressed with last season.  Jury's out on him for another couple of years.

Shaka has been a flop at UT, but it's not like he got lucky during his time at VCU either.

I hate Scott Drew, but what his tenure at Baylor is pretty fucking impressive.

[Machinator 32,097]

 

[perfectchaos007 6,593]

 Must’ve been pretty serious for that many players to get kicked off the team 

[El Diablo 4,232]

51 minutes ago, perfectchaos007 said:

 Must’ve been pretty serious for that many players to get kicked off the team 

I was going to guess losing to Baylor in Stillwater this last week but they've done that for the last 4 years. 😝

For realz tho, that's messed up if they got dismissed, had to be serious.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Uncle Nate said:

Not true.  Just a quick glance at last year's end of the season and this year, including the Big XII tournament, Iowa State has a 3 game winning streak over OSU alone.  I haven't looked at their streaks against other schools beyond that.  Or maybe I am not understanding how you are defining a streak?  Do you mean a winning record over another Big XII team other than Tech?

 No your first thought was correct. For each big 12 opponent It lists the series record and then as a column for current streak. They were all listed as losing one or more games, from the ISU perspective. 

Edited January 16, 2019 by slorch

[Underdog 28,437]

OU has wagon wheels on their court?  Cute. 

[Guest]

Current Big 12 Opponents

Iowa State vs.	Overall Record	in Ames	at Opponent's Venue	at Neutral Site	Last 5 Meetings	Last 10 Meetings	Current Streak	Since Beginning of Big 12
Baylor	ISU, 19–16	ISU, 14–2	BU, 13–2	ISU, 3–1	BU, 4–1	BU, 6–4	L 1	ISU, 18–15
Kansas	KU, 181–64	KU, 70–39	KU, 93–16	KU, 18–9	ISU, 3–2	tied, 5–5	L 2	KU, 36–14
Kansas State	KSU, 139–87	ISU, 53–51	KSU, 81–23	ISU, 10–7	ISU, 4–1	ISU, 7–3	L 2	ISU, 25–23
Oklahoma	OU, 116–88	ISU, 52–37	OU, 65–24	OU, 14–12	ISU, 3–2	ISU, 6–4	L 2	OU, 18–16
Oklahoma State	OSU, 65–63	ISU, 39–15	OSU, 38–17	OSU, 12–7	ISU, 3–2	ISU, 8–2	L 2	TIED, 17–17
Texas	UT, 22–16	ISU, 11–5	UT, 14–2	TIED, 3–3	ISU, 3–2	ISU, 6–4	L 3	UT, 20–12
TCU	ISU, 11–8	ISU, 6–2	TIED, 4–4	TCU, 2–1	ISU, 4–1	ISU, 9–1	L 2	ISU, 10–3
Texas Tech	ISU, 19–13	ISU, 13–3	TTU, 9–5	tied, 1–1	ISU, 3–2	ISU, 6–4	L 1	ISU, 15–13
West Virginia	ISU, 7–6	ISU, 4–2	TIED, 3–3	ISU, 1–0	WVU, 4–1	tied, 5–5	L 1	ISU, 7–6

[ClubWhatever 12,085]

5 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Since I think the league is evolving and we're learning more about each team during the tough times, I'll pose the question...

What does everyone think the pecking order of coaching talent is over the last 2 years in the league?  Mine first:

1. Self

2. Beard

3. Huggy

4. Kruger

5. Prohm

6. Dixon

7. Boynton

8. Weber

9. Drew

10. Shaka

I think that 1 & 2 are pretty close.  I think that 3-4 are a step or two back but very close.  I think 5-7 are all very close and better coaches than the average of coaches in other leagues.  I think 8-10 just don't bring anything to the table even though they have had some success given their shortcomings (and their school's shortcomings).

I like your list.  It’s a distinction without a difference but I think Weber is actually a good coach and I would swap him and Boynton.  

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

There is no chance Manek hasn't smoked at least some meth

[Underdog 28,437]

I’d put Kruger @2, he’s won everywhere he’s been.  

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

Also why do people think pube staches like that look good? If you can't grow a full mustache just fucking shave

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

KSU is hard to figure out...at times they look like total shit and at other times they look as good as they did in their elite eight run

[George Clooney 378]

13 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Also why do people think pube staches like that look good? If you can't grow a full mustache just fucking shave

There probably isn't anyone being honest with him. All he needs is a friend/teammate/girl to tell him it doesn't look good and it'll be gone within an hour.

[Brian Fantana 6,654]

Looking to be a good one in Lubbock