Surly kids applying / attending UT

[phdhorn 6224]

Congrats!  And there's a campus here in Austin, so it's very convenient!

[dirtonia 269]

Congrats!

[gsoda3 3245]

On 11/15/2018 at 7:13 PM, Teddyballgame said:

My son is going through the process.  #3 in class out of 650 or so, but in kinda of shitty School.  1460 on SAT.  Pretty good extracurricular activities but not mind blowing..  only wants computer science nothing else.  His fall back plan right now is UT Dallas.  He said he’ll no to atm so I did something right

#3 out of 650 and first choice is Comp Sci at UT?  you're not gonna need a fall back plan.  

[Teddyballgame 441]

#3 out of 650 and first choice is Comp Sci at UT?  you're not gonna need a fall back plan.  

Well I wish you were correct but unfortunately he did not get into computer science at UT Austin. He did get about 20000 in scholarships per year from UT Dallas. So that looks to be his destination

[gsoda3 3245]

13 minutes ago, Teddyballgame said:

 

Well I wish you were correct but unfortunately he did not get into computer science at UT Austin. He did get about 20000 in scholarships per year from UT Dallas. So that looks to be his destination

 

wow i am shocked.  sorry man.  

[jimmyjazz 45887]

Damn.  That's pretty hard to believe.  Is he in state and at a public HS?  If so, that's an auto-admit to UT, although it sounds like the CS department is being super picky.  What exactly would keep him out?

EDIT:  I just looked up the original House Bill 588 ("Top 10%" rule) and at least as far as it was originally conceived seemed to cover public AND private high schools.  So, ignore that part of my statement.  I have been told by parents at rich private schools in Austin that they don't get the same consideration.  I suspect there may be a little ass-covering for Buffy and Biff.

Edited April 12, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

25 minutes ago, Teddyballgame said:

 

Well I wish you were correct but unfortunately he did not get into computer science at UT Austin. He did get about 20000 in scholarships per year from UT Dallas. So that looks to be his destination

 

Jesus Fuck.  What does it take?

[Machinator 32099]

10 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Damn.  That's pretty hard to believe.  Is he in state and at a public HS?  If so, that's an auto-admit to UT, although it sounds like the CS department is being super picky.  What exactly would keep him out?

EDIT:  I just looked up the original House Bill 588 ("Top 10%" rule) and at least as far as it was originally conceived seemed to cover public AND private high schools.  So, ignore that part of my statement.  I have been told by parents at rich private schools in Austin that they don't get the same consideration.  I suspect there may be a little ass-covering for Buffy and Biff.

The top 10% rule guarantees you admission into UT, but not any specific major.

[jimmyjazz 45887]

Just now, Machinator said:

The top 10% rule guarantees you admission into UT, but not any specific major.

I didn't say it did.  I specifically pointed out that it looks like the CS department is being picky.  I mean, if the kid is #3 in his class but got C's in his comp sci classes in HS, then OK I guess, but somehow I doubt that's the case.

Hopefully Teddy fills us in on the details.  My daughter is a junior who wants to attend UT, and has over a 4.0 GPA, but she's sure as hell not gonna be #3 even in her smaller HS class.  At some point this just gets absurd -- she could crush UT.  She probably studies 4-5 hours every night, with exactly zero prompting from us, and typically makes in the 98%-100% range in every single class.  She converses with adults like she's far older than she is.  She's a hiring manager's dream -- absolutely sharp as hell and works her ass off.  But, she'll probably end up having to go through the "holistic" admissions process.  Drives me nuts.

[phdhorn 6224]

Computer Science is the hardest major to get into at UT-Austin.  Same thing happened to a friend of my son's... #3 or so at Lake Travis, never got a B in his life, etc.  Didn't get in.  He still went to UT without a major, got accepted to EE (which is no picnic either) for his sophomore year.  Rejected again by CS.

To get into CompSci there, you really have to have a few stars on your resume above grades.  It's almost impossible to land.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

Yeah, that's pretty flabbergasting.  The only thing I can imagine is not enough high-level math or possibly poor grades in it?

[Teddyballgame 441]

18 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Damn.  That's pretty hard to believe.  Is he in state and at a public HS?  If so, that's an auto-admit to UT, although it sounds like the CS department is being super picky.  What exactly would keep him out?

EDIT:  I just looked up the original House Bill 588 ("Top 10%" rule) and at least as far as it was originally conceived seemed to cover public AND private high schools.  So, ignore that part of my statement.  I have been told by parents at rich private schools in Austin that they don't get the same consideration.  I suspect there may be a little ass-covering for Buffy and Biff.

Its a public school, one of his best friends who actually got admitted to Comp Sci was # 5 in his class(2 spots behind)  but had an SAT score 5 pts better with the same  extracurricular activities  as my son.   This kid is also a first generation American so I am not sure whether that played a role or not but their applications were damn near identical.     

[Teddyballgame 441]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, that's pretty flabbergasting.  The only thing I can imagine is not enough high-level math or possibly poor grades in it?

he never made less than a 98 in any math classes and has been in AP math(calculus, etc)--for his whole time in high school.   

[jimmyjazz 45887]

Just now, Teddyballgame said:

Its a public school, one of his best friends who actually got admitted to Comp Sci was # 5 in his class(2 spots behind)  but had an SAT score 5 pts better with the same  extracurricular activities  as my son.   This kid is also a first generation American so I am not sure whether that played a role or not but their applications were damn near identical.     

Is there anything you can imagine would have led CS to not admit your son?  Those numbers are really hard to believe.  Maybe 1460 just isn't "good enough" for CS?  (Jaw drops.)

[Asithappens 974]

On 11/2/2018 at 2:59 PM, Longhorn94 said:

I know we did this on the old site but couldn't find it on Surly. So here we go....

My girl submitted her application to Texas. She is applying to College of Natural Sciences, Dean Scholars, Plan II, etc... She will be auto-admitted into Texas. Hopefully, she joins her two older brothers in Plan II. If she gets Dean Scholar, she is going to Texas. If not, we will be waiting to hear back from Harvard, Columbia, NYU, Chicago, UWashington, Cal, UCLA, and Stanford. 

Anyone else have a kid applying this now?

What? No Swarthmore? 

Poseur. 

[Longhorn94 2448]

1 minute ago, Teddyballgame said:

Its a public school, one of his best friends who actually got admitted to Comp Sci was # 5 in his class(2 spots behind)  but had an SAT score 5 pts better with the same  extracurricular activities  as my son.   This kid is also a first generation American so I am not sure whether that played a role or not but their applications were damn near identical.     

Our oldest is in the CS program at UT. He was in top 10 at LT and made a little higher on SAT including an 800 on math and another 800 on the math subject test. He also had been coding since 4th grade and included several projects on his application with links. he also had insane extracurriculars and got into Plan II. He is in a house with EE and CS majors and the EE majors feel sorry for the CS students' workloads.

[DaysOff 7947]

Know a kid with a perfect ACT that didn't get into Cockrell. I have no idea what the secret handshake is these days. He ended up at aggy so fuck him anyway.

[Asithappens 974]

On 11/15/2018 at 7:13 PM, Teddyballgame said:

My son is going through the process.  #3 in class out of 650 or so, but in kinda of shitty School.  1460 on SAT.  Pretty good extracurricular activities but not mind blowing..  only wants computer science nothing else.  His fall back plan right now is UT Dallas.  He said he’ll no to atm so I did something right

I saw your post about the outcome of this. Sorry to hear that.

I know it's too late now, but how many times did your boy take the SAT? 1460 is probably about 80 points or so a bit low for being a "sure thing". Maybe 100 points low.

I could be wrong.

[Longhorn94 2448]

48 minutes ago, Teddyballgame said:

 

Well I wish you were correct but unfortunately he did not get into computer science at UT Austin. He did get about 20000 in scholarships per year from UT Dallas. So that looks to be his destination

 

you might want to try to appeal the decision as well. i know a friend who's kid appealed  their CS rejection and was able to get in. just a FYI.

[Rougarou 594]

7 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

Computer Science is the hardest major to get into at UT-Austin.  Same thing happened to a friend of my son's... #3 or so at Lake Travis, never got a B in his life, etc.  Didn't get in.  He still went to UT without a major, got accepted to EE (which is no picnic either) for his sophomore year.  Rejected again by CS.

To get into CompSci there, you really have to have a few stars on your resume above grades.  It's almost impossible to land.

which is interesting and shows the rise of the computers. when i was in school my roommate was in computer science as a back-up because he couldn't get into the engineering school he wanted. He eventually got in Spring of freshman year, but I remember him telling me about this new fangled thing they were talking about called C++ or something.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

Do they still fail people out of engineering (and I guess CS now) at high rates?  It was literally 2/3 back when I was in school.

[Teddyballgame 441]

7 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Is there anything you can imagine would have led CS to not admit your son?  Those numbers are really hard to believe.  Maybe 1460 just isn't "good enough" for CS?  (Jaw drops.)

The only thing is not enough computer science background for him---his school does not offer a great program in this area, but he has taken everything the school offers and like I said the kid 2 spots behind him got in with the same classes and essentially the same grades.  Its not the end of the world --UT Dallas is offering him a good chunk of change and a smaller school might be better for him.   I would have liked to see him at UT Austin but wasn't meant to be for him.  MY daughter will be a senior at UT next year and would have been nice to have her there to help guide him.   

Edited April 12, 2019 by Teddyballgame

[phdhorn 6224]

Just now, TwiceHorn said:

Do they still fail people out of engineering (and I guess CS now) at high rates?  It was literally 2/3 back when I was in school.

Not sure.  My kid is doing decently in ME (almost-junior), he's co-oping until August in Dallas.  I think they're more selective so less drop out.  The acceptance rate i.e. in ME was like 20% or something two years ago.  But not sure... my guess is that it's not that high now.

[Longhorn94 2448]

4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Do they still fail people out of engineering (and I guess CS now) at high rates?  It was literally 2/3 back when I was in school.

i dont think so. its not really what UT is about anymore. i remember the whole "look to your left, that person will flunk out the first year, now look to your right, that person wont graduate from UT" at orientation. now its all about retention through study groups, mentoring pods, and advisors at every step to make sure you graduate and are successful. i was like WTF? this is NOT the UT i attended!!!!

[phdhorn 6224]

There's also a new program at UT - Entrepreneurship Minor.  My kid just got accepted into it (he's truly, really interested in the mechanics/culture of startup, not just making it rain, homie!):

https://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/Centers/Kelleher-Center/Academics/Entrepreneurship Minor

Point here is sort of along with 94's last post - they seem to cater and fluff the new kids more than we were.  Hell, the Engineering Orientation I felt like I was in some exclusive day spa.  They kept saying, "we'll take care of your snowflake for you, don't worry."  Nothing of "if he survives, he'll be a Green Beret!"

Anyway this program is meant to encourage students in "finding themselves" and not just going through the motions of the programs and out.  They really seem to be trying to match the interests of the up-and-coming generation's interest in the less conventional and/or snowflake hand holding or something.

[jimmyjazz 45887]

Yes, UT is pushing hard to get kids to graduate in 4 years.  Fenves has been quoted as saying admissions have jumped from 38K in 2013 to 51K now.  It's insane.  This state needs a BUNCH more great public schools besides just UT and A&M.  California probably has 10 public schools that are roughly as good or better than those two.

[LeGarrette Blount's Punch 11]

My daughter is a freshman in the fine arts department.  She wasn't a great student in HS but she can art like a motherfucker and can talk her way into/out of whatever she wants.  She applied to three schools (SCAD, Pratt, and Texas) and got accepted to all of them.  She chose to stay home and go to Texas.  She is the best. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by LeGarrette Blount's Punch
don't type no good

[Machinator 32099]

6 hours ago, Longhorn94 said:

i dont think so. its not really what UT is about anymore. i remember the whole "look to your left, that person will flunk out the first year, now look to your right, that person wont graduate from UT" at orientation. now its all about retention through study groups, mentoring pods, and advisors at every step to make sure you graduate and are successful. i was like WTF? this is NOT the UT i attended!!!!

The weed out stage has been pushed up earlier in the timeline; it's at the application stage now instead of Chem 301, etc.

[tx 3 putt 76869]

12 hours ago, Longhorn94 said:

now its all about retention through study groups, mentoring pods, and advisors at every step to make sure you graduate and are successful.

this is the standard model for almost all engineering schools, big or small. 

Edited April 13, 2019 by tx 3 putt

[Texas Jeff 1944]

For those of you worried that your kid did not make CS at UT ... don't worry ... a job awaits the kid who loves to code.  UT Dallas and Texas A&M are good state school alternatives to UT Austin.  I've interviewed a ton of students straight out of undergrad or a masters program and I was surprised how many of them could not think logically about a problem or code the correct solution after 4-6 years of school.  Those that can stand out.

In my experience, most large companies have a standard entry level package.  It does not vary by school, although schools with larger pools of STEM majors are likely to have more companies interviewing on campus.  So a UT Austin grad is likely to make about what a UT Dallas grad makes, at least to start.

So .... code, code, code, code .... learn some interviewing skills .... code some more ... get an internship ... keep coding ... work on teamwork skills ... keep coding ... and you'll land a job no matter where you went to school.  Once you get a job, put away the damn phone and code.  Getting your second job will rely more on what you did at your first job than where you went to school.

[Rollo Tomassi 80]

I know this is somewhat suburban legend, but my step son was ranked #2 in his private school class of ~100 and got a perfect score on the ACT and was CAP'd by UT computer science.  He got in to Harvard.  Un-fucking-believable.  This happened this year.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Rollo Tomassi

[Beau Vine 54207]

On 4/12/2019 at 11:05 AM, jimmyjazz said:

I didn't say it did.  I specifically pointed out that it looks like the CS department is being picky.  I mean, if the kid is #3 in his class but got C's in his comp sci classes in HS, then OK I guess, but somehow I doubt that's the case.

Hopefully Teddy fills us in on the details.  My daughter is a junior who wants to attend UT, and has over a 4.0 GPA, but she's sure as hell not gonna be #3 even in her smaller HS class.  At some point this just gets absurd -- she could crush UT.  She probably studies 4-5 hours every night, with exactly zero prompting from us, and typically makes in the 98%-100% range in every single class.  She converses with adults like she's far older than she is.  She's a hiring manager's dream -- absolutely sharp as hell and works her ass off.  But, she'll probably end up having to go through the "holistic" admissions process.  Drives me nuts.

I'll remind you that my daughter had a 34 ACT and didn't into UT Engineering.  

On a related note, she's currently in Miami at the Applied Computational Electromagnetics Society Conference (*), with a professor she has a research fellowship with.  So fuck UT Admissions. 

(*) She texted earlier today and said there are 140 attendees, and only 10 of them are women.  Then she texted and said that there are more attendees named Mohammed than there are women there.  

[Guest Lobo]

3 of the 7 forty acres scholars we interviewed/advanced for consideration received the full FAS ride. Which is not just full tuition and board but tremendous enrichment and networking. Very proud of them and our program.  We are literally stealing talented students from not just rice,  it multiple Ivy’s, Stanford, et al 

[jimmyjazz 45887]

25 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I'll remind you that my daughter had a 34 ACT and didn't into UT Engineering.  

Yeah, I really don't know what they can do outside of revising the admissions process to place a bigger emphasis on interviews, etc.  As an engineer who has hired, fired, and worked with scads of engineers in my life I can assure you that a 34 ACT would most likely put her in the top 10% of that group of working professionals.

This state is way underserved, but nothing will change.

[CooterBrown 18003]

On a related note, she's currently in Miami at the Applied Computational Electromagnetics Society Conference (*), with a professor she has a research fellowship with. 

Profs traveling with coeds know what’s up.

[MrPhlegm 3413]

For those of you worried that your kid did not make CS at UT ... don't worry ... a job awaits the kid who loves to code.  UT Dallas and Texas A&M are good state school alternatives to UT Austin.  I've interviewed a ton of students straight out of undergrad or a masters program and I was surprised how many of them could not think logically about a problem or code the correct solution after 4-6 years of school.  Those that can stand out.

In my experience, most large companies have a standard entry level package.  It does not vary by school, although schools with larger pools of STEM majors are likely to have more companies interviewing on campus.  So a UT Austin grad is likely to make about what a UT Dallas grad makes, at least to start.

So .... code, code, code, code .... learn some interviewing skills .... code some more ... get an internship ... keep coding ... work on teamwork skills ... keep coding ... and you'll land a job no matter where you went to school.  Once you get a job, put away the damn phone and code.  Getting your second job will rely more on what you did at your first job than where you went to school.

Code?

 

Really?

 

Computers code. Coding is easy. Drones code.

 

It is design where the money is. Designing systems that don't fuck up.

 

Coders wrote the shit system in the Max 8 that flew the two planes into the ground.

 

Fuck coding.

 

 

 

That being said, you english, sociology, history majors better learn to code so you can eat later.

 

[CleverNickname 1308]

SSC on college admissions (long):

https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/04/15/increasingly-competitive-college-admissions-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/

[F250 28764]

On 4/15/2019 at 5:30 PM, Lobo said:

3 of the 7 forty acres scholars we interviewed/advanced for consideration received the full FAS ride. Which is not just full tuition and board but tremendous enrichment and networking. Very proud of them and our program.  We are literally stealing talented students from not just rice,  it multiple Ivy’s, Stanford, et al 

This might explain why the camera shots of coeds at football games are starting to be more reflective of Stanford games.

[Asithappens 974]

On 4/15/2019 at 4:20 PM, Rollo Tomassi said:

I know this is somewhat suburban legend, but my step son was ranked #2 in his private school class of ~100 and got a perfect score on the ACT and was CAP'd by UT computer science. 

I know a student who was approx 180/600 in their graduating class and not only got into CS as a freshman major but then got into EE. 

So, weird things happen.

[Longhorn94 2448]

On 4/15/2019 at 5:30 PM, Lobo said:

3 of the 7 forty acres scholars we interviewed/advanced for consideration received the full FAS ride. Which is not just full tuition and board but tremendous enrichment and networking. Very proud of them and our program.  We are literally stealing talented students from not just rice,  it multiple Ivy’s, Stanford, et al 

Our girl is not a Forty Acre Scholar but she did choose UT's Environmental Science Program over Cal, UCLA, Washington, Rice, Columbia, and NYU. 

[pacman 7355]

On 4/13/2019 at 5:25 AM, Texas Jeff said:

For those of you worried that your kid did not make CS at UT ... don't worry ... a job awaits the kid who loves to code.  UT Dallas and Texas A&M are good state school alternatives to UT Austin.  I've interviewed a ton of students straight out of undergrad or a masters program and I was surprised how many of them could not think logically about a problem or code the correct solution after 4-6 years of school.  Those that can stand out.

In my experience, most large companies have a standard entry level package.  It does not vary by school, although schools with larger pools of STEM majors are likely to have more companies interviewing on campus.  So a UT Austin grad is likely to make about what a UT Dallas grad makes, at least to start.

So .... code, code, code, code .... learn some interviewing skills .... code some more ... get an internship ... keep coding ... work on teamwork skills ... keep coding ... and you'll land a job no matter where you went to school.  Once you get a job, put away the damn phone and code.  Getting your second job will rely more on what you did at your first job than where you went to school.

Yep. One of the top coders I have ever worked with professionally never did get into cs at ut. He graduated from our English department.

[Guest Lobo]

22 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

Our girl is not a Forty Acre Scholar but she did choose UT's Environmental Science Program over Cal, UCLA, Washington, Rice, Columbia, and NYU. 

that is awesome  

[jimmyjazz 45887]

So this is only tangentially related, but I'm pissed:  as many of you surely know, AISD gives out a "Trustee's Award" to students who are in the top 10% in their class for a given school year.  My daughter received the award her freshman and sophomore years, but did not make the list in this her junior year, even though her class rank is higher than ever.  I dug around a bit and found out it was because she had 3 "NC" (no credit) marks in a class at the beginning of the school year.  This class happens to be an "office aide" class where she assists a teacher with grading, etc.  Turns out this teacher failed to mark my daughter as present those days, so she was counted as absent.  Now, the district allows students to clear these things up if they're erroneous, something my daughter attempted to do in early January when she found out about these marks against her.  Teacher says "no problem, I'll fix it" . . . and never fixed it.  Teacher wrote an email this week to the Principal as well as AISD -- no dice.  They don't care, but do acknowledge that she should have received the award and that it's her teacher's fault she didn't.  So now her college apps are going to show an academic award for her freshman and sophomore years but not her junior year.  That's not good.

I realize it's kind of a bullshit award and hardly common across school districts nationwide, but it's still something a kid needs to acknowledge when they receive it.  The district claims they can't boot some kid off the list to accommodate my daughter, which is stupid -- just give the award to both.  Her "resume" is going to look wonky if she puts it down unless we finesse it as something like "multiyear winner of AISD Trustee's Award".

The best thing to come of this is that I was able to teach my daughter the value in not trusting anybody to follow through on a promise, and that she needs to verify after the fact.  Tough lesson for a 16 YO kid, though.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

So this is only tangentially related, but I'm pissed:  as many of you surely know, AISD gives out a "Trustee's Award" to students who are in the top 10% in their class for a given school year.  My daughter received the award her freshman and sophomore years, but did not make the list in this her junior year, even though her class rank is higher than ever.  I dug around a bit and found out it was because she had 3 "NC" (no credit) marks in a class at the beginning of the school year.  This class happens to be an "office aide" class where she assists a teacher with grading, etc.  Turns out this teacher failed to mark my daughter as present those days, so she was counted as absent.  Now, the district allows students to clear these things up if they're erroneous, something my daughter attempted to do in early January when she found out about these marks against her.  Teacher says "no problem, I'll fix it" . . . and never fixed it.  Teacher wrote an email this week to the Principal as well as AISD -- no dice.  They don't care, but do acknowledge that she should have received the award and that it's her teacher's fault she didn't.  So now her college apps are going to show an academic award for her freshman and sophomore years but not her junior year.  That's not good.

I realize it's kind of a bullshit award and hardly common across school districts nationwide, but it's still something a kid needs to acknowledge when they receive it.  The district claims they can't boot some kid off the list to accommodate my daughter, which is stupid -- just give the award to both.  Her "resume" is going to look wonky if she puts it down unless we finesse it as something like "multiyear winner of AISD Trustee's Award".

The best thing to come of this is that I was able to teach my daughter the value in not trusting anybody to follow through on a promise, and that she needs to verify after the fact.  Tough lesson for a 16 YO kid, though.

Well it appears that she can truthfully explain that she didnt get it year 3 because of school's clerical error.

[jimmyjazz 45887]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well it appears that she can truthfully explain that she didnt get it year 3 because of school's clerical error.

I'm not going to advocate for that without a letter from the district explaining the error.  This is definitely not the kind of thing you want raising a red flag.  To me it's pretty much a no-win situation.

And, I'll reiterate:  it's a dumb award, inasmuch as her transcript will show more detail and be just as impressive.  It still pisses me off when bureaucrats can't use their fucking heads to fix an easily-rectified problem.  I'm not pursuing it any further for two reasons:  (1) I don't want to be "that parent" and (2) her brother is a freshman at the same HS so I *really* don't want to be "that parent".

[TwiceHorn 31438]

Fair enough.  Sounded like it was fairly well documented already.  Probably just leave it off entirely because it just corresponds to class rank and that's evident.

[ZB'Tejas 593]

My god this thread give me heartburn. Kids are far away from even thinking about college but standards seem so high now. 1460? Hell I was just over 1300 and in top ten 10% and was able to have my pick of schools.  Ugh

[TwiceHorn 31438]

Just now, ZB'Tejas said:

My god this thread give me heartburn. Kids are far away from even thinking about college but standards seem so high now. 1460? Hell I was just over 1300 and in top ten 10% and was able to have my pick of schools.  Ugh

Not sure how old you are, but SAT scores are different now and keep getting inflated compared to 10-20 years ago, or 20-30.

[ZB'Tejas 593]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not sure how old you are, but SAT scores are different now and keep getting inflated compared to 10-20 years ago, or 20-30.

Old... I heard they changed. So is this no longer on a 1600 point scale?

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

6 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not sure how old you are, but SAT scores are different now and keep getting inflated compared to 10-20 years ago, or 20-30.

this is a relief.  i was looking at those numbers and going crazy.