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Life and Death of a Salesman

Hollywood

By Hollywood
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Pescado_Rojo
Pescado_Rojo

I work for a HW company, but my stuff is mostly software. I can't tell you how sick I get of hardware guys slashing margin on my stuff to make 20 points on the hardware part of the deal. I sell to the

BearSchlong
BearSchlong

Accepted a verbal this afternoon from my new boss, with written letter/package to follow by Friday. And tomorrow night I have to have dinner with the old boss and a presentation to a client I've been

AUS-97HORN
AUS-97HORN

just received an absolute gutpunch today.  My outside rep,  who has been with the company for 15 years and I've been working with the last 3 years, collapsed in his kitchen on Fri night and passe

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Posted (edited)
On 2/14/2021 at 8:12 AM, Wulaw Horn said:

I’ve got a question for you sales guys that are killing it:

 

how much of your success do you attribute to you vs how much is the work you do?  IOW if I came into your job and did all the same things as you would I have 100% of your success?  90?  20?

I’m recruiting a little bit right now and in telling people what’s available I can tell they just don’t believe me. I tell them (and honestly believe) if you just sit down and do the things I do (and I don’t work terribly hard to be honest) your results will be the same as mine. Nobody believes me. 
I’m in an industry where 3 or 4 units a month is probably the standard but I’m doing 25 a month and I don’t think there’s anything that’s not replicable or special about me (at least not anything special about me that helps me succeed in the job). I think it’s 100% the work. 
Anyway, looking for thoughts on this as sort of an existential question that I need to get the answer to correctly so it helps me in recruitment and managing expectations. 

Anyone can do what I do... except:

I can't teach character or work ethic.  I have to hire it.   I/ we can teach you the other parts.

Selling is about offering solutions.  Great customer service is anticpating problems and offering more of those solutions.  When our customers are assessing their situations every Monday or when ever they do it; the goal is to never be on their list of problems.  Do that consistently, and you get to talk a whole lot more about shit that leads to more sales.

Oh, and do what the fuck you say you are going to.  We're not a fucking car lot.

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Bo

Bo 139

Posted
Posted
I’ve got a question for you sales guys that are killing it:
 
how much of your success do you attribute to you vs how much is the work you do?  IOW if I came into your job and did all the same things as you would I have 100% of your success?  90?  20?
I’m recruiting a little bit right now and in telling people what’s available I can tell they just don’t believe me. I tell them (and honestly believe) if you just sit down and do the things I do (and I don’t work terribly hard to be honest) your results will be the same as mine. Nobody believes me. 
I’m in an industry where 3 or 4 units a month is probably the standard but I’m doing 25 a month and I don’t think there’s anything that’s not replicable or special about me (at least not anything special about me that helps me succeed in the job). I think it’s 100% the work. 
Anyway, looking for thoughts on this as sort of an existential question that I need to get the answer to correctly so it helps me in recruitment and managing expectations. 

That’s a tough one and really depends if the sale is knowing product/prospect (more consulting) versus the just selling a good product imo. Example, currently a coworker works way harder than me and drives a ton more activity, which corporate loves, but just can’t close deals. Sounds like he could be about done with it all and may be a fit at what you’re describing if that makes sense.
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Bo

Bo 139

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Posted

Really glad I was able to hit presidents club again for 2020 considering the down year but going into 2021 feels really different. It appears our company is moving more towards larger TAM (assigned accounts) for each rep and more of a inside sales approach. As a “field” sales consultant, I hate to see that because it’s not what I signed up for, but things have changed. Company announced we will continue to work from home until at least September.

Is everybody else seeing the same kind of shift from field to inside sales and how are you handling it?

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jdhorn92

jdhorn92 1558

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On 12/11/2020 at 4:38 PM, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Unrecoverable draw = base salary, no?

I suppose you could look at it that way, but in my line of work, if you arent covering your draw consistently, you are getting blown out.  Whereas a salary is salary and there are other factors you will be judged on.

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BearSchlong

BearSchlong 8110

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Posted

Well its been a while.

18 months into my new company and I'm beginning to think I need a new sales gig as the install component of my comp is taking about 6 months longer, on average, to get paid. And I am limited to a small number of highly specialized clients, only in Texas.

Looking for something with a broader customer base, national if not global market.

If you had to go sell something else, what and where would that be?

My FIL knows a guy who makes $400K closing the deal for a national auto repair franchise, working from home. Basically outsourced sales for engines, transmissions, etc. Thats not what I want to do, just an example of a faster pace. Sales cycles that don't take 6 months or a year.

I'm not afraid of plate appearances, I've always had a strong close ratio, and I am really interested in a faster turn. Just want to hone my skills and get better and right now, I can see myself selling myself out of a job.

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MonkeyCigarette

MonkeyCigarette 143

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Posted
5 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Crickets.

Sell me a new sales job?

Now is the time to get a new job; way more openings than qualified enterprise sales folks. Bases into and above the 200's with 320-360k OTE's available.

More people I know have made career year earnings in the past 18-24 months in the middle of a pandemic; go figure.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11683

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

It will always be a thing.

Closed a nice deal this morning with a large insurance carrier, so my mood is improved.

Still exploring a gig type situation, independent sales consultant for the right situation - looking for more at bats.

in all seriousness, and related to my post above, try to confirm that wherever you go has supply of the thing you are selling.  shits crazy out there.

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StruggleBus

StruggleBus 3922

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

It will always be a thing.

Closed a nice deal this morning with a large insurance carrier, so my mood is improved.

Still exploring a gig type situation, independent sales consultant for the right situation - looking for more at bats.

Was just curious. I assumed many of them transformed into an inside type of role when covid hit. I guess they are all on the road again now. 

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next2naus

next2naus 439

Posted
Posted
On 2/14/2021 at 9:12 AM, Wulaw Horn said:

I’ve got a question for you sales guys that are killing it:

 

how much of your success do you attribute to you vs how much is the work you do?  IOW if I came into your job and did all the same things as you would I have 100% of your success?  90?  20?

I’m recruiting a little bit right now and in telling people what’s available I can tell they just don’t believe me. I tell them (and honestly believe) if you just sit down and do the things I do (and I don’t work terribly hard to be honest) your results will be the same as mine. Nobody believes me. 
I’m in an industry where 3 or 4 units a month is probably the standard but I’m doing 25 a month and I don’t think there’s anything that’s not replicable or special about me (at least not anything special about me that helps me succeed in the job). I think it’s 100% the work. 
Anyway, looking for thoughts on this as sort of an existential question that I need to get the answer to correctly so it helps me in recruitment and managing expectations. 

Sales is a lot science and a lot alchemy. Process and "at bats" lead to wins but some people just don't catch fire sometimes and at some places. WE just had a guy go back to Cisco, I explained the code here and what to do and it just didn't click for him. Every career 300 hitter has a 275 season

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next2naus

next2naus 439

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Posted
3 hours ago, StruggleBus said:

Is field sales still a thing?

Always will be. I've been doing the WFH for 20 years in a Field Sales role.  I was always about 50/50 or 60/40 home office to customer facing. I probably tipped those scales to 65/35 once we had kids and moved out of NYC. I got very strategic with going to see clients/prospects face to face and really qualified my time spent. When Covid hit it wasn't much of a transition. Now I'm about to back out of a job I accepted as I don't really want to get back out there and break in a new product and category while Covid is still an issue and getting face time is still a risky prop and difficult as people are not in their offices. 

 

Sure I'll probably have pissed this recruiter and this new company off but on the flip side I got a 15 % bump in comp and mayb issues I had with my employer are being resolved, party in effort to stave off my departure and the attrition of others. better to take a raise right now and the devil I know. 

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MonkeyCigarette

MonkeyCigarette 143

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Posted
47 minutes ago, StruggleBus said:

Was just curious. I assumed many of them transformed into an inside type of role when covid hit. I guess they are all on the road again now. 

 

41 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

There's never a full on right answer but imo, you'll always need field sales. Much easier to build trust in person.

I think the data bears this out; during covid-19 pandemic darkest days the percentage of revenue was heavily skewed to add-on/expansions of existing install base versus acquisition of net new logos and new business. This seems to suggest that existing relationships and known value was where most organizations were finding growth or sustained business because gaining the trust and buy-in on new investments isn't easily done over the phone or zoom.

I do think business travel will be forever changed, but by maybe 10-20%. Anecdotally instead of being on the road 26-32 weeks a year, it's been more like 15-20 weeks this year. Much more manageable and I still get to scratch the itch of getting in front of a customer and doing dinners and ball games in other cities. I'm in Chicago, Boston and NY in December which is always fun for different Christmas festivities when you get to visit and expense.

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closetohumping

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Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, next2naus said:

Sales is a lot science and a lot alchemy. Process and "at bats" lead to wins but some people just don't catch fire sometimes and at some places. WE just had a guy go back to Cisco, I explained the code here and what to do and it just didn't click for him. Every career 300 hitter has a 275 season

Every 300 hitter has gone 0 for 19.  Sometimes you're with the wrong team, swinging at the wrong pitches. 

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closetohumping

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Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, next2naus said:

Always will be. I've been doing the WFH for 20 years in a Field Sales role.  I was always about 50/50 or 60/40 home office to customer facing. I probably tipped those scales to 65/35 once we had kids and moved out of NYC. I got very strategic with going to see clients/prospects face to face and really qualified my time spent. When Covid hit it wasn't much of a transition. Now I'm about to back out of a job I accepted as I don't really want to get back out there and break in a new product and category while Covid is still an issue and getting face time is still a risky prop and difficult as people are not in their offices. 

 

Sure I'll probably have pissed this recruiter and this new company off but on the flip side I got a 15 % bump in comp and mayb issues I had with my employer are being resolved, party in effort to stave off my departure and the attrition of others. better to take a raise right now and the devil I know. 

I'm one month into this one and am already second guessing myself, but I hate quittin.

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MonkeyCigarette

MonkeyCigarette 143

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Posted (edited)

I sell stuff for a company that I think will be one of the handful of trillion dollar companies in the next 10 years and I don't know how big corporate lifers do it. So much big company work and internal selling that makes your day job that much harder. 

The sweet spot for sure is a Series B/C, $1bn+ valuation firm with $250+ revenue and give or take 10% of 2500-3000 employees. In my experience you get the highest salaries, best comp plan and RSUs or options that will actually net big bucks.

But with Tiger Global and Softbank and all the cheap money from the last few years, everyone gets a lot of VC money these days so even being able to determine the wheat from the chaff among that aforementioned sweet spot is getting harder.

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19428

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, MonkeyCigarette said:

Hardware sales, oof. Name a worse ratio to work:compensation plans than selling hardware.

I work for a HW company, but my stuff is mostly software. I can't tell you how sick I get of hardware guys slashing margin on my stuff to make 20 points on the hardware part of the deal. I sell to the SI/SO market, and most of my partners are doing their best to get out of the managed data center business. They are building or buying cloud migration and app modernization practices as fast as they can and bidding outsourcing deals "asset lite" with a cloud migration strategy. 

My company ended up with this cool but kind of niche analytics software product through an acquisition, and no one really knew what to do with it. I saw a presentation of the software 2 years ago and thought one of my customers with a large SMART practice might be interested. I put together an EBC for their Chief Innovation Officer, Cloud Practice lead, and Analytics global lead. They sat through the presentation, asked a bunch of great questions and at the end of the day said "This is great, but it needs to run on something the size of a Raspberry Pi, not eight 2 socket servers". I made a big bet on getting the software suitable for the edge and my SE and I broke a bunch of glass and pissed a lot of people off for 18 months getting it done. I had a terrible year last year and a pretty bad 1H and thought I might get let go, but we kept hammering away at it. The partner had some very successful POCs, but they were struggling to close contracts in the Covid times. They finally signed one over the summer, and the first $5MM in product shipped this fall. I'm currently at 140% of my 2H number, and they've got enough stuff in procurement to get me over 200%. Even better, they signed three more customers this fall for implementations that will start next year. One of them is 40,000 edge sites globally over 3 years and the others are all in the 100s of sites. Yesterday I did a offering kick-off presentation for 200 of our global sellers, and I got 22 emails asking me to set up planning sessions with the partner leads. It's amazing the people coming out of the woodwork to try to grab a piece of this now. People who wouldn't even return my calls last year, and told me very recently I was pissing in the wind are trying to act like they've been involved since the beginning. 

TL:DR, I might buy my SE a Rolex for Christmas. 

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VABuckeye

VABuckeye 2472

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Posted
10 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

That's part of my current problem, I need a ton of Cisco and Fujitsu gear, and single mode fiber, to get my projects completed faster, and lead times are just nuts right now.

You’re having issues getting single mode fiber?  What strand count?  We install a lot of fiber and have no supply chain issues for it. 

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ZB'Tejas

ZB'Tejas 593

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, MonkeyCigarette said:

The sweet spot for sure is a Series B/C, $1bn+ valuation firm with $250+ revenue and give or take 10% of 2500-3000 employees. In my experience you get the highest salaries, best comp plan and RSUs or options that will actually net big bucks.

 

Whew, $1b valuation post Series B. That seems like an outlier

 

21 hours ago, MonkeyCigarette said:

I do think business travel will be forever changed, but by maybe 10-20%. Anecdotally instead of being on the road 26-32 weeks a year, it's been more like 15-20 weeks this year. Much more manageable and I still get to scratch the itch of getting in front of a customer and doing dinners and ball games in other cities. I'm in Chicago, Boston and NY in December which is always fun for different Christmas festivities when you get to visit and expense.

Definitely varies by industry. Pre pandemic I travelled ~2 times a month visiting customer and prospects. Since last March then I've traveled twice and one was for a conference. I'm in SaaS and so far many customers are yet to be back in the office and so many are not allowing vendors to come visit even if we wanted to. I'm guessing some travel will return (especially for existing customers, QBRs, workshops, etc) but I think lots of new prospect selling will continue to be fully virtual.

 

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Pescado_Rojo

Pescado_Rojo 19428

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, ZB'Tejas said:

 

 

Definitely varies by industry. Pre pandemic I travelled ~2 times a month visiting customer and prospects. Since last March then I've traveled twice and one was for a conference. I'm in SaaS and so far many customers are yet to be back in the office and so many are not allowing vendors to come visit even if we wanted to. I'm guessing some travel will return (especially for existing customers, QBRs, workshops, etc) but I think lots of new prospect selling will continue to be fully virtual.

 

Yea, I was 2-3 weeks a month as well. I've traveled twice since last March and both were specific requests from customer execs and both required VP approval on my side. We've been told they are opening travel up in the new FY, which is Feb 7 for us. We've been told SKO will be in person next year, so that's cool.  At this point I think it's just an opex game. Rumor was our Fortune 100 company saved something like $700MM globally in T&E expenses in 2020. I'm sure it's going to be similar this year. 

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MonkeyCigarette

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Posted
2 hours ago, ZB'Tejas said:

Whew, $1b valuation post Series B. That seems like an outlier

 

Definitely varies by industry. Pre pandemic I travelled ~2 times a month visiting customer and prospects. Since last March then I've traveled twice and one was for a conference. I'm in SaaS and so far many customers are yet to be back in the office and so many are not allowing vendors to come visit even if we wanted to. I'm guessing some travel will return (especially for existing customers, QBRs, workshops, etc) but I think lots of new prospect selling will continue to be fully virtual.

 

In my experience, Series A used to be nominal and Series B used to be a step above, but it really does feel like since 2018 or so (and rapidly expanded through the pandemic with, like I said, Tiger Global disrupting VC) it's not uncommon to see $100mm+ Series A/B's...

And yea definitely varies by industry-- I've done SaaS sales and consulting and delivery work and even product marketing/management for new GTM SaaS products and I think pure play SaaS sales is still behind other functions on getting back to "normal" to travel for day-to-day.

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MonkeyCigarette

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Posted
1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

I'm loving the hardware boys complaining about their tribulations.  Software sales is a beyotch!!!  I guess the grass is greener.  I've thought about going back into hardware, but maybe not.

Maybe it's my software bias showing, but hardware sales is a commoditized category for B-team sales players to go slang gear. Hardware sales folks aren't as respected and the gigs aren't as prestigious and sure there are some folks that make great money in the right situations, but the averages are bad and this isn't 2005 selling Cisco or Palo Alto in 2010 or whenever the golden age was. 

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MonkeyCigarette

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Posted
17 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I work for a HW company, but my stuff is mostly software. I can't tell you how sick I get of hardware guys slashing margin on my stuff to make 20 points on the hardware part of the deal. I sell to the SI/SO market, and most of my partners are doing their best to get out of the managed data center business. They are building or buying cloud migration and app modernization practices as fast as they can and bidding outsourcing deals "asset lite" with a cloud migration strategy. 

My company ended up with this cool but kind of niche analytics software product through an acquisition, and no one really knew what to do with it. I saw a presentation of the software 2 years ago and thought one of my customers with a large SMART practice might be interested. I put together an EBC for their Chief Innovation Officer, Cloud Practice lead, and Analytics global lead. They sat through the presentation, asked a bunch of great questions and at the end of the day said "This is great, but it needs to run on something the size of a Raspberry Pi, not eight 2 socket servers". I made a big bet on getting the software suitable for the edge and my SE and I broke a bunch of glass and pissed a lot of people off for 18 months getting it done. I had a terrible year last year and a pretty bad 1H and thought I might get let go, but we kept hammering away at it. The partner had some very successful POCs, but they were struggling to close contracts in the Covid times. They finally signed one over the summer, and the first $5MM in product shipped this fall. I'm currently at 140% of my 2H number, and they've got enough stuff in procurement to get me over 200%. Even better, they signed three more customers this fall for implementations that will start next year. One of them is 40,000 edge sites globally over 3 years and the others are all in the 100s of sites. Yesterday I did a offering kick-off presentation for 200 of our global sellers, and I got 22 emails asking me to set up planning sessions with the partner leads. It's amazing the people coming out of the woodwork to try to grab a piece of this now. People who wouldn't even return my calls last year, and told me very recently I was pissing in the wind are trying to act like they've been involved since the beginning. 

TL:DR, I might buy my SE a Rolex for Christmas. 

I'm probably not telling you anything you don't know here, but

1) Amazing job. This is probably the most impressive thing I've read on this site/thread of impressive people and accomplishments.

2) You need to memorialize this journey, with milestones and dates and then quantified as you did here, put it together in a pitch deck/presentation, get a handful of champions/executive sponsors that truly do deserve the credit for sticking with you (assuming you needed the help to break said glass and keep your job after 18 months of being a drag on the bottom line) and shop yourself both internally and externally. What you lived through is an SVP or Managing Director type job responsibility as you created a new profit center and go-to-market new product and now you are leading the roll-out and enablement of the field sales and marketing teams. Get paid big bucks for that.

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closetohumping

closetohumping 17462

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I work for a HW company, but my stuff is mostly software. I can't tell you how sick I get of hardware guys slashing margin on my stuff to make 20 points on the hardware part of the deal. I sell to the SI/SO market, and most of my partners are doing their best to get out of the managed data center business. They are building or buying cloud migration and app modernization practices as fast as they can and bidding outsourcing deals "asset lite" with a cloud migration strategy. 

My company ended up with this cool but kind of niche analytics software product through an acquisition, and no one really knew what to do with it. I saw a presentation of the software 2 years ago and thought one of my customers with a large SMART practice might be interested. I put together an EBC for their Chief Innovation Officer, Cloud Practice lead, and Analytics global lead. They sat through the presentation, asked a bunch of great questions and at the end of the day said "This is great, but it needs to run on something the size of a Raspberry Pi, not eight 2 socket servers". I made a big bet on getting the software suitable for the edge and my SE and I broke a bunch of glass and pissed a lot of people off for 18 months getting it done. I had a terrible year last year and a pretty bad 1H and thought I might get let go, but we kept hammering away at it. The partner had some very successful POCs, but they were struggling to close contracts in the Covid times. They finally signed one over the summer, and the first $5MM in product shipped this fall. I'm currently at 140% of my 2H number, and they've got enough stuff in procurement to get me over 200%. Even better, they signed three more customers this fall for implementations that will start next year. One of them is 40,000 edge sites globally over 3 years and the others are all in the 100s of sites. Yesterday I did a offering kick-off presentation for 200 of our global sellers, and I got 22 emails asking me to set up planning sessions with the partner leads. It's amazing the people coming out of the woodwork to try to grab a piece of this now. People who wouldn't even return my calls last year, and told me very recently I was pissing in the wind are trying to act like they've been involved since the beginning. 

TL:DR, I might buy my SE a Rolex for Christmas. 

Now I'm glad I sell software

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next2naus

next2naus 439

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Quote

 Series B/C, $1bn+ valuation firm with $250+ revenue and give or take 10% of 2500-3000 employees

Thats a rare combo. Most Series B/C (Non Unicorns) are  between 15 and 40 million in revenue and between 100 and 175 employees. Being a B or C with $250m in rev could easily result in a $1B valuation but there just are not that many of those and many of those out there are not built to last and their short life will likely result in being acquired. 

if the company has 2500-3000 employees...it's gonna be big and mature. 

the VC money doesn't always mean success, look at Wiz.....they are at Series C w/ $600m in funding and 180+ ppl. As far as I can tell it's growth by hiring, not a place for a Seller to be long term. Lot's or reps with small patches is how that typically works out.

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next2naus

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6 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Thanks for that insight, it really explains a lot - especially the part about not being built to last and the acquisition aspect.  That's the exact situation that I'm in, but I jumped in willingly after 10 years in a mind-numbing yet lucrative Fortune 100 job.

And that's ok too. Sometimes knowing the likely outcome is helpful. I'm been bought and sold, all good. Sometimes you the smaller/start up shop gets acquired and you get incentives to stay for a year or two before you are folded into the big shops comp plan. For that period of time you are the shiny new toy and the overlay and its money money money till its not. 

The place I'm at, there were maybe 150 of us when I joined 7 years ago and it was a diamond in the ruff that had been around for 10 years and everyone had forgotten about it. We grew (350ppl), we merged (750), we acquired (2500 ppl in our BU) and we are a part of a (60K ppl) global organization that builds electrical systems and provides services for the aerospace, defence, transportation and security markets.

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MonkeyCigarette

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49 minutes ago, next2naus said:

Thats a rare combo. Most Series B/C (Non Unicorns) are  between 15 and 40 million in revenue and between 100 and 175 employees. Being a B or C with $250m in rev could easily result in a $1B valuation but there just are not that many of those and many of those out there are not built to last and their short life will likely result in being acquired. 

if the company has 2500-3000 employees...it's gonna be big and mature. 

the VC money doesn't always mean success, look at Wiz.....they are at Series C w/ $600m in funding and 180+ ppl. As far as I can tell it's growth by hiring, not a place for a Seller to be long term. Lot's or reps with small patches is how that typically works out.

Quote

Between 2005 and 2010, only 14 companies reached the coveted status (Unicorn). By 2020, that number jumped to 161. In just the first six months of 2021, there have been 250 unicorns created, 153 of which are headquartered in the U.S.

Series A-C unicorns make up 33.1% of the unicorns (the rest being Series D-G, private equity and secondary markets).

Roughly 1/3.

image.thumb.png.28d3b4e76d5af989ee7f1afea843d5e1.png

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MonkeyCigarette

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21 hours ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I work for a HW company, but my stuff is mostly software. I can't tell you how sick I get of hardware guys slashing margin on my stuff to make 20 points on the hardware part of the deal. I sell to the SI/SO market, and most of my partners are doing their best to get out of the managed data center business. They are building or buying cloud migration and app modernization practices as fast as they can and bidding outsourcing deals "asset lite" with a cloud migration strategy. 

Stat: Here’s a three-for-one from Nvidia’s Q3 earnings: 1) Its data-center sales jumped 55% year over year, to $2.9 billion 2) Its valuation topped $800 billion on Thursday, putting it right behind Meta 3) Its execs used the term “omniverse” 36 times on the earnings call.

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HoustonFrog

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Yea, I was 2-3 weeks a month as well. I've traveled twice since last March and both were specific requests from customer execs and both required VP approval on my side. We've been told they are opening travel up in the new FY, which is Feb 7 for us. We've been told SKO will be in person next year, so that's cool.  At this point I think it's just an opex game. Rumor was our Fortune 100 company saved something like $700MM globally in T&E expenses in 2020. I'm sure it's going to be similar this year. 

Just curious how you sales people who have traveled extensively have handled this sudden change. Most sales people I know enjoy the travel aspect, it’s a reason they do the job. Can’t imagine that being taken away is easy.

On the other hand, a good friend is in restructuring consulting at a large player and the downside of his job (from his view) is the travel and being in a hotel ~150-200 nights/year depending on the year. That suddenly got removed so his job is out of this world good now
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