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Looking at Texas Defense 2018 - OSU


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7 minutes ago, JerryHubbard said:

Bimage is overpowered. He cannot hold up against the run.

Wheeler is slow and passive. In clip 1, he had a huge lane to run through and meet the RB just beyond the LOS, but he is slow shuffling and is content to ride the scrum down the field.

What the hell is he doing on that play? Wow. We’ve gotta have someone who wants to make a tackle there as a backup, captain or no captain.

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11 minutes ago, JerryHubbard said:

Wheeler is slow and passive. In clip 1, he had a huge lane to run through and meet the RB just beyond the LOS, but he is slow shuffling and is content to ride the scrum down the field.

Compare Wheeler's play in Clip 1 to Malik's in the other clip.  Very similar opportunities.  Malik takes advantage of his and makes a TFL; Wheeler hops down the line.

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Wheeler and Locke were really bad, and have been subpar all year.  If they have to make any decision (which is a given in college football) they take themselves completely out of play.   Hager was his usual, head-down, red-dog.  There are many times when he (unlike 45 and 11) needs to pause to see who has the ball and what the hell is happening.  I am not a big fan of the 3-2-6... It's like a 2.5-1-5 with Hager, Wheeler, and Locke when the other team does a QB option run or play-action pass.

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1 hour ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I’ve always hated the front 3 anything. 3-3-5 or 3-2-6. I think this team would greatly benefit from a 4-2-5 alignment but we all know this coaching staff will double and triple down and stay with it or it shows that mensa is wrong. 

So your claim here is that Herman is now dictating to Orlando what defensive package we run?  SMH

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I know everyone is going to go lookup heights once they read what I’m posting below. When I say undersized, it’s because their frames are too small (or big).

Wheeler is slow to respond and runs too slowly.

Bimage and Hager are undersized.

Omenihu has the size but takes off plays because he has to take on so many double teams and there isn’t much depth behind him.

Graham is undersized.

Nelson and Wilbon are undersized.

McCullough and Ossai are tweeners. My definition of tweeners is someone who is not great at DL or LB because they aren’t built optimally for either.

Locke makes some key plays but also gets exposed by quick or tall receivers.

I’m starting to realize that Herman and Orlando are working with less than it would appear. I was thrown off by Herman stating awhile back that the DL was a strength. It is not, and I don’t understand why he would say it is.

Maybe the frames are there but the younger players like Graham or Ossai haven’t yet built out. Ossai was one of my favorite recruits too. He might just need more strength conditioning.

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The odd thing about Locke is he seemed like a pretty decent player as a Soph that I think we all expected to be a leader of the D his last 2 years.  Instead it seems like he's continued to regress.  Disappointing.  I never really expected the light to come on for Wheeler.  He'll have a few flashes each season but never remotely been consistent.   Agreed I would like to see us start playing their replacements.   Can't be worse.

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1 minute ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

The head coach has the final say in EVERYTHING we do. You don't think he does? SMH.

Herman has always been an offensive guy.  If you want to say it's on him because he's the head coach, fine, but to say our defensive package is a result of "Mensa being stubborn" is ridiculous.  Herman isn't putting together the defensive game plan week in and week out.  I like Orlando a lot but Gundy kicked his ass last week.  It happens.  Gundy has done it to great DC's before and he'll do it again. But it's on Orlando.

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26 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

I’m starting to realize that Herman and Orlando are working with less than it would appear.

Perhaps.

There are guys who are playing who don't know what their jobs are and try to make up with athleticism.  If this guy is a freshman, ok, maybe cut them slack because they need to learn their job (nevermind that we are 8 games through the season).  But if a guy is a senior and still doesn't know his job, and doesn't play with fundamentals, that is a huge problem.

Then there are guys that don't know their jobs, and also can't make up for it with athleticism.  That is even worse.

So on any given snap, how many of the 11 defenders know what their job / responsibility are?  Are they not being taught effectively?  Do they actually know their job, but don't trust the other guys and try guess to make the play themselves?

Talk goes to things like "I don't like 3 man fronts" or "I don't like 3-2 dime."  I guess Madden it to 4-2 because... the 2 LBs don't know their job in 3-2, but they will know it when you put another DL in.  Do we have enough DL to run out 4 at a time?  Or do we take out a DB for another LB that can't beat out the 2 who aren't doing their job for 3-3, or add two for 3-4?

Edited by El Hornarino
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3 man fronts are designed to eat up blockers and allow free running LBs to make plays. Their job is to keep gap integrity and hold up against double teams. If they try to work behind the play, it frees up an O lineman to hit the second level. If they are driven backwards, it impedes the defensive flow. The 4i is not a glamour position - tackles from him are just gravy. But if he does not do his job, the entire scheme is fubar on any off tackle play. He has to force a double team and hold his ground.

 

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30 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Herman has always been an offensive guy.  If you want to say it's on him because he's the head coach, fine, but to say our defensive package is a result of "Mensa being stubborn" is ridiculous.  Herman isn't putting together the defensive game plan week in and week out.  I like Orlando a lot but Gundy kicked his ass last week.  It happens.  Gundy has done it to great DC's before and he'll do it again. But it's on Orlando.

No I am saying if Herman lets Orlando run a 3 man front when it's obvious it isn't working it is on him. Our defense hasn't looked great all year and at one time our two best wins (USC and TCU) are now not that great and since the start of the 4th qtr against ousucks we have been getting beat a lot. I would love to see 4 and 5 man fronts just to mix it up without having to bring up LB's to blitz. 

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I’m very interested in what is being taught about getting up field leaving vacated space. Having watched back through some other game film, there are lots of guys getting up the field out of position and the RB runs right past them. It happened quite a bit against ousux and it happened against the pokes. Tonight I’ll post some more gifs from OSU, and it will show the 1st teamers being out of position.

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3 minutes ago, USNALonghorn said:

I like 4 man fronts because nostalgia.

But seriously, wouldn't having an extra DL out there help mask our deficiencies at LB?

Well not necessarily. In our 3 tight sets, the whole idea is to crash the middle forcing an outside spill or bounce by the ball carrier. This is also working to try and take away conflict from a LB or DB which is where you get RPO’d in space. The reality is, is we are weakest on the DL and we have the most talent on the field with our 3 man fronts. It’s why our hybrid guys are so important in this defense. Out of the 3-3-5 we are able to bring a player up to the line and have 4 down type looks. But trading a playmaker in space, for a less talented DL player isn’t ideal for us imo.

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Babers on the Horn says that OSU did a great job of using 2 RB and 2 TE sets to overpower the LB’s. He is concerned Tech, WV and ISU now have the blueprint to beat our defense. Just like Strong in his second year, Big 12 offenses figure out the defenses.

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5 hours ago, VinyVango said:

Wheeler and Locke were really bad, and have been subpar all year.  If they have to make any decision (which is a given in college football) they take themselves completely out of play.   Hager was his usual, head-down, red-dog.  There are many times when he (unlike 45 and 11) needs to pause to see who has the ball and what the hell is happening.  I am not a big fan of the 3-2-6... It's like a 2.5-1-5 with Hager, Wheeler, and Locke when the other team does a QB option run or play-action pass.

Weren't Wheeler and Locke on the bench a lot during last 3 or 4 B12 Games last year??

LBs were Malik & GJ...... Antwuan Davis at NB

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21 minutes ago, Machinator said:

Orlando defenses are not great unless the linebacker play is great. Our linebacker play is not great.

giphy.gif

We are lined up wrong against a Tackle-over formation.  I think it's Chris Brown in at Joker.

Edited by JBJ
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2 minutes ago, JBJ said:

We are lined up wrong against a Tackle-over formation.

Indeed. The 4i to the play side doesn’t hold the double and the tackle and extra big are able to get up field walling off the LBs. Again the play is to the weak side, which happens to also be the field and we are aligned in 3-2-6 with the middle robber. At no point do we have numbers to attack that play or at the very least spill it laterally at the line of scrimmage. That’s really bad.

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1 hour ago, Machinator said:

Orlando defenses are not great unless the linebacker play is great. Our linebacker play is not great.

giphy.gif

Everything here is bad, except backside pass coverage.

Alignment, bad. Why is the field safety 20 yards off?

Hager NEVER slow plays anything... just runs to the QB (and would have missed him, too)

DL play against OL, bad. Free to set up a wall at 2nd level.

Fighting through/off blocks, terrible (non-existent)

Tackling by DBs, bad.

Pursuit angles, terrible.

We were beaten at the snap.

Defense:

1. stop the run

2. don't give up a big pass play

F-

 

 

 

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Hager's key is the RB.  He should have ignored the QB and just blasted the RB.  This board hates for him do that, but it is the way this defense is designed.

Nelson fights the double, eventually splits it, and just gets there a bit late.  Not terrible.  He held the double long enough, the LB was just slow to the play.  If we were lined up correctly, Nelson likely makes the play.

Omenihu gets too little of OT1, but ends up splitting the double.  If his hands were good, he could have taken the block without getting locked wide and he might make the play or at least force a harder cut.  Not ideal, not terrible, but not good.

Can't say much about the LBers because we are not lined up correctly. If we were, the play probably doesn't go terrible.

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We are out numbered at the line of scrimmage, the safeties are playing deep and at the snap they are both back pedaling. So no run support help from them until the RB gets 10+ yards down field.  That alignment is beaten badly before the ball is snapped. Sterns is a great talent and is a hell of a ball hawk, but his weakness is run support. 

Edited by sunset87
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Coach V's write-up on Defense vs OSU

We didn’t play well. Our tackling lacked conviction—not to mention contact. Getting off blocks was Mission: Impossible. Getting lost was a sure bet. I sometimes think we depend on too much help (thinking) from the sideline and not near enough on our ability to figure crap out for ourselves. Our ability to understand down/distance and declaration (strong—weak) seems Lost In Space too often. Watching players racing from one side to the other (late) and/or huge cushions on short/medium downs continues to dazzle me.

We allowed the zone keep to basically win the game for them. It goes much deeper than that. We slant a ton with our T-N-T. We make a ton of plays with those three guys wrecking furniture. It’s the second aspect that kills us. If you slant a 4i inside (3-2) you must maintain leverage outside with the backside LB. He can’t follow the zone fake inside (he’s not needed there) and yet both of our LB’s (we only play two) were guilty of false-stepping inside every time on the ZR. They blocked themselves. No adjustment—no coaching point.

Sometimes we have the added pleasure of having our nickel/SS outside in the alley for the zone keep. Sometimes they play contain (correct assignment) but sometimes they suck inside (wrong decision). It’s the getting off of the block that appears to be our biggest problem in the alley and not having an inside-out scraping LB opens the gate.

I was disappointed that we abandoned the age-old technique of going thru the receiver for the interception. Watching our DB’s play the ball behind the WR (tip, overthrow,???) didn’t cut the mustard. We had several mis-timed blitzes from deep in the secondary that seldom got to the LOS before the ball was thrown. We still have problems identifying receiver assignments—the td pass to the TE on the GL was uncontested. The 8th game of the year. This is just Waylon Jennings Wrong.

We gave up over 525 yards. 38 points and could have been more (two missed FG’s). We missed so many tackles—the effort was there but production wasn’t. We played 52 snaps in the first half (33, 45, 7, and 19 played every single one of them). Foster (25) was our best defensive player.

I sincerely hope the coaches grade this game with accountability. We have glaring errors that need attention to detail. It’s not effort (although it’s obvious some are playing too many snaps)—it’s all execution and a lack of assignment knowledge. Maybe a simpler game plan would benefit and reduce the mistakes. We definitely need to clean up—that was awful.

Home game this week—we need to put on a show.

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3 hours ago, sunset87 said:

We are out numbered at the line of scrimmage, the safeties are playing deep and at the snap they are both back pedaling. So no run support help from them until the RB gets 10+ yards down field.  That alignment is beaten badly before the ball is snapped. Sterns is a great talent and is a hell of a ball hawk, but his weakness is run support. 

Yeah...  I'm no football genius but that is exactly what I see.  5 OL plus a TE against 5 in the box with no one else even close.  You can see the steam roller coming before the snap.  I wish we at least had a solid 4 down set as a change of pace.  

When I think of 3 down defense I think of the old Steeler Ds that had 3 grown ass men on the DL and a stand up monster LB that was a moving piece for bludgeoning the edges.  I know this isn't the 90s, but playing 2 DEs and a NT plus a small LB and a LB with concrete feet seems like a recipe to get the ball shoved down your throats from TE sets.  

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3-2-6 is a great defense against spread teams which does make it a good base defense for the big 12. But when a team has two tight ends on the field you have to adjust or you are going to be overpowered. Sub in an extra d tackle, kick Hager out wide and go nickel. If they wanna run spread with two tight ends fine

Edited by cmontexas
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Here is the winning TD by OSU...

0mWkCc.gif

As you can see we are in our 3 Tite scheme, which looks similar to a double eagle look. We have decided that the strong side is to the field. During alignment, Anthony Wheeler tells Gary Johnson to switch. This ends up being the correct read. The defensive line slants down at the snap, getting the QB to keep the ball. Up to this point that is exactly what we want to happen. We have numbers on the back side against a slower runner. In fact, we have a +2 advantage. Yet we fail miserably... Gary Johnson completely takes himself out of the play, even before Sterns slows him down. Before the snap of the ball Gary is sliding right anticipating a give to the RB. At this point I have to wonder, does Gary think he doesn't have C gap responsibility, and that he is only responsible for reading the QB? It is possible for some reason he thinks this, because Foster could have C gap responsibility, and is the edge guy forcing the QB back inside towards Gary? Depending on what the defensive call is, either guy could have the C gap responsibility. However, Foster clearly doesn't think he has that responsibility because at the snap he sits covering the #2 WR. The most likely scenario, is that Gary is the responsible party here, because with RPO reads, if Foster slips past the WR too early, he will be open. Of course the WR never even looks like he is faking a block to run a route, this was run all the way. Regardless, because Gary gets sucked in, he is immediately in chase mode. Foster then makes one of the weakest possible efforts at a tackle all night. Talk about hitting the freshman wall. But if that isn't bad enough, Caden Sterns has no idea where to go and because he is so out of control, he ends up getting juked by the QB 6 yards away!! Seriously, watch the QB fake inside of Foster and watch how Sterns stumbles and falls. EMBARRASSING!!! And in doing so, trips up Gary Johnson. Sterns has no reason to run up to the play so fast. He is the last line of defense, a true safety at this point to either help Gary make the tackle inside, or help Foster make the tackle outside. But Sterns has a pattern of running so fast he takes himself out of a play, and here he does it again. 

This is a play that really speaks to our inadequacy all night. But furthermore, and more concerning frankly, this has been a trend for the Texas defense that I noticed around the K-State game. There seems to be communication errors between players, and this idea that some one will clean up my mistake. I absolutely agree with Coach V's assessment that we have a problem with execution and assignment knowledge. In too many games, we have players completely out of position or attack the wrong gaps leaving someone else to clean up the mess. However in a lot of those cases, there is no one in the area and big runs are broken. I understand we want our guys to play fast and instinctual, but they need better instincts and that comes from coaching. Playing fast has resulted in us getting extremely gashed. 

There were plenty of those rusn in the ousux game. The most frustrating being the long run by Kyler Murray. I'm gonna gif that play just so you can see how fucked up it is. This is fucking horrible. 

g5nyk6.gif

Just watch this play from the snap... Not even the ousux OL knows that the fuck is going on. The LT runs into the pulling RG and RT. It's basically a QB counter, and they've blown up their own play. Except, Charles Omenihu gets up field far too fast, and instead of minding contain, allow Murray to slip out underneath, where you guessed it, no one is at all. So where are the LB's? Currently they are on the LOS filling gaps. For whatever reason, Gary Johnson decides to slide left at the snap as the C and LG block down. At this point he is not being blocked, but because he slides he gets blocked by the pulling RT. Foster ends up running into the back of Johnson, who then is also effectively blocked by the same RT. The LT puts hands on Foster but at this point it doesn't matter. We have now vacated the B gap, and have gotten 2 players walled off by a single pulling RT. The ousux RG doesn't even really know who to block after running into his LT and chases Omenihu up the field. I'm sure the RG is confused. Now Murray is off to the races and hasn't even been touched even though again, Foster has no reason whatsoever to attack the A Gap. At the Very least, he should be reading Murray, not diving into the LOS. If Omenihu is able to stay home, its possible that we delay Murray enough that Hager gets him from behind. If not, hopefully we are able to spill the play laterally until we can get help from the secondary. Of course, speaking of the secondary, it's a complete disaster, as Sterns takes a horrific angle, and Davis can't get off a block. The play was filled with errors, and we ended up making the majority of them.

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Babers on the Horn says that OSU did a great job of using 2 RB and 2 TE sets to overpower the LB’s. He is concerned Tech, WV and ISU now have the blueprint to beat our defense. Just like Strong in his second year, Big 12 offenses figure out the defenses.


And just like Strong from year 1 to year 2, we lost NFL talent on the D.
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15 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

I’ve always hated the front 3 anything. 3-3-5 or 3-2-6. I think this team would greatly benefit from a 4-2-5 alignment but we all know this coaching staff will double and triple down and stay with it or it shows that mensa is wrong. 

The philosophy is sound against the spread if you have the personnel to execute. It's about numbers. 

The idea is to plug the inside running lanes and force double teams, 3 on 5. That gives you numbers mismatch in coverage and defending the RPO.   Though once they start throwing more bodies out there with TEa and multi back sets you have to adjust with more big bodies on your side.  

Last year with the wealth of good QBs and high pass proficiency offenses it was a really good scheme.  This year with all the transition going on we should be more flexible with our schemes.  

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