Life and Death of a Salesman

[next2naus 439]

my FLM (Director) is a empty suit yes man. look at this shit he sent the team today...

email subject line was "pretty good read - Death of a “Top-down” Salesman"

https://growthcompound.com/2020/11/04/death-of-a-top-down-salesman/

 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, next2naus said:

my FLM (Director) is a empty suit yes man. look at this shit he sent the team today...

email subject line was "pretty good read - Death of a “Top-down” Salesman"

https://growthcompound.com/2020/11/04/death-of-a-top-down-salesman/

 

 

I've been hearing about "fact based selling" being the only way,  and that relationships no longer matter for 20 years now.

Why do the same motherfuckers consistently produce?   It's all the same metrics, right?

 

LOLz

[next2naus 439]

9 minutes ago, slorch said:

I've been hearing about "fact based selling" being the only way,  and that relationships no longer matter for 20 years now.

Why do the same motherfuckers consistently produce?   It's all the same metrics, right?

 

LOLz

what a terrible name for something, it implies that everything else is a lie. I loathe all this clap trap

[Parliament 14368]

What if the fact is our product sucks?  Am I allowed to buy my client a steak and a handy then?

[DonkeyCigars 143]

13 hours ago, next2naus said:

my FLM (Director) is a empty suit yes man. look at this shit he sent the team today...

email subject line was "pretty good read - Death of a “Top-down” Salesman"

https://growthcompound.com/2020/11/04/death-of-a-top-down-salesman/

 

 

I read it. Thanks for sharing.

[next2naus 439]

How we doing players? about 15 selling days left. I'm done except for an ELA Amendment I'm chasing. Probably end the year with 32 transactions for the year ( non Covid years it's about 60-80) and maybe 113% of my number. no complaints. On the other hand I have a new VP  and he seems like a complete PITA. kinda guy that lives in SFDC and believes in Social Selling. thinks he's going to make seismic changes, he's going to be a busy work bitch, already has everyone doing an account whitespace exercise, wants the hours of the day accounted for. he went to a Military School but not one of the Academy's and he's all gung ho, guys in his late 40's and still has a jarhead cut. WW2 and Tank junkie, can't tell is he served. He has some seriously questionable "Likes on FAcebook.

Ex 1: 

Altplayground Dating Service: AltPlayGround, or APG as our friends call us, is a quirky, slightly irreverent website for people in the swinging lifestyle. Join us today to see what sets us apart from the rest...

 

 

Would the second time my VP was a Swinger. 

[next2naus 439]

oh yeah...he is also in WW2 German uniforms..https://www.facebook.com/whrestorer/ another "like" page

[riloh05 107]

17 minutes ago, next2naus said:

How we doing players? about 15 selling days left. I'm done except for an ELA Amendment I'm chasing. Probably end the year with 32 transactions for the year ( non Covid years it's about 60-80) and maybe 113% of my number. no complaints. On the other hand I have a new VP  and he seems like a complete PITA. kinda guy that lives in SFDC and believes in Social Selling. thinks he's going to make seismic changes, he's going to be a busy work bitch, already has everyone doing an account whitespace exercise, wants the hours of the day accounted for. he went to a Military School but not one of the Academy's and he's all gung ho, guys in his late 40's and still has a jarhead cut. WW2 and Tank junkie, can't tell is he served. He has some seriously questionable "Likes on FAcebook.

Ex 1: 

Altplayground Dating Service: AltPlayGround, or APG as our friends call us, is a quirky, slightly irreverent website for people in the swinging lifestyle. Join us today to see what sets us apart from the rest...

 

 

Would the second time my VP was a Swinger. 

closing strong for year end. have a huge opp that we just nda'd with that reached out to us earlier in the week- totally out of left field and will be the deal that helps blow the numbers out in 2021.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

On 12/9/2020 at 3:31 PM, next2naus said:

How we doing players? about 15 selling days left. I'm done except for an ELA Amendment I'm chasing. Probably end the year with 32 transactions for the year ( non Covid years it's about 60-80) and maybe 113% of my number. no complaints. On the other hand I have a new VP  and he seems like a complete PITA. kinda guy that lives in SFDC and believes in Social Selling. thinks he's going to make seismic changes, he's going to be a busy work bitch, already has everyone doing an account whitespace exercise, wants the hours of the day accounted for. he went to a Military School but not one of the Academy's and he's all gung ho, guys in his late 40's and still has a jarhead cut. WW2 and Tank junkie, can't tell is he served. He has some seriously questionable "Likes on FAcebook.

Ex 1: 

Altplayground Dating Service: AltPlayGround, or APG as our friends call us, is a quirky, slightly irreverent website for people in the swinging lifestyle. Join us today to see what sets us apart from the rest...

 

 

Would the second time my VP was a Swinger. 

well, you made a milly this year, so you can laugh at your VP all the way to the bank with his busy work.

I switched jobs and have a hall pass for Q4, but as I'm ramping I'd like to close at least something and get a nice double pay on my unrecoverable draw I negotiated.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2741]

I’m about 99% sure I’m going to buy a local HVAC company that was one of my listings. I can set my own quotas and the rest of the sales guys.

[next2naus 439]

11 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

well, you made a milly this year, so you can laugh at your VP all the way to the bank with his busy work.

I switched jobs and have a hall pass for Q4, but as I'm ramping I'd like to close at least something and get a nice double pay on my unrecoverable draw I negotiated.

They will pay the sales on-top of the unrecoverable?  sweet

[DonkeyCigars 143]

6 hours ago, next2naus said:

They will pay the sales on-top of the unrecoverable?  sweet

Yea; pretty good if you can get it, but the thing is it's mostly luck.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2741]

Unrecoverable draw = base salary, no?

[next2naus 439]

18 hours ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Unrecoverable draw = base salary, no?

in Tech (and some other industries) Sales Comp is two part. Base and Commission. when starting a new role you may be given a "draw" against future earnings. its typically a percentage of your OTE. what they do is take your OTE (Commission part) and work the math to monthly increments of your OTE.. paying you a 12th (@100%) each month. Sometimes this is recoverable, where it gets paid back to the company via your commissions and sometimes its non-recoverable. a 3 month ramp of unrecoverable is typical and sometimes there are additional months of recoverables. a lot factors into the plan, seniority, sales cycle, market conditions, company stage/growth, etc. The idea is to make the rep whole while they get their business up and running.

[BearSchlong 8136]

Plus there can be a clause in the offer letter that the draw must be paid back if you voluntarily leave. Mine ties me in for a year.

We used to call people who job hopped sales positions "bridge jumpers" because they wouldn't stick around to earn any actual commissions.

[blacklab 11994]

Had an AE I worked for when I was an SE like that.

Dude worked 2-3 years at a place an moved on just before getting fired for not selling a thing. Made a whole career of it, dilbert principaling his way into bigger roles. 

[Pescado_Rojo 19453]

On 12/12/2020 at 1:32 PM, blacklab said:

Had an AE I worked for when I was an SE like that.

Dude worked 2-3 years at a place an moved on just before getting fired for not selling a thing. Made a whole career of it, dilbert principaling his way into bigger roles. 

I wonder if I know him. I have a buddy that did the same thing. Got an MBA, then used his MBA network and job hopped startups working his way up to VP roles. He'd stick around long enough to put a job on his resume, but not long enough to be held accountable, then on to the next one. I don't think he's ever cashed an equity payout, but he and his wife are both trust funders, so I guess he really doesn't have to. 

[blacklab 11994]

He did more enterprise software companies, not startups. Left where we were and went to EMC/Dell. Lives in Dallas

[DonkeyCigars 143]

1 hour ago, blacklab said:

He did more enterprise software companies, not startups. Left where we were and went to EMC/Dell. Lives in Dallas

IMHO, EMC/Dell sales folks have poor reputations and don’t get a lot of looks from premiere software roles fwiw.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

On 12/12/2020 at 11:31 AM, next2naus said:

in Tech (and some other industries) Sales Comp is two part. Base and Commission. when starting a new role you may be given a "draw" against future earnings. its typically a percentage of your OTE. what they do is take your OTE (Commission part) and work the math to monthly increments of your OTE.. paying you a 12th (@100%) each month. Sometimes this is recoverable, where it gets paid back to the company via your commissions and sometimes its non-recoverable. a 3 month ramp of unrecoverable is typical and sometimes there are additional months of recoverables. a lot factors into the plan, seniority, sales cycle, market conditions, company stage/growth, etc. The idea is to make the rep whole while they get their business up and running.

Nailed it; the unrecoverable draws are easy to get in enterprise or strategic roles where sales cycles for big bets are 12-18 months. I negotiated 6 months at 80% of my OTE which helps to ease the pain of transition when you are used to making big quarterly checks to pay off all your largesse and foolishness in one fell swoop.

[BearSchlong 8136]

IMHO, EMC/Dell sales folks have poor reputations and don’t get a lot of looks from premiere software roles fwiw.

Also, is it me or am I the only guy that never worked at Cisco?

[DonkeyCigars 143]

2 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

3 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

IMHO, EMC/Dell sales folks have poor reputations and don’t get a lot of looks from premiere software roles fwiw.

Also, is it me or am I the only guy that never worked at Cisco?

Ha! I think if you were born in 1988 or later, you are fine, but if you are older than that then you’d have to be a hardware and mainframe sales guy at Cisco or BMC or IBM before you could do anything else. Most people I know from those worlds had to take a paycut to get into software because it really is a different animal than selling  bits and bytes and speeds and feeds of commodity hardware.

[next2naus 439]

16 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

IMHO, EMC/Dell sales folks have poor reputations and don’t get a lot of looks from premiere software roles fwiw.

Do you work there? depends on the type of Dell rep or EMC Rep. I list them that way as they are still culturally different. most of the Dell reps are not really software sales, they are licensing on iron that's been sold reps. 

[next2naus 439]

12 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Ha! I think if you were born in 1988 or later, you are fine, but if you are older than that then you’d have to be a hardware and mainframe sales guy at Cisco or BMC or IBM before you could do anything else. Most people I know from those worlds had to take a paycut to get into software because it really is a different animal than selling  bits and bytes and speeds and feeds of commodity hardware.

Really? '71. did a year at Dell to get my feet wet and immediately went to Software and never looked back. Selling hardware (any kind) IMHO opinion is just speeds/feeds and the latest TV/Stereo crap. And I turned down a serious Cisco Security job that was offered to me, seemed to have worked out. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

4 minutes ago, next2naus said:

Do you work there? depends on the type of Dell rep or EMC Rep. I list them that way as they are still culturally different. most of the Dell reps are not really software sales, they are licensing on iron that's been sold reps. 

Like most people in Austin, yes I have worked there and done the Dell/EMC dance. YMMV, but my experiences and anecdotes are the reputation is weak and the culture of a grindhouse and management by spreadsheet that leads to a "bring your laptop and badge" to every basement QBR, because if they don't like what you have to say you could be leaving those assets when you leave, is pretty well-known (and mocked) from what I've seen. Rivaled by maybe only Oracle in teh sucks.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

7 minutes ago, next2naus said:

Really? '71. did a year at Dell to get my feet wet and immediately went to Software and never looked back. Selling hardware (any kind) IMHO opinion is just speeds/feeds and the latest TV/Stereo crap. And I turned down a serious Cisco Security job that was offered to me, seemed to have worked out. 

I was being hyperbolic of course, sorry, thought we were cutting up a bit here.

[next2naus 439]

1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Like most people in Austin, yes I have worked there and done the Dell/EMC dance. YMMV, but my experiences and anecdotes are the reputation is weak and the culture of a grindhouse and management by spreadsheet that leads to a "bring your laptop and badge" to every basement QBR, because if they don't like what you have to say you could be leaving those assets when you leave, is pretty well-known (and mocked) from what I've seen. Rivaled by maybe only Oracle in teh sucks.

it is a grindhouse and I suspect the pay is shitty...too many hands in the cookie jar

[next2naus 439]

1 minute ago, DonkeyCigars said:

I was being hyperbolic of course, sorry, thought we were cutting up a bit here.

We are. There is no crying in Sales. 

[VABuckeye 2472]

We're at nearly 18% growth for the year.  If you'd told me in July that we would be where we are today I would have thought you were crazy.  A lot of hard work and some adapting to get where we are.  2021 is looking to be off to a good start for projects (fingers crossed).  

[ZB'Tejas 594]

Slow start to the year as we were acquired right at the beginning of lockdowns and that took it's toll on several things. Got just over quota in Q3 and should finish Q4 @ 300% making up for a shitty Q2.

Getting a solid pipeline together for first half of next year so I might delay this other company that is recruiting me. They keep saying their Reps are making mint but would take a few quarters to get up to speed I think.

Never worked at Dell myself. Spent my formative years doing strategy/implementation consulting for Big 4 and pivoted into SaaS. Moved from the delivery side over to sales once I got a little taste of that commission "eat what you kill" lifestyle.

[next2naus 439]

so it SKO time...virtual

new shitbag Sales VP is doing Sales Awards...but what are they? who gets them? Usually its by performance...b/c we are in Sales and performance is what should matter.  Nope, not this year. The Rep w/ the biggest deal did receive "Rep if the YEar" but the rest were all political. No mention of what the actual award is and no mention of all the Reps who exceeded their quota attainment. wtf?

[BearSchlong 8136]

So should we dip into the wreath fund and get you some crystal?  jk, I hear ya.  Sometimes that paycheck has to suffice.

I can't wait for in-person SKOs - virtual wasn't bad but not the same.

Having my best year in a long time, brought on a huge logo which bought me lots of political capital and have an anchor customer that is going to make my 2021 year by april.  So much fucking fun.

 

[next2naus 439]

it's all the little shit. Our backwards ass French IT staff won't support using a Mac so now I have to use a PC. I've been on my Mac in this role for 7 years with no issues. there goes my efficiency. 

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2741]

Had a sales rep quit last week in the middle of a sales training meeting. The odd part is he just walked out of the office. He left this cell, keys, IPad and work bag in his office. He didn’t tell anyone he was quitting. I’m glad he did because I was about to let him go for zero performance, but have the respect to at least tell someone.

[Incredulity 11686]

50 minutes ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Had a sales rep quit last week in the middle of a sales training meeting. The odd part is he just walked out of the office. He left this cell, keys, IPad and work bag in his office. He didn’t tell anyone he was quitting. I’m glad he did because I was about to let him go for zero performance, but have the respect to at least tell someone.

I would be really suspicious that he was up to something fishy.

 

If not, take the win.  

[AUS-97HORN 11874]

I am well and truly fucked this year. 

My territory has 10 accounts. 7 of them are 99.99% shut down due to covid, and have been since mid-March.   And they wont have a budget reopen, until late Summer at the earliest.

The three that are still open are my largest and are about 45-50% of my normal quota.   So yeah.... even before my quota is announced I know the best I can do is about 50%

and we had a team meeting yesterday where we were told that the company expects "the world" to reopen this year with record sales, and they have tasked us with a double digit quota increase.  (that could be 10-20%)    Are you fucking kidding me?  

nothing like hitting 40 fucking percent for the year upcoming.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2741]

I would be really suspicious that he was up to something fishy.
 
If not, take the win.  

I was holding the reps accountable each week with their own projected numbers. They have never had that and he wasn’t doing squat so he took the easy way out.

[riloh05 107]

29 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

I am well and truly fucked this year. 

My territory has 10 accounts. 7 of them are 99.99% shut down due to covid, and have been since mid-March.   And they wont have a budget reopen, until late Summer at the earliest.

The three that are still open are my largest and are about 45-50% of my normal quota.   So yeah.... even before my quota is announced I know the best I can do is about 50%

and we had a team meeting yesterday where we were told that the company expects "the world" to reopen this year with record sales, and they have tasked us with a double digit quota increase.  (that could be 10-20%)    Are you fucking kidding me?  

nothing like hitting 40 fucking percent for the year upcoming.

what industry and location?

[VABuckeye 2472]

I have more put in quotes right now than our enter revenue in 2020.  If they start hitting we’re going to experience a new level of growth in 2021.  Fingers crossed that it comes in and fingers doubly crossed that we can handle the growth and maintain our standards and reputation. 

[AUS-97HORN 11874]

2 hours ago, riloh05 said:

what industry and location?

harware, servers, storage technology.

My territory happens to be companies HQ'd in the Philly area.  Ive got an arline parts mfg company, whose specialty was remaking the 747 wings, and many other spare parts for Boeing.  Yeah,  they are in real trouble right now.

Ive got another account that is an engineering CAD group whose entire business model is bidding on city/state/govt infrastructure contracts.... another yeah, not gonna happen since every state right now overspent on making sure their schools could handle remote learning. 

 

all of that combined with my outside counterpart who had led the territory for 10 years having a fatal heart attack in April has meant the territory which was beating expectations, is now going to be bottom 10% for the whole damn company. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

Good luck out there Sales folks!

[StruggleBus 3922]

I decided to some cold prospecting on a few target accounts (SaaS companies) on Thursday. Connected with someone at 1:12pm and had a $60k services contract closed before end of business that day. Our sales cycle isn’t long, typically only 60-90 days. But that was really fun. 

[DonkeyCigars 143]

12 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

I decided to some cold prospecting on a few target accounts (SaaS companies) on Thursday. Connected with someone at 1:12pm and had a $60k services contract closed before end of business that day. Our sales cycle isn’t long, typically only 60-90 days. But that was really fun. 

Awesome! That'll keep you coming back for more; the thrill of the deal.

[next2naus 439]

I get to do all my own lead gen this year, which really isn't any different than its been for 6 plus years except now they give us ZoomInfo and LinkedIn Navigator and what to track the activity. the only thing that matters IMHO is revenue. My LinkedIn Navigator SSI # does not correlate to PO's. I'm so tired of the "Social Selling" bullshit. 

[Buzzrock 15026]

Moved from a core role to an overlay and I’m having a ball. The pace is blistering due to the number of reps I cover but I don’t miss all the bullshit that goes along with being the overall account owner. The upside is a little limited but I get to talk to a lot more customers which is what I like the most. I think I was pulled into 15 accounts in the first week. It’s definitely recharging my batteries after several years living and dying by the same 6 customers.

[Buzzrock 15026]

harware, servers, storage technology.
My territory happens to be companies HQ'd in the Philly area.  Ive got an arline parts mfg company, whose specialty was remaking the 747 wings, and many other spare parts for Boeing.  Yeah,  they are in real trouble right now.
Ive got another account that is an engineering CAD group whose entire business model is bidding on city/state/govt infrastructure contracts.... another yeah, not gonna happen since every state right now overspent on making sure their schools could handle remote learning. 
 
all of that combined with my outside counterpart who had led the territory for 10 years having a fatal heart attack in April has meant the territory which was beating expectations, is now going to be bottom 10% for the whole damn company. 

I was at Dell for five years and I don’t miss hardware at all.

[DonkeyCigars 143]

25 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

 

I was at Dell for five years and I don’t miss hardware at all.

 

I've never heard of anyone making real money in hardware anyways. I know more than a handful of folks who took paycuts leaving DellEMC to get into software sales to max out a W2.

[Buzzrock 15026]

When a memory factory flooding in Korea made me miss my number I knew I wanted out.

[Wulaw Horn 19231]

I finished tied for 3rd in top originators for the month of January at my company.

We have 1100 originators. I need to find a different company if I’m top 10 material starting 4th year of my job. 
 

My word for the year is monetize- I was doing that in January but then my reserve requirement for running my team went up 20k overnight, and as I don’t pay myself any commission and only work on bonus (As I’m starting up at the new company) that put a biiiiig crimp in my projected income for February). 
 

Behind my projected goal for the year by 15% right now. Not sure that goal was ever attainable but not sure it wasn’t attainable either. This month might bring me to on pace, but I’m sort of cannibalising my data base a little bit to get there. 
 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Wulaw Horn

[Wulaw Horn 19231]

I’ve got a question for you sales guys that are killing it:

 

how much of your success do you attribute to you vs how much is the work you do?  IOW if I came into your job and did all the same things as you would I have 100% of your success?  90?  20?

I’m recruiting a little bit right now and in telling people what’s available I can tell they just don’t believe me. I tell them (and honestly believe) if you just sit down and do the things I do (and I don’t work terribly hard to be honest) your results will be the same as mine. Nobody believes me. 
I’m in an industry where 3 or 4 units a month is probably the standard but I’m doing 25 a month and I don’t think there’s anything that’s not replicable or special about me (at least not anything special about me that helps me succeed in the job). I think it’s 100% the work. 
Anyway, looking for thoughts on this as sort of an existential question that I need to get the answer to correctly so it helps me in recruitment and managing expectations. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Wulaw Horn