Caravan

[Brian Fantana 6,685]

Whoosh.

[ChickenSandwich 9,834]

14 hours ago, Captainant said:

Yeah, why would poor, downtrodden people want to seek asylum and a better future in THE GREATEST COUNTRY OF ALL TIME?? No idea why that could be more appealing than a second world country for the place to restart your life

So it’s not about “asylum” what so ever. It’s about shopping for the best deal.  All of Central America and Mexico have the right to an American tax payer funded asylum hearing according to you. Of which the overwhelming majority will be denied because they are simply economic migrants trying to cut the line and game the system  

Can’t have Medicare for all or fee college with unlimited illegal immigration. This isn’t an asylum caravan.  Build the wall

Edited December 18, 2018 by ChickenSandwich

[InkaUtexas 25,918]

The wall will not stop it. 

1- Guest Worker program with a 20 year path to citizenship IF the person stays out of trouble, pays taxes, and remains with the same employer/industry. Hold the employer responsible for providing data required by federal government. 

2- Micro Marshall plan for Central America. Get manufacturing going there vs. SE Asia. 

3- Establish Asylum centers in Central America where people can apply without spending their savings on walking/riding north. Would also keep part of remissions being sent home in the US. 

4- Allow and support the anti-gang fight in the region. Central America can never get over the stigma from the 1980's, no matter how much their institutions evolve for the better. They need to be allowed to kick ass when needed. 

[Huckleberry 32,859]

28 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So it’s not about “asylum” what so ever. It’s about shopping for the best deal.  All of Central America and Mexico have the right to an American tax payer funded asylum hearing according to you. Of which the overwhelming majority will be denied because they are simply economic migrants trying to cut the line and game the system  

Can’t have Medicare for all or fee college with unlimited illegal immigration. This isn’t an asylum caravan.  Build the wall

Actually, that's according to the law and also the international treaties we've signed.

You know, since you care about the law and all.

[Brisketexan 105,123]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Actually, that's according to the law and also the international treaties we've signed.

You know, since you care about the law and all.

Narrator: he doesn't.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

26 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Actually, that's according to the law and also the international treaties we've signed.

You know, since you care about the law and all.

Fair enough, the rule of law should always prevail. That being said this was an orchestrated and designed effort to make this an issue for Trump and the country at large.  The treaties certainly didn't figure in this kind of blatant attempt to crash the system.  

[Brian Fantana 6,685]

What the actual fuck are you talking about?

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

8 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

What the actual fuck are you talking about?

Go away and come back after recess, your nap, and your cookie.  If you think the caravan wasn't bought, and paid for you're more ignorant than I imagined.  

[Brian Fantana 6,685]

5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Go away and come back after recess, your nap, and your cookie.  If you think the caravan wasn't bought, and paid for you're more ignorant than I imagined.  

Who funded it, Hillary or Soros?

[DDD Dad 14,338]

20 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Fair enough, the rule of law should always prevail. That being said this was an orchestrated and designed effort to make this an issue for Trump and the country at large.  The treaties certainly didn't figure in this kind of blatant attempt to crash the system.  

I agree this was an orchestrated and designed effort to make this an issue BY Trump.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Who funded it, Hillary or Soros?

Hillary wouldn't, she hates brown people, and theres no money in it for her. Who knows who funded it, but that many people did not walk to this country without funds, and they didn't ride buses and trains for free.

[Brian Fantana 6,685]

Amazing.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

I agree this was an orchestrated and designed effort to make this an issue BY Trump.

I wouldn't be surprised, but it was orchestrated and funded.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

Just now, Brian Fantana said:

Amazing.

Yes I am, you not so much.

[Brian Fantana 6,685]

I am just going to sit here and wait for you to post literally any evidence to support your claim. Literally anything. I'll wait.

[DDD Dad 14,338]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I wouldn't be surprised, but it was orchestrated and funded.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

I am just going to sit here and wait for you to post literally any evidence to support your claim. Literally anything. I'll wait.

Gosh, I'll get right on that while you sit there and try to think how people (with infants) without a penny  to their names can get from Guatemala or anywhere in Central America can get to the American border on buses and trains during their journey (if the videos showing that are indeed accurate).  Companies just donated those conveyances and food along the way ?

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

That's a nice hat ya got there. Mine is Kevlar Coated with extra thick aluminum foil,  made right here in Richmond, Va. much better at the signal blocking.

[DDD Dad 14,338]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

That's a nice hat ya got there. Mine is Kevlar Coated with extra thick aluminum foil,  made right here in Richmond, Va. much better at the signal blocking.

You're in Richmond?  Love the Jefferson Hotel and the restaurants down in the Shockhoe Sllip (UVA alumn).  

[Brian Fantana 6,685]

Still waiting. I've got until 11:30

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

 

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

Still waiting. I've got until 11:30

Is that when nap time starts ?

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

You're in Richmond?  Love the Jefferson Hotel and the restaurants down in the Shockhoe Sllip (UVA alumn).  

Yeah, right outside in the suburbs.  My previous studio was a block or two away from the Jefferson. Have a buddy who lives in the rooftop apt next to it. He used to have full moon parties, and you'd see the moon rise behind the hotel, very beautiful.  

Ahh good ol UVA, was up there last Sunday to watch them play VCU in the snow storm. We ended up staying and partying on the Corner and the Mall all night.

[DDD Dad 14,338]

I miss Gus burgers and the old U Diner (RIP).

[Huckleberry 32,859]

41 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Fair enough, the rule of law should always prevail. That being said this was an orchestrated and designed effort to make this an issue for Trump and the country at large.  The treaties certainly didn't figure in this kind of blatant attempt to crash the system.  

Yes it was most certainly an orchestrated effort to turn it into a political hot button issue. It's just that you don't realize which side was behind it.

12 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Gosh, I'll get right on that while you sit there and try to think how people (with infants) without a penny  to their names can get from Guatemala or anywhere in Central America can get to the American border on buses and trains during their journey (if the videos showing that are indeed accurate).  Companies just donated those conveyances and food along the way ?

Maybe they met a lot of actual Christians, not American Christians, along the way. Just a thought.

I take it you don't realize that migrant caravans have happened frequently in the past as well. Or do you think some bogeyman is bankrolling these things every year?

Edited December 18, 2018 by Huckleberry

[Huckleberry 32,859]

nm

Edited December 18, 2018 by Huckleberry

[HenryJames 66,048]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

nm

Your best post ever.

[Brian Fantana 6,685]

10:05 and still no evidence! What gives??

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

6 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yes it was most certainly an orchestrated effort to turn it into a political hot button issue. It's just that you don't realize which side was behind it.

Maybe they met a lot of actual Christians, not American Christians, along the way. Just a thought.

I take it you don't realize that migrant caravans have happened frequently in the past as well. Or do you think some bogeyman is bankrolling these things every year?

Maybe, and maybe monkeys will fly out yer butt

[Brian Fantana 6,685]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Maybe, and maybe monkeys will fly out yer butt

Nah yer mom's butt. Nerd.

[Huckleberry 32,859]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Maybe, and maybe monkeys will fly out yer butt

You realize you just admitted defeat, right? You are correct that the possibility that some evil liberal bankroller bought and paid for this caravan is just as likely as monkeys flying out of my ass. We agree.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You realize you just admitted defeat, right? You are correct that the possibility that some evil liberal bankroller bought and paid for this caravan is just as likely as monkeys flying out of my ass. We agree.

No. I didn't  I just refute  your assertion it was a spontaneous outpouring of funds 

[Brian Fantana 6,685]

Man this is so tragic.

[bolverk 29,671]

Seems that Mexico is trying a different path to solve much of this mess. Worth reading in full (headline doesn't tell the full story):

Mexico’s Strategy for Dealing With Trump: Warn Him About China

MEXICO CITY — Mexico’s new government has a strategy for dealing with President Trump.

Don’t anger him. Don’t cave in to him. Try to get him to help fund an ambitious investment plan to stem migration by creating jobs in Central America.

And if Mr. Trump cannot be persuaded, Mexican officials said in interviews that they would remind him that there is another player in the region willing to step into the vacuum: China.

That, in a nut shell, is the approach the Mexican government is betting can defuse the standoff over the thousands of migrants amassed at its border with the United States, hoping to make it across.

Mexico’s plan to try to raise money to develop Central America and southern Mexico was announced last week, when Andrés Manuel López Obrador, the country’s new president, introduced what he called a “Marshall Plan” to address the root causes of Central American migration: a $30 billion initiative to invest in the region and welcome migrants into Mexico with visas, health care and employment.

Mexican officials have compared the proposal to the plan to rebuild postwar Europe. This approach would represent a break with Mr. López Obrador’s predecessor, who considered giving in to Mr. Trump’s demands and allowing people seeking asylum in the United States to remain in Mexico while they wait.

And Mexico’s new plan is, in many respects, the opposite of Mr. Trump’s vow to crack down on migration, which includes building a wall, deploying the military and cutting aid to Central America.

Spoiler

 

In speaking about the contours of their new policy, Mexican officials told The New York Times that they would not force a confrontation with Mr. Trump by demanding that he accept the migrants onto American soil; that would only anger the American president, and he would not do it anyway, they said.

But at the same time, they said they were not going to strike a deal with the United States to keep asylum seekers on the Mexican side of the border. That would allow Mr. Trump to claim a victory Mexican officials are not willing to give him. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to aggravate already strained relationships with the Trump administration.

Instead, they want to change the focus of the conversation to expanding the economy of Central America and the south of their country by marshaling public and private investment to build infrastructure, develop the energy sector and create jobs in the region so people do not have to stream north in the first place.

They acknowledge that it may be difficult to convince the Trump administration to invest large sums in the region, a proposal they have only recently broached with American officials.

Buy they are hoping the perceived threat of China’s growing presence in the region can be used as leverage to bring the United States on board.

While it is unclear how much more China would be willing to invest in the region, in recent years it has increased its presence throughout Latin America, financing infrastructure projects, tightening ties with governments and even convincing a handful of Central American nations to switch their diplomatic recognition of Taiwan to China — a sticking point with the Americans.

The Mexican strategy to rely on the United States’ concerns about China’s expanding influence in the region reflects a growing sense in Mexico that it can no longer take cooperation with the United States for granted.

Both the White House and State Department declined to comment on the Mexican proposal.

“For a long time there has been this competition within Latin America for influence, where China is willing to invest billions in infrastructure and energy that the United States simply isn’t,” said Duncan Wood, the director of the Mexico Institute at the Wilson Center.

The proposal is also a reflection of the distinct personalities of Mr. López Obrador and Mr. Trump: Both are mavericks — albeit on opposite sides of the political spectrum — and both are willing to break with long-established conventions.

“Partly because of Trump and partly because of Andrés Manuel, there is an opening there,” Mr. Wood said.

Unlike his predecessor, Mr. López Obrador is willing to chart an independent course in his response to the Trump administration — partly because of Mr. Trump’s hard line on migration and partly out of a conviction that the only way to tackle the matter is to go after its root causes.

And to do that, Mexico will look for help wherever it can find it, including China, which has already expressed an interest in Mr. López Obrador’s plan to lay hundreds of miles of track for a tourist train in the Yucatán Peninsula — a project widely opposed by environmental advocates.

Of course, that does not mean Mexico will make a sharp turn to China, given its longstanding relationship with the United States. Nor does floating the idea that China may participate make Mexico’s costly proposal any more plausible.

“The money is just not there,” said Mark Feierstein, the former senior director for Western Hemisphere affairs at the National Security Council during the Obama administration. He noted that the United States was spending more than $650 million a year in Central America’s Northern Triangle, which is composed of Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.

But that may be beside the point.

“If nothing else, it is a good bargaining chip,” said Doris Meissner, a senior fellow at the Migration Policy Institute in Washington, of the idea that China could increase its investment in the region. “Both sides are laying down their frameworks and their points of view as to how they should proceed.”

The idea that China could increase its influence in Mexico emerged even before Mr. López Obrador came into office.

“I heard from senior Mexican officials during the transition that if the United States is not going to treat Mexico with respect, don’t be surprised if you see a Chinese submarine in a Mexican port,” said Juan Gonzalez, who was an adviser to Vice President Joseph R. Biden on Central America.

“I think it was hyperbolic,” he said of the outgoing officials’ warning, before adding, “I think Mexico sees increased political risk coming from the political process in the United States and they are diversifying their interests.”

Since taking office on Dec. 1, Mr. López Obrador has done nothing if not shake up the establishment.

He has announced the cancellation of the construction of a new airport, a multibillion-dollar project that was well underway, and temporarily suspended new auctions for oil exploration in Mexico. He has also cut salaries for government employees and proposed a measure to dismantle a much-vaunted education overhaul.

As he did on the campaign trail, Mr. López Obrador has focused on domestic issues — an inward-looking vision that differs from recent Mexican presidents who saw the global stage as the nation’s future.

But the migrant crisis forced its way to the top of the agenda, proving a frustrating first test for Mr. López Obrador.

The arrival of thousands of migrants traveling in caravans from Honduras and other Central American countries raised the profile of an existing problem, increasing the stakes and forcing Mr. López Obrador to decide how to manage it just days after taking office.

For decades, Mexico kept its head down as hundreds of thousands of migrants — many of them Mexican — made their way into the United States. But in recent years, the nation’s status as a transit country has changed.

Mexico is becoming a destination, not just a portal to the United States. Every year, more people apply for asylum in Mexico, and many more choose to stay and seek work. A bottleneck in the United States has meant that thousands of migrants are stuck waiting months at the border for their initial asylum interview with the American authorities.

In 2014, at the urging of the Obama administration, Mexico adopted a tough policing strategy along its southern border with Guatemala that essentially amounted to detention and deportation. But that also failed to curtail the flow of migrants.

Today, with about 10,000 migrants having entered Mexico in caravans that focused global media attention on their plight, mass roundups and deportations are not an option, officials say. Nor is striking a deal with the Trump administration to host the migrants indefinitely.

So Mr. López Obrador’s government is trying to fold them into Mexican society — and raise money to invest in projects that would boost employment and prosperity in the region.

“It’s not enough just to point out that the causes of migration have to be dealt with,” said Marcelo Ebrard, Mexico’s foreign secretary, adding that Mexico wants to counter the idea “that the best way to confront migration is through exclusion and control.”

This is, in part, a recognition that Mexico forms a part of a busy migration corridor and that, with or without help from the United States, it has to deal with the issue.

“Finally, the issue of the Northern Triangle and migration is seen as a regional issue,” said Rafael Fernández de Castro, the director of the Center for U.S.-Mexican Studies at the University of California, San Diego, and a former Mexican presidential adviser. “There is a window of opportunity. The knowledge and awareness have never been as clear as they are now.”

Mr. López Obrador is also signaling an interest in playing a broader leadership role in the region, as Mexico did during the 1970s and 1980s.

“Mexico wants to take back leadership in the region,” said Rodolfo Cruz Piñeiro, director of the department for population studies at the College of the Northern Border in Tijuana. “Mexico is telling the U.S.: ‘I can control this region for you, but I need your economic help.’”

“What will the U.S. ask?’’ he added. “That’s the great unknown.”

 

 

[InkaUtexas 25,918]

Yep, Mexico and the US are pushing a few initiatives. US is doing it via the Millennium Challenge and both are aiming at infrastructure (energy and roads). It is not enough. 

[Brisketexan 105,123]

13 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Seems that Mexico is trying a different path to solve much of this mess. Worth reading in full (headline doesn't tell the full story):

Mexico’s Strategy for Dealing With Trump: Warn Him About China

MEXICO CITY — Mexico’s new government has a strategy for dealing with President Trump.

Don’t anger him. Don’t cave in to him. Try to get him to help fund an ambitious investment plan to stem migration by creating jobs in Central America.

And if Mr. Trump cannot be persuaded, Mexican officials said in interviews that they would remind him that there is another player in the region willing to step into the vacuum: China.

That, in a nut shell, is the approach the Mexican government is betting can defuse the standoff over the thousands of migrants amassed at its border with the United States, hoping to make it across.

Mexico’s plan to try to raise money to develop Central America and southern Mexico was announced last week, when Andrés Manuel López Obrador, the country’s new president, introduced what he called a “Marshall Plan” to address the root causes of Central American migration: a $30 billion initiative to invest in the region and welcome migrants into Mexico with visas, health care and employment.

Mexican officials have compared the proposal to the plan to rebuild postwar Europe. This approach would represent a break with Mr. López Obrador’s predecessor, who considered giving in to Mr. Trump’s demands and allowing people seeking asylum in the United States to remain in Mexico while they wait.

And Mexico’s new plan is, in many respects, the opposite of Mr. Trump’s vow to crack down on migration, which includes building a wall, deploying the military and cutting aid to Central America.

  Hide contents

 

In speaking about the contours of their new policy, Mexican officials told The New York Times that they would not force a confrontation with Mr. Trump by demanding that he accept the migrants onto American soil; that would only anger the American president, and he would not do it anyway, they said.

But at the same time, they said they were not going to strike a deal with the United States to keep asylum seekers on the Mexican side of the border. That would allow Mr. Trump to claim a victory Mexican officials are not willing to give him. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they did not want to aggravate already strained relationships with the Trump administration.

Instead, they want to change the focus of the conversation to expanding the economy of Central America and the south of their country by marshaling public and private investment to build infrastructure, develop the energy sector and create jobs in the region so people do not have to stream north in the first place.

They acknowledge that it may be difficult to convince the Trump administration to invest large sums in the region, a proposal they have only recently broached with American officials.

Buy they are hoping the perceived threat of China’s growing presence in the region can be used as leverage to bring the United States on board.

While it is unclear how much more China would be willing to invest in the region, in recent years it has increased its presence throughout Latin America, financing infrastructure projects, tightening ties with governments and even convincing a handful of Central American nations to switch their diplomatic recognition of Taiwan to China — a sticking point with the Americans.

The Mexican strategy to rely on the United States’ concerns about China’s expanding influence in the region reflects a growing sense in Mexico that it can no longer take cooperation with the United States for granted.

Both the White House and State Department declined to comment on the Mexican proposal.

“For a long time there has been this competition within Latin America for influence, where China is willing to invest billions in infrastructure and energy that the United States simply isn’t,” said Duncan Wood, the director of the Mexico Institute at the Wilson Center.

The proposal is also a reflection of the distinct personalities of Mr. López Obrador and Mr. Trump: Both are mavericks — albeit on opposite sides of the political spectrum — and both are willing to break with long-established conventions.

“Partly because of Trump and partly because of Andrés Manuel, there is an opening there,” Mr. Wood said.

Unlike his predecessor, Mr. López Obrador is willing to chart an independent course in his response to the Trump administration — partly because of Mr. Trump’s hard line on migration and partly out of a conviction that the only way to tackle the matter is to go after its root causes.

And to do that, Mexico will look for help wherever it can find it, including China, which has already expressed an interest in Mr. López Obrador’s plan to lay hundreds of miles of track for a tourist train in the Yucatán Peninsula — a project widely opposed by environmental advocates.

Of course, that does not mean Mexico will make a sharp turn to China, given its longstanding relationship with the United States. Nor does floating the idea that China may participate make Mexico’s costly proposal any more plausible.

“The money is just not there,” said Mark Feierstein, the former senior director for Western Hemisphere affairs at the National Security Council during the Obama administration. He noted that the United States was spending more than $650 million a year in Central America’s Northern Triangle, which is composed of Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador.

But that may be beside the point.

“If nothing else, it is a good bargaining chip,” said Doris Meissner, a senior fellow at the Migration Policy Institute in Washington, of the idea that China could increase its investment in the region. “Both sides are laying down their frameworks and their points of view as to how they should proceed.”

The idea that China could increase its influence in Mexico emerged even before Mr. López Obrador came into office.

“I heard from senior Mexican officials during the transition that if the United States is not going to treat Mexico with respect, don’t be surprised if you see a Chinese submarine in a Mexican port,” said Juan Gonzalez, who was an adviser to Vice President Joseph R. Biden on Central America.

“I think it was hyperbolic,” he said of the outgoing officials’ warning, before adding, “I think Mexico sees increased political risk coming from the political process in the United States and they are diversifying their interests.”

Since taking office on Dec. 1, Mr. López Obrador has done nothing if not shake up the establishment.

He has announced the cancellation of the construction of a new airport, a multibillion-dollar project that was well underway, and temporarily suspended new auctions for oil exploration in Mexico. He has also cut salaries for government employees and proposed a measure to dismantle a much-vaunted education overhaul.

As he did on the campaign trail, Mr. López Obrador has focused on domestic issues — an inward-looking vision that differs from recent Mexican presidents who saw the global stage as the nation’s future.

But the migrant crisis forced its way to the top of the agenda, proving a frustrating first test for Mr. López Obrador.

The arrival of thousands of migrants traveling in caravans from Honduras and other Central American countries raised the profile of an existing problem, increasing the stakes and forcing Mr. López Obrador to decide how to manage it just days after taking office.

For decades, Mexico kept its head down as hundreds of thousands of migrants — many of them Mexican — made their way into the United States. But in recent years, the nation’s status as a transit country has changed.

Mexico is becoming a destination, not just a portal to the United States. Every year, more people apply for asylum in Mexico, and many more choose to stay and seek work. A bottleneck in the United States has meant that thousands of migrants are stuck waiting months at the border for their initial asylum interview with the American authorities.

In 2014, at the urging of the Obama administration, Mexico adopted a tough policing strategy along its southern border with Guatemala that essentially amounted to detention and deportation. But that also failed to curtail the flow of migrants.

Today, with about 10,000 migrants having entered Mexico in caravans that focused global media attention on their plight, mass roundups and deportations are not an option, officials say. Nor is striking a deal with the Trump administration to host the migrants indefinitely.

So Mr. López Obrador’s government is trying to fold them into Mexican society — and raise money to invest in projects that would boost employment and prosperity in the region.

“It’s not enough just to point out that the causes of migration have to be dealt with,” said Marcelo Ebrard, Mexico’s foreign secretary, adding that Mexico wants to counter the idea “that the best way to confront migration is through exclusion and control.”

This is, in part, a recognition that Mexico forms a part of a busy migration corridor and that, with or without help from the United States, it has to deal with the issue.

“Finally, the issue of the Northern Triangle and migration is seen as a regional issue,” said Rafael Fernández de Castro, the director of the Center for U.S.-Mexican Studies at the University of California, San Diego, and a former Mexican presidential adviser. “There is a window of opportunity. The knowledge and awareness have never been as clear as they are now.”

Mr. López Obrador is also signaling an interest in playing a broader leadership role in the region, as Mexico did during the 1970s and 1980s.

“Mexico wants to take back leadership in the region,” said Rodolfo Cruz Piñeiro, director of the department for population studies at the College of the Northern Border in Tijuana. “Mexico is telling the U.S.: ‘I can control this region for you, but I need your economic help.’”

“What will the U.S. ask?’’ he added. “That’s the great unknown.”

 

 

Fantastic post.  AND, the right approach.  If you want to address immigration, address the underlying causes.  And it can absolutely be win-win, in multiple ways.  For example....cheap manufacturing base....why not have that in El Salvador instead of China?  That would both stabilize and raise the standard of living in Central America, AND keep China from asserting its influence in our backyard.  AND, of course, if you've got a good job, and a stable society that comes with decent employment, you don't flee your country and head here.

So, none of this will happen.  Because it's not cruel, and doesn't show that we are willing to punish the everloving fuck out of little brown people.  We voted for bullying, goddamit, we better see some bullying.

[Captainant 27,660]

2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So it’s not about “asylum” what so ever. It’s about shopping for the best deal.  All of Central America and Mexico have the right to an American tax payer funded asylum hearing according to you. Of which the overwhelming majority will be denied because they are simply economic migrants trying to cut the line and game the system  

Can’t have Medicare for all or fee college with unlimited illegal immigration. This isn’t an asylum caravan.  Build the wall

Like others have said... it's their legal right to seek asylum wherever they choose, and the US agreed to this through international treaties. Which are legally binding. So, do you want the US to break the law? By your rhetoric I'm certainly getting that impression.

[Dahobbs 17,534]

48 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Like others have said... it's their legal right to seek asylum wherever they choose, and the US agreed to this through international treaties. Which are legally binding. So, do you want the US to break the law? By your rhetoric I'm certainly getting that impression.

It isn't just treaties, which are nice, but those things go out the window all the time. Congress literally passed laws to allow people to seek asylum in the US if they so choose. If the law is the issue, the starting point would be to ask why the fuck the people who have complete control of our laws (at least until next year) have done zero to change them. Weird. 

[InkaUtexas 25,918]

Department of State Fact Sheet on the Alliance for Prosperity in the Northern Triangle. Just FYI

https://www.state.gov/p/wha/rt/strat/

[David Dennison 18,856]

15 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm here all the time and haven't seen that "sarcastic" response about guest worker visas.   I'd also say he is a proponent of amnesty, based on his posting history on the subject.

Not sure what's ironical about his comment  of amnesty to my comment of guest worker visa. Where's the irony ?   Not a lot daring about a guest worker visa program, Pretty tame stuff really.

Guest worker visas will be attacked by the unwashed right wing masses as AMNESTY!!!!

Because those people are largely racist, mouth breathing yokels.

[InkaUtexas 25,918]

The United States pledged $5.8 billion in aid Tuesday for strengthening government and economic development in Central America, and another $4.8 billion in development aid for southern Mexico.

The U.S aid aims to promote better security conditions and job opportunities as part of a regional plan to allow Central Americans to remain in their countries and not have to emigrate.

 

https://apnews.com/0fcda32812024680ad98676379c47233

[Huckleberry 32,859]

7 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

The United States pledged $5.8 billion in aid Tuesday for strengthening government and economic development in Central America, and another $4.8 billion in development aid for southern Mexico.

The U.S aid aims to promote better security conditions and job opportunities as part of a regional plan to allow Central Americans to remain in their countries and not have to emigrate.

 

https://apnews.com/0fcda32812024680ad98676379c47233

It's actually a good idea, but someone should tell the MAGA crowd that Trump is giving their money directly to the caravan and they won't even get cheap labor in America in exchange.

[InkaUtexas 25,918]

Nah, since the money is being allocated deeper south it will go to regional Pupusa and Chapare sales. hard to find those near Tijuana. 

[Kyle 207]

15 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

 

lulz

Pardon me for being able to discern the difference between attacking a person and dismissing an argument. Just because I may not agree with a particular person on a particular issue does not mean I feel the need to call that poster names. There are a lot of people I respect and admire on both sides of the aisle with whom I disagree on particular issues. We seem to not celebrate that ability too much these days. It is much easier to label and dismiss than to thoughtfully engage. 

[Kyle 207]

19 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

You shouldn't call Icono, Chrispy, Onboard, and Oatmealwhatever Nazis.  

I will if I ever seem them seeking to silence anyone who disagrees with them. I may have missed it, but I have not read them seeking protection against being exposed to diverse points of view.

[Dahobbs 17,534]

7 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Pardon me for being able to discern the difference between attacking a person and dismissing an argument. Just because I may not agree with a particular person on a particular issue does not mean I feel the need to call that poster names. There are a lot of people I respect and admire on both sides of the aisle with whom I disagree on particular issues. We seem to not celebrate that ability too much these days. It is much easier to label and dismiss than to thoughtfully engage. 

Still not seeing you "thoughtfully engage" on anything. You preach a lot, but I'm not seeing any practicing. 

Hearings, you figure out their purpose yet? Can you tell me why just following the law, as passed by Congress, is bad? If the people don't deserve asylum, they will not get it. And,  processing people as normal would have cost a fraction of what was spent on the military stunt.   

[David Dennison 18,856]

7 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I will if I ever seem them seeking to silence anyone who disagrees with them. I may have missed it, but I have not read them seeking protection against being exposed to diverse points of view.

Who would that be?

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Guest worker visas will be attacked by the unwashed right wing masses as AMNESTY!!!!

Because those people are largely racist, mouth breathing yokels.

Yeah that's an intelligent, paint with a broad brush stroke response.  Nothing new move along everyone................  

And, you just claimed the record for number of times a poster on Surly has called someone else, in this case it was millions of people, racist.  Bravo and kudos sir, you're a gem.  

[David Dennison 18,856]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah that's an intelligent, paint with a broad brush stroke response.  Nothing new move along everyone................  

And, you just claimed the record for number of times a poster on Surly has called someone else, in this case it was millions of people, racist.  Bravo and kudos sir, you're a gem.  

White people are racist.

Man lands on moon.

Water is wet.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

White people are racist.

Man lands on moon.

Water is wet.

 

 

Every race has racism. Jesus even having to explain this fact to you is astounding 

Men landed on the moon. More than one sport.  Oh shit they were white men !!  Dennisons world :  Racists landed on the moon.... Oh noes, We should have to vacate that achievement now.

Water is wet,  goody for you, one out of 3 right.

Dennison is an ignorant, dumb ass. An absolute eternal truth

 

 

Edited December 18, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[David Dennison 18,856]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Every race has racism. Jesus even having to explain this fact to you is astounding 

Men landed on the moon. More than one sport.

Water is wet,  goody for you, one out of 3 right

Dennison is an ignorant, dumb ass. An absolute eternal truth

America has a white racism problem and has for 400 years.

Even you know that.