Caravan

[Brian Fantana 6685]

YOUR MOM'S HOUSE

[DDD Dad 14336]

15 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

As I figured, I’m a hypocrite in your eyes not because of any contradictory statements or actions that I have made but rather because I violate YOUR ETHICS of how YOU THINK I SHOULD FEEL OR ACT with respect to the caravan all the while ignoring MY EXPERIENCES AND FEELINGS as a 2nd generation.  I have an aunt who left Iran after husband got in trouble with the Iranian government but did so LEGALLY and immigrated to Canada instead of the US because they were able to get a visa and permanent status easier there. Everyone I know with Iranian heritage here immigrated legally. Why the fuck should I be sympathetic to these people proudly and defiantly breaking our laws? If the members of the caravan are too stupid, uneducated and/or poor to navigate the means of legal immigration then that is even more reason to discourage hordes of poor, uneducated people who don’t speak English from coming to this country! 

Immigration to you is an abstract concept while I have lived it through my family. Your position as you have stated numerous times is to let ALL of them in. From my experience, that is a ridiculous stance since my family and friends didot legally. Finally, my own family didn’t flee shit. My parents came here 5 years before the Revolution. I have said that numerous times yet you never pick up on it because it doesn’t fit into your imagined narrative about me.

You do understand that seeking asylum is a LEGAL means of immigration, right?

You are advocating making that LEGAL means harder (less "attractive") because of your own value judgment as to these people versus those who have come before or who might come from different places (non "shit hole" countries) (no racist).

[hayden_horn 11362]

18 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

As I figured, I’m a hypocrite in your eyes not because of any contradictory statements or actions that I have made but rather because I violate YOUR ETHICS of how YOU THINK I SHOULD FEEL OR ACT with respect to the caravan all the while ignoring MY EXPERIENCES AND FEELINGS as a 2nd generation.  I have an aunt who left Iran after husband got in trouble with the Iranian government but did so LEGALLY and immigrated to Canada instead of the US because they were able to get a visa and permanent status easier there. Everyone I know with Iranian heritage here immigrated legally. Why the fuck should I be sympathetic to these people proudly and defiantly breaking our laws? If the members of the caravan are too stupid, uneducated and/or poor to navigate the means of legal immigration then that is even more reason to discourage hordes of poor, uneducated people who don’t speak English from coming to this country! 

Immigration to you is an abstract concept while I have lived it through my family. Your position as you have stated numerous times is to let ALL of them in. From my experience, that is a ridiculous stance since my family and friends didot legally. Finally, my own family didn’t flee shit. My parents came here 5 years before the Revolution. I have said that numerous times yet you never pick up on it because it doesn’t fit into your imagined narrative about me.

asylum seeking is legal, dude. 

also, we control our own immigration policy, as it pertains to legality. we can make it far more efficient.

you are a hypocrite because your family got here and you want to pull up the ladder.

you claim to be a christian, but turn around and say things like you want to shoot rubber bullets at these refugees. you've called them illiterate peasants. you dehumanize them every chance you get.

but you got yours. LEGALLY. so can these people.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

You do understand that seeking asylum is a LEGAL means of immigration, right?

You are advocating making that LEGAL means harder (less "attractive") because of your own value judgment as to these people versus those who have come before or who might come from different places (non "shit hole" countries) (no racist).

They literally do not care. This has been pointed out a thousand times in the CR already.

[hayden_horn 11362]

also, why aren't ankle monitors enough?

[GHOSTUSER 361]

2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

You do understand that seeking asylum is a LEGAL means of immigration, right?

You are advocating making that LEGAL means harder (less "attractive") because of your own value judgment as to these people versus those who have come before or who might come from different places (non "shit hole" countries) (no racist).

People who immigrated legally often wait YEARS in their home countries before acquiring a Green Card. Those that organized and joined the caravan are trying to abuse and overwhelm the asylum process so that clueless bleeding hearts like hayden can wail at the system and put pressure on the government.

[DDD Dad 14336]

16 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

People who immigrated legally often wait YEARS in their home countries before acquiring a Green Card. Those that organized and joined the caravan are trying to abuse and overwhelm the asylum process so that clueless bleeding hearts like hayden can wail at the system and put pressure on the government.

Some do, others don't.  Some ride rickety makeshift rafts across the Florida Straits, others from Haiti, fleeing desperate economic conditions and political, racial, or religious persecution.  Some walk hundreds of miles from Central America.

The laws address each of these situations, including the one you mentioned (staying home waiting).  Each means is legal.

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by DDD Dad

[DDD Dad 14336]

Icono,

For your viewing pleasure to help you understand why your points sound racist.

Particularly starting around 11:00.

and then right at 13:00:

"So you're worried about immigration."

"Only coming in the illegal way.  Not the legal way.  Come in the legal way, and you're more than welcome."

"I mean it is legal to seek asylum."

[pause smirking]

"Well I hope Trump changes that."

"You don't want any asylum seekers?"

"No."

Edited December 17, 2018 by DDD Dad

[Dahobbs 17534]

1 hour ago, Kyle said:

Day drinking again?

Is this the honest discourse you were craving? Negging away at this point. I hope others do the same. You are nothing but a troll and should be banned. 

[David Dennison 18856]

40 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

People who immigrated legally often wait YEARS in their home countries before acquiring a Green Card. Those that organized and joined the caravan are trying to abuse and overwhelm the asylum process so that clueless bleeding hearts like hayden can wail at the system and put pressure on the government.

That's a question of fact that has to be litigated.

It doesn't change the fact that seeking asylum is a legal method of immigration.

[Captainant 27658]

3 hours ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Have I espoused a bleeding heart position with respect to the caravan and then contradicted it. I’m not aware that I have. I have been pretty consistent with respect to the attitude and course of action I’d pursue in response to the caravan.

You've espoused that you would like to make immigrant hearts bleed and then contradicted it.

[Foosters 17853]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

They literally do not care. This has been pointed out a thousand times in the CR already.

He's right. What's the point of the debate if we're going to continue to argue over this point?

[HenryJames 66046]

I think immigration should be limited to black dudes who read the Financial Times and upscale Jews who eat Chinese food.

[Kyle 207]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Is this the honest discourse you were craving? Negging away at this point. I hope others do the same. You are nothing but a troll and should be banned. 

Glad bullying makes you feel good. Let's not have any diverse POV. Have fun at the brown shirt holiday party.

If you'll review the thread, I'm not the one constantly personally attacking anyone who disagrees with me. I'm having a conversation with someone and random regards inject stupid comments, so they might get stupid replies. Some people tolerate diversity more than others.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Kyle

[David Dennison 18856]

Just now, Kyle said:

Glad bullying makes you feel good. Let's not have any diverse POV.

Do you need a safe space?

[Kyle 207]

2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Do you need a safe space?

No. I am not intimidated by diverse points of view. I actually appreciate it unless most of the brown shirts here.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

3 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Glad bullying makes you feel good. Let's not have any diverse POV. Have fun at the brown shirt holiday party.

If you'll review the thread, I'm not the one constantly personally attacking anyone who disagrees with me. I'm having a conversation with someone and random regards inject stupid comments, so they might get stupid replies. Some people tolerate diversity more than others.

So why did you refuse to answer any of his questions if you're so interested in having a conversation?

[David Dennison 18856]

4 minutes ago, Kyle said:

No. I am not intimidated by diverse points of view. I actually appreciate it unless most of the brown shirts here.

Oh. Well I don't think anyone here is intimidated by your points of view. A lot of us just think you're wrong.

[Kyle 207]

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

So why did you refuse to answer any of his questions if you're so interested in having a conversation?

Because posting things like this - "God damn you're fucking retarded. Go back to chewing gravel you nimrod" - does not signal a mature, intelligent poster seeking a real conversation. Calling people names and telling other posters what they are or what they think I do not find helpful or affirming. It might make you feel better or tougher, but I does not signal a genuine intellectual curiosity. BTW - my question was answered and I responded to the person that answered it.

 

[Kyle 207]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Oh. Well I don't think anyone here is intimidated by your points of view. A lot of us just think you're wrong.

That's probably right. But there are a lot that seem really afraid of diversity. Otherwise, why call everyone names that disagrees with them?

[Brisketexan 105101]

So, for those of you who would like to help your fellow human beings in need here in Texas, here's something we can do immediately:

Quote

The nuns at the Catholic Charities Respite Center in McAllen, Texas are in desperate need of towels. They are not able to launder them fast enough with the number of refugees that are being delivered to their doors. Below is a link to towels that will meet their needs, and you can have them delivered to; 
Catholic Charities Respite Center
209 W. Hackberry Ave
McAllen, Texas 78501
They ask that you send it with a gift card so they will know who to thank.

Here's the Amazon link:

https://www.amazon.com/COMMERCIAL-BASIC-PIECE-TOWEL-MARTEX/dp/B07961ZMRW?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_4&fbclid=IwAR3kDT-rJuHxP3QRS4_1KzeZWSoAaBYPjY2o778kEnVzh3TGR5cE61AEV8M

 

I have quite a few friends who have been down there in the past week.  I'll say this -- the work that churches have been doing (particularly the Catholic Church) is some seriously holy work indeed.  If you want to see Christianity lived and practiced, go to the Greyhound station in McAllen, or any number of other places in the Valley, where people are tirelessly and relentlessly simply doing what is good and right.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

1 minute ago, Kyle said:

Because posting things like this - "God damn you're fucking retarded. Go back to chewing gravel you nimrod" - does not signal a mature, intelligent poster seeking a real conversation. Calling people names and telling other posters what they are or what they think I do not find helpful or affirming. It might make you feel better or tougher, but I does not signal a genuine intellectual curiosity. BTW - my question was answered and I responded to the person that answered it.

 

Uh, but he didn't say any of that to you. He asked you some honest questions and you responded with "day drinking again?"

That doesn't seem like someone seeking a conversation.

[David Dennison 18856]

1 minute ago, Kyle said:

That's probably right. But there are a lot that seem really afraid of diversity. Otherwise, why call everyone names that disagrees with them?

Are you familiar with the American right wing echo chamber?

Edited December 17, 2018 by David Dennison

[Kyle 207]

Just now, David Dennison said:

Are you familiar with the American right wing echo chamber?

I believe it is one of the windmills a lot of posters here chase on a daily basis.

[Kyle 207]

2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Uh, but he didn't say any of that to you. He asked you some honest questions and you responded with "day drinking again?"

That doesn't seem like someone seeking a conversation.

Similarly, starting a post with - "And there is a reason you don't actually engage any of the substantive responses; your ideas are hollow and cannot withstand any amount of critical thought" - does not signal any serious attempt at seeking to understand much like calling for banning anyone with diverse thoughts. I love freedom of speech and diverse points of view and do not appreciate people who do not. I think it one thing that makes America great. Usually beginning a comment with some vague attack about another poster is usually the signal fo a closed mind.

[Brian Fantana 6685]

Nah I'm pretty sure you just don't want to answer the questions.

[Dahobbs 17534]

19 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Similarly, starting a post with - "And there is a reason you don't actually engage any of the substantive responses; your ideas are hollow and cannot withstand any amount of critical thought" - does not signal any serious attempt at seeking to understand much like calling for banning anyone with diverse thoughts. I love freedom of speech and diverse points of view and do not appreciate people who do not. I think it one thing that makes America great. Usually beginning a comment with some vague attack about another poster is usually the signal fo a closed mind.

I have given you a hundred opportunities to show that you can actually discuss the topics. You have refused. Calling you out on that refusal isn't bullying or vague. Answer the questions. I've shown a willingness to engage in actual debate; you haven't. I'm not calling your ideas or intellect shallow because I disagree with them. I'm calling them shallow because you refuse to engage in any discourse with the "diverse points of view" you claim to champion. You want only to echo your own thoughts ad nauseam.  I'll gladly retract all negs if you'll just respond with any substance to any thoughts that aren't your own. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Dahobbs

[Thetexashammer 1062]

So if they wanted asylum, why didn't they apply in Managua, or Tegucigalpa, or Mexico City? Anyone claiming they want "Asylum" is lying, as you needn't travel 1000 miles to do so, you merely find the nearest embassy. They passed several on the way. And they were offered "asylum" by Mexico. 

They are coming to the US for catch and release. 

[DDD Dad 14336]

1 hour ago, Kyle said:

No. I am not intimidated by diverse points of view. I actually appreciate it unless most of the brown shirts here.

You shouldn't call Icono, Chrispy, Onboard, and Oatmealwhatever Nazis.  

[David Dennison 18856]

5 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

So if they wanted asylum, why didn't they apply in Managua, or Tegucigalpa, or Mexico City? Anyone claiming they want "Asylum" is lying, as you needn't travel 1000 miles to do so, you merely find the nearest embassy. They passed several on the way. And they were offered "asylum" by Mexico. 

They are coming to the US for catch and release. 

It's irrelevant as to why they want asylum in the United States as opposed to Mexico. They have a legal right to seek asylum here.

[Captainant 27658]

Yeah, why would poor, downtrodden people want to seek asylum and a better future in THE GREATEST COUNTRY OF ALL TIME?? No idea why that could be more appealing than a second world country for the place to restart your life

[Biff Tannen 45678]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

So, for those of you who would like to help your fellow human beings in need here in Texas, here's something we can do immediately:

Here's the Amazon link:

https://www.amazon.com/COMMERCIAL-BASIC-PIECE-TOWEL-MARTEX/dp/B07961ZMRW?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_4&fbclid=IwAR3kDT-rJuHxP3QRS4_1KzeZWSoAaBYPjY2o778kEnVzh3TGR5cE61AEV8M

 

I have quite a few friends who have been down there in the past week.  I'll say this -- the work that churches have been doing (particularly the Catholic Church) is some seriously holy work indeed.  If you want to see Christianity lived and practiced, go to the Greyhound station in McAllen, or any number of other places in the Valley, where people are tirelessly and relentlessly simply doing what is good and right.

No gift card option available, but done.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

30 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

So if they wanted asylum, why didn't they apply in Managua, or Tegucigalpa, or Mexico City? Anyone claiming they want "Asylum" is lying, as you needn't travel 1000 miles to do so, you merely find the nearest embassy. They passed several on the way. And they were offered "asylum" by Mexico. 

They are coming to the US for catch and release. 

And why is that? Because someone will give them a job. And we never punish that someone because we want the cheap labor. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

On 12/16/2018 at 4:45 PM, YChang said:

Chinese food is more American than apple pie these days.

Captain Pedant: Apple pie is German, it comes from ze struedel

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Captain Pedant: Apple pie is German, it comes from ze struedel

Well bourbon ain't .............. gott dammit !!!!!!!  So there's that. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Well bourbon ain't .............. gott dammit !!!!!!!  So there's that. 

We don't agree about shit, but I know you ain't a troll, so a big manly hug, amigo. You alright. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

We don't agree about shit, but I know you ain't a troll, so a big manly hug, amigo. You alright. 

Bourbon, the great reconciler........

[Grandioso 2592]

1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

And why is that? Because someone will give them a job. And we never punish that someone because we want the cheap labor. 

Not only will "someone" give you a job, the fucking President himself will.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/trump-bedminster-golf-undocumented-workers.html

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

Not only will "someone" give you a job, the fucking President himself will.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/06/us/trump-bedminster-golf-undocumented-workers.html

Guest worker visa program, just saying, we really need one that works.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[David Dennison 18856]

16 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Guest worker visa program, just saying, we really need one that works.

AMNESTY!!!!!

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Just now, David Dennison said:

AMNESTY!!!!!

So any way, the intellectual answer is Guest worker visa program.  But according to you people who break our laws should be rewarded for it. Yes that's a great way to keep it from happening again. Of course you'll deny you're for open borders, but that's exactly what amnesty means.

[Brisketexan 105101]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

So any way, the intellectual answer is Guest worker visa program.  But according to you people who break our laws should be rewarded for it. Yes that's a great way to keep it from happening again. Of course you'll deny you're for open borders, but that's exactly what amnesty means.

You just beat yourself in an argument with yourself.  It looks a lot like shooting yourself in the dick.

You just attributed all kinds of bullshit positions to folks who don't take those positions.  You've seen a crapload of us suggest a rigorous guest worker program, with good positive  incentives for following it (for example, after a certain amount of time with a good clean record, and a steady record of sound employment, you can get residency, and after additional good  performance, citizenship) and strong repercussions for violating it (e.g., no path to coming back, no path to green card or citizenship).  It isn't rocket science.

As for asylum, that's its own thing, and always has been.  I've known asylum seekers in some way my whole life.  Every one of them has been among the finest people I've ever met.  They were all hard workers, and their children have become everything we want an American to be.  We brag about "the American Dream," then act like royal fucking assholes to people who  come running from hellscapes to try to realize that dream.  That makes us either hypocrites or assholes, probably both.

And yeah, sometimes taking in a refugee means that there's a bit less food on my plate, so I can put some on theirs.  So the fuck what?  It's what human beings should do.  And, if I have a lick of sense, I realize that some of the food I already have, I was able to earn because of the economic fuel that previous refugees and asylum seekers have pumped into our economy.  So, in net, it's not even a sacrifice at all.

We can have borders.  We can have legal processes.  We can have asylum standards.  We already do.  We should improve some of those.  But we don't have to be fucking assholes to do it.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

You just beat yourself in an argument with yourself.  It looks a lot like shooting yourself in the dick.

You just attributed all kinds of bullshit positions to folks who don't take those positions.  You've seen a crapload of us suggest a rigorous guest worker program, with good positive  incentives for following it (for example, after a certain amount of time with a good clean record, and a steady record of sound employment, you can get residency, and after additional good  performance, citizenship) and strong repercussions for violating it (e.g., no path to coming back, no path to green card or citizenship).  It isn't rocket science.

As for asylum, that's its own thing, and always has been.  I've known asylum seekers in some way my whole life.  Every one of them has been among the finest people I've ever met.  They were all hard workers, and their children have become everything we want an American to be.  We brag about "the American Dream," then act like royal fucking assholes to people who  come running from hellscapes to try to realize that dream.  That makes us either hypocrites or assholes, probably both.

And yeah, sometimes taking in a refugee means that there's a bit less food on my plate, so I can put some on theirs.  So the fuck what?  It's what human beings should do.  And, if I have a lick of sense, I realize that some of the food I already have, I was able to earn because of the economic fuel that previous refugees and asylum seekers have pumped into our economy.  So, in net, it's not even a sacrifice at all.

We can have borders.  We can have legal processes.  We can have asylum standards.  We already do.  We should improve some of those.  But we don't have to be fucking assholes to do it.

Dude, I've been calling for a guest worker visa program for years get over yourself. Amnesty just encourages others to do the same thing.

[Brisketexan 105101]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Dude, I've been calling for a guest worker visa program for years get over yourself. Amnesty just encourages others to do the same thing.

Where did I suggest amnesty?

Carrots.  Sticks.  Use both.   Using the word "amnesty" without putting any specific parameters on what  you actually mean is just a  lazy way of saying "don't do anything, cuz nothing will work.   BUILD THE WALL!"

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Where did I suggest amnesty?

Carrots.  Sticks.  Use both.   Using the word "amnesty" without putting any specific parameters on what  you actually mean is just a  lazy way of saying "don't do anything, cuz nothing will work.   BUILD THE WALL!"

The post you were responding to was my response to Dennisons call for amnesty instead of a guest worker visa program . So maybe you oughtta look at the thread a bit more before going off on others posts when you don't have all the info.

[Brisketexan 105101]

The post you were responding to was my response to Dennisons call for amnesty instead of a guest worker visa program . So maybe you oughtta look at the thread a bit more before going off on others posts when you don't have all the info.

Jesus. Get your sarcasm meter calibrated. He wasn’t calling for amnesty. He was mimicking the response that we hear anytime someone dares suggest a guest worker program...a response that you then - without realizing the irony - gave.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Jesus. Get your sarcasm meter calibrated. He wasn’t calling for amnesty. He was mimicking the response that we hear anytime someone dares suggest a guest worker program...a response that you then - without realizing the irony - gave.

I'm here all the time and haven't seen that "sarcastic" response about guest worker visas.   I'd also say he is a proponent of amnesty, based on his posting history on the subject.

Not sure what's ironical about his comment  of amnesty to my comment of guest worker visa. Where's the irony ?   Not a lot daring about a guest worker visa program, Pretty tame stuff really.

[ADHD 28]

There will be no wall built. Forget about it. Nobody in Texas wants it. Nobody. 

It's a Fox news scare tactic and it might be a Russian "ruse".

[Huckleberry 32858]

5 hours ago, Kyle said:

Because posting things like this - "God damn you're fucking retarded. Go back to chewing gravel you nimrod" - does not signal a mature, intelligent poster seeking a real conversation. Calling people names and telling other posters what they are or what they think I do not find helpful or affirming. It might make you feel better or tougher, but I does not signal a genuine intellectual curiosity. BTW - my question was answered and I responded to the person that answered it.

 

 

10 hours ago, Kyle said:

Blah blah blah .... race card ... blah blah blah ... national socialist ... blah blah blah ... my virginia hurts.

lulz

[ChickenSandwich 9834]

18 hours ago, DDD Dad said:

Hey man, I got mine.  Fuck everyone who wants to come in behind me.

Exactly. You have yours so who gives a fuck about the working class Americans. Not gonna fuck with your family’s lifestyle and you can feel good helping out the “little” people.