Fixed Cost Remodel vs. Cost Plus Remodel

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1617]

I've done my internet research and understand there are risks in the cost-plus model.  Wanted to check to see if anyone has done it, horror stories, etc.   I've about GC'ing the remodel myself, but cost-plus sounds like it might be a way for me to do that without sitting around the house and managing the subs myself.  

[Gil Bang 26101]

do you have the qualifications to run the job yourself?  

[happyfunball 481]

48 minutes ago, GlenFromTheMailRoom said:

I've done my internet research and understand there are risks in the cost-plus model.  Wanted to check to see if anyone has done it, horror stories, etc.   I've about GC'ing the remodel myself, but cost-plus sounds like it might be a way for me to do that without sitting around the house and managing the subs myself.  

Very interested as about to do the same 

[woohorn 1131]

Change orders about the smallest, stupidest stuff will drive you crazy in lots of fixed price deals.

 

I've had to bring in specialists to fix/take over tasks and that is pretty easy in fixed price tho. I doubt cost+ lets you bring in your own guys/supplies without hassling about the mark-up.

 

It really depends on how unique your project is.

 

 

 

 

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1617]

41 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

do you have the qualifications to run the job yourself?  

I do not, but my out of work brother-in-law is.  I would contract him out to the job.

 

22 minutes ago, woohorn said:

Change orders about the smallest, stupidest stuff will drive you crazy in lots of fixed price deals.

 

I've had to bring in specialists to fix/take over tasks and that is pretty easy in fixed price tho. I doubt cost+ lets you bring in your own guys/supplies without hassling about the mark-up.

 

It really depends on how unique your project is.

 

 

 

 

The remodel isn't too crazy.  An extra bedroom and playroom for the kids.  We're using all the same flooring, tile, paint, exterior materials, etc.

The builder wouldn't need to do the exterior design, engineering, permitting etc.  I did that all myself.

Edited October 31, 2018 by GlenFromTheMailRoom

[Gil Bang 26101]

respectfully, do you know that your BIL has that ability? IDGAF if he's worked "construction", managing a job is a lot more involved.  Scheduling, etc.  

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1617]

25 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

respectfully, do you know that your BIL has that ability? IDGAF if he's worked "construction", managing a job is a lot more involved.  Scheduling, etc.  

He does.  Our house is nice enough that it wouldn’t have crossed my mind if I didn’t think he couldn’t handle it.

[Gil Bang 26101]

which leads me to wonder why he's unemployed, but that's for another day. 

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1617]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

which leads me to wonder why he's unemployed, but that's for another day. 

He was going to buy a business and the deal fell through.  Not sure what you’re implying but you’re not exactly being helpful anyways.  Plus you’re not even in Texas, so yeah.  

Edited November 1, 2018 by GlenFromTheMailRoom

[Jkwellborn 6891]

I’ve known quite a few people that have taken care of doing the contracting themselves.

[Gil Bang 26101]

1 hour ago, GlenFromTheMailRoom said:

He was going to buy a business and the deal fell through.  Not sure what you’re implying but you’re not exactly being helpful anyways.  Plus you’re not even in Texas, so yeah.  

I didn't realize that one needed to be in Texas to offer remodeling advice.  Whatever dude.  

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1617]

1 hour ago, Gil Bang said:

I didn't realize that one needed to be in Texas to offer remodeling advice.  Whatever dude.  

You're in California.  This is known and is a totally different animal.  Rather than ask what my brother in law is doing with his career, offer advice or peace out.  Not that hard to figure out.  

[GlenFromTheMailRoom 1617]

2 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:

I’ve known quite a few people that have taken care of doing the contracting themselves.

Would they do it again though?

[deadshank 24653]

All of the remodeling work and most of the new construction jobs we do are cost plus.   

Reasonable hard costs and allowances included in schedule of values, all invoices arranged and incorporated in billing cycle, no new draw requests submitted until lien waivers for all invoices from previous draw are submitted to owner.  

What else do you want to know?

[Jkwellborn 6891]

Would they do it again though?

I guess it depends on the size of the job and how much money they wanted to save.

This is a perfect set up for mom jokes.

[SHOOTER12 8853]

Never done any remodeling.  However, the phrase "cost plus" brings me a smile.  As a specialized subcontractor, every time we see a bid come out that says "cost plus"  we give everyone raises, cuz somebody gon get raped up in there.

[deadshank 24653]

1 hour ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Never done any remodeling.  However, the phrase "cost plus" brings me a smile.  As a specialized subcontractor, every time we see a bid come out that says "cost plus"  we give everyone raises, cuz somebody gon get raped up in there.

Only if the builder / remodeler is dumb.

It has been our experience that if the trades see a remodel and want to "protect" themselves from unforseen problems then the dogpile their bid.

A good builder will know where his subs should be pricewise.

[UTPhil2006 3831]

Talked to the OP but wanted to put this out there for anyone else... we have a few teams up in Austin, as well as a couple in Houston.  We just finished two complete rebuilds in Orange (Harvey) and just finished two remodels in Austin, as well as have completed several before that and also patios, simple decks, full houses, everything if any of you need any work done in Houston or Austin just shoot me a PM or you can email me at phil@reihomerealty.com

[Homercles 10206]

Talked to the OP but wanted to put this out there for anyone else... we have a few teams up in Austin, as well as a couple in Houston.  We just finished two complete rebuilds in Orange (Harvey) and just finished two remodels in Austin, as well as have completed several before that and also patios, simple decks, full houses, everything if any of you need any work done in Houston or Austin just shoot me a PM or you can email me at phil@reihomerealty.com

[UTPhil2006 3831]

2 hours ago, Homercles said:

 

 

You’re getting the Derka 1 beer treatment at the next HH

[J.R. 150]

I would be very wary of any GC in any industry for work that is fairly straightforward (home remodeling) being unable to offer lump sum pricing. In either model, and regardless of your BIL or any other person besides yourself level of skill or experience, think of your need to manage this work like a second job and plan accordingly or you will get turbofucked. 3 remodels under my belt. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

It ain't a coincidence that contractor starts with "con".

[Upgrayedd 5826]

How good are the drawings?

lulz at trying to “schedule “ subs on a small remodel.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

18 minutes ago, Upgrayedd said:

How good are the drawings?

lulz at trying to “schedule “ subs on a small remodel.

This, in both cases.............

[deadshank 24653]

48 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

It ain't a coincidence that contractor starts with "con".

How does an architect commit suicide?

He jumps off his own ego. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, deadshank said:

How does an architect commit suicide?

He jumps off his own ego. 

I can't afford an ego.  

My favorite line is from my structural engineer, "I stand by my work, just not under it".

[Jkwellborn 6891]

He’s not an aggy is he?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

27 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

He’s not an aggy is he?

Actually no, VT, and a world class musician.

[beer 3247]

I would like to get back to the brother in law career advice.  Does he have a resume we could browse (photo included)?

[NBMisha 224]

The book rationale is that in cost plus you are bearing more cost uncertainty, and in fixed price the GC is bearing more.  But, for both, the change order process is their way to recover most unforseen issues.  It all boils down to the quality of the GC and their subs.

But, for empirical data:  a significant remodel in Seattle about 5 years ago was cost plus.  We uncovered lots of issues so the scope exploded.  Fixed price would not have been much help there.  But, the productivity of the GC's own guys was too low.  Put some productivity terms in your contract.

An even more significant remodel in FL last year went fixed price, with the largest GC in town.  They ended up being as professional as I was used to in industry.  An 8 month schedule ended up 9, due to having to stop for a hurricane.   Cost came in just a tad under bid, and I got that difference, due to the contract.  This job was 3x the size of the Seattle job.

If schedule is not that critical, your brother plan can work, if you put a whole lot of attention into it, and incentivise him appropriatetly through a contract.

 

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13554]

OP brings us his out-of-work brother-in-law on Surly and then gets bent out of shape when the inevitable jokes are posted.   

My advice is don’t hire family members.  Are you prepared to fire him if it starts to go south?  Will everyone be cool if that occurs?  The answer to both would be No.    why risk good relationships for no reason other than it keeps some money in the family.  Tell me what remodel doesn’t involve the home owners getting pissed about something?