An Old Fashioned

[Macanudo 13012]

This could be an entry into the bourbon thread but it would get lost.  I've always like a really good Old Fashioned.    I've never made one at home until recently.  

Normally I like a traditional version of the drink but I'm not a purist.   A couple of weeks ago I had Backstreet Cafe's frou-frou version:

Bourbon, praline liqueur, Dolin Rouge, Orange Bitters, Peychaud Bitters spiced simple syrup.

Yes, I know that's not a classic version of it.   It was good but not great.   I enjoyed it as an aperitif but would most definitely not make it at home.   

A few nights later, I had a pretty classic version at Houston's on Westheimer:

Rittenhouse Rye Whiskey, Orange Bitters, Orange Twist

Now this was sublime.   

When I look at recipes, there are the muddled sugar cube/bitters ones vs. the simple syrup/bitters ones.  I have never seen a recipe like Houston's that skipped any sugar.   Is that normal at all?

Over the past few days, I've tried making a simple syrup/bitters version with Basil Hayden and Willet.   Both were around average.   But not what I want.   Is the bourbon?   Or something else?  

What am I doing wrong? ***

 

 

***  Yes, I realize that how a drink tastes is completely subjective.

 

 

 

[Biscuits And Groovy 21]

Muddled sugar and simple syrup is all the same taste wise. IMO the real trick is how you mix the bourbon into the drink. Here’s what I do and it works consistently every time. 

 

1/4oz 1:1 home made simple syrup, Agnostura or Old Fashioned Bitters of whatever brand to taste. Stir to combine. Pour in 1oz of whatever bourbon you want as long as it’s good enough to sip neat. Stir to combine. Add ice and stir at least 30 seconds to dilute. Then top with 1.5oz of the same bourbon and garnish, I use one or two Luxardo cherries. When I wanna get fancy I’ll do a Luxardo maraschino liquor rinse in the glass for a little added flavor. Really the most important thing to do is to dilute that first oz before topping with the rest of the bourbon. It gives the first few sips the right balance and mouthfeel. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Biscuits And Groovy

[HouTex 1894]

IMO, simple syrup doesn't work as well as sugar dissolved with bitters and a little water.  I think it's something about heating up the sugar.  An OF is my favorite cocktail.  

[Texaskimo 135]

My personal preference is to toss a sugar cube, bitters, and a maraschino cherry into the glass and muddle the sugar and bitters together (give the cherry a hit or two as well, but don't smash it to pieces). Then, add in your bourbon, 1.5-2 oz. Stir this until the sugar is almost all dissolved (it's OK if you get impatient). Then drop in an ice ball, or ice cubes I guess but the ball doesn't melt as fast so it doesn't water stuff down so much. Delicious.

[BurntOrange&White 40009]

Nothing beats a good HJ sometimes. 

[Macanudo 13012]

Not opposed to muddling  a sugar cube.   Part of the ideal of making  a great drink is in the technique.   But is there that much of a difference between a muddled sugar cube and simple syrup?

[Biscuits And Groovy 21]

Scientifically, no. If your sugar cube is the same as the sugar in your simple syrup it’s the same. And 1/4oz of 1:1 is the same sweetness as 1 sugar cube. The muddling process can be it’s own nice little thing. Like rolling a joint, it can be somewhat meditative. But the taste will be the same, imo. 

[UnivTex34 1763]

Rye. Stop using Bourbon. Drink Bourbon straight. Use Rye for your OF. Everyone has something different that they like. I’m very heavy on the bitters, and will mix in some Orange bitters with my angostura on occasion. Also, if you are adding a cherry, for the love of god, don’t  use a shitty maraschino. Buy a Luxardo jar.

Old Overholt is your best rye bet unless you want to drop some coin. I use cubes, but a tsp of sugar will work if you don’t have one. I’m not a fan of simple syrup for an OF, but that is just personal preference. Use a single big cube of ice as well. Silicone molds are cheap.

[UnivTex34 1763]

https://imgur.com/a/Z2LYX

Edited March 27, 2018 by UnivTex34

[Texaskimo 135]

3 minutes ago, UnivTex34 said:

Rye. Stop using Bourbon. Drink Bourbon straight. Use Rye for your OF. Everyone has something different that they like. I’m very heavy on the bitters, and will mix in some Orange bitters with my angostura on occasion. Also, if you are adding a cherry, for the love of god, don’t  use a shitty maraschino. Buy a Luxardo jar.

Old Overholt is your best rye bet unless you want to drop some coin. I use cubes, but a tsp of sugar will work if you don’t have one. I’m not a fan of simple syrup for an OF, but that is just personal preference. Use a single big cube of ice as well. Silicone molds are cheap.

Which brings me to my next point. I completely fucked up in my last post by saying add 1.5-2 oz bourbon. I almost exclusively use rye, specifically Templeton 4 year aged rye. It's a decent (to me) price under $30 and makes a damn delicious old fashioned. I rarely use it for anything other than mixing old fashioneds.

[UnivTex34 1763]

1 minute ago, Texaskimo said:

Which brings me to my next point. I completely fucked up in my last post by saying add 1.5-2 oz bourbon. I almost exclusively use rye, specifically Templeton 4 year aged rye. It's a decent (to me) price under $30 and makes a damn delicious old fashioned. I rarely use it for anything other than mixing old fashioneds.

I do like Templeton, but I drink too much to be buying it all the time, and after extensive research, have found you have to spend north of $60 a bottle to really make a noticeable difference. Old Overholt is very underrated. Although 3 years ago it was $14 a bottle, and now it’s closer to $20.

[Bone3421 716]

Well since no one really has answered the no sugar thing... I was trained at place i worked at awhile ago not to make with it with sugar.

Everyone seemed to enjoy them and got plenty of compliments.

Like mentioned start with high quality cherry and some orange without rind. Muddle then add booze,splash of bitters and shake over ice....strain...burn a orange twist, run over rim of glass then throw it in drink....done and done

[Jimbaround 975]

An old fashioned can be any whiskey (there are also gin and brandy versions, the latter probably being way too sweet for my taste).  I get that you guys prefer rye as the corn in bourbon makes it sweeter, but there are so many different bourbon mash bills out there to say you just use rye seems like it is limiting your universe.  The old Grand-Dad 114 is a high rye bourbon that makes a delightful OF, but generally I like to stick with the higher proof stuff in my OFs.

[UnivTex34 1763]

6 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

Well since no one really has answered the no sugar thing... I was trained at place i worked at awhile ago not to make with it with sugar.

Everyone seemed to enjoy them and got plenty of compliments.

Like mentioned start with high quality cherry and some orange without rind. Muddle then add booze,splash of bitters and shake over ice....strain...burn a orange twist, run over rim of glass then throw it in drink....done and done

So I’m not the biggest fan of a cherry with sugar, but without sugar a cherry is necessary. As previously stated, I skew towards bitter and not sweet, so about 7-10 shakes of bitters is what I like.

 

really, an old fashioned is just a general idea. So really you can concoct one any way you like.

 

But use rye you heathens.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by UnivTex34

[Jimbaround 975]

Look, if I am going to make a drink I often defer to this guy:

 

[ZanTheFan 49]

had one w/sazerac rye and it was delicious

[Spur08 382]

Love that guy.  Tells ya a good story every time

[Jimbaround 975]

Shit, I posted the wrong video.  Here’s the right one:

 

[Spur08 382]

That video gets me every time.  The cherries, the muddler, the 3 ounces of bourbon, and all the other treasures...they're just gold

[UnivTex34 1763]

13 minutes ago, ZanTheFan said:

had one w/sazerac rye and it was delicious

Sazerac is ok. Try one made with Thomas Handy Sazerac rye, and get back to me.

[Bone3421 716]

Wtf was that...lmao

Dont drink that!!!

[TexasFootball18 48]

6 minutes ago, Jimbaround said:

Shit, I posted the wrong video.  Here’s the right one:

 

Jim Bean and dollar store cherries, she absolutely murdered that ole fashioned

[Biscuits And Groovy 21]

Im gonna put on my elitist hat for second, so sorry in advance. 

I’d usually say that people have different opinions and everyone has their own tastes, but anyone who tells you to muddle the fruit or add club soda to an old fashioned is just wrong. Never, and I mean that in the most absolute way, muddle fruit in an old fashioned. That part is not a matter of taste like the Simple Syrup or Cube argument. An old fashioned is a bourbon drink and the only purpose of fruit in an OF is as a garnish. If you muddle fruit in an old fashioned it isn’t an old fashioned anymore. And if it is cloudy when you finish making it you fucked up and should start over. 

This goes back to the classic Cocktail formula. What a cocktail is at its basic roots is Alcohol, Sugar, Secondary flavoring agent. Then mixed with varying levels of dillusion. The Old Fashioned is the original whiskey cocktail. Whisky is the spirit, Sugar, Bitters to add complexity to the flavor, light dillusion from stirring with only the ice that the drink will be served with. I would go as far as to say only Agnostura, or Bitters that are an Agnostura clone. But I just don’t like Peychudes in my OF. Not a fan of the Peychudes flavor profile. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Biscuits And Groovy

[Bone3421 716]

Not arguing but just offering an answer to OP about not using sugar...for him to try at home,but need the high end cherries 

And im not sure if people was blowing smoke or not but had many say they were some of the better ones they had

[elfenix 34332]

Time was when the affable and sympathetic bartender moistened a lump of sugar with Angostura bitters, dropped in a lump of ice, neither too large nor too small, stuck in a miniature bar spoon and passed the glass to the client with a bottle of good bourbon from which said client was privileged to pour his own drink. In most places the price was 15 cents or two for quarter.

Nowadays the modern or ex-speakeasy bartender drops a spoonful of powdered sugar into a glass, adds a squirt of carbonic to aid dissolution, adds to that a dash or two of some kind of alleged bitters and a lump of ice, regardless of size. Then he proceeds to build up a fruit compote of orange, lemon, pineapple and cherry, and himself pours in a carefully measured ounce and a half of bar whisky, usually a blend, and gives one a glass rod to stir it with. Price, 35 to 50 cents. Profanation and extortion.

[HookEm 2467]

I like making mine with simple syrup but instead of regular sugar I use turbinado sugar (sugar in the raw). Also generally use rye and a lemon peel. Always neat.

[Frank The Tank 1497]

4 hours ago, Bone3421 said:

Well since no one really has answered the no sugar thing... I was trained at place i worked at awhile ago not to make with it with sugar.

Everyone seemed to enjoy them and got plenty of compliments.

Like mentioned start with high quality cherry and some orange without rind. Muddle then add booze,splash of bitters and shake over ice....strain...burn a orange twist, run over rim of glass then throw it in drink....done and done

I would never shake a drink like an old fashioned or a manhattan, those require a nice stir with the ice. Shakers are for fruit forward drinks like margaritas or daiquiris.  

[Paco 1934]

6 hours ago, Biscuits And Groovy said:

Im gonna put on my elitist hat for second, so sorry in advance. 

I’d usually say that people have different opinions and everyone has their own tastes, but anyone who tells you to muddle the fruit or add club soda to an old fashioned is just wrong. Never, and I mean that in the most absolute way, muddle fruit in an old fashioned. That part is not a matter of taste like the Simple Syrup or Cube argument. An old fashioned is a bourbon drink and the only purpose of fruit in an OF is as a garnish. If you muddle fruit in an old fashioned it isn’t an old fashioned anymore. And if it is cloudy when you finish making it you fucked up and should start over. 

This goes back to the classic Cocktail formula. What a cocktail is at its basic roots is Alcohol, Sugar, Secondary flavoring agent. Then mixed with varying levels of dillusion. The Old Fashioned is the original whiskey cocktail. Whisky is the spirit, Sugar, Bitters to add complexity to the flavor, light dillusion from stirring with only the ice that the drink will be served with. I would go as far as to say only Agnostura, or Bitters that are an Agnostura clone. But I just don’t like Peychudes in my OF. Not a fan of the Peychudes flavor profile. 

Lulz dillusion

[Biscuits And Groovy 21]

1 minute ago, Paco said:

Lulz dillusion

What should I say instead? Dilutedness? A large part of mixing a cocktail is how much you dilute the spirit. Don’t delude yourself as to your own linguistic capability 😉. 

[HouTex 1894]

7 hours ago, Biscuits And Groovy said:

Im gonna put on my elitist hat for second, so sorry in advance. 

I’d usually say that people have different opinions and everyone has their own tastes, but anyone who tells you to muddle the fruit or add club soda to an old fashioned is just wrong. Never, and I mean that in the most absolute way, muddle fruit in an old fashioned. That part is not a matter of taste like the Simple Syrup or Cube argument. An old fashioned is a bourbon drink and the only purpose of fruit in an OF is as a garnish. If you muddle fruit in an old fashioned it isn’t an old fashioned anymore. And if it is cloudy when you finish making it you fucked up and should start over. 

This goes back to the classic Cocktail formula. What a cocktail is at its basic roots is Alcohol, Sugar, Secondary flavoring agent. Then mixed with varying levels of dillusion. The Old Fashioned is the original whiskey cocktail. Whisky is the spirit, Sugar, Bitters to add complexity to the flavor, light dillusion from stirring with only the ice that the drink will be served with. I would go as far as to say only Agnostura, or Bitters that are an Agnostura clone. But I just don’t like Peychudes in my OF. Not a fan of the Peychudes flavor profile. 

I'm mostly with you.  I do like one dash of the Peychudes.  It's the dominant bitters in a Sazarac which, along with the absinthe, is why I like them.  On the rye vs bourbon issue I'm agnostic.  I love them both.  Another thing is that I'm blessed (I call it that) with taste buds that can't tell a meaningful difference between a lot of things.  An inexpensive bourbon like plain Weller or Jim Beam works fine in an OF.  For me, the bitters and sugar will destroy whatever nuance I might get drinking it neat.  

And I love the blonde's 3 oz. pour.  

[UnivTex34 1763]

7 hours ago, Biscuits And Groovy said:

Im gonna put on my elitist hat for second, so sorry in advance. 

I’d usually say that people have different opinions and everyone has their own tastes, but anyone who tells you to muddle the fruit or add club soda to an old fashioned is just wrong. Never, and I mean that in the most absolute way, muddle fruit in an old fashioned. That part is not a matter of taste like the Simple Syrup or Cube argument. An old fashioned is a bourbon drink and the only purpose of fruit in an OF is as a garnish. If you muddle fruit in an old fashioned it isn’t an old fashioned anymore. And if it is cloudy when you finish making it you fucked up and should start over. 

This goes back to the classic Cocktail formula. What a cocktail is at its basic roots is Alcohol, Sugar, Secondary flavoring agent. Then mixed with varying levels of dillusion. The Old Fashioned is the original whiskey cocktail. Whisky is the spirit, Sugar, Bitters to add complexity to the flavor, light dillusion from stirring with only the ice that the drink will be served with. I would go as far as to say only Agnostura, or Bitters that are an Agnostura clone. But I just don’t like Peychudes in my OF. Not a fan of the Peychudes flavor profile. 

Yup. 

[DFWTexEx 278]

I agree with much that has been said on here, but the video of the Ritz bar on NOLA is closest to what I do.  I wouldn't muddle an orange slice or anything like that, even a cherry, but I do had a sliver of orange peel in the cocktail.   The tiniest hint of orange makes the drink for me.  And I use bourbon.   

[Anastasis 23485]

where the fuck is bozo hiding?

 

Just now, DFWTexEx said:

I agree with much that has been said on here, but the video of the Ritz bar on NOLA is closest to what I do.  I wouldn't muddle an orange slice or anything like that, even a cherry, but I do had a sliver of orange peel in the cocktail.   The tiniest hint of orange makes the drink for me.  And I use bourbon.   

 

Gagree, except Rye. 

[Reynolds Woodcock 4801]

9 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

where the fuck is bozo hiding?

 

Beat me to it by 8 minutes.

I try to keep about half a cup of fresh turbinado simple syrup on hand, which I think compliments the bitters and rye well. I'll combine ~3/4 teaspoon of the simple syrup with 3 generous shakes of angostura bitters in an old fashion glass, and stir well. Then 3oz of Old Overholt Rye and a single large ice cube and stir well. Squeeze orange rind over the top and drop in the rind.  

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

If you want to add an extra layer to your homemade cocktails, I use a smoke gun to infuse different types of wood into the whiskey. My preference is cherrywood. 

 

[G650 14277]

This is the best drink evar.

[G650 14277]

10 hours ago, HouTex said:

IMO, simple syrup doesn't work as well as sugar dissolved with bitters and a little water.  I think it's something about heating up the sugar.  An OF is my favorite cocktail.  

I agree with this.

[HouTex 1894]

Another key to the OF is the sugar must be completely dissolved before too much rye/bourbon is added or it may not fully dissolve.  I make sure all of the sugar is dissolved before I add any booze.  I can't stand it when most of the sugar is in the last few sips.  I think this is why some bars/people use simple syrup.

[Shoxthemonkey 1983]

I thought Biscuits and Groovy was Bozo. An Old Fashioned is my go to cocktail, but I prefer to make my own. It's amazing how many different methods bartenders use to build them. Around here anyway, most are pretty bad.

[52-80 19246]

an old fashioned what?

[Captainant 27770]

Someone critique my old fashioned recipie:

Add .25 to .5 oz of agave nectar (slightly different mouth feel, no need to worry about sugar crystals not dissolving)
Add a dash or two of orange bitters
Add 1oz burbon (currently trying some Belle Meade that's been damn tasty)
Stir to combine. I have a milk frother/stirrer thing that I sometimes use instead of a stirring spoon that aerates the hell out of it and incorporates the ingredients really well. Not sure how I feel about it yet.
Add ice cube
Add 1oz burbon
Garnish with luxardo cherry and orange peel, expressing orange oils onto rim of glass

I'm pretty happy with it and my buddies like it, but I'm curious what the shag elite think

[BTW 370]

1 tsp of powered sugar soaked with 5 dashes of angostura bitters and a splash of water - stir to combine/dissolve

2 oz of good rye

rim the glass with a slice of orange peel and drop it in along with a cherry if I have one.

I like either crushed ice or the large iceball then I enjoy the changing flavors as the ice dilutes the whiskey

[huge 3795]

Dont get Jimb started on the shaken vs stirred argument.

I've seen him bite a waiter or bartenders face off when they try to shake his cocktails.

[ohchaucer 1443]

So you guys are saying SKIP the little splash of Diet Coke at the end?  We'll see....

[HouTex 1894]

[Belushi gif from Animal House when the case of booze is dropped]

[chesthair 231]

Love a good OF and like other stuff too.  Was in a cool little whiskey bar in hollywood CA last week called Lost Property.  The bartender was awesome.  Had an OF or two then he said he would make me something.  I like cherries, so he whipped up a "red hook".  real simple, very good:

Rye whiskey 2 oz

 

Punt e Mes/vermouth 1/2 oz

 

Maraschino liqueur 1/4 oz

[Captainant 27770]

22 minutes ago, chesthair said:

Love a good OF and like other stuff too.  Was in a cool little whiskey bar in hollywood CA last week called Lost Property.  The bartender was awesome.  Had an OF or two then he said he would make me something.  I like cherries, so he whipped up a "red hook".  real simple, very good:

Rye whiskey 2 oz

 

Punt e Mes/vermouth 1/2 oz

 

Maraschino liqueur 1/4 oz

Isn't that basically just a manhattan?

[Pescado_Rojo 19428]

2 hours ago, Shoxthemonkey said:

I thought Biscuits and Groovy was Bozo. An Old Fashioned is my go to cocktail, but I prefer to make my own. It's amazing how many different methods bartenders use to build them. Around here anyway, most are pretty bad.

It's really amazing to me how many bartenders fuck up an Old Fashioned. I travel a lot for work, and the OF is pretty much my go to bar drink. 90% of them are terrible. At home I'll occasionally add a splash of St Germaine to my OF...It's an interesting flavor profile. If I do that, I cut way back on the sugar as elderflower liquor is pretty sweet.

[Braff Zacklin 13662]

Moonlighted as a bartender several years ago. When I first started, had a couple of friends that liked to come in when we were slammed and ask me to make them Old Fashioneds.

 

Assholes.

[Jimbaround 975]

Dammit, now I've got a real hankerin' for an OF and it's only 1:30.