Life and Death of a Salesman

[Pescado_Rojo 19427]

8 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Yep.

 

Anyways, do you think the industry will flip back to geo-territory mode?  RIght now, it's verticalized so I have customers everywhere.  Besides, in enterprise, customers are everywhere.

I'm thinking hard of leaving SoCal and Vegas is under consideration.  However, I don't want to be hosed if the industry flips again.

Our shop does both. Our commercial division is pretty much Geo, with some specialty practices like healthcare vertical within the geo. Our enterprise business is pretty vertically aligned. 

[Vegas64 677]

@closetohumping 

1) Depending on your industry and what you sell, for professional services, consulting, and strategic software (platform, 1st tier partner type software), I don't foresee a geo-based territory or accounts model. You see that more with more immature and emerging firms anyways, but once you reach a certain point, industry expertise and point of view is too valuable than having generalists who manage 18 different accounts across 8 different industries who know a little bit about everything but a lot about nothing.

2) Weird to hear there are still companies limiting or not letting their field sales travel. Travel has been full bore since Q4 of last year and in person events and trade shows are in full swing. I would personally like a break from the travel having been in NYC, Chicago, Denver, Dallas and Austin the past 3 weeks.

 

Edited May 23, 2022 by Vegas64

[AUS-97HORN 11814]

2 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

@closetohumping 

2) Weird to hear there are still companies limiting or not letting their field sales travel. Travel has been full bore since Q4 of last year and in person events and trade shows are in full swing. I would personally like a break from the travel having been in NYC, Chicago, Denver, Dallas and Austin the past 3 weeks.

a lot of companies are worried that if their sales people somehow become the Typhoid Mary of Covid and manage to lead, start, or be a super-spreader event that the company with the largest pockets could somehow become subject to a loss of business lawsuit or some shit like that.

 

[Vegas64 677]

22 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

a lot of companies are worried that if their sales people somehow become the Typhoid Mary of Covid and manage to lead, start, or be a super-spreader event that the company with the largest pockets could somehow become subject to a loss of business lawsuit or some shit like that.

 

Interesting. Fair enough.

[BearSchlong 8109]

Just received ny first software sales commission check.

Kicking myself for not doing this the last 20 years.

[BearSchlong 8109]

Commission accelerators at the redline, on the last morning of the FY. I’m serving prime at tonight’s dinner party.

Sleep well, you in-house counselors, with dreams of different redlines dancing in your heads. Well done.

[HamsterHookah 112]

23 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Commission accelerators at the redline, on the last morning of the FY. I’m serving prime at tonight’s dinner party.

Sleep well, you in-house counselors, with dreams of different redlines dancing in your heads. Well done.

Way to go; it seems you chose IBM at the right time. It's all about the 3 T's in this wild world of sales: Territory, Talent and Timing. You nailed the last one.

[Guest]

I'm gonna finish the year 2% and change over my target/ hurdle/ quota.

Should be a banner bonus for Q4.

[HamsterHookah 112]

AWS & SFDC the latest to announce huge cuts. I feel bad for anyone in legacy tech and legacy SaaS sales who were affected; seems like a ton of huge companies are dispensing with folks lately.

[Buzzrock 14936]

New gig, same company, starts today. Running one of our top accounts. Gonna be a shitshow.

Good luck out there in the trenches fellas, could be a weird year.

[next2naus 439]

"It's all about the 3 T's in this wild world of sales: Territory, Talent and Timing."

 

I left my last gig of 8 years back in August. It was home-run city but I needed s change of scenery. New gig is in same ballpark but adjacent security solutions and lots of former colleagues from the last place so that made it feel like a smart move with with some folks inside I could lean on. Stayed in my Metro NYC role supporting existing clients and closing new logos, little cross-sell, upsell, renewal biz and new logos. Sounds good right? Fast-forward to December and we laid off 18-20% of company, they also are making us pay for some of out healthcare which was previously 100% company paid, still saving me about a $800-$1K a month. RIFF was mostly in Marketing and Sales. Fortunately (?) I made a good impression on the CEO and new CRO and they kept me. I landed in a New Logo role (I like to hunt) and I get to report to a guy I know from the old shop who likes to close deals so thats good. Now I get all of NY,NJ, DE, PA, CT and RI. Way too big of a territory, but hey...thats a good problem. 

The convo about getting back to normal and face to face....most of IT is still working remote and plans to remain doing so. With the Macro economic picture, don't be surprised if this doesn't change as organizations can save on real estate costs, leases will kill a business. the ongoing WFH makes is hard to see people IMHO. I hate all this Zoom shit, I miss my milage expenses. I miss fucking around in the city, frankly...I'm home around the wife and kids too damn much

[HamsterHookah 112]

30 minutes ago, next2naus said:

"It's all about the 3 T's in this wild world of sales: Territory, Talent and Timing."

 

I left my last gig of 8 years back in August. It was home-run city but I needed s change of scenery. New gig is in same ballpark but adjacent security solutions and lots of former colleagues from the last place so that made it feel like a smart move with with some folks inside I could lean on. Stayed in my Metro NYC role supporting existing clients and closing new logos, little cross-sell, upsell, renewal biz and new logos. Sounds good right? Fast-forward to December and we laid off 18-20% of company, they also are making us pay for some of out healthcare which was previously 100% company paid, still saving me about a $800-$1K a month. RIFF was mostly in Marketing and Sales. Fortunately (?) I made a good impression on the CEO and new CRO and they kept me. I landed in a New Logo role (I like to hunt) and I get to report to a guy I know from the old shop who likes to close deals so thats good. Now I get all of NY,NJ, DE, PA, CT and RI. Way too big of a territory, but hey...thats a good problem. 

The convo about getting back to normal and face to face....most of IT is still working remote and plans to remain doing so. With the Macro economic picture, don't be surprised if this doesn't change as organizations can save on real estate costs, leases will kill a business. the ongoing WFH makes is hard to see people IMHO. I hate all this Zoom shit, I miss my milage expenses. I miss fucking around in the city, frankly...I'm home around the wife and kids too damn much

I read this and feel seen and validated. I spent a decade flying out Sunday night or Monday AM and flying home Thursday. Still getting used to life in the home office and it feels like a trap sometimes.

Good luck with your new gig and territory! The good news is you have a good job, the bad news is it won't be an easier selling to the G2K in 2023 than it was in 2022.

[Pescado_Rojo 19427]

34 minutes ago, next2naus said:

"It's all about the 3 T's in this wild world of sales: Territory, Talent and Timing."

 

I left my last gig of 8 years back in August. It was home-run city but I needed s change of scenery. New gig is in same ballpark but adjacent security solutions and lots of former colleagues from the last place so that made it feel like a smart move with with some folks inside I could lean on. Stayed in my Metro NYC role supporting existing clients and closing new logos, little cross-sell, upsell, renewal biz and new logos. Sounds good right? Fast-forward to December and we laid off 18-20% of company, they also are making us pay for some of out healthcare which was previously 100% company paid, still saving me about a $800-$1K a month. RIFF was mostly in Marketing and Sales. Fortunately (?) I made a good impression on the CEO and new CRO and they kept me. I landed in a New Logo role (I like to hunt) and I get to report to a guy I know from the old shop who likes to close deals so thats good. Now I get all of NY,NJ, DE, PA, CT and RI. Way too big of a territory, but hey...thats a good problem. 

The convo about getting back to normal and face to face....most of IT is still working remote and plans to remain doing so. With the Macro economic picture, don't be surprised if this doesn't change as organizations can save on real estate costs, leases will kill a business. the ongoing WFH makes is hard to see people IMHO. I hate all this Zoom shit, I miss my milage expenses. I miss fucking around in the city, frankly...I'm home around the wife and kids too damn much

[Hollywood 342]

Man, as much as I hate working conferences, its the only way to get on an airplane these days. Agree with the Zoom sentiment... miss being in front of a room doing the deck/demo dance. 

[HamsterHookah 112]

Google-- announced 10k layoffs today. Amazon 18k, Meta 12k, Salesforce 8k and Microsoft 10k.

All you sales bros alright out there?

[AUS-97HORN 11814]

I earned a pretty good promotion into a specialized role halfway through the year. Which was a nice TTC bump.  But I may have ended up promoting myself out of a gig

I anticipate we are gonna see a cut in about 3 weeks -probably most heavily impacting the outside team, but not sure how bad, could be a light pruning, or they could be going for the jugular like those 5 above did.

which sucks because despite my performance being in the top 1/3rd of my department, and that I blended above 125% for this current fiscal year, I will finish the current quarter around 97% to plan... which might be all they give a shit about and gives them an opportunity to come after me.

[HamsterHookah 112]

23 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

I earned a pretty good promotion into a specialized role halfway through the year. Which was a nice TTC bump.  But I may have ended up promoting myself out of a gig

I anticipate we are gonna see a cut in about 3 weeks -probably most heavily impacting the outside team, but not sure how bad, could be a light pruning, or they could be going for the jugular like those 5 above did.

which sucks because despite my performance being in the top 1/3rd of my department, and that I blended above 125% for this current fiscal year, I will finish the current quarter around 97% to plan... which might be all they give a shit about and gives them an opportunity to come after me.

Most of the bigger firms, at least the ones we are talking about here (MSFT, GOOG, CRM, AMZN, META, etc.) cull from a stack ranking, based on a rolling 6-8 quarters, from what I understand. That means that if you are 80%+ to plan you are likely safe based on performance, right?

[AUS-97HORN 11814]

46 minutes ago, HamsterHookah said:

Most of the bigger firms, at least the ones we are talking about here (MSFT, GOOG, CRM, AMZN, META, etc.) cull from a stack ranking, based on a rolling 6-8 quarters, from what I understand. That means that if you are 80%+ to plan you are likely safe based on performance, right?

I mean there is theory, and then there is whatever they fuck these guys will do.

 

The last major culling which by my count was roughly 5% of all managers and outside sales force, caught up 2 of the most experienced and honestly best managers I have ever worked with, both of whom were on the short list for the next-level promotion, and both had a POSITIVE L4Q and L8Q quota attainment.

And both of them were part of a protected class, the 2nd was a triple protected class (race, gender, sexual preference).  didnt save her, or them.

Edited January 20, 2023 by AUS-97HORN

[HamsterHookah 112]

1 minute ago, AUS-97HORN said:

I mean there is theory, and then there is whatever they fuck these guys will do.

 

The last major culling which by my count was roughly 5% of all managers and outside sales force, caught up 2 of the most experienced and honestly best managers I have ever worked with, both of whom were on the short list for the next-level promotion, and both had a POSITIVE L4Q and L8Q quota attainment.

And yet both of them were part of a protected class, the 2nd was a triple protected class (race, gender, sexual preference).  didnt save her, or them.

Well good luck man and let us know. In a “Check in safe from layoffs on Facebook” sort of way when you survive.

[BearSchlong 8109]

My manager told me our company typically cuts outside salespeople last, and I did 241% last half (my first half in software). I’m still so new that I’m basically the Forrest Gump of AIOps.

It doesn’t hurt that my flagship ARM offering is designed to optimize licensing and cut IT estate creep and cloud costs.

[HamsterHookah 112]

43 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

My manager told me our company typically cuts outside salespeople last, and I did 241% last half (my first half in software). I’m still so new that I’m basically the Forrest Gump of AIOps.

It doesn’t hurt that my flagship ARM offering is designed to optimize licensing and cut IT estate creep and cloud costs.

I know a lot of those old Turbonomic guys (IBM ARM acquisition); a few have struggled to find new gigs, which is neither here nor there.

[Nonbryan 173]

I have a question......when is and when isn't a salesperson responsible for the retention of a customer?  Is the answer 100% of the time?  What if a product or service levels are below expectations.  Is there ever a time the responsibility shifts?

[blacklab 11943]

It depends on the company.

I've been places the salesperson got a spiff on renewals so they were all over the customer.

At my current place our customer service department is 100% responsible.

[Handcruser 2805]

I have a question......when is and when isn't a salesperson responsible for the retention of a customer?  Is the answer 100% of the time?  What if a product or service levels are below expectations.  Is there ever a time the responsibility shifts?

As Bob said - depends on the company and the role.

And either way, the company usually doesn’t give a shit if the product or service sucks. Sell it or walk.

There are some outliers. For sure.

[AUS-97HORN 11814]

In my 25 years of experience, its always the salereps fault.    doesnt matter if the quality of the product went to shit, the specs changed alienating the customer, or my personal favorite, losing a deal based soley on the price of the deal---- where the company tells you they are going to refuse to lose any deal to competitor X.

Competitor X then comes in 30% below our bid, we take that real, verified pricing to upper management, who then.... REFUSE TO PRICE MATCH.   

Lose the deal, and the customer, along with 60% of your annual quota retirement, and then get told at the EOY review where you crawled back 80% of your number that you failed as a rep... no responsibiity from the company of course and being let go "for cause"   happend once to me, but Ive seen it easily 50+ times. 

[AUS-97HORN 11814]

I did have one coworker like 6 or 7 years ago that lost their only customer in that exact situation and he basically  quiet quit,  did the absolute bare minimum to keep getting his draw check while rocking a 2% attainment, and spent the next 4 months applying for and interviewing with other companies before he got an offer that more than doubled his target pay. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by AUS-97HORN

[blacklab 11943]

I wonder how many more billions in sales dell would have if they didn't treat their sales team like absolute dog shit.

[Handcruser 2805]

I wonder how many more billions in sales dell would have if they didn't treat their sales team like absolute dog shit.

Approx 350b

[Guest]

In today's world, cost can absolutely crush a relationship.  Have had plenty of conversations, "Hey we love ya, but if that's best you can do; we're going in another direction."

Yeah, i don't set the price.  i can't kick in a new set of tires to persuade a fucking mid 6-figure deal.

[blacklab 11943]

My favorite dell story is a guy who had a deal at a large oil company to replace all of their desktops and had a second deal working at a different large oil company. Day before he closes deal 1 he gets his quota changed to a number bigger than the deal. Fucked him out of over $100k in commission. He leaves, the second deal doesn't go through, losing second deal costs dell tens of millions in sales. Biggest real world passing up dollars to pick up pennies I've ever heard. 

He goes to work at another computer company in town. Gets a big deal working, 2.5 times bigger than their previous year total sales for the company. New company hires the exec that fucked him at dell to be his new boss. She changes his comp package he quits, deal goes south, company no longer in business.   

[Handcruser 2805]

My favorite dell story is a guy who had a deal at a large oil company to replace all of their desktops and had a second deal working at a different large oil company. Day before he closes deal 1 he gets his quota changed to a number bigger than the deal. Fucked him out of over $100k in commission. He leaves, the second deal doesn't go through, losing second deal costs dell tens of millions in sales. Biggest real world passing up dollars to pick up pennies I've ever heard. 
He goes to work at another computer company in town. Gets a big deal working, 2.5 times bigger than their previous year total sales for the company. New company hires the exec that fucked him at dell to be his new boss. She changes his comp package he quits, deal goes south, company no longer in business.   

Lol. Sounds like Dell.

When I worked there the Boeing (I think) rep had a quota of 10m or whatever. Boeing makes a surprise purchase /move etc and they order like 50m worth of shit (5x his quota) and he’s super pumped for that sweet sweet bonus check.

They told him to read the fine print and gave him a 25k bonus or whatever instead of the 500k he was due.

He left. So did I.

[ClubWhatever 12154]

dell is e ville.  Like the dev ill.  

[animaltobacco11 107]

1 hour ago, Handcruser said:

Lol. Sounds like Dell.

When I worked there the Boeing (I think) rep had a quota of 10m or whatever. Boeing makes a surprise purchase /move etc and they order like 50m worth of shit (5x his quota) and he’s super pumped for that sweet sweet bonus check.

They told him to read the fine print and gave him a 25k bonus or whatever instead of the 500k he was due.

He left. So did I.

Big deal outlier clauses are common.

Selling hardware is for the B team and these companies know it, so companies like Dell (or Cisco or etc. etc.) treat them like cattle.

[blacklab 11943]

What's funny is their corporate culture is still hardware is most important.

They would rather sell a $10 million dollar hardware deal with a 3% profit margin and throw in EMC for free than sell $8 million worth of hardware and $2 million of software that has a 90% profit margin.

 

[closetohumping 17456]

I’m doing so well right now but I feel like the rug will be pulled out anytime now

[BearSchlong 8109]

If you didn’t feel that way something would be wrong.

[closetohumping 17456]

3 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

If you didn’t feel that way something would be wrong.

Cheers....with a N/A topo chico.  I am in charge of sales and we're doing so well that they're hiring more implementation members (last year they let a few go because they were dead). 

 

But, and I love WLB, I'm super aggressive and need my support team to be as well.  Match my energy, let's get stuff done.  Instead, we get 4 day work weeks and hikes while sales (and customers) is waiting for pricing approval.

 

But I love it here, I really do.

[Nivek 16973]

In my 25 years of experience, its always the salereps fault.    doesnt matter if the quality of the product went to shit, the specs changed alienating the customer, or my personal favorite, losing a deal based soley on the price of the deal---- where the company tells you they are going to refuse to lose any deal to competitor X.
Competitor X then comes in 30% below our bid, we take that real, verified pricing to upper management, who then.... REFUSE TO PRICE MATCH.   
Lose the deal, and the customer, along with 60% of your annual quota retirement, and then get told at the EOY review where you crawled back 80% of your number that you failed as a rep... no responsibiity from the company of course and being let go "for cause"   happend once to me, but Ive seen it easily 50+ times. 

As a former tech guy it was amazing how sales people would fuck up so badly and skate from responsibility. Not following up on leads. Not calling the customer after. Not keeping in touch during the project. Not showing up for the presentation, getting the wrong time for a meeting, setting the wrong agenda, not being prepared at all, etc.

The good sales people were always on top of stuff like this. They were a huge asset to the organization and helped build relationships beyond what the tech guys could do. The mediocre to bad sales people rode their coattails and undid so much goodwill and then tried to blame the service/product for not working.

I have told people point blank, “this won’t work”. Sales were pissed, client was pissed. I have told them, I don’t know if this will work but we can minimize the risk to you by doing x, or cutting costs by doing y. Shit the good sales people were miles ahead of me on.

The only challenge was sometimes they would try to push the science/technology beyond what we could do at the moment, or what we could offer. Those were fun conversations to have in front of the client when shit didn’t work, it wasn’t vetted, and everyone is pissed off at you for not polishing the turd from the north west territories in your downtime while having an idiot boss ask you to do impossibly stupid tasks which were a total waste of effort, only to then have them wonder why it didn’t work and then the next few days wonder why you did what they asked because they forgot the conversation and your objections.

[PDX_Horn 24]

Looking to get into the software sales (B2B) game and was wondering if anyone had leads for the Austin area? Can PM as well and would appreciate any feedback or advice. Worked in telephone B2C sales but eventually said fuck that noise

[tx 3 putt 77314]

On 8/26/2023 at 7:50 PM, blacklab said:

My favorite dell story is a guy who had a deal at a large oil company to replace all of their desktops and had a second deal working at a different large oil company. Day before he closes deal 1 he gets his quota changed to a number bigger than the deal. Fucked him out of over $100k in commission. He leaves, the second deal doesn't go through, losing second deal costs dell tens of millions in sales. Biggest real world passing up dollars to pick up pennies I've ever heard. 

He goes to work at another computer company in town. Gets a big deal working, 2.5 times bigger than their previous year total sales for the company. New company hires the exec that fucked him at dell to be his new boss. She changes his comp package he quits, deal goes south, company no longer in business.   

a pasT company changed my yearly quota in mid oct, after finally looking at my q4 forecast. I refused to sign it, whatever. I was gone in 10 days my new company matched that bonus as a sign on bonus 

[closetohumping 17456]

Exhausted

[closetohumping 17456]

On 8/26/2023 at 9:29 PM, blacklab said:

What's funny is their corporate culture is still hardware is most important.

They would rather sell a $10 million dollar hardware deal with a 3% profit margin and throw in EMC for free than sell $8 million worth of hardware and $2 million of software that has a 90% profit margin.

 

Sounds like Dell

[Buzzrock 14936]

By now we all know that Splunk was acquired by Cisco last week or so for $28bn.
But I learned today, from someone I trust to be factual and truthful on the matter, was that Splunk had a sales guy who made $50 million+ in a year. The CEO spoke about it at the GKO in Vegas, the guy had been there for 10+ years, hit club every year, and that year was just extraordinary. The CEO allegedly explained how, after a shock, he was happy to pay it and share it as an example.
Crazy!

Seems unlikely. Our comp plan has a clause that says they can change whatever they want whenever they want, and I know of at least one occasion when someone had a landmark deal and they capped her. She still made a lot that year but not exactly what the comp plan math said.

[Pescado_Rojo 19427]

How's it going, sales bros? Just got signed contracts back for the largest deal in my pipeline, so I'm in the bonus with a couple months left in our FY.

 

It's been a feast or famine year for me. Almost all big deals and very little run rate business. I've survived two rounds of layoffs, picked up coverage of a couple more global alliance partners, and have been busier than shit the past 6 months...mostly reactive, sadly. At the end of the FY, I've got a great chance to be at 150-180% of plan, but I'm starting to get bored with it. April '24 will be 7 years in this roll...might be time to start looking around. 

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

After 15 years in education, this was my first full year in sales. Full cycle AE selling to school districts. It’s relatively entry level but I picked up some extra projects, hit my number and won some minor internal awards. Talked to some other companies that could easily double my current comp…..which is already the most I’ve ever made. 

This job can be a complete kick in the dick. It can also be amazing. Seeing the possibilities out there definitely keeps me motivated. 

[next2naus 439]

3 hours ago, BeardIP said:

Question for you sales gurus:

What are some things you do for your supporting teammates when you close a monster deal or have a monster year? Like you guys who earn $500k+ ($1mm?) I've heard some folks will fly out their team to a Caribbean resort or get an Airbnb on the beach somewhere, etc.

One guy I know told me it was like the star QB buying his lineman Rolex's for Christmas; you want to keep the guys and gals in the trenches happy.

I'm thinking of doing something for my team, not really sales, but making like a deal toy or some commemorative item for a good job done on a project this year and thought sales masters would know the best way to approach something like this.

well...generally some of their comp is tied to yours so if you rock it out, they get paid too. That being said, I buy drinks and meals for my SA all year no matter how good or bad it is. If we knock it out of the park, I'll do something nice for my SDRs/ one year I took everyone to dinner at Per se...that was fun. 

[Handcruser 2805]

Question for you sales gurus:
What are some things you do for your supporting teammates when you close a monster deal or have a monster year? Like you guys who earn $500k+ ($1mm?) I've heard some folks will fly out their team to a Caribbean resort or get an Airbnb on the beach somewhere, etc.
One guy I know told me it was like the star QB buying his lineman Rolex's for Christmas; you want to keep the guys and gals in the trenches happy.
I'm thinking of doing something for my team, not really sales, but making like a deal toy or some commemorative item for a good job done on a project this year and thought sales masters would know the best way to approach something like this.

Individualize it.

Someone likes to hunt - book them a trip.

Chick likes facials (ha) - book her a luxury spa day.

We dont give a shit about plaques or commemorative cups. That’s for Aggy.

We also dont all want to do something together for a job well done usually. I’d rather you give me a gift card to a nice restaurant than go hang out with Ralph and his bad breath at dinner. I don’t like Ralph.

Individualize it.

[tx 3 putt 77314]

Nice dinner is more than enough

[next2naus 439]

company went being on the precipice of acquiring two other companies (a competitor and an adjacent) to being acquired by a complimentary partner. crazy times.  

[Larry T. Spider 1747]

Been in a new role for 3.5 months with the first month being onboarding. I sell to school districts so it’s get something across the finish line this month or wait until next year. 

Have a proposal out that would get me to my fake onboarding quota. Totally fine if it doesn’t happen in terms of job security because nobody really expected me to get this far this quickly. I also have a good base so I will be fine financially. 

Usually takes 6-12 months to get a deal done. However it’s still nerve wracking to either hit a home run or strike out with no in between. I’ve teed this one up about as well as possible so now it’s just a waiting game.