Caravan

[FondrenRoad 4,378]

Just now, tjhooker said:

The nazis are coming the nazis are coming!  What tired rhetoric.

Yeah man.  You aren't coming.  You're already here, Nazi.

[DDD Dad 14,332]

1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

The nazis are coming the nazis are coming!  What tired rhetoric.

OK I'll engage just once.  The nazis are here.  They've always been here.  They were shamed into the shadows for several decades, but many have become emboldened by the wave of nationalism and lean towards authoritarianism that has swept the the world over the last few years.  If you don't see it, you're not looking or you're a part of it.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

Here one comes now.....

 

But, you know.  Good people on both sides.  Here he comes!

[David Dennison 18,854]

9 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

The nazis are coming the nazis are coming!  What tired rhetoric.

Shuts down and prevents any further discussion as it did here.

Are you seriously arguing that racism isn't a problem for the right in this country?

[David Dennison 18,854]

1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

They have always been here in very small groups.  A collection of misfits and loons.  That probably will never change.  Fortunately, they represent a fraction of a fraction of a percent. 

Straight up racists, however, represent a much larger percentage of the Republican Party voting base.

[Kyle 207]

19 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

What does that matter? I think you are confused as to who thinks this caravan is a big deal. No one is saying all these people deserve asylum, there simply isn't any way to know that. The whole point is that this is a pretty typical occurrence and is not a big deal. Process them and deal with it. Only one group is making this more than it is, and it is the group demonizing a group of people. Odd that you can't see that. 

It matters because ostensibly the story is "these people are seeking asylum." Mexico is offering asylum. If they simply stay in Mexico, everyone wins: the migrants receive the asylum they seek, Mexico receives productive citizens, and the U.S. does not face any risk that there is a bad person entering the country. Feels like a simple solution that meets everyone's needs.

[Dahobbs 17,534]

Just now, Kyle said:

It matters because ostensibly the story is "these people are seeking asylum." Mexico is offering asylum. If they simply stay in Mexico, everyone wins: the migrants receive the asylum they seek, Mexico receives productive citizens, and the U.S. does not face any risk that there is a bad person entering the country. Feels like a simple solution that meets everyone's needs.

There is nothing in law that obligates a person to seek asylum in any specific country. They may prefer the US and under our laws and treaties, we are required to evaluate that claim. It is true that some countries apply a test whereby they can send a person to a third party country that would grant aslym (although I am not sure the US has that in its law). But even then, the claim must be evaluated on an individual basis. So, let's just do it. 

[Kyle 207]

54 minutes ago, OatmealRaisinCookie said:

What has happened here my goodness.

This has always been a topic when facts and logic are not on one's side - appeal to emotion. Why discuss a complex issue in a rational way when you can just make hyperbolic ad homs agains anyone who disagrees with you? Much easier than actually engaging intellectually.

[hayden_horn 11,362]

13 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

The nazis are coming the nazis are coming!  What tired rhetoric.

Shuts down and prevents any further discussion as it did here.

nah, it's posters like yourself that shut down the discussion.

before you showed up, there was a bit of back and forth about the issue.  you know, the actual issue at hand - the caravan, our immigration policy, what is acceptable, and, yes, some talk about how nazi germany transitioned normal germans into those willing to put up with death camps. it's not a short journey. normal citizens don't start loading bodies into ovens. 

however, if you cannot take a look around, at trump's rhetoric, how he demonized people south of our border who are seeking a better life here - that rhetoric alone has a tendency to numb people to what is happening around us.

we have tacitly accepted the separation of families policy. we have a growing tent city of children in west texas guarded by who knows, because who needs to worry about background checks when adults are put in charge of children? 

concerned citizens, looking at what is happening, worry that this path we tread may have a troubling end. and to a certain subset of our population, that's just fine, because they are lawbreaking animals.

you've been banned for trolling before; why don't you actually discuss the issue? don't "but obama" it.

don't pretend this shit is normal. it's all ramped up because of trump, his words, his actions.

immigration policy has been an issue my whole life, and i'm a man this year, i'm 40. why don't we discuss ways to solve it instead of hand waving "oh my god, they are making nazi comparisons." you're goddamned right people are doing that. once again, we won't end up at death camps (i don't believe), but the fact of the matter, the status quo is troubling indeed. the lean to authoritarianism is concerning. it is trump, and trump alone, ordering these policies.

[Kyle 207]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

There is nothing in law that obligates a person to seek asylum in any specific country. They may prefer the US and under our laws and treaties, we are required to evaluate that claim. It is true that some countries apply a test whereby they can send a person to a third party country that would grant aslym (although I am not sure the US has that in its law). But even then, the claim must be evaluated on an individual basis. So, let's just do it. 

Reasonably people can disagree, but it at least demonstrates the asylum argument is phony. They don't want asylum they want to come to the U.S. Better conversations start with honest and transparent conversations. I suspect part of the reason people do not trust each other politically is because of the disingenuous nature of the spin.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

2 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Reasonably people can disagree, but it at least demonstrates the asylum argument is phony. They don't want asylum they want to come to the U.S. Better conversations start with honest and transparent conversations. I suspect part of the reason people do not trust each other politically is because of the disingenuous nature of the spin.

They want asylum in a safe place.  The US is (for now) significantly safer than Mexico.  That's not exactly a shocking conclusion for a person to make.  I know that if I was running from my life from, say, Syria, the fact that I am relatively safer in Iraq doesn't exactly make Iraq a place I want my family to end up if their long-term safety is my goal.

That doesn't render the asylum argument "phony."  It actually bolsters it.

[David Dennison 18,854]

10 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I don't think the right is racist.  Are there extremist on both sides?  Are there racists in this country?  Absolutely.  To characterize conservatives as a group as racists I strongly disagree. 

The old both sides line. 

That's how you know you have a problem.

[Chrispy 132]

15 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Ah yes.  The Nazis goose stepped by the thousands in the streets immediately, and Jews were sent off to the gas chambers in 1933.  JFC just stop.  

Soon we’ll be too busy sweeping up the shattered glass of the lastest Kristallnacht to even notice Goebbels’ propaganda successfully taking root; our metamorphosis is almost complete Dad. 

[DDD Dad 14,332]

1 minute ago, Chrispy said:

Soon we’ll be too busy sweeping up the shattered glass of the lastest Kristallnacht to even notice Goebbels’ propaganda successfully taking root; our metamorphosis is almost complete Dad. 

[David Dennison 18,854]

1 minute ago, Chrispy said:

Soon we’ll be too busy sweeping up the shattered glass of the lastest Kristallnacht to even notice Goebbels’ propaganda successfully taking root; our metamorphosis is almost complete Dad. 

Or we'll just put children in cages as a matter of policy.

Whatever it takes.

[hayden_horn 11,362]

3 hours ago, tjhooker said:

why is this an issue now when it has been going on for years?

 

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

It's always been an issue.

 

2 hours ago, tjhooker said:

Please.  This was never a huge issue like the media is making it now.  There was never a CR thread with pages discussing it.  There werent countless stories by the media.  Try to be honest at least.

 

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

with 30 seconds of google-fu, i posted four articles about this issue and obama.

this has been an issue since central america has gotten destabilized.

but i'm sure, if you took JUST a brief moment to think about it, you might understand why it has become such a prominent issue.

just a quick moment.

i'll even give you a hint: it involves the leader of the free world.

 

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Do a little research.

 

2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

There were nazis during Obama too. But you didn’t care then.

 

2 hours ago, tjhooker said:

Obama was a nazi too?  We gotta stop electing nazis.

 

2 hours ago, tjhooker said:

Y'all remember that thread a few years back on CR complaining about the US tear gassing people trying to cross the border?  Yeah, it was great.  Wait a minute it didn't exist. 

Also, because you found some stories on the internet does not mean there was this large media backlash.  In fact, until this happened I never knew we did that.  I am someone who reads and watches the news everyday.  Please stop saying it was just the same.

 

2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

We're not saying it was the same. We're saying there was intense criticism, which there was.

Donald Trump's racism and insistence on drawing attention to the matter for political purposes makes this different from the Obama administration.

 

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

nobody is saying it was just the same. are you intentionally trolling or are you just incapable of interacting with other human beings without being a twat?

we've been saying there was backlash. now everything is different. why? because trump, his aggressive rhetoric, and his asshole actions. 

 

1 hour ago, tjhooker said:

has nothing to do with the liberal media bias at all.  come on.

i would argue that this is not an honest attempt at communicating views about an issue. the giveaway is in your fourth post in the thread there where you shift the goal posts to "Please stop saying it was just the same."

that's one of two things in my mind: trolling to inflame the discussion by moving your position, or dishonesty in argument. 

another big tell is that you don't ever acknowledge that you moved the goal posts, despite consecutive posts pointing out your fallacy. instead you shift to the "liberal media" trope, which is another troll giveaway. you don't address dennison and my both pointing out that it is trump driving the difference in how this issue is viewed.

given your history of spamming the board with stupid insults like "soy boy," i'd also make the argument that you don't have much benefit of the doubt. but i'm going to give it to you for now.

 

[workswithseed 2,102]

5 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

The Daddy of the Intellectual Dark Web talking Hitler and... see if it any of this seems to resonate right now...

 

Yes, cause Peterson hates the Jews so much that he's talking to Eathan Klien in that who is a Jew, and Ben Shapiro as well. 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by workswithseed

[Chrispy 132]

13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Or we'll just put children in cages as a matter of policy.

Whatever it takes.

Well, for illegal immigrants. Send them your paycheck and help fund a luxurious holding center, nobody is stopping you. 

[bad_teammate 13,194]

7 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Yes, cause Peterson hates the Jews so much that he's talking to Eathan Klien in that who is a Jew, and Ben Shapiro as well. 

Did someone call Daddy a Nazi or anti-Semite?

That video is fun, because he tells on himself (like he always does). He says in the second half of his arguments that his opponents cannot deal with his arguments so they try to categorize him out by shoving him to the ideological extreme... OK... but how did Daddy initially characterize his opponents? He dismisses them as far-left extremists.

And at the end, he is OUTRAGED at Hitler being used as a casual comparison ... but 30 seconds earlier he was associating "tens of millions" of deaths under Marxism with his ideological opponents.

He's not a Nazi or anti-Semite. He's an idiot.

[seven 1,367]

The problem is that you're an idiot and have no clue that you're an idiot 

[bad_teammate 13,194]

1 minute ago, seven said:

The problem is that you're an idiot and have no clue that you're an idiot 

Nailed it.

[David Dennison 18,854]

14 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

Well, for illegal immigrants. Send them your paycheck and help fund a luxurious holding center, nobody is stopping you. 

Nah. I prefer to vote for politicians who ensure that you'll be paying for it.

[David Dennison 18,854]

Jordan Peterson is so over.

[ChickenSandwich 9,833]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Nailed it.

Awesome when socks reply to themselves muttiple times on one page lol

[DDD Dad 14,332]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Yes, cause Peterson hates the Jews so much that he's talking Eathan Klien in that who is a new, and Ben Shapiro as well. 

 

 

[workswithseed 2,102]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Did someone call Daddy a Nazi or anti-Semite?

That video is fun, because he tells on himself (like he always does). He says in the second half of his arguments that his opponents cannot deal with his arguments so they try to categorize him out by shoving him to the ideological extreme... OK... but how did Daddy initially characterize his opponents? He dismisses them as far-left extremists.

And at the end, he is OUTRAGED at Hitler being used as a casual comparison ... but 30 seconds earlier he was associating "tens of millions" of deaths under Marxism with his ideological opponents.

He's not a Nazi or anti-Semite. He's an idiot.

So then why bring him up at all in this thread if you weren't calling him Nazi. where he talks about Hitler, where Nazi is being thrown around. Where you say "see if any this resonates with right now." How else am I supposed to take it?

Can he not talk about what was going on through post war Germany and Hitler's mind? 

 

 

[DDD Dad 14,332]

5 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

I can't believe I am going to respond to all these out of context quotes.  I have nothing else better to do right now so here we go.  

  3 hours ago, tjhooker said:

why is this an issue now when it has been going on for years?

Was in reference to the media not making it a big deal until now.  Why?

  3 hours ago, David Dennison said:

It's always been an issue.

 

  3 hours ago, tjhooker said:

Please.  This was never a huge issue like the media is making it now.  There was never a CR thread with pages discussing it.  There werent countless stories by the media.  Try to be honest at least.

See Above

  3 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

with 30 seconds of google-fu, i posted four articles about this issue and obama.

this has been an issue since central america has gotten destabilized.

but i'm sure, if you took JUST a brief moment to think about it, you might understand why it has become such a prominent issue.

just a quick moment.

i'll even give you a hint: it involves the leader of the free world.

Read more  

Read more  

 

  3 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Do a little research.

 

  2 hours ago, Celery Man said:

There were nazis during Obama too. But you didn’t care then.

 

  2 hours ago, tjhooker said:

Obama was a nazi too?  We gotta stop electing nazis.

Once again, see above.  Making a statement as to why the media and CR is making this a big deal now when it has been going on for years?  Why no issue with people of CR before now and most media outlets in any meaningful way.  Only correlation is now it is under Trump.  Same actions vastly unequal response from media and CR collective.

  2 hours ago, tjhooker said:

Y'all remember that thread a few years back on CR complaining about the US tear gassing people trying to cross the border?  Yeah, it was great.  Wait a minute it didn't exist. 

Also, because you found some stories on the internet does not mean there was this large media backlash.  In fact, until this happened I never knew we did that.  I am someone who reads and watches the news everyday.  Please stop saying it was just the same.

Same as above

  2 hours ago, David Dennison said:

We're not saying it was the same. We're saying there was intense criticism, which there was.

Donald Trump's racism and insistence on drawing attention to the matter for political purposes makes this different from the Obama administration.

 

  2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

nobody is saying it was just the same. are you intentionally trolling or are you just incapable of interacting with other human beings without being a twat?

we've been saying there was backlash. now everything is different. why? because trump, his aggressive rhetoric, and his asshole actions. 

LOL it is CR where counter views are immediately labeled being nazi.  How do y'all not see the hypocrisy?

 

Maybe you should start a thread in Bellmont.

[workswithseed 2,102]

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

 

What? Did she say she hates Jews at some point?

[DixonHur 11,296]

41 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

They want asylum in a safe place.  The US is (for now) significantly safer than Mexico. 

Not arguing the merits of their asylum applications, but this isn't necessarily accurate. 

In terms of murder rate, yes, but that's really a small percentage of overall crime.  If you look at all crime, and even more specifically all violent crime, the US worse.

Link

[DDD Dad 14,332]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

What? Did she say she hates Jews at some point?

Calling someone a "Jew" (especially the way she said it) can carry a perjorative implication.  If you don't understand that I don't know what to tell you.

Also, I was highlighting the identity argument you made by highlighting that "he's talking Eathan Klien in that who is a new [sic], and Ben Shapiro as well"

Edited November 28, 2018 by DDD Dad

[workswithseed 2,102]

1 minute ago, DDD Dad said:

Calling someone a "Jew" (especially the way she said it) can carry a perjorative implication.  If you don't understand that I don't know what to tell you.

Can you read minds? Should I have said Jewish Americans? 

[DDD Dad 14,332]

Just now, workswithseed said:

Can you read minds? Should I have said Jewish Americans? 

Now you're just trolling. 

[Chrispy 132]

14 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Nah. I prefer to vote for politicians who ensure that you'll be paying for it.

No problem, guess the cages stay put. 

[workswithseed 2,102]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

Now you're just trolling. 

What are you talking about? You quote me and show me that video, so you're implying I said Jew in a harmful way, I ask you how I should phrase ethnic Jews in a less derogatory way then you call me a troll? 

[DixonHur 11,296]

32 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

Well, for illegal immigrants. Send them your paycheck and help fund a luxurious holding center, nobody is stopping you. 

Honestly, if you're OK with separating innocent children from their parents and putting them in cages, then you've got some major issues that go WAY beyond party affiliation.

[DDD Dad 14,332]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

What are you talking about? You quote me and show me that video, so you're implying I said Jew in a harmful way, I ask you how I should phrase ethnic Jews in a less derogatory way then you call me a troll? 

Gaslighting too.

I never implied you said anything in a harmful way.  I pointed out the irony of your argument that somehow Peterson can't have Nazi views/tendencies "he's talking Eathan Klien in that who is a [Jew], and Ben Shapiro as well" by linking the well known and ridiculed video of Roy Moore's wife claiming she can't be anti-Semitic because she has a "Jew lawyer."  

Sorry for the thread drift, folks.  I'll stop responding to troll posts.

Edited November 28, 2018 by DDD Dad

[ChickenSandwich 9,833]

We need a truly democratic immigration system. Each year at tax time give each American family/citizen the chance to “opt in” to sponsor an immigrant. If they opt in they understand that their tax return refund would be used to pay for immigrant welfare or 10% of their income (whichever is greater). We then base the number of Legal immigrants admitted each year by the number of American willing to support it with their own money. 

We might see a surge in Legal immigration numbers (up from 1 million) if we have enough people to “opt in”. Let’s see where Americans truly lie on immigration when it hits close to home and it’s tied to fiscal responsibility instead emanatioal ancticdotes. (But first that number would be subtracted for each new American citizen born to undocumented parents. 

How altruistic are you?

[Chrispy 132]

2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Honestly, if you're OK with separating innocent children from their parents and putting them in cages, then you've got some major issues that go WAY beyond party affiliation.

There’s no need to separate them from their parents, detain them together.

[DDD Dad 14,332]

1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

We need a truly democratic immigration system. Each year at tax time give each American family/citizen the chance to “opt in” to sponsor an immigrant. If they opt in they understand that their tax return refund would be used to pay for immigrant welfare or 10% of their income (whichever is greater). We then base the number of Legal immigrants admitted each year by the number of American willing to support it with their own money. 

We might see a surge in Legal immigration numbers (up from 1 million) if we have enough people to “opt in”. Let’s see where Americans truly lie on immigration when it hits close to home and it’s tied to fiscal responsibility instead emanatioal ancticdotes. (But first that number would be subtracted for each new American citizen born to undocumented parents. 

How altruistic are you?

Why not just let the (legal and illegal) immigrants contribute to welfare like they generally already do, by paying taxes on their own income?  The idea that illegal immigrants are overwhelming our welfare costs is simply false.

[workswithseed 2,102]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

Gaslighting too.

I never implied you said anything in a harmful way.  I pointed out the irony of your argument that somehow Peterson can't have Nazi views/tendencies "he's talking Eathan Klien in that who is a [Jew], and Ben Shapiro as well" by linking the well known and ridiculed video of Roy Moore's wife claiming she can't be anti-Semitic because she has a "Jew lawyer."  

If you had said something when I asked if she said anything antisemitic after that then that would have been helpful. 

I also showed where said he said doesn't like any identity politics on both sides. Nazi hate jews and think that German/whites are the true rulers of this world which is pretty identitarian. 

[ChickenSandwich 9,833]

3 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

Why not just let the (legal and illegal) immigrants contribute to welfare like they generally already do, by paying taxes on their own income?  The idea that illegal immigrants are overwhelming our welfare costs is simply false.

Based on what exactly?  Why is Tijuana not taking advantage of the economic gold mine?  

Texas and California have the worst public school systems. What is their common denominator?  They are left with the strain on resources to educate everyone regardless if f citizenship. These things don’t happen in a vacuum

[bad_teammate 13,194]

23 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

So then why bring him up at all in this thread if you weren't calling him Nazi. where he talks about Hitler, where Nazi is being thrown around. Where you say "see if any this resonates with right now." How else am I supposed to take it?

Can he not talk about what was going on through post war Germany and Hitler's mind? 

He can talk about whatever he wants. And so can I. It's fun how the marketplace of ideas works.

I linked his video and said this: "The Daddy of the Intellectual Dark Web talking Hitler and... see if it any of this seems to resonate right now..."

Listen to Peterson's interpretation of events and think about Trump. Not that "Trump = Hitler", but the power of a racist crowd over a politician trying to win favor and power.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

8 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

We need a truly democratic immigration system. Each year at tax time give each American family/citizen the chance to “opt in” to sponsor an immigrant. If they opt in they understand that their tax return refund would be used to pay for immigrant welfare or 10% of their income (whichever is greater). We then base the number of Legal immigrants admitted each year by the number of American willing to support it with their own money. 

We might see a surge in Legal immigration numbers (up from 1 million) if we have enough people to “opt in”. Let’s see where Americans truly lie on immigration when it hits close to home and it’s tied to fiscal responsibility instead emanatioal ancticdotes. (But first that number would be subtracted for each new American citizen born to undocumented parents. 

How altruistic are you?

Great proposal.  Fantastic.

Will your proposal also have a surcharge for all folks who do NOT opt in, to cover the additional costs of goods, rent, and services that they would pay but for immigrant labor?  The extra $2 per half gallon of OJ?  The extra $100 a month in your business lease for the added cost of the cleaning crew?  The extra $15k cost of your home for the added cost of the construction crew?  The extra $2 for your meal for the added cost of the kitchen staff?  That would seem to be a good choice to make.  I mean, if you want to have a REAL picture of the "costs" of immigrants.

[lemonlime 5,503]

While we're doing this, I want my money back for the troops Trump sent to the border on a stunt, the Iraq war, and to pay for ICE.  

[ChickenSandwich 9,833]

From the Congressional Budget Office (using an estimate of 11million illegal immigrants - this number is highly debatable and also estimated as high as 3+ million)

 

• "State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs";
• "The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions";
• "The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to them, the impact is modest, and most do not qualify for them"; and
• "Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs of necessities."

[David Dennison 18,854]

4 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

You know what is amazing?  I live in an area of the country with virtually 0 illegal immigrants.  You know who does those jobs?  White and black people.  You know what?  Things cost just the same if not cheaper.  It is a horrible argument to make because it just isnt the case.

Where do you live?

[David Dennison 18,854]

21 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

We need a truly democratic immigration system. Each year at tax time give each American family/citizen the chance to “opt in” to sponsor an immigrant. If they opt in they understand that their tax return refund would be used to pay for immigrant welfare or 10% of their income (whichever is greater). We then base the number of Legal immigrants admitted each year by the number of American willing to support it with their own money. 

We might see a surge in Legal immigration numbers (up from 1 million) if we have enough people to “opt in”. Let’s see where Americans truly lie on immigration when it hits close to home and it’s tied to fiscal responsibility instead emanatioal ancticdotes. (But first that number would be subtracted for each new American citizen born to undocumented parents. 

How altruistic are you?

Fine. Let's do that with the military, too. I'd like to opt out.

[ChickenSandwich 9,833]

It’s not the only thing to consider, but the public needs real transparent numbers so we can have honest and real dialogue about the impacts caused. 

Instead all we get are emotional snap shots designed to do anything but discuss realities of logistics and instead “won’t somebody think of he children”

hell, we have California suing to remove the simple question “are you a citizen” from the census. It’s so disingenuous it’s preposterous. 

[David Dennison 18,854]

13 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Based on what exactly?  Why is Tijuana not taking advantage of the economic gold mine?  

Texas and California have the worst public school systems. What is their common denominator?  They are left with the strain on resources to educate everyone regardless if f citizenship. These things don’t happen in a vacuum

Texas and California do not have the worst public school systems. Not even close.

[Brisketexan 105,095]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Where do you live?

It doesn't matter, it's a lie.  Hell, it doesn't address the fact that it doesn't matter if you live in Montana, your California-grown produce STILL comes from California, picked by migrant labor....as just ONE example.