Caravan

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19092]

Ok cool dude who likely has no life experience with anything guy.

You are obviously missing that reference.

[Michael Knight 12878]

Just now, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

I think it's fantastic that people are passionate about letting anyone in the country who wants in without any sort of process or concern for process. I just don't bend that way and think that immigrating to the US should not be a rubber stamp and that asylum/refugees should be well-defined in both the definition of what makes one and what to do in order to claim it.

Too much of any one metal into the melting pot at once won't smelt right.

Again, who let you into the country? What kind of process did you go through

[Michael Knight 12878]

Just now, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

I was born here of citizen parents. What kind of process did I go through to be born here legally? Or do you mean what kind of process did my parents go through to be born here legally? Or what kind of process my grandparents went through? 

I guess getting citizenship is easier when the majority of the country is a frontier manned by killer comanches or something.

So would you agree that everything you have and everything you've done is solely because you were lucky at birth. 

[Celery Man 20881]

1 minute ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

I think it's fantastic that people are passionate about letting anyone in the country who wants in without any sort of process or concern for process. I just don't bend that way and think that immigrating to the US should not be a rubber stamp and that asylum/refugees should be well-defined in both the definition of what makes one and what to do in order to claim it.

 Too much of any one metal into the melting pot at once won't smelt right.

while there are some people who want completely open borders, they are few.  there is a middle ground between taking infants away from mothers to be literally lost in an ad hoc system, and selecting the very best rapists and murderers that the brown countries have to offer and installing them as janitors in elementary schools.  it sounds like there was a ruckus at the border near Tijuana today.  I still don't like that we were launching tear gas at migrants.  Trump has been creating a hysteria around a migrant caravan, the likes of which isn't all that unusual, and so this Thanksgiving week we get Brown Sunday in addition to Black Friday.

[TexArcher 37506]

8 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

I think it's fantastic that people are passionate about letting anyone in the country who wants in without any sort of process or concern for process.

Who said that?

[Celery Man 20881]

for sure a big and complicated problem.  i think it should include a worker visa program that allows people to come here to work and then go back home, it should include the correct resources to process asylum claims in a timely and honest fashion, and it should include the idea that we are America, and that is supposed to mean something.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19092]

for sure a big and complicated problem.  i think it should include a worker visa program that allows people to come here to work and then go back home, it should include the correct resources to process asylum claims in a timely and honest fashion, and it should include the idea that we are America, and that is supposed to mean something.

Check out the originally proposed immigration reforms Bush tried to get done in 2007. And I mean the ones before the GOP forced the cut down of number of guest worker permits. That original proposal was a hell of a good start. Too bad the extremists on the right and the left fucked it up.

[Celery Man 20881]

 

2 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

I think this is a wonderful idea, but didn't Germany try this with the Turks and basically people just ignored it and "overstayed" the visa and just became defacto citizens (illegal immigrants)? 

That's probably right.  I would say for sure nortenos coming in to Texas to do manual labor would be more likely to go back home to their families rather than stay, but that's not the whole story and it would be great if the government could use facts and thought to facilitate positive outcomes rather than try to punish problems that can't be punished away (since they are focused on riling up their base rather than solving any problems).

[SaucyJack 3487]

8 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I'm a citizen.

This Fed Judge is a citizen, too.  Trump sees him as less than, though.

Quote

Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee for president, escalated his unprecedented verbal attacks on Federal District Judge Gonzalo Curiel on Thursday night. In an interview with the Wall Street Journal, Trump claimed the judge could not fairly preside over the Trump University cases because of Curiel’s “Mexican heritage.” (Curiel is from Indiana; his parents are Mexican immigrants.) “I’m building a wall, it’s an inherent conflict of interest,” he added.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/donald-trump-gonzalo-curiel/485636/

 

[Michael Knight 12878]

23 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I'm a citizen.

Why

[SaucyJack 3487]

5 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I was asked why do I have the right to be here.  I answered it.  It was a retarded question.  

 

I know but the kids and moms and all so.let them in.  There are probably 4 billion people we could let in under some of your criteria. 

Not my criteria, but maybe Christ's.

[Michael Knight 12878]

2 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

Google legal ways to become a citizen.  I qualify for one of those reasons.

Google legal ways to seek asylum. 

[Brian Fantana 6667]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

That's why we have a separation of church and state. People can be compassionate and give all they like.  That has nothing to do with people attempting to break federal law.  I fond it funny that democrats love the open border concept (and they do), but don't seem to give as much attention to the people with issues right here in our own borders, our own citizens, our own veterans, etc.

A) It's cute that you actually believe that considering it's next to impossible (probably actually impossible if you consider the presidency alone) to get elected in this country if you don't profess your love of god in every other breath. 

B) Nobody credible or smart wants open borders just shut the fuck up with that strawman anyway. 

C) Nobody on either side does jack shit for any of those issues but it's funny that you never call out Republicans for it.

[Captainant 27403]

Interesting that they would decide to close this major border crossing at the exact time Russia is opening fire on Ukrainian ships and therefore diverting most US media attention.

[NowThis 931]

were the migrants on Mexican soil when fired upon? I'm a bit confused regarding that tract of land, which seemed all cemented and dugout such as for rainfall/flood management, is that the US or Mexico?

Edited November 26, 2018 by NowThis

[Js1 85085]

 

[CooterBrown 17901]

[DixonHur 11154]

7 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Google legal ways to seek asylum. 

Is one of those ways storming the border?

Again, let's be crystal clear, while many of these people are fleeing danger in their home countries, the vast majority are not seeking asylum.  They are economic migrants.  If they truly wanted asylum they would have applied for it when they crossed into Mexico.

I have no problem allowing "brown" people into America, in fact, I welcome it, but there has to be a process.  Otherwise, why even have borders?

One thing we can probably all agree is that currently our process sucks and needs reform.  The problem is that both sides are so entrenched that it'll be nearly impossible to make any progress until one or both sides cave a little.  Which in the political climate of today is a sign of weekness.

IMHO, I think the Dems need to budge on the issue of border security.  The reason has nothing to do with the wall, or separating children from their parents (both of which I'm against), but because they need moderate Republican and independent votes to win elections under the current gerrymandered electoral map.  Most everyone outside the left of center Dems agrees that border security is important, but right now the Dems are catering to left and trying to influence the Hispanic vote.  I don't think that's a sustainable plan.

[Captainant 27403]

23 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

One thing we can probably all agree is that currently our process sucks and needs reform.  The problem is that both sides are so entrenched that it'll be nearly impossible to make any progress until one or both sides cave a little.  Which in the political climate of today is a sign of weekness.

What if I told you trump and co have had his wall a year ago but welched on the deal?

Edit: holy autocorrect mangle

Edited November 26, 2018 by Captainant

[Js1 85085]

Don't turn this into "wah, muh Christianity is under attack too!," you stale crouton.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Js1

[Brian Fantana 6667]

Maybe if you didn't take every single solitary opportunity to whine like a bitch made pussy about people being irreverent to your religion as if they are somehow obligated to do otherwise then maybe people would stop mocking you. 

[DixonHur 11154]

2 hours ago, Captainant said:

What if I told you trump and co have had his wall a year ago but welched on the deal?

Edit: holy autocorrect mangle

Not sure what you're getting at.  I'm opposed to the wall.  

Real immigration reform that provides guest worker visas, and punishes employers who hire illegals, people who rent to illegals, etc... would be way more effective and cost nothing.  

A giant wall is a waste of money that people will just go over or under.

[David Dennison 18646]

 

3 hours ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

* Atheists and people who mock Jesus and Christians, and routinely take scripture out of context, love to then validate and use scripture to try and advance their political points.

To be fair, Christians routinely take other religious writings out of context. See: the Koran.

[David Dennison 18646]

1 minute ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Here is the thing...

I paid $30 to cram inside a 1970's, rat-trap like tram and rode it for 7 minutes to the top of the St. Louis Arch Gateway to the West. Once there, there were tiny windows you could look out of and you can see a dirty river on one side and a baseball stadium on the other. 

And this piece of crap landmark is considered world-class and an awesome use of tourism time (and revenue generator with tourism dollars). It's laughably bad, but the Chinese Nationals in my tour group ate it up.

Now, just imagine *lowers the projector from the ceiling as the lights dim*:

Trump's Great WALL of AMERICA

• When was the last national park or landmark? 9/11 ground zero? That's too long and plus I like landmarks that don't get captured attacked or in remembrance of us losing.
• The storyboard is basically a windy wall, but the brick is rotating Red brick, white brick and blue brick and it's TWICE the size of the Great Wall of China (cucks). 
• Will offer residential penthouse on top floor of the wall. You can throw your rubbish out on the Mexico side. Fashion forward boutiques with HECHO en MEXICO costs but at Hong Kong designs (Trump clothing) will pepper the ground floor along with various Tex-Mex food options
• Open 24/7 for tours
• Museum of Trump's wins and presidency. Not having a library, but a full on museum.
• National GOP/Trump merch for sale
• Proceeds go to Trump off shore banks Non Profit
• Lasting legacy and cherry on top of a lifetime of real estate development 
• Mexico Middle class Americans will pay for it.

There's never going to be a wall, mainly because of all of the private property on the border, particularly in Texas. It would take decades to condemn all of that property.

[Brisketexan 104537]

1 hour ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

I don't care if people mock me. My goodness, you people have aptitude problems.

My only point was that people mock scripture/Jesus and are atheists and people who believe Christianity to be an invalid belief system on one hand.

Then on the other hand, use it (with no real knowledge of it and horribly misquoting and taking out of context) and validate it to bolster their political points.

If it's easier for you smooth-brained folk, let's just pretend I left the last bullet point off. 

A point that is, as they say in both the hinterlands and the cities, utter bullshit.  This Jesuit-educated poster, raised and schooled in a life of faith, is calling bullshit.

Quote

What does the Bible say about how we're supposed to treat migrants and refugees? It's clear: Welcome them. Not welcome them when it's convenient to you, when they have papers, when you can afford it or when there's no risk involved to you. No, according to both the Old and the New Testaments: Welcome them. #Caravan #Exodus

Fr. James Martin, S.J.

If one of these families knocked on my door tonight, asking for help, my obligation per the gospel would be pretty clear and unambiguous: invite them in, feed them and shelter them.  Maybe that would make me uncomfortable.  Maybe it would cost me money.  Living the gospel isn't supposed to make you comfortable.  It's actually quite likely to make you UNcomfortable.  

Go on about your business, discuss immigration policy all you want.  But if you ever want to wave the banner of Christ when you do so, you should just be aware that it says a lot of shit that's inconsistent with even MODERATE views on immigration (which makes sense -- Christianity is some radical shit.  The empire may co-opt it for political purposes, but the empire hasn't re-written the gospels, and they are full of some radical shit).

[hayden_horn 11360]

why don't we just let them in?

we are in control of their status.

let them in, figure out if they are asylum seekers, and let them seek asylum. 

let them in.

why not? why is this so complicated?

oh...right.

[RDCanecutter 26246]

The solution doesn't lie at our border. It lies hundreds of miles north and south of it.

North: We need fucking asshole lawyers to quit snuffing cocaine up their noses. Talkin to you, Surly.

South: We need Samuel Jackson from Pulp Fiction to round up every politician in Honduras, Guatemala, El Savador, and Nicaragua, sequester them in a hotel room in San Jose Costa Rica, and alternate between slapping the dogshit out of them, and appealing to their fragile macho pride by forcing them to look out the window at a Central American country that does NOT suck, why do YOU suck, TELL ME BITCH. TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO NOT TO SUCK.

But seriously, until Honduras doesn't suck, this goes on and on. Maybe we could put the Chiquita Banana back in charge, or take some pressure off of them by rerouting cocaine shipments back through Florida.

[Js1 85085]

25 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

 

To be fair, Christians routinely take other religious writings out of context. See: the Koran.

"Everyone who calls me hypocritical by quoting scripture is an atheist." - the newest book by the religious right

[Dahobbs 17420]

21 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

I actually agree with everything you wrote here and I won't claim to know or judge the character of your heart and what you profess or believe, but I can tell you that if a random family knocked on my door tonight I too would see it as an obligation to help. I have been very honest and have admitted my personal struggle with immigration because isn't someone knocking on your door and a group of people leaving shitholes at the border basically the same thing (knocking on the door of the country)?

Because I'm a wicked sinner, the idea of a bunch of shithole people from shithole countries coming in and stinking up the place rankles my upper-middle class nostrils and white privilege sensibilities. It's uncomfortable and aesthetically undesirable to me, as you say, and I think that it is wrong to be moved that way.

I guess ultimately what I'm saying here is that the honest thing here would be to not give a shit about political or material concerns and just let the people in and not worry too much about the consequences. I've been unable to separate what I think I know of myself and the world and this simple idea, until pretty much now, and I think it's a problem of humility. I need to humble myself and I think you have begun the process here. Thank you Mister Brisket!

As I stated I don't know you what you really do believe, but I generally think you probably do your best to know Jesus Christ and in that way I think your words weighed on me differently than those (my original point) who embrace and live an outwardly sinful life and embrace blasphemy.

Wow. This post. Just wow. Maybe you should go sit over there for a while. 

[Brian Fantana 6667]

Unreal.

[Js1 85085]

Uhhhhhhh whose the real shithole person here? Because I think I know.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I’ve been trying to tell y’all.

[Dahobbs 17420]

Just now, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

I guess, JS1. We all have opinions about people and stuff.

But are we allowed to call Honduras a shithole again or admit that "President T" might have been right about that (as thousands pour out of a country teeming with violence and whatever worthy of political asylum and refugee status as it's presently defined)?

Yeah, you need to stop and re-examine all your values. You have a made several wrong turns. 

[Js1 85085]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, you need to stop and re-examine all your values. You have a made several wrong turns. 

What if he took a wrong turn and slammed into "President T"'s border wall?

[Dahobbs 17420]

8 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Uhhhhhhh whose the real shithole person here? Because I think I know.

I am pretty sure he would have called Jesus a shit hole person. A poor guy who hung around prostitutes, lepers, and the downtrodden probably seemed pretty shit-holish at that time. 

[Dahobbs 17420]

Just now, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Hey it could happen!

All joking aside, I'm really feeling good about humbling myself today. Thanks to all!

I am not sure you understand what humbling yourself means. Hint: it isn't assuming your superiority to all the heathens and shit-hole persons. 

[pyrohornIII 4805]

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

There's never going to be a wall, mainly because of all of the private property on the border, particularly in Texas. It would take decades to condemn all of that property.

https://cardsagainsthumanitystopsthewall.com/

Quote

Right now, the federal government is working to pour billions of your tax dollars into building a wall between the United States and Mexico, despite the fact that walls have been militarily obsolete since the advent of gunpowder.

Last month, 150,000 people paid us $15 to save America with six days of incredible stunts and surprises. For Day One, we used some of the money to purchase a plot of vacant land on the US/Mexico border and retain a law firm specializing in eminent domain to make it as time-consuming and expensive as possible for Trump to build his preposterous wall.

The whole legal process can take quite a long time — who knows, maybe longer than the current president will be in office? For however long it takes, we are ready for a protracted resistance to any attempts by the government to build a wall on this land.

– Our lawyers at Graves, Dougherty, Hearon, & Moody

 

[zork 629]

Just seeking asylum, that's all:

[gsoda3 3234]

Unreal.

Uhhhhhhh whose the real shithole person here? Because I think I know.

I’ve been trying to tell y’all.

So all y'all better than he is right? Pots and kettles and whatnot.

[SimonBolivar 10910]

5 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

So all y'all better than he is right? 

Clearly

[Js1 85085]

I mean, I'm just a godless heathen for calling him out for his hypocrisy. 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Js1

[David Dennison 18646]

17 minutes ago, zork said:

Just seeking asylum, that's all:

That wall must be made in America.

[lemonlime 5503]

15 hours ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

Yea I hear you. I'm honestly torn on the whole thing. I'm for responsible immigration reform (whatever that even means) in the sense that I think it's ridiculous that we have treat the children the way we do but I also can't help thinking it's ridiculous these parents put their children in that situation knowing that they are messing around with a bunch of people who don't care about their children. 

 

We don't have to do anything. We choose to treat the children the way we do.  A choice you apparently support (while trying to claim moral high ground).

[DixonHur 11154]

I think you're conflating two different issues.  One is what to do with asylum seekers once they are in the system.  The other is how to treat people who are literally breaking through the border illegally.

I'm for keeping families together in the former situation, and firing tear gas, water canons, etc., for the later.

If that makes me a heartless bastard, then so be it.  

Contrary to popular Surly belief, there is an asylum system in place.  You may think it's antiquated and inefficient, to which I agree, but it does exist and should be adhered to by both the US and the asylum seekers until Congress gets off it's ass and changes it.

Edited November 26, 2018 by DixonHur

[Dahobbs 17420]

17 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

I think you're conflating two different issues.  One is what to do with asylum seekers once they are in the system.  The other is how to treat people who are literally breaking through the border illegally.

I'm for keeping families together in the former situation, and firing tear gas, water canons, etc., for the later.

If that makes me a heartless bastard, then so be it.  

Contrary to popular Surly belief, there is an asylum system in place.  You may think it's antiquated and inefficient, to which I agree, but it does exist and should be adhered to by both the US and the asylum seekers until Congress gets off it's ass and changes it.

Agreed on this to an extent. But I'm confused by one point: Trump is literally preventing people from using the legally required method of claiming asylum by, among other things, closing the points of entry. While that may not justify breaking in, it sure as hell has to be considered when judging the actions of both the asylum seekers and the boarder patrol. Of course, I also take any statements made by this administration regarding immigrants and asylum seekers with about 20 spoonfuls of salt. You don't get to start a panic and then claim credit for breaking it up, which is what appears to me happened here. 

[pyrohornIII 4805]

19 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

We don't have to do anything. We choose to treat the children the way we do.  A choice you apparently support (while trying to claim moral high ground).

We choose to treat the children and families like this as a means of deterrence.  So before they even start, they think about what they are going into.  Says a lot about what they are trying to escape.   America and the way they know they will be treated is still the lesser evil.   So they try.  What should they do?  Leave their kids behind?  Who takes care of them then?  Will they even survive?  Say they get in and accepted as asylum refugees, how long are they going to have to work to pay the travel costs of bringing their kids here to them, not to mention the legal and governmental fees for doing that?  So yeah, they don't have much choice on bringing them into this mess or not. 

 

Then you have this group who denies what they are escaping, or claims others are jumping into the caravan for an easy entry, not really asylum seekers.  Maybe there are a few.  Take them in and figure out later through due process who stays and who doesn't.

I think it is damned sad that the whole country of 300 million people is at each other's throats about this group of 8,000 unarmed people trying to make a better life for themselves and their families.  It shows a total lack of self awareness for us to be willing to gas them, instead of fixing the system that handles this.  We are no longer the nation of problem solvers. 

Nobody sane wants open borders.  Background checks, character references, personal interviews to determine education, skill, and health levels should be done.  But then I find it ironic that those who fear immigrants also fear background checks and other measures to insure responsible gun purchases.   But they need those guns to protect themselves from the immigrants, right?   MS 13 and all. 

Sorry, but it blows my mind how this admin stirs all this shit up and doesn't even attempt to find a long term solution.  Just shut the borders down, fuckall the people who make a legitimate living trading or working across the border.   No, we need to set up a spectacle so we can look strong, while Putin fucks over his neighbors.  Red herrings are this admin's specialty.

Not to mention the Russian oligarchs sending the wives of their henchmen here to have anchor babies.  But hey, they pay well, right?

[DixonHur 11154]

If Trump we're to close the border to asylum seekers that would be illegal.  He's talked/tweeted about doing so, but he hasn't.  San Isidro was closed for 5 hours because a 500+ mob tried to force their way across.  

[hayden_horn 11360]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Agreed on this to an extent. But I'm confused by one point: Trump is literally preventing people from using the legally required method of claiming asylum by, among other things, closing the points of entry. While that may not justify breaking in, it sure as hell has to be considered when judging the actions of both the asylum seekers and the boarder patrol. Of course, I also take any statements made by this administration regarding immigrants and asylum seekers with about 20 spoonfuls of salt. You don't get to start a panic and then claim credit for breaking it up, which is what appears to me happened here. 

yeah, congratulations on putting out the fire you started.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19092]

I think you're conflating two different issues.  One is what to do with asylum seekers once they are in the system.  The other is how to treat people who are literally breaking through the border illegally.
I'm for keeping families together in the former situation, and firing tear gas, water canons, etc., for the later.
If that makes me a heartless bastard, then so be it.  
Contrary to popular Surly belief, there is an asylum system in place.  You may think it's antiquated and inefficient, to which I agree, but it does exist and should be adhered to by both the US and the asylum seekers until Congress gets off it's ass and changes it.

This is where I am.

[pyrohornIII 4805]

4 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

If Trump we're to close the border to asylum seekers that would be illegal.  He's talked/tweeted about doing so, but he hasn't.  San Isidro was closed for 5 hours because a 500+ mob tried to force their way across.  

They closed it after the "mob" reacted by trying to breach the border.  But what no one is reporting is what was going on before this group made their run at the border. 

It is not like they walked up to a normally functioning border crossing.   Our border patrol and military were adding barricades and shutting down lanes early in the morning hours before these people broke through it.  Do you not think with all the talk trump and co has been tossing around, that they might perceive the added barricades, concertina wire and such as a closed border crossing, or in the midst of being closed?  You come that far to be treated fairly by the country, in spite of the rumors you hear that begin with trump and his followers and you too might go a little crazy and storm the fort when it appears that you have been dead ended. 

So to say that these people came up and assaulted a normally operating crossing is a bit disingenuous.    But no, instead of sending a team of interpreters into the caravan to explain things, we just keep adding fuel to the fire. 

https://fox5sandiego.com/2018/11/19/report-all-northbound-lanes-of-san-ysidro-port-of-entry-closed/

Quote

SAN DIEGO -- All northbound lanes at the San Ysidro Port of Entry were closed early Monday morning to allow border agents to add more protective barriers, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection officials.

At about 3:15 a.m., the San Ysidro Port of Entry could be seen lined with members of the military blocking many northbound lanes.

"[We] have temporarily suspended vehicle processing for northbound travelers at the San Ysidro port of entry Monday morning to position additional port hardening materials," according to border officials. "After the materials are in position, CBP will resume processing northbound vehicle traffic in select lanes at the border crossing."

Southbound lanes leading into Mexico and the Pedestrian West facility were not affected by the closure.

As of 6:30 a.m., lanes reopened and traffic was slowly moving into San Diego.

"CBP is again processing northbound vehicle traffic at San Ysidro with select lanes remaining closed. The San Ysidro Pedestrian East facility is also open for northbound traveler processing," according to CBP spokeswoman Jackie Wasiluk's release sent at 7:20 a.m.

The lanes were closed to install additional port hardening materials at the port of entry, to include jersey barriers and concertina wire, to prepare for the potential arrival of thousands of people migrating in a caravan heading towards the border of the United States, according to CBP spokesman Mike Niezgoda.

"In the early morning hours, CBP officials received reports of groups of persons from the caravan gathering in the city of Tijuana for a possible attempt or attempts to rush illegally through the port of entry instead of presenting themselves as required to a CBP officer," Niezgoda said.

People stand around at the San Diego Ysidro Port of Entry early Monday, November 19, 2018 as border officials "position additional hardening materials." (Photo: Maggie Ruiz-Hernandez)

Pete Flores, director of CBP Field Operations, said his agents will not allow unlawful entry into the U.S. and they needed to get ahead of a potential flood of people coming to the border.

"Waiting until a large group of persons mass at the border to attempt an illegal crossing is too late for us; we need to be prepared prior to when they arrive at the border crossing," Flores said.

Tensions remained high in Tijuana and at the U.S.- Mexico border Sunday, where thousands of members of a migrant caravan began arriving in the past week planning to seek asylum in the United States

About 2,400 migrants, mostly from Central America, have arrived in Tijuana since last Sunday.

People stand around at the San Diego Ysidro Port of Entry early Monday, November 19, 2018 as border officials "position additional hardening materials." (Photo: Maggie Ruiz-Hernandez)

On Sunday, two dueling demonstrations were planned -- one demanding the migrants not engage in protests that can close roadways or confrontations with American officials that can cause the closure of ports of entry, and the other criticizing what some perceive as discrimination against the migrants.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents have slowly filtered through asylum claims, accepting roughly 100 each day and some from as long as six weeks ago. It is unknown how long the majority of immigrants will have to wait to have their asylum claims managed.

The key point is they were preparing for the mob they thought might come, not reacting to it.  Seems to me they incited what they feared by their actions.  Could it be they got their desired result for making this much larger than it was. 

I wouldn't put it past this admin to have infiltrated the caravan and planted the seed about the border rush.  Planting agents is pretty russian, right?

Has there ever been such a border rush on the US before?