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gsoda3

By gsoda3
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bad_teammate
bad_teammate

Immediate Situation: Welcome them with open arms. Invite them to participate productively in our society and economy. Register them to quickly become participatory, tax-paying citizens. Educate t

hpslugga
hpslugga

No. We have a situation where one person, i.e. you, is absolutely wrong about absolutely everything regarding this topic. What is the root of your wanting to build a wall? I imagine it's that of

GHOSTUSER
GHOSTUSER

Looks like President Trump’s deal with the Mexicans to limit the horde of migrants besieging our borders is working: “Its latest effort is a policy that admits only a few asylum seekers a day, if

workswithseed

workswithseed 2033

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

He can talk about whatever he wants. And so can I. It's fun how the marketplace of ideas works.

I linked his video and said this: "The Daddy of the Intellectual Dark Web talking Hitler and... see if it any of this seems to resonate right now..."

Listen to Peterson's interpretation of events and think about Trump. Not that "Trump = Hitler", but the power of a racist crowd over a politician trying to win favor and power.

There we can agree. Anyone who likes Trump and shows it will definitely get a wink and a nod from Trump no matter who they are. 

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9797

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Your B is false.  Immigrant labor pays taxes on multiple levels.

But not more than they use and more than native born citizens

https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-and-Native-Households

  • In 2012, 51 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal or illegal) reported that they used at least one welfare program during the year, compared to 30 percent of native households. Welfare in this study includes Medicaid and cash, food, and housing programs.
  • Welfare use is high for both new arrivals and well-established immigrants. Of households headed by immigrants who have been in the country for more than two decades, 48 percent access welfare.
  • No single program explains immigrants' higher overall welfare use. For example, not counting subsidized school lunch, welfare use is still 46 percent for immigrants and 28 percent for natives. Not counting Medicaid, welfare use is 44 percent for immigrants and 26 percent for natives.
  • Immigrant households have much higher use of food programs (40 percent vs. 22 percent for natives) and Medicaid (42 percent vs. 23 percent). Immigrant use of cash programs is somewhat higher than natives (12 percent vs. 10 percent) and use of housing programs is similar to natives.
  • Welfare use varies among immigrant groups. Households headed by immigrants from Central America and Mexico (73 percent), the Caribbean (51 percent), and Africa (48 percent) have the highest overall welfare use. Those from East Asia (32 percent), Europe (26 percent), and South Asia (17 percent) have the lowest.
  • Many immigrants struggle to support their children, and a large share of welfare is received on behalf of U.S.-born children. However, even immigrant households without children have significantly higher welfare use than native households without children — 30 percent vs. 20 percent.
  • The welfare system is designed to help low-income workers, especially those with children, and this describes many immigrant households. In 2012, 51 percent of immigrant households with one or more workers accessed one or more welfare programs, as did 28 percent of working native households.
  • The large share of immigrants with low levels of education and resulting low incomes partly explains their high use rates. In 2012, 76 percent of households headed by an immigrant who had not graduated high school used one or more welfare programs, as did 63 percent of households headed by an immigrant with only a high school education.
  • The high rates of immigrant welfare use are not entirely explained by their lower education levels. Households headed by college-educated immigrants have significantly higher welfare use than households headed by college-educated natives — 26 percent vs. 13 percent.
  • In the four top immigrant-receiving states, use of welfare by immigrant households is significantly higher than that of native households: California (55 percent vs. 30 percent), New York (59 percent vs. 33 percent), Texas (57 percent vs. 34 percent), and Florida (42 percent vs. 28 percent).
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

What does it matter?  It is the case what I said.  When I moved here I was shocked.  I just thought illegal immigrants did all the manual jobs.  Just the way it was in Texas.  I've doxed myself enough on this site.  I'll give you a geography W. PA, NE OH area.  The entire crew that mows my yard and built my house were all white and black guys.  I keep waiting for the influx of illegal immigration but not in any numbers here for as long as I have lived here.  None of this is a lie.  Believe it or not illegal immigration isnt controlling all certain types of labor across the country.  Brisket is just an idiot troll saying I'm lying.

Well, those areas have plenty of immigrants, so . . . 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

The argument we should be alright with illegal immigration because it will drive down cost of goods and they pay taxes is crazy.  Why have immigration laws anymore because after all the more illegal aliens working for the cheap is good for everyone?  Things will be cheaper.  Why not just let everyone come in because it will make things cheaper and they pay taxes.  Where does it end?  

BTW min wage can still be increased to $15 and have no impact on jobs or cost of goods, right?  

 

How about we prosecute the people who hire them.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104463

Posted
Posted (edited)

The argument is and remains what Dixon and I have said: reform immigration to allow for a reasonable guest-worker program, with all of the attendant features already discussed.

The current all-or-nothing approach is stupid, inefficient, and costly in multiple ways.  Paco the lettuce-picker is coming here one way or the other.  A sane approach proposes that we give him a legal path to come here, work, pay for the right to do so, pay all applicable taxes, and go home when it's time.  If we do that, we'll actually REDUCE the number of folks who 1) come here permanently, and 2) bring their families.  It's the most beneficial approach in pretty much every way.  But, it's not mean enough....so it won't happen.

Edited by Brisketexan
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
Just now, tjhooker said:

OMG are you trying to tell me the guys I deal with all the time all over the place as laborers are secret white and black illegal immigrants?   Please.  I know it is hard for your head to wrap around Americans are actually willing to do those jobs.  BTW I am the one that lives here and you're telling me as someone that does not what I know?  

Yes, that's what I'm telling you. Unless, of course, you want to tell me where you live.

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workswithseed

workswithseed 2033

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

OMG are you trying to tell me the guys I deal with all the time all over the place as laborers are secret white and black illegal immigrants?   Please.  I know it is hard for your head to wrap around Americans are actually willing to do those jobs.  BTW I am the one that lives here and you're telling me as someone that does not what I know?  

I mean, they could be, not usual but they could be cunucks.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

It is condescending and arrogant to claim that.  I dont have to justify what I know to be true where I live.  It is absolutely ridiculous to claim there are all these white and black dreamers where I live with perfect midwest accents doing labor jobs.  I deal with them all the time.  I know many of their life stories and families they come from.  But you know more about it than I guess.  Insane.

You don't want to believe it because it does not fit your narrative.

Also, I tell you what, tell me where you live?

Yeah, I'm not the one making bullshit claims, brah. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

where did i say that, brah?

I will be awaiting this response for a while.

You're so full of shit you are now just making stuff up.  Troll.

45 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

What does it matter?  It is the case what I said.  When I moved here I was shocked.  I just thought illegal immigrants did all the manual jobs.  Just the way it was in Texas.  I've doxed myself enough on this site.  I'll give you a geography W. PA, NE OH area.  The entire crew that mows my yard and built my house were all white and black guys.  I keep waiting for the influx of illegal immigration but not in any numbers here for as long as I have lived here.  None of this is a lie.  Believe it or not illegal immigration isnt controlling all certain types of labor across the country.  Brisket is just an idiot troll saying I'm lying.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tjhooker said:

What does it matter?  It is the case what I said.  When I moved here I was shocked.  I just thought illegal immigrants did all the manual jobs.  Just the way it was in Texas.  I've doxed myself enough on this site.  I'll give you a geography W. PA, NE OH area.  The entire crew that mows my yard and built my house were all white and black guys.  I keep waiting for the influx of illegal immigration but not in any numbers here for as long as I have lived here.  None of this is a lie.  Believe it or not illegal immigration isnt controlling all certain types of labor across the country.  Brisket is just an idiot troll saying I'm lying.

Of course its a lie. You mow your mom's lawn. You have never hired someone to mow a yard in your whole life. 

You picked a random Trumpist spot to pretend you live there. Instead, you sleep in the same racecar bed you've slept in for your entire 24 years of existence. Probably somewhere like Denton. I am sure there are equally shitty people in Ohio and Pennsylvania, but they pollute Penn State and tOSU boards, not Texas boards. At least create a believable lie, troll.

Seriously, there may be 1 Texas grad ever who moved to the area you lie about living in.  You should give that guy an apology for fucking him over. 

Edited by FondrenRoad
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Anastasis

Anastasis 23375

Posted
Posted (edited)
Just now, Celery Man said:

we should definitely do that.  also redistribute representation in the senate by state GDP

Even further, lets get more granular.  How about we weight all individual votes by household income with a cap at some level around 95th percentile. Or alternatively, weight votes by an estimate of total tax paid. These ideas are fun. 

Edited by Anastasis
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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, tjhooker said:

LOL.  Yes.  Fantastic idea.  I have another.  Get rid of Senate and electoral college.  Screw the small states.  Forefathers had it all wrong about stupid tyranny of the majority idea.  Let's have 5 states run this bitch.  Actually, what do you need states for anymore?  Get rid of states.  They're stupid anyway.  Who cares?  Like Delaware.  Where the fuck is that anyway?  Doesnt need 2 senators.  That's for for sure.

The Founders were wrong about a lot of things. The electoral college was one of them. Right now we are being run by a government largely chosen by the minority. That's a recipe for civil unrest.

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Captainant

Captainant 27309

Posted
Posted

@hayden_horn I'm pretty sure hooker is on a roll now and doesn't know how to stop lol. I'm getting pages spammed just from the "You've chosen to ignore content by tjhooker" messages. He's just derailing and flinging poo. Can we just skip to someone wishing violence on him and then we all talk rationally again?

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

It's not normally like that but at times in our history it has been the case.  Somehow we made it through.  It is by design.  We aren't a strict democracy.  It is a republic.  I personally believe in the concept and why it was designed that way.  The Federalist Papers I think should be a required read for all students.  You'd essentially have to rip up the entire constitution to change these core values/ideas it is based off of to make some of these dramatic changes.  

That would be fine with me. The United States Constitution is archaic.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

no, but i was making a point.  there is a lot of white self loathing guilt in the CR.  What does it someone's race have to do with anything if the core concepts are sound as I believe?  Obviously, since it was different time some things had to change.  I think the forefathers even foresaw this and created a process to amend.  Why not work within that structure instead of considering the whole thing ancient and not applicable anymore?

Because the structural dysfunction of our government is going to lead to another civil war if the issue of minority rule is not addressed in a satisfactory manner.

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9797

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

The Founders were wrong about a lot of things. The electoral college was one of them. Right now we are being run by a government largely chosen by the minority. That's a recipe for civil unrest.

So full of shit

2.8 million more votes total for Clinton

Or 2,626 voting counties for Trump vs 487 counties for Hillary. 

It worked exactly as it was intended. The majority of he country chose the government. Not NY and LA

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

So full of shit

2.8 million more votes total for Clinton

Or 2,626 voting counties for Trump vs 487 counties for Hillary. 

It worked exactly as it was intended. The majority of he country chose the government. Not NY and LA

You are really bad at math. A majority of this nation's voting citizens chose Hillary.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I guess you really don’t understand how the electoral college works. A surplus Of voters in New Jesresy and New York making up he total of “victory” does not represent the 2,600 counties that voted for trump vs the 400+. 

Again, it worked exactly as intended. Sorry you are upset about it. 

You would be crying like a stuck pig and calling for its elimination if Hillary Clinton had won the electoral college with a minority of the popular vote.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18603

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, tjhooker said:

OK, Mr. destroy the constitution because it sucks and we can do it better now.  I actually doubt what we would put together would be better but worse.  You see what we did with Obamacare?  The new constitution would be like 10K pages.  

The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact will do for now. Only 98 electoral votes to go.

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Smax

Smax 3799

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, tjhooker said:

They hate the concept of a republic.  There is nothing you can say.

 

Not to mention when things are looking their way way as far as polls go, the system is working fine and the mere mention of Trump thinking about challenging the election or it being rigged triggers the left. Fast Forward to the mid terms and every seat they they did not gain, the election was rigged and challenging the results is truly an American thing to do....

 

fucking hypocrites 

 

Back on topic, both parties have had plenty of chances for serious immigration reform, both parties have punted the issue down the road. 

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ChickenSandwich

ChickenSandwich 9797

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, David Dennison said:

You would be crying like a stuck pig and calling for its elimination if Hillary Clinton had won the electoral college with a minority of the popular vote.

No, I wouldn’t. I’m not a Russian troll who monitors this site for any disagreeing premise 24hrs a day. 

Who follows it up with a one sentence response that can be summed up as “you’ll see!!!!!!”

”wait till November!”

”you go girl!”

“I hate the consistition”

”I wrestle my Daddy naked” 

*going to blow your mind, voted for Obama twice!  

Edited by ChickenSandwich
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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, tjhooker said:

It absolutely does.  It is still based off of combined senate and house seats per state.  Republics put more power locally into the states and the electoral college reflects it.  Our founding fathers did not want a few large population centers with complete power over the country and able to marginalize states with less population.  I think the current system although not perfect reflects that concept fairly close.

You are fucking clueless. Germany is a federal republic as well. Why don't you go look up how their President and Chancellor are chosen. The electoral college has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not we are a republic. Nor does being a republic even require federalism. Most republics aren't federal.

Republic - a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.

Edited by FondrenRoad
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