CR Pittsburgh Synagogue Shooting

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

You keep claiming that and yet your complaints are almost entirely about the hive mentality that you view coming from the left side of the proverbial aisle. I don't recall ever seeing you complain about the spam and attacks coming from the right on shaggy. You have a nostalgic view of the past that doesn't match reality, and the only difference is the side of the aisle that more of the crap is coming from.

Tell me where all the intellectual discussion was in this thread from the same point in the Obama administration:

http://www.shaggytexas.com/board/showthread.php/76134-Election-night-returns-game-thread/page3

There were several prominent garbage right wing posters that persisted out of obstinance and because with the old system it was incredibly difficult to crowdsource ban posters.  Even posters who were almost universally reviled could stick around indefinitely.  If we had the system now in place back then, they likely would have been crowdsourced.  The evidence for this is that this is exactly what happened as soon as we switched to this format.  So there were bad right wing posters and there were many trash threads, but pointing this out has nothing to do with my claims.  There is a relatively new & growing phenomenon that encourages high volumes of spam and content free posting; it is not merely crap shifting sides of the aisle.  

 

51 minutes ago, Bat Guano said:

How do you get through to people when facts, logic, appeals to humanity, and common sense don't work?

Oftentimes there is simply nothing one can do to persuade another.  This has been true throughout history and will be true to the end of time.  What one shouldn't do is abandon basic principles when encountering an unpersuadable person, especially when your concern is that they have abandoned basic principles.  This approach won't work anyway, and it is has the downside of making one a hypocrite (not claiming that is what you are, just commenting on the approach).  

[G650 14216]

14 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

Oftentimes there is simply nothing one can do to persuade another.  This has been true throughout history and will be true to the end of time.  What one shouldn't do is abandon basic principles when encountering an unpersuadable person, especially when your concern is that they have abandoned basic principles.  This approach won't work anyway, and it is has the downside of making one a hypocrite (not claiming that is what you are, just commenting on the approach).  

This is well put.

Edited October 31, 2018 by G650

[Huckleberry 32830]

13 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

There were several prominent garbage right wing posters that persisted out of obstinance and because with the old system it was incredibly difficult to crowdsource ban posters.  Even posters who were almost universally reviled could stick around indefinitely.  If we had the system now in place back then, they likely would have been crowdsourced.  The evidence for this is that this is exactly what happened as soon as we switched to this format.  So there were bad right wing posters and there were many trash threads, but pointing this out has nothing to do with my claims.  There is a relatively new & growing phenomenon that encourages high volumes of spam and content free posting; it is not merely crap shifting sides of the aisle.  

The old system also created a phenomenon that encouraged high volumes of spam and content free posting. That has not changed. In the old system pos rep was worth twice as much as neg rep so the shitty posters would simply make a ton of terrible or short posts and pos rep each other to fend off the neg reps. It wasn't hard because you only needed half as many pos reps to stay alive. That is exactly why it was difficult to crowdsource them.

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Quote

Pence was not the one who invited Jacobs to the event, the vice president’s office said. That was Lena Epstein, a Jewish Republican candidate in the hotly contested race for Michigan’s 11th Congressional District, according to Pence’s staff.

Mike Pence:

imgur

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Dp

 

Edited October 31, 2018 by MaybeACoordinator

[Nivek 16913]

15 hours ago, Aphelion said:

My mistake.  I didn't realize that he had good reasons to wish for the death of children.   

Sorry, I didn't realize you were only capable of verbal diarrhea and crying about being outnumbered on the political spectrum.   

[Nivek 16913]

15 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Do you tell people to die when you get mad? Does saying IC said something bad, its okay that BT says something bad? 

Seems a lot more people are surprised that Brisket got in trouble than Ironclast, its probably cause he didn't say he would kill or hoped for their deaths. I mean Brisket said if Texas left the union he would shoot up people cause they were traitors even if it was legal. Does that mean Ironclast and Brisket are both bad people?

Well, one said he HOPES a person suffers from their actions.  The other WANTS to inflict suffering and promote violence.    

[bolverk 29639]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Mike Pence FChorn:

 

Ahem

 

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

The old system also created a phenomenon that encouraged high volumes of spam and content free posting. That has not changed. In the old system pos rep was worth twice as much as neg rep so the shitty posters would simply make a ton of terrible or short posts and pos rep each other to fend off the neg reps. It wasn't hard because you only needed half as many pos reps to stay alive. That is exactly why it was difficult to crowdsource them.

A particular incentive system might be better than another in some regard and yet encourage other undesirable outcomes and be worse overall.  That is the case here.  I would rather have no score or points based system (I don't have any objection to a system that allows one to write a private & succinct note associated with a post) and think any such public point totaling aspect is silly for adults, but these systems seem to have taken over the internet.  Beyond these systems, the forum has a general cultural problem and any internet nomad, regardless of the normally required affiliations to a place like this, will be welcomed and preferred if they accept & repeat the necessary dogma.  I know, you think I only care because the dominant dogma of this forum doesn't align with my views.  You think this despite the fact that you know I've solicited & value yours and other ideological opponents' feedback on various thoughts.  

Edited October 31, 2018 by Guest

[Huckleberry 32830]

A particular incentive system might be better than another in some regard and yet encourage other undesirable outcomes and be worse overall.  That is the case here.  I would rather have no score or points based system (I don't have any objection to a system that allows one to write a private & succinct note associated with a post) and think any such public point totaling aspect is silly for adults, but these systems seem to have taken over the internet.  Beyond these systems, the forum has a general cultural problem and any internet nomad, regardless of the normally required affiliations to a place like this, will be welcomed and preferred if they accept & repeat the necessary dogma.  I know, you think I only care because the dominant dogma of this forum doesn't align with my views.  You think this despite the fact that you know I've solicited & value yours and other ideological opponents' feedback on various thoughts.  

No, the point is that both systems encourage the exact same undesirable outcome - high volumes of short posts that lack actual thought.

You have solicited thoughts on both boards, both boards exhibited the same behavior, with the difference being that right-wing shit posters weren't outnumbered by left-wing shit posters at the old site. There is a reason that people on surly still refer to "Cloak Room bullshit." It was just as bad.

My conclusion isn't meant to be insightful or a dig at you, rather it is completely obvious. You have spoken up and complained here after never having done so there because of the one difference, which is that you disagree politically with more of the posters here.

[Dahobbs 17515]

In case anyone wanted a text book definition of hypocrisy, these statements were made by the same person in the same thread (not using quotes because multi-quote is broken):

"Oftentimes there is simply nothing one can do to persuade another.  This has been true throughout history and will be true to the end of time.  What one shouldn't do is abandon basic principles when encountering an unpersuadable person, especially when your concern is that they have abandoned basic principles.  This approach won't work anyway, and it is has the downside of making one a hypocrite (not claiming that is what you are, just commenting on the approach). "

"Saint Brisket makes a post wishing and hoping for the violent deaths of the family members of posters here.  Then he realizes that this may appear as the rantings of a hateful lunatic by those who don’t know that he is a righteous man with only pure and pious intentions, so he gives an apology followed by a defense based on his supreme passion for the oppressed; his passion is justified on account of having a Spanish last name and knowing some Hondurans.  Only the most passionate of righteous men would be compelled to wish death on children.  He deserves all of our praise and sympathy as the sole defender of the oppressed."

"Brisket is a clown; he is an adult version of a pre-teen squeaker screeching that he fucked your mom when things don't go his way.  But he is only one poster and really he is just a symptom of a more general problem with the forum and not the cause of it.  This forum is overran with mindless twitter spammers, facebook quality posters, and several dozen interchangeable posters who provide nothing more than facsimiles of a narrow set of political talking points.  In times past these types of posters would not have fared as well among this group, but now they thrive here. There is very little original thought and content worth reading as the good posters who provide content worth reading post less and less.  There are a few things that could be done to address these problems, but none of these things are going to be done so I won't waste time enumerating them."

Pardon me for questioning whether this person is arguing from an intellectually honest position. 

Aphelion, why don't you provide some examples of that reasoned discourse you found so appealing from the old site. Because right now I think all that flowery rhetoric is merely to hide the smell of bullshit. Personally, I've found the conversations on this site far more intellectually rigorous. The lack of solid "conservative" counterpoints is simple: all those of any intelligence and capable of discussion (e.g., Brisket and many others here) abandoned the GOP. Or perhaps it is better to say that the GOP abandoned us and went full nutzo. Everyone left carrying water for it are the irrational, that is the Qanon folks or those terrified of the caravan of crazy brown people with guns assaulting our border.  

[Guest]

I’m not longing for the old board nor claiming that it was perfect or even any good at all .  I think it had many problems to begin with, many of those problems have gotten worse, and now it has new problems.  I don’t fell compelled to defend it because that is not my point.   I participate in several discussion forums online and the same phenomenon has occurred at many of them and it is occurring here as well. It’s making online discussion worse across the board, at forums representing all types of ideological views.  The folks on forums from various ideological views say the same exact types of statements about how they are not a hive mind/there is no echo chamber, there really is no problem and it’s always been this way, only people who are easily offended or are in some way deficient take any issue, etc.  Forums are becoming increasingly narrow, spam is up, content is down, repetition of overt simple minded rhetoric prevails.  But we have fake internet points and dopamine hits for reposts and reshuffling the same talking points, and we get our views reinforced and ponder at the stupid assholes who disagree.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

You really need to change your tampon and deal with it. 

[Bama Chick 28596]

Change the tampon and look into brevity.

Fuck. 10,000 words, multiple times, to say “Old place good, new place bad.”

[softlynow 1811]

Yeah, I’m not reading more than a couple sentences of what amounts to a series of bitchy process stories. Those usually suck from the professional media, unless it’s about some mundane process that’s actually of interest to me. How a self-important pseudo-intellectual interacts when his viewpoint is unpopular is simply not. 

[Celery Man 20923]

17 hours ago, Mole said:

 

1. As terrible as Trump is, he's not as bad as portrayed on the Trump thread. His terribleness isn't dealt with honestly here. Instead, it's a self-perpetuating cycle of rage even over things that don't warrant that rage. That's NOT a defense of Trump. He's terrible and represents an existential crisis for our country, but a lot of the things that thread rages over aren't honest representations of what he's saying or doing.

 

strong disagree, mostly.  it's reasonable for some of the rage at the things he is doing to destroy America to simmer over on to some of the things he does that are simply childish and/or evil.

[Cacti 191]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 9:33 PM, Bama Chick said:

This place would be horrible if everyone posted long winded essays of 5, 000 words when they can get the message across in 1/16th of that.

 

4 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Change the tampon and look into brevity.

Fuck. 10,000 words, multiple times, to say “Old place good, new place bad.”

I think you’re on to something. The first choice one should use to get their point across is a gif—no words at all. But if words are necessary, then for the sake of brevity one should not use more than 280 characters.

[cactusflinthead 27597]

5 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

Change the tampon and look into brevity.

Fuck. 10,000 words, multiple times, to say “Old place good, new place bad.”

the next time aphelion/escriva finds brevity will be the first. he's impervious. it's amazing really.

 

edit: I am not opposed to longcat posts in principle. sometimes you have a lot of territory to cover, but dear God have a fucking point or several that require it. I am as guilty as any of going off on a tangent, but I hope somewhere along the way somebody found something worth reading. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by cactusflinthead

[workswithseed 2079]

Just now, cactusflinthead said:

the next time aphelion/escriva finds brevity will be the first. he's impervious. it's amazing really.

I've actually messaged him, he's definitely not from bama, nor does he say "I can't understand it for you" paraphrasing.

[Anastasis 23447]

28 minutes ago, Cacti said:

The first choice one should use to get their point across is a gif—no words at all.

Do you even fucking [serious] threads bro?

[Anastasis 23447]

Just now, cactusflinthead said:

the next time aphelion/escriva 

[cactusflinthead 27597]

26 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I don't know about that man. he has at least a couple of voices. If I am wrong that's fine, but he has all the earmarks.

[cactusflinthead 27597]

30 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I've actually messaged him, he's definitely not from bama, nor does he say "I can't understand it for you" paraphrasing.

if he isn't that's a pretty good rendition of him. I don't really give a damn one way or the other. he can be whoever he is. he's a long winded human that rarely gets use of all the words he throws at us. 

where the hell am I? were we talking about Don Lemon and white terror? right. About done sock hunting

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

7 hours ago, Aphelion said:

I’m not longing for the old board nor claiming that it was perfect or even any good at all .  I think it had many problems to begin with, many of those problems have gotten worse, and now it has new problems.  I don’t fell compelled to defend it because that is not my point.   I participate in several discussion forums online and the same phenomenon has occurred at many of them and it is occurring here as well. It’s making online discussion worse across the board, at forums representing all types of ideological views.  The folks on forums from various ideological views say the same exact types of statements about how they are not a hive mind/there is no echo chamber, there really is no problem and it’s always been this way, only people who are easily offended or are in some way deficient take any issue, etc.  Forums are becoming increasingly narrow, spam is up, content is down, repetition of overt simple minded rhetoric prevails.  But we have fake internet points and dopamine hits for reposts and reshuffling the same talking points, and we get our views reinforced and ponder at the stupid assholes who disagree.  

Because that's the new reality, dude. Anonymous message boards, Facebook, real life, you name it. 

 

[Anastasis 23447]

 

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

the next time aphelion/escriva finds brevity will be the first. he's impervious. it's amazing really.

 

edit: I am not opposed to longcat posts in principle. sometimes you have a lot of territory to cover, but dear God have a fucking point or several that require it. I am as guilty as any of going off on a tangent, but I hope somewhere along the way somebody found something worth reading. 

The person I'm having a dialogue with understands my points just fine.  Only the interchangeables are having difficulty, but I'm not writing to them.  

[cactusflinthead 27597]

18 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

The person I'm having a dialogue with understands my points just fine.  Only the interchangeables are having difficulty, but I'm not writing to them.  

That's great. Good for you. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

18 hours ago, Aphelion said:

A particular incentive system might be better than another in some regard and yet encourage other undesirable outcomes and be worse overall.  That is the case here.  I would rather have no score or points based system (I don't have any objection to a system that allows one to write a private & succinct note associated with a post) and think any such public point totaling aspect is silly for adults, but these systems seem to have taken over the internet.  Beyond these systems, the forum has a general cultural problem and any internet nomad, regardless of the normally required affiliations to a place like this, will be welcomed and preferred if they accept & repeat the necessary dogma.  I know, you think I only care because the dominant dogma of this forum doesn't align with my views.  You think this despite the fact that you know I've solicited & value yours and other ideological opponents' feedback on various thoughts.  

This forum is just a tree in the forest that is America. America has a cultural problem. That it is reflected here and at other forums you frequent should not surprise you.  The President of the United States communicates primarily through rage tweets, and you think surly is the problem.

 

[Fozzz 152]

On 10/31/2018 at 1:45 AM, Mole said:

That's NOT a defense of Trump. He's terrible and represents an existential crisis for our country, but a lot of the things that thread rages over aren't honest representations of what he's saying or doing.

This seems like rather silly hyperbole.  In what particular ways is Trump, relative to Cruz, Pence, Rubio, or even Hillary and Obama, represent an existential crisis for our country?

[jimmyjazz 45851]

24 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

This seems like rather silly hyperbole.  In what particular ways is Trump, relative to Cruz, Pence, Rubio, or even Hillary and Obama, represent an existential crisis for our country?

Well, the likelihood that he is a conduit for Russian interference in our democracy is a start.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

This forum is just a tree in the forest that is America. America has a cultural problem. That it is reflected here and at other forums you frequent should not surprise you.  The President of the United States communicates primarily through rage tweets, and you think surly is the problem.

 

I'm not surprised; one can expect something and still not like it.  I never said surly is the cause for the general problems of the nation or broader culture.  I think surly has a problem.  A flu outbreak may be the problem, but a person with the flu has a problem.  If I claimed that a person has the flu and this is a problem we should address, it would be silly to respond by saying that I shouldn't be surprised by this because there is a flu epidemic and that this is the problem and not the sick individual.  Just because the president communicates in idiotic and over simplistic rage tweets doesn't mean this should become the accepted standard for us.  If we agree that we don't like this new style of discourse, then let's not participate in it ourselves.  

Edited November 1, 2018 by Guest

[bad_teammate 13184]

40 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

In what particular ways is Trump, relative to Cruz, Pence, Rubio, or even Hillary and Obama, represent an existential crisis for our country?

The core is this: The inflammation of a malignant, violent, anti-democratic core of lunatics.

There is nothing supernatural protecting our experiment, and it can be destroyed like every other experiment before. The only thing keeping it together are some basic shared beliefs about humanity, and eroding those erodes the nation.

I'm not arguing that we should even care about saving the nation as it currently exists, but the threat to our nation is on the inside and Trump inspires the very type of radical lunatics who would destroy our democratic society from the inside.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

19 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The core is this: The inflammation of a malignant, violent, anti-democratic core of lunatics.

There is nothing supernatural protecting our experiment, and it can be destroyed like every other experiment before. The only thing keeping it together are some basic shared beliefs about humanity, and eroding those erodes the nation.

I'm not arguing that we should even care about saving the nation as it currently exists, but the threat to our nation is on the inside and Trump inspires the very type of radical lunatics who would destroy our democratic society from the inside.

The call (to our worst instincts) is coming from inside the (white) house!

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

The core is this: The inflammation of a malignant, violent, anti-democratic core of lunatics.

There is nothing supernatural protecting our experiment, and it can be destroyed like every other experiment before. The only thing keeping it together are some basic shared beliefs about humanity, and eroding those erodes the nation.

I'm not arguing that we should even care about saving the nation as it currently exists, but the threat to our nation is on the inside and Trump inspires the very type of radical lunatics who would destroy our democratic society from the inside.

Good post.  You should stick with whatever combination of diet and exercise and concoction of pharmaceuticals it took for you to achieve the mental state you were in when you wrote it.  

[bad_teammate 13184]

Just now, Aphelion said:

Good post.  You should stick with whatever combination of diet and exercise and concoction of pharmaceuticals it took for you to achieve the mental state you were in when you wrote it.  

You're a troll.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

You're a troll.

But aren't you relieved he is here to judge us? I don't know what we would do without his stamp of approval or admonishments to change our ways!

[bad_teammate 13184]

It really highlights, I think, the philosophical and moral wasteland that the political right is right now. They literally cannot engage meaningfully with discussions about humanity because they have hitched their current political wagon to open and vile hatred that they cannot square with themselves internally.

They want a better world, but they know their own "side" currently represents hatred and chaos. They have ideas for maybe how the world could be better, but lib-owning overshadows everything else.

Hopefully they find a way out of the wilderness they have gotten lost in.

#sad

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

12 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

It really highlights, I think, the philosophical and moral wasteland that the political right is right now. They literally cannot engage meaningfully with discussions about humanity because they have hitched their current political wagon to open and vile hatred that they cannot square with themselves internally.

They want a better world, but they know their own "side" currently represents hatred and chaos. They have ideas for maybe how the world could be better, but lib-owning overshadows everything else.

Hopefully they find a way out of the wilderness they have gotten lost in.

#sad

 

Yeah, I don’t have much hope for them.  I check in on my old forum from time to time and their hatred has only intensified since the 2016 election.

I see posters I used to consider normies get completely radicalized to the partisan worldview.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

You're a troll.

 

[Huckleberry 32830]

Good post.  You should stick with whatever combination of diet and exercise and concoction of pharmaceuticals it took for you to achieve the mental state you were in when you wrote it.  

Quite the post from a guy decrying the lack of intelligent discourse in this forum on other threads.

[Lurch 5922]

1 hour ago, Aphelion said:

 If we agree that we don't like this new style of discourse, then let's not participate in it ourselves.  

 

33 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

Good post.  You should stick with whatever combination of diet and exercise and concoction of pharmaceuticals it took for you to achieve the mental state you were in when you wrote it.  

Concern trolling is hard, you guys.

[Huckleberry 32830]

Oh is this actually the same thread? Hahaha.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

41 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

Good post.  You should stick with whatever combination of diet and exercise and concoction of pharmaceuticals it took for you to achieve the mental state you were in when you wrote it.  

Quite the post from a guy decrying the lack of intelligent discourse in this forum on other threads.

Nothing I've said precludes backhanded compliments or commits me to writing an opus on every post. I actually thought his post was good and a nice break from his typical everyone who frustrates me is a nazi routine.  

[Fozzz 152]

1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

The core is this: The inflammation of a malignant, violent, anti-democratic core of lunatics.

There is nothing supernatural protecting our experiment, and it can be destroyed like every other experiment before. The only thing keeping it together are some basic shared beliefs about humanity, and eroding those erodes the nation.

I'm not arguing that we should even care about saving the nation as it currently exists, but the threat to our nation is on the inside and Trump inspires the very type of radical lunatics who would destroy our democratic society from the inside.

I think the most you could say is that Trump is an accelerant, but he's clearly not the one driving that erosion, which is a product of more fundamental forces.   In a way we may be lucky that we were given a phony opportunist like Trump rather than someone with real ideological commitments, like Bolsonaro for example.  

[Kyrie Eleison 9312]

13 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

Nothing I've said precludes backhanded compliments or commits me to writing an opus on every post. I actually thought his post was good and a nice break from his typical everyone who frustrates me is a nazi routine.  

 

[Huckleberry 32830]

18 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

Nothing I've said precludes backhanded compliments or commits me to writing an opus on every post. I actually thought his post was good and a nice break from his typical everyone who frustrates me is a nazi routine.  

Incredibly weak response. So you think nobody noticed the bullshit snide comments about chemicals needed for him to make that post?

You exposed yourself as a fraud with that post. No worries, it will be easier once you stop trying to pretend like you're above the fray.

[bad_teammate 13184]

When extremely stupid people think they're smart. lol

[Bat Guano 359]

8 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Incredibly weak response. So you think nobody noticed the bullshit snide comments about chemicals needed for him to make that post?

You exposed yourself as a fraud with that post. No worries, it will be easier once you stop trying to pretend like you're above the fray.

Yup. Just let it out, Aphelion. What you're missing about this board is that the snark, snide, and insults - sometimes good-natured, sometimes not - are part of what keeps this place interesting. Sure, it can get out of hand, but it would be a lot less entertaining without them. So a good one-liner (you've got to work on that) about BT's physical and chemical hygiene is by no means out of place. Just be sure you can take it as well as dish it out.

[Guest]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Incredibly weak response. So you think nobody noticed the bullshit snide comments about chemicals needed for him to make that post?

You exposed yourself as a fraud with that post. No worries, it will be easier once you stop trying to pretend like you're above the fray.

I have a hard time believing you really think I'm a fraud.  I think it is more likely you think you've got me in a game of gotcha.  You seem to have misconstrued what I've stated into an appeal for us all to achieve a perfect moral standard in debate.  I don't think we should wish harm on each other's families and I think it would be better if the board had less spam, reposts, and content free posts.  We seem to agree on these points.  My making a back handed compliment, or even an insult if you want to categorize it that way (what I stated is a mild insult by this board's standards and would not be worth commenting on otherwise), has nothing to do with these points.  If it mattered, I would gladly apologize anyway, but of course no one on this forum is offended by such a comment and the point is to accuse me of being hypocritical to standard you have falsely portrayed me as presenting.  

 

Just now, bad_teammate said:

When extremely stupid people think they're smart. lol

Neither of us are stupid.  

 

1 minute ago, Bat Guano said:

Yup. Just let it out, Aphelion. What you're missing about this board is that the snark, snide, and insults - sometimes good-natured, sometimes not - are part of what keeps this place interesting. Sure, it can get out of hand, but it would be a lot less entertaining without them. So a good one-liner (you've got to work on that) about BT's physical and chemical hygiene is by no means out of place. Just be sure you can take it as well as dish it out.

I don't give a damn about snark and snide and I've been just as much of an asshole as the majority of the posters here.  I try to be less and less of one, but I'm not claiming perfection in that area and that has not been the subject of my posts.  

[Bat Guano 359]