2018-19 Big 12 Basketball Thread

[El Diablo 4,232]

Baylor hosts Oregon tonight at 6. I don't see this team being .500 this year. A few good pieces but just not a good team overall.

[Jhawk 1,075]

Is drew going back to zone?  What is the deal with his talent drop off?  It seemed that he couldn't miss on a guy for a while and 2 years ago he lost the last guard that could carry a team and they look completely lost.... Like 4 years away, complete rebuild lost.

**I just looked, Drew has only had less than 6 losses in conference once in 15 years.  He's be .500 or worse in conference 10 times.  That's pretty shocking given his winning percentage (.607).

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

Don't they also have a couple of injuries this year in addition to a lot of losses to graduation from last year's team. They're actually performing better than I thought they would this year.  

[pigmeat markham 135]

21 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Tech is the second best team in the big12 and they could easily sweep KU and win it. 

From Coach K:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CollieronTV/status/1075994065483771904?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1075994065483771904&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftexastech.forums.rivals.com%2Fthreads%2Fsiap-coach-k-had-some-high-praise-for-our-guys-post-game.117948%2F

Edited December 21, 2018 by pigmeat markham

[pigmeat markham 135]

1 minute ago, pigmeat markham said:

From Coach K about TT:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CollieronTV/status/1075994065483771904?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1075994065483771904&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftexastech.forums.rivals.com%2Fthreads%2Fsiap-coach-k-had-some-high-praise-for-our-guys-post-game.117948%2F

 

[El Diablo 4,232]

3 hours ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Don't they also have a couple of injuries this year in addition to a lot of losses to graduation from last year's team. They're actually performing better than I thought they would this year.  

The transfer PG from Yale has had foot injuries for much of his college career and still isn't 100%. He put up 31 points on Baylor a couple years back when Yale won their first ever tournament game. 

Baylor is up 23-12 under 2 to play 1st half, Oregon has the son of Manute Bol on their team. Pregame hype said he's possibly a lottery pick.

[El Diablo 4,232]

9 hours ago, Jhawk said:

Is drew going back to zone?  What is the deal with his talent drop off?  It seemed that he couldn't miss on a guy for a while and 2 years ago he lost the last guard that could carry a team and they look completely lost.... Like 4 years away, complete rebuild lost.

**I just looked, Drew has only had less than 6 losses in conference once in 15 years.  He's be .500 or worse in conference 10 times.  That's pretty shocking given his winning percentage (.607).

It is crazy. I think a lot of his record is a result of the first few years when the team was full of walk-ons and one season where they played only conference teams due to NCAA punishment. Somehow though he's managed to get his teams ranked every year for the lat ten years which puts him in company with only a handful of others - Bill Self, John Calipari, Tom Izzo, Roy Williams, Jim Boeheim, Rick Pitino, Coach K, Shawn Miller. Might be a couple more. Not bad.

[kopp0e 1,135]

 

[Jhawk 1,075]

1 hour ago, El Diablo said:

It is crazy. I think a lot of his record is a result of the first few years when the team was full of walk-ons and one season where they played only conference teams due to NCAA punishment. Somehow though he's managed to get his teams ranked every year for the lat ten years which puts him in company with only a handful of others - Bill Self, John Calipari, Tom Izzo, Roy Williams, Jim Boeheim, Rick Pitino, Coach K, Shawn Miller. Might be a couple more. Not bad.

It would be interesting to hear what Baylor fans think of his lack of big stage success and conference record. I figured he might have a warm seat this year but maybe they’re content with him. 

[SimonBolivar 10,910]

7 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

It would be interesting to hear what Baylor fans think of his lack of big stage success and conference record. I figured he might have a warm seat this year but maybe they’re content with him. 

Lol as far as I'm concerned it's his for life. 7 straight years of NIT/NCAA,  10 out of 11 years NIT/NCAA, 2 Elight Eights, 4 Sweet 16's. Now that's not amazing at some schools, but this is Baylor where the last pre-Drew NCAA birth was 1988.

[El Diablo 4,232]

2 minutes ago, Jhawk said:

It would be interesting to hear what Baylor fans think of his lack of big stage success and conference record. I figured he might have a warm seat this year but maybe they’re content with him. 

In a football conference in a football state? I don't know that there's enough people who matter who have terribly high expectations. A friend of mine is a bball alum, played in the early 70's with some guys that are now pretty big boosters. They're all still very tight and he's never said a word about them being unhappy. 

I'd say for the casual fan he's exceeded anything that the program had done prior to his arrival and that's enough. Most schools would kill to be ranked every year, much less a couple of deep runs. 

[ocugolf 1,210]

OU got pounded by the only good team they have played this year, but the have some pretty decent resume building wins. Florida and Dayton in the Bahamas. Creighton, Wichita State in OKC, Notre Dame in NYC, USC in Tulsa. At Northwestern. None of those are great wins by any stretch, but they must be better than they were pegged to be preseason. 

[chase25 2,048]

On 12/6/2018 at 10:31 PM, chase25 said:

I am sending out an SOS to the rest of the Big 12, please don't take any games for the rest of the conference, just beat Shaka and put us out of our misery.

Signed, battered Texas basketball fan.

Please, do us a solid, we need y'all's help

[ChiTownDoc 21,097]

35 minutes ago, ocugolf said:

OU got pounded by the only good team they have played this year, but the have some pretty decent resume building wins. Florida and Dayton in the Bahamas. Creighton, Wichita State in OKC, Notre Dame in NYC, USC in Tulsa. At Northwestern. None of those are great wins by any stretch, but they must be better than they were pegged to be preseason. 

I don't know.  A few of those teams are good.  None great...OU will certainly make the tourney and will be in the top 25 next week.  That's pretty good for a team picked to finish dead last by many XII pundits.  

[Guest]

14 hours ago, pigmeat markham said:

From Coach K:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CollieronTV/status/1075994065483771904?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1075994065483771904&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftexastech.forums.rivals.com%2Fthreads%2Fsiap-coach-k-had-some-high-praise-for-our-guys-post-game.117948%2F

Couldn’t agree more with Coach K in saying Culver is playing without a PG.  same thing happened last year when Evans was out.   It was ‘stand around and watch Zhaire and Culver create.’

Beard’s got his work cut out for him  on the offensive end.

Disagree with Mikey Ratface that Tech is just all 22-23year olds and Duke is young because they replace everyone.  Zhaire Smith was a huge one and done.  Culver is a you g mofo, too as a very young Sophomore.  I don’t have much patience for the ‘woe is us’ bullshit by bigtime coaches.  You have 5 All Americans out of your 12 dudes.  I think you’ll somehow make due...

[DeadArmadillo 907]

8 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

I don't know.  A few of those teams are good.  None great...OU will certainly make the tourney and will be in the top 25 next week.  That's pretty good for a team picked to finish dead last by many XII pundits.  

I was also wondering why OU wasn't ranked.  I checked out their season last night, after they won a road game against Northwestern, and I saw the 20 point loss to a really good, but not great Wisconsin team.  Other than that, they've been pretty solid.  11-1, top 25 in KenPom and Sagarin, okay SOS.  All of it says lower end of the Top 25 for sure.  And I also checked on the differences between last year's team and this year's, because they went from about the 45th best team to about the 22nd best team.  They are pretty much the same team except that they're missing that one guy.  I think the perception is that if you lose your leading scorer, you will not be as good.  So I guess most voters in the Big 12 polls, most moved them from 6th in the conference down to 9th or 10th.  But just like the Hawks, OU was a worse team with him than without him.  

I always wondered how good Tech would have been if he followed his parent's wishes and signed with Tech.  Would they have been a better team than the one that went to the Elite 8?  Because he was a Top 5 draft pick and surely that's the kind of player that make your team better, right?  But his defense last season was atrocious.  Not bad, but horrible.  I don't know if Beard would have been tolerant of that.  And he set the NCAA record for turnovers in a season with a few games to play.  I'm not saying he would have been a bench warmer for Beard, but I'm sure he wouldn't have displaced Keenan Evans and that he wouldn't have been jacking up 30 shots a game. 

Did Kruger get him to sign by promising that he would start from Day One and be the focus of the offense and say to hell with team results?  One and dones help your program as a recruiting selling point even if they don't help produce on the court wins

I also found an interesting stat on ESPN's site.  It's called Real Plus-Minus (RPM)  I don't know how good it is at measuring a player's worth, but Harden, George, Anthony Davis, Jokic, and Irving are the top five.  Trae Young is number 456 of 457 players listed.  I have been convinced that his liability as a defensive player hurts his team more anyone will admit

[Dirk X West 772]

4 hours ago, slorch said:

Disagree with Mikey Ratface that Tech is just all 22-23year olds and Duke is young because they replace everyone.  Zhaire Smith was a huge one and done.  Culver is a you g mofo, too as a very young Sophomore.  I don’t have much patience for the ‘woe is us’ bullshit by bigtime coaches.  You have 5 All Americans out of your 12 dudes.  I think you’ll somehow make due...

Yeah, I don't know if it's just the perception driven world of college basketball (and football too, of course) where these guys like Self, Calipari and K always, always have to make excuses any time a non-blue blood gives them a game.  Even when they compliment the other team, there's some excuses or backhanded swipes embedded in that ostensibly even handed praise for the team they just played.

[Buddy Hinton 103]

4 hours ago, DeadArmadillo said:

I was also wondering why OU wasn't ranked.  I checked out their season last night, after they won a road game against Northwestern, and I saw the 20 point loss to a really good, but not great Wisconsin team.  Other than that, they've been pretty solid.  11-1, top 25 in KenPom and Sagarin, okay SOS.  All of it says lower end of the Top 25 for sure.  And I also checked on the differences between last year's team and this year's, because they went from about the 45th best team to about the 22nd best team.  They are pretty much the same team except that they're missing that one guy.  I think the perception is that if you lose your leading scorer, you will not be as good.  So I guess most voters in the Big 12 polls, most moved them from 6th in the conference down to 9th or 10th.  But just like the Hawks, OU was a worse team with him than without him.  

I always wondered how good Tech would have been if he followed his parent's wishes and signed with Tech.  Would they have been a better team than the one that went to the Elite 8?  Because he was a Top 5 draft pick and surely that's the kind of player that make your team better, right?  But his defense last season was atrocious.  Not bad, but horrible.  I don't know if Beard would have been tolerant of that.  And he set the NCAA record for turnovers in a season with a few games to play.  I'm not saying he would have been a bench warmer for Beard, but I'm sure he wouldn't have displaced Keenan Evans and that he wouldn't have been jacking up 30 shots a game. 

Did Kruger get him to sign by promising that he would start from Day One and be the focus of the offense and say to hell with team results?  One and dones help your program as a recruiting selling point even if they don't help produce on the court wins

I also found an interesting stat on ESPN's site.  It's called Real Plus-Minus (RPM)  I don't know how good it is at measuring a player's worth, but Harden, George, Anthony Davis, Jokic, and Irving are the top five.  Trae Young is number 456 of 457 players listed.  I have been convinced that his liability as a defensive player hurts his team more anyone will admit

Just few thoughts.

OU is probably is a solid 20-40 team in the country. As pointed out, the victories look better on name alone than actual on court accomplishments.

This is not the same team minus Trae Young. OU brought in 2 grad transfers and freshman (Calixte, Reynolds, and Bieniemy) that are playing significant minutes, with Trae Young, Kam McGusty & Jordan Shepard leaving the program. This team has been much better defensively

I have never heard anything about Trae Young's parent's wishes being Tech. Tech was only ever brought up to show respect for his dad. He signed with OU because mom wanted him at OU & close to home. Dad wanted him at Kansas (really Kentucky). You don't turn down a talent like that.

[Jhawk 1,075]

I didn’t take any of that as a slight. I took it as he was commenting on how seniority can mitigate great talent. Of course his team won the game so he wants to give his guys some credit to though. 

Given K almost never is that candid with his after game remarks on the opposing team I don’t know how any of that could be back handed. 

[Guest]

Yeah, I took Coach K's comment on the age/ experience more as a "whine' about the system.  One in which he has almost every advantage.  I was just illustrating with Smith and Culver that he ain't the only one with yutes.

 

I thought he was super complementary towards Tech.

Edited December 22, 2018 by slorch

[Catdaddyhorn 3,444]

6 hours ago, DeadArmadillo said:

I was also wondering why OU wasn't ranked.  I checked out their season last night, after they won a road game against Northwestern, and I saw the 20 point loss to a really good, but not great Wisconsin team.  Other than that, they've been pretty solid.  11-1, top 25 in KenPom and Sagarin, okay SOS.  All of it says lower end of the Top 25 for sure.  And I also checked on the differences between last year's team and this year's, because they went from about the 45th best team to about the 22nd best team.  They are pretty much the same team except that they're missing that one guy.  I think the perception is that if you lose your leading scorer, you will not be as good.  So I guess most voters in the Big 12 polls, most moved them from 6th in the conference down to 9th or 10th.  But just like the Hawks, OU was a worse team with him than without him.  

I always wondered how good Tech would have been if he followed his parent's wishes and signed with Tech.  Would they have been a better team than the one that went to the Elite 8?  Because he was a Top 5 draft pick and surely that's the kind of player that make your team better, right?  But his defense last season was atrocious.  Not bad, but horrible.  I don't know if Beard would have been tolerant of that.  And he set the NCAA record for turnovers in a season with a few games to play.  I'm not saying he would have been a bench warmer for Beard, but I'm sure he wouldn't have displaced Keenan Evans and that he wouldn't have been jacking up 30 shots a game. 

Did Kruger get him to sign by promising that he would start from Day One and be the focus of the offense and say to hell with team results?  One and dones help your program as a recruiting selling point even if they don't help produce on the court wins

I also found an interesting stat on ESPN's site.  It's called Real Plus-Minus (RPM)  I don't know how good it is at measuring a player's worth, but Harden, George, Anthony Davis, Jokic, and Irving are the top five.  Trae Young is number 456 of 457 players listed.  I have been convinced that his liability as a defensive player hurts his team more anyone will admit

Nobody predicted Young would be a one and done. In fact if it weren’t for his ridiculous start to last season and the hype associated with it he definitely wouldn’t have been a one and done. He wasn’t even a top 20 recruit according to composite rankings.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Catdaddyhorn

[Brian Fantana 6,667]

I appreciated Coach K's remarks, he is a class act.

[Brian Fantana 6,667]

Man, KU gets a lot of favorable calls.

[Brian Fantana 6,667]

I honestly think KU looks better without Azubuike on the court. Also I wish whoever the color guy is would shut the fuck up.

[spystud13 2,371]

You’re not familiar with Walton? 

[Brian Fantana 6,667]

1 minute ago, spystud13 said:

You’re not familiar with Walton? 

Damn I must be more tired than I thought not to recognize that voice.

[El Diablo 4,232]

I like Walton most of the time. No filter.

[spystud13 2,371]

There’s ASU first lead with 2 left. 

[spystud13 2,371]

Strong shooting there. 

[Brian Fantana 6,667]

13 missed FTs? Ouch

[spystud13 2,371]

Tough pull-up J there. 

[Brian Fantana 6,667]

Well that was fucking stupid, Vick.

[spystud13 2,371]

Damn, traveled with the gimme 2. 

[satyanash 14,280]

Kansas would never be hit with that call. Never.

[spystud13 2,371]

That was a pretty fucking terrible offensive possession. 

[satyanash 14,280]

Make your damn FTs, Arizona State...

[Brian Fantana 6,667]

Great comeback by ASU, well deserved. 

[El Diablo 4,232]

Down goes KU. Hate Hurley but he's got a good team.

[Upgrayedd 5,804]

Wheeeeeeeeee

[VolenteHawk 495]

13 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

Man, KU gets a lot of favorable calls.

That seems a very weird game to beat the KU Gets All The Calls drum.

[Brian Fantana 6,667]

Well the calls started going in ASU's favor after I said that so maybe I jinxed it.

[El Diablo 4,232]

Baylor will play the New Orleans Privateers at the Feral Sinner today, 5pm tipoff. Should be a packed house for this one.

[Goo Punch 4,275]

KenPom has TTU going 13-3 with road losses to KU, TCU, and ISU.

[VolenteHawk 495]

44 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

KenPom has TTU going 13-3 with road losses to KU, TCU, and ISU.

12-6 is what I see his projection at.

 

 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

8 minutes ago, VolenteHawk said:

12-6 is what I see his projection at.

 

 

That was before the season, Their updated projections only have the three road losses now.

*also I should have said 15-3.

double edit: the computer also has KU losing only to TTU and UK from here on out, with the road game as ISU as a virtual toss up.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Goo Punch

[VolenteHawk 495]

On 12/29/2018 at 2:39 PM, Goo Punch said:

That was before the season, Their updated projections only have the three road losses now.

*also I should have said 15-3.

double edit: the computer also has KU losing only to TTU and UK from here on out, with the road game as ISU as a virtual toss up.

I think we’re talking about different things, because his model still has TTU projected at 12-6. That’s a calculation based on all the win probabilities and not simply adding up losses for games where they’re less than 50% to win. KU currently projected at 13-5 even with only one predicted specific game loss.

That sounds pretty accurate to me...I think 13 wins gets the league title outright, so that’s probably what the race is to.

 

[Jhawk 1,075]

On 12/31/2018 at 9:05 AM, VolenteHawk said:

I think we’re talking about different things, because his model still has TTU projected at 12-6. That’s a calculation based on all the win probabilities and not simply adding up losses for games where they’re less than 50% to win. KU currently projected at 13-5 even with only one predicted specific game loss.

That sounds pretty accurate to me...I think 13 wins gets the league title outright, so that’s probably what the race is to.

 

At first I thought you were insane with the 13 win prediction and then I went back and checked.  Since 2010-2011 only 3 teams not named KU have reached 13 wins.  Since going to the 18 game schedule only KSU has gotten to 14 wins and that was in the inaugural season of that schedule (2012-2013).  Shocking because I feel like KU always has around 3 losses and it is always close up to the last couple of games.

With this conference, I can see all of the teams beating up on each other and no one getting any good separation.

[76Jayhawk 44]

3 hours ago, Jhawk said:

At first I thought you were insane with the 13 win prediction and then I went back and checked.  Since 2010-2011 only 3 teams not named KU have reached 13 wins.  Since going to the 18 game schedule only KSU has gotten to 14 wins and that was in the inaugural season of that schedule (2012-2013).  Shocking because I feel like KU always has around 3 losses and it is always close up to the last couple of games.

 With this conference, I can see all of the teams beating up on each other and no one getting any good separation.

4 teams.

Missouri (14-4) 2012

KSU (14-4) and OSU (13-5) in 2013

WVU (13-5) in 2016

[Brian Fantana 6,667]

Lid on the basket early for Tech, not a great start to conference play

[Jhawk 1,075]

4 hours ago, 76Jayhawk said:

4 teams.

Missouri (14-4) 2012

KSU (14-4) and OSU (13-5) in 2013

WVU (13-5) in 2016

Only 3 since  the 18 game schedule. Missouri leaving created the 18 game schedule.