Surly kids applying / attending UT

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

54 minutes ago, Saint Tacky said:

Good news. Bad news. Youngest was accepted to The University yesterday but received the "denial" option. That is to go to school at a "UT System University" for 30 credit hours, maintain a 3.2 GPA, and get guaranteed admission to Austin in Fall 2025.  Unfortunately, my kid already has so many dual credits from AP courses in high school, that there are not likely enough courses available for them to knock out the 30-hour requirement.

Losing guaranteed admission for following a more academically challenging path in high school. What a country.

FWIW, it's important to remember that the terms 'dual credit' and 'Advanced Placement' are not interchangeable. AP credits do not have to be used if the student wishes. My two oldest used some and not others. For example, the oldest elected to not use AP credit for all the calc due to wanting to have a course with 'familiarity' and for the refresher (Chem major). For the CAP requirement at UT, I'm not sure that any AP work counts towards the 30 hours?(check their FAQ if they have one). I think that is applied after the transfer to Austin. Have no idea about actual dual credit hs coursework but I expect that to be the deal breaker because of the way dual credit works (slightly different than AP).

Your youngest is to be commended for taking the more academically challenging path. It shows diligence, ambition, intelligence, and dedication to their studies. All qualities that aid in student success in higher education. There are still many doors open and paths available. It may seem a disappointment to your student now, but chin up and onward.

[fattyflattie 4640]

2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

As has been mentioned multiple times, the State and citizenry kicked the can down the road for elevating other system schools to alleviate the stresses placed upon the "Flagship" campuses to the tune of 63K+ applieds to UT-Aus in 2023.

This is not wrong, but I’m not sure it’s solvable. You could make UTD, UTSA, and a UTH nearly as reputable and exclusive as Austin, and people would still prefer Austin. Not even for the city.  Contrary to Texags thought, there can only be one flagship.  And “really, really good system school” isn’t shit if you’re able to get into the flagship. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

7 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

This is not wrong, but I’m not sure it’s solvable. You could make UTD, UTSA, and a UTH nearly as reputable and exclusive as Austin, and people would still prefer Austin. Not even for the city.  Contrary to Texags thought, there can only be one flagship.  And “really, really good system school” isn’t shit if you’re able to get into the flagship. 

You're also correct in that Austin is always going to be the nationally ranked premier shining beacon on the hill. But it cannot support the numbers. It just cannot. However, if the Lege and the system leaders (for the various systems) would set aside some personal agendas and grievances (straight face here), shoring up specific programs at specific schools might alleviate some of the problem. For example, why is A&M so dogged about pouring money into the McAllen campus (2018) when there are already schools in the area, including UT-RGV (not too far away) and South Texas College (in town). Those funds might be better spent elsewhere.

[fattyflattie 4640]

Just now, Mrs Whiggins said:

You're also correct in that Austin is always going to be the nationally ranked premier shining beacon on the hill. But it cannot support the numbers. It just cannot. However, if the Lege and the system leaders (for the various systems) would set aside some personal agendas and grievances (straight face here), shoring up specific programs at specific schools might alleviate some of the problem. For example, why is A&M so dogged about pouring money into the McAllen campus (2018) when there are already schools in the area, including UT-RGV (not too far away) and South Texas College (in town). Those funds might be better spent elsewhere.

We definitely need more good to great system schools. I just don’t think it ever solves the issues at UT.  When you have kids that turn down legitimate better schools to stay home (and why wouldn’t they, it’s in their DNA) youll always have this problem in some sort.  Even if UT found another chunk of acreage down the road and tied it in, you’d have people fighting to be in the OG.  Sucks, but is what it is. The tech thing is tough. Fuck going to aggy, but they are largely considered a much better school. Fuck a bunch of eternally being looked down upon, academically of all things, by fucking aggy. That would make me want to leave a state I very much love, too. UF, Uga, where ever.  

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

No doubt--with the second largest population in the States, it will never disappear unless some sort of educational crisis occurred and I'd hate to see that. For all the grief higher ed gets, it's of benefit to society and the world.

A&M opened up that campus adjacent to their main one (because they've got lots of space that UT doesn't) so that students can attend classes at Blinn and then go over to the other campus near A&M to get a degree from A&M Commerce or some other qualifying school. I expect it is so the students that want to mingle with the regular A&M aesthetics can do so with sports passes etc. I have no idea how popular the alternative campus option is. The pull of the mothership may be strong for some. I do know a friend of one of my children went to play at a system school on on athletic scholarship and then decided to finish out at that campus because the drive home was shorter (had a girlfriend) and seemed to be okay with it.

So, I agree. Everyone wants the OG and that is not going to go away. But UT has done an amazing job with UTD and if they can keep that momentum going in a positive direction it may pay off. I know there are people on here with careers in higher ed that would assuredly have more insight than my totally guessing observations.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

3 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

63K+ applied to UT-Aus in 2023. 19K were admitted and of those, I think around 9K ish were enrolled.

Just for kicks, I pulled some data from Harvard (2021 so not direct comp to this year) and here's their applied, admitted, enrolled:

57,786

2,318

1951

[Fudge Nuggets 19455]

My kid got CAP’ed but he’s going to turn it down because he doesn’t want to do a poverty major.  His school had just over 200 kids apply to UT last year and over 100 were accepted.  This year they had about 220 apply and 10 got accepted.  I guess his class is 90% dumber than last year’s.

[tx 3 putt 78677]

2 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

You're also correct in that Austin is always going to be the nationally ranked premier shining beacon on the hill. But it cannot support the numbers. It just cannot. However, if the Lege and the system leaders (for the various systems) would set aside some personal agendas and grievances (straight face here), shoring up specific programs at specific schools might alleviate some of the problem. For example, why is A&M so dogged about pouring money into the McAllen campus (2018) when there are already schools in the area, including UT-RGV (not too far away) and South Texas College (in town). Those funds might be better spent elsewhere.

don’t sleep on ut-rgv engineering dept. Dow has fallen in love with that program. Other companies are following 

Edited February 2 by tx 3 putt

[SimonBolivar 11064]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

We definitely need more good to great system schools. I just don’t think it ever solves the issues at UT.  When you have kids that turn down legitimate better schools to stay home (and why wouldn’t they, it’s in their DNA) youll always have this problem in some sort.  Even if UT found another chunk of acreage down the road and tied it in, you’d have people fighting to be in the OG.  Sucks, but is what it is. The tech thing is tough. Fuck going to aggy, but they are largely considered a much better school. Fuck a bunch of eternally being looked down upon, academically of all things, by fucking aggy. That would make me want to leave a state I very much love, too. UF, Uga, where ever.  

Is there a solution to this issue at UT? The state is going to continue to grow, and UT-Austin can't/shouldn't be a 100K+ student institution to match how it was in the 80s or 90s or whatever. The only thing the state can do is to increase the prestige of some of the other schools so that we have a system that isn't UT or bust. Yes, schools like UT-D are doing great compared to their historical average, but these things take time and attracting top faculty is a tough process that requires money, time, and skill.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

14 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

don’t sleep on ut-rgv engineering dept. Dow has fallen in love with that program. Other companies are following 

Exactly. UT-RGV is already doing well. The only reason I can think of for A&M spending the money they've put into McAllen is if it's in a field of study/emphasis that UT-RGV doesn't serve already. If that is the case, then I retract my comments because the two schools can complement each other to serve student needs.

Sorry for going off on a derail of the thread. Back to UT-Austin.

[fattyflattie 4640]

12 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Yes, schools like UT-D are doing great compared to their historical average, but these things take time and attracting top faculty is a tough process that requires money, time, and skill.

I agree, I’m not sure there is an answer.  Many people (and some on this board) have turned down free rides at UT-D, that’s pretty well respected, to pay 100k+ to attend at Austin.   As long as the delta is that severe, you’ll have that happen.  If it was my kids it’d be a no brainer - Austin. 

[Saint Tacky 1647]

16 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

don’t sleep on ut-rgv engineering dept. Dow has fallen in love with that program. Other companies are following 

My oldest is in computer engineering at UTD and is working his ass off. Texas Instruments started it and is still heavily involved with the program. He loves it and after a few years in the real world, I doubt anyone is going to give a shit about the "D" next to "UT" on his diploma. It's all about talent and ability.

 

[fattyflattie 4640]

1 hour ago, Saint Tacky said:

My oldest is in computer engineering at UTD and is working his ass off. Texas Instruments started it and is still heavily involved with the program. He loves it and after a few years in the real world, I doubt anyone is going to give a shit about the "D" next to "UT" on his diploma. It's all about talent and ability.

 

Only people who really care are the ones with Austin or College Station on theirs, in my experience.  But you’re right, if you are a hammer, it won’t matter (as much). 

[Longhorn94 2501]

And our 5th and youngest kiddo was accepted to UT yesterday. We are beyond proud and excited.

We currently have 1 at UT Law, 1 getting her PhD at UVA, 1 studying abroad at Central supelac in Paris, and our youngest will be in McCombs in the fall.

our oldest graduated CS and is a SW engineer at Meta.

We both went to UT and now we will be 5 for 5 on the kiddos. 

 

 

Edited February 2 by Longhorn94

[jimmyjazz 47183]

2 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

Many people (and some on this board) have turned down free rides at UT-D, that’s pretty well respected, to pay 100k+ to attend at Austin.

Wait, what?  Gonna need a breakdown on those numbers, ace.  You talking annual, 4 years, out of state, what?

[CleverNickname 1345]

43 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait, what?  Gonna need a breakdown on those numbers, ace.  You talking annual, 4 years, out of state, what?

$100K sounds about right, maybe even low. Tuition is about $12k per year, and if your kid can eat and sleep in Austin for around a grand a month you've found a good deal.

[dcbc 14644]

6 hours ago, yoladu said:

LAH?

Sorry.  I usually don't abbreviate non-obvious things because it drives me nuts.

 

Liberal Arts - Honors

[CleverNickname 1345]

My rising 9th graders counselors keep telling everyone (kids and parents) not to take "advanced" (pre-AP basically) everything. Take one or two classes with the norms, is how I interpret that. Does anyone listen? Like, she has expressed no real interest in engineering or sciences, but then again she is 14. Maybe she'll suddenly want to go med school and want lots of rigorous high school science. 

So: did yall's UT bound kids take pretty much AP/IB everything?

[fattyflattie 4640]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Wait, what?  Gonna need a breakdown on those numbers, ace.  You talking annual, 4 years, out of state, what?

I was using estimated round numbers.  What is it now, 130-150?     Talking 4 year undergrad at UT, with normal roommate apt type situation.  

eta: when I started the 529 for my oldest, they told us to shoot for 120k or so and then focus other places.  She’s 11.   Of course now there’s 3 contributions.   

Edited February 3 by fattyflattie

[Beantown Express 2.0 6596]

1 hour ago, CleverNickname said:

My rising 9th graders counselors keep telling everyone (kids and parents) not to take "advanced" (pre-AP basically) everything. Take one or two classes with the norms, is how I interpret that. Does anyone listen? Like, she has expressed no real interest in engineering or sciences, but then again she is 14. Maybe she'll suddenly want to go med school and want lots of rigorous high school science. 

So: did yall's UT bound kids take pretty much AP/IB everything?

My kid was all AP everything.  He was in a STEM school for middle school so got advanced in Math to the point he was done with calculus and statistics as a Junior.  Not sure it mattered as he still didn’t get into Mccombs.  He avoided the dual credit stuff since his goal wasn’t to transfer all that to college so he could finish quickly.  

[Stros121 3]

My HS Senior is #5 out of 740, she has a 4.76 gpa. Poor girl is crushed because she was denied to UT nursing . She wants to be a CRNA. My wife no pics graduated in 97 from UT nursing. During that time you would apply to nursing school before you junior year. 

Has anyone been around ut nursing recently and or have knowledge on how often freshmen get into the nursing school?

 

[Longhorn94 2501]

2 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

My rising 9th graders counselors keep telling everyone (kids and parents) not to take "advanced" (pre-AP basically) everything. Take one or two classes with the norms, is how I interpret that. Does anyone listen? Like, she has expressed no real interest in engineering or sciences, but then again she is 14. Maybe she'll suddenly want to go med school and want lots of rigorous high school science. 

So: did yall's UT bound kids take pretty much AP/IB everything?

Yes

[Brew 3049]

2 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

My rising 9th graders counselors keep telling everyone (kids and parents) not to take "advanced" (pre-AP basically) everything. Take one or two classes with the norms, is how I interpret that. Does anyone listen? Like, she has expressed no real interest in engineering or sciences, but then again she is 14. Maybe she'll suddenly want to go med school and want lots of rigorous high school science. 

So: did yall's UT bound kids take pretty much AP/IB everything?

My oldest has been accepted everywhere she applied including some super low acceptance rate schools with scholarship offers at all but the one she is apparently attending. Most of those acceptance notifications have been over other kids that have applied with higher ACT scores. However, she has been all honors/AP (all 4/5’s at this point) and most of them have not. Course selection/rigor is pretty much rated high by every school on the common data set which means you need to take the hardest courses offered. I also think applying to the less popular programs as well as having really great essays/community involvement made the difference for her. Everyone is applying business, premed, engineering, etc. from what we could tell. She applied English with a plan to go to law school and went 35/34 on the ACT in English/Reading and 5’s on those AP’s to support that degree path which had to make a difference.

[Surly Bevo 25738]

1 hour ago, Stros121 said:

My HS Senior is #5 out of 740, she has a 4.76 gpa. Poor girl is crushed because she was denied to UT nursing . She wants to be a CRNA. My wife no pics graduated in 97 from UT nursing. During that time you would apply to nursing school before you junior year. 

Has anyone been around ut nursing recently and or have knowledge on how often freshmen get into the nursing school?

 

Have a daughter who is a Jr in UT Nursing.  She was nowhere near that high in class rank, probably right around 10-12% in a very similarly sized school (graduating class in the mid 700s). She did very well on the ACT, but not a blow the test away type score (think maybe she got a 31, 32...something like that).  That said, she was in a school district that has an excellent CTE program.  She was into medicine from middle school and decided nursing rather than pre-med was the route for her personality and interests. Every year in HS she was in a class or two that were specifically geared around a nursing track.  Even had a class her junior year of HS that was working in a nursing home and getting practical experience (Covid shut that shit down right quick after a semester and a third of it).  She was in HOSA, drill team (line officer her Sr year), NHS and a few other ECs

I have always been of the belief that her admittance came down to resume/transcript, particularly the pieces of both that showed she was pretty damn serious about nursing and essays where she got to drive home her passion for becoming a nurse.  I have no way of knowing but felt it like UT was looking for kids they felt pretty strongly had already displayed a pretty deep commitment about entering the field. Obviously, that was great for someone like her who figured out pretty early what she wanted to do and has never wavered, but I also kind of don't like the idea of kids having to have their whole life plan figured out as they wrap up 8th grade (I think this is one of the reasons more and more males are eschewing or not getting into better higher education opportunities because your average 8th grade male doesn't know shit about fuck but that is another topic entirely)

But you asked about the stats, and those I remember well from her telling me upon return from freshman orientation.  For the Fall of 2021, there were just over 2,800 applicants to the UT School of Nursing.  There were 102 freshmen in the Fall 2021 nursing class.  There is a little under 70 of them left now (so they clearly still miss a lot)

All of that to say, who the fuck knows.  I feel like getting into a school like Texas today is almost like a lottery, and even those who get auto-admitted have to play that lottery if they want tracks like business, engineering, etc.  I have two who are Jrs in HS now and the boy is fixated on UT Aerospace.  Put your best foot forward and buy your lotto ticket son, because that's where it is at.

I'm sure it is crushing.  That said the demand for nurses is high, it's a profession that isn't going anywhere (somebody still has to insert the needle, push those drugs, be the actual caregiver, etc) so while difficult at the moment and not what she is going to want to hear right now, if that's what she wants....she's gonna be great down the line wherever she ends up.  

Edited February 3 by Surly Bevo

[Surly Bevo 25738]

I should also add it's different now than it was in the 90s.  You get into nursing school from the jump your freshman year.  The class is the class, I don't remember my daughter ever talking about somebody transferring in, and now being at the size it is and with clinicals firing up this year they all know at least who each other is reasonably well.  

Edited February 3 by Surly Bevo

[Stros121 3]

18 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

I should also add it's different now than it was in the 90s.  You get into nursing school from the jump your freshman year.  The class is the class, I don't remember my daughter ever talking about somebody transferring in, and now being at the size it is and with clinicals firing up this year they all know at least who each other is reasonably well.  

Wow, my daughter was in HOSA, NHS, President of Spanish club, etc. very similar mind set as your daughter at a young age in being in the medical field. She was accepted to Kinesiology at Texas, but her heart is set on becoming a CRNA.  She was offered a scholarship to Texas State as well in nursing. Although Texas State nursing school is in round rock. Who the fuck wants to go to college in round rock?.?.

[Surly Bevo 25738]

Just now, Stros121 said:

Wow, my daughter was in HOSA, NHS, President of Spanish club, etc. very similar mind set as your daughter at a young age in being in the medical field. She was accepted to Kinesiology at Texas, but her heart is set on becoming a CRNA.  She was offered a scholarship to Texas State as well in nursing. Although Texas State nursing school is in round rock. Who the fuck wants to go to college in round rock?.?.

Yea, I hear that.  It's one of the challenges of a lot of nursing schools.  You may spend a few years at the main campus but if the main campus is located in a place that doesn't have a big enough medical community to support what goes on during the last couple of years of nursing school it's off to some auxiliary campus near a more urban area.  

Now that said....my daughter has found herself on clinical rotations at medical facilities in Round Rock so one does not escape Round Rock even at UT.  

[ABSR 5369]

14 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

My rising 9th graders counselors keep telling everyone (kids and parents) not to take "advanced" (pre-AP basically) everything. Take one or two classes with the norms, is how I interpret that. Does anyone listen? Like, she has expressed no real interest in engineering or sciences, but then again she is 14. Maybe she'll suddenly want to go med school and want lots of rigorous high school science. 

So: did yall's UT bound kids take pretty much AP/IB everything?

I told my senior this too, but what he was told is that schools look at what classes are available at each High School,to see how much you challenged yourself, so if you can take more and don’t they implied schools would weigh that in their evaluation.   But for Texas UT and other state schools the first key is class rank without context.

Additionally, our schools gives more weight to AP’s than just GT/honors, so it also impacts class rank.    And to make our school even more anal and stressful for kids each grade in classes is reported and weighted numerically, meaning your report card says you earned a 94 or 87, and your GPA, both regular and weighted, is based on the actual grade and not a range such as A-, or B+ etc.

[yoladu 4190]

with SAT/ACT scores being so devalued by colleges (Univ of California System doesn't even look at them), your GPA, class rank, class rigor, and your essay have become more emphasized.

As far as taking less AP classes, I am pretty sure my son's class rank would have been lower had he not loaded up on AP classes. Every other motivated kid is maxing out, you gotta keep up.

of course if your child is getting a C (or even a bunch of Bs) in an AP courses, you should scale back and try to find a balance. Not easy when you essentially have 3 years to build one's academic resume.

i won't say that the counselor is wrong, but i would be wary.

 

[Cap33 407]

20 hours ago, CleverNickname said:

My rising 9th graders counselors keep telling everyone (kids and parents) not to take "advanced" (pre-AP basically) everything. Take one or two classes with the norms, is how I interpret that. Does anyone listen? Like, she has expressed no real interest in engineering or sciences, but then again she is 14. Maybe she'll suddenly want to go med school and want lots of rigorous high school science. 

So: did yall's UT bound kids take pretty much AP/IB everything?

Yes. But I know of several kids who did not take AP classes or advanced math and got into Education and Communications majors. 

[DaysOff 8209]

My HS Senior is #5 out of 740, she has a 4.76 gpa. Poor girl is crushed because she was denied to UT nursing . She wants to be a CRNA. My wife no pics graduated in 97 from UT nursing. During that time you would apply to nursing school before you junior year. 
Has anyone been around ut nursing recently and or have knowledge on how often freshmen get into the nursing school?
 

It's hyper-competitive. Maybe accept UT Austin in another pre medical professional degree to get all the prerequisites while trying to transfer to the SoN. If that doesn't work, UTMB Galveston is probably a better school anyway.

[CoTex 1177]

Child - top 2% in herclass.  Auto admit - not sure of what she wants to be when she grows up.

 

how do the liberal arts, plan b, honors, etc programs work?

Edited February 3 by CoTex

[CooterBrown 18288]

Not easy when you essentially have 3 years to build one's academic resume.

It’s really two years. Most schools disregard your freshman grades completely.

Also, many schools don’t look at your high school transcript’s GPA. They calculate a GPA for you based on core classes and classes pertinent to your proposed major. Elective grades don’t matter unless it’s related to your major. That 80 in AP Physics that shows up as an A 4.0/5.0 on your weighted HS GPA is given the same 3.0/4.0 as regular physics in the university’s calculation. The advanced course load is looked at separately from the GPA.

[Brew 3049]

7 hours ago, yoladu said:

i won't say that the counselor is wrong, but i would be wary.

 

The lady we worked with eliminated some AP courses in favor of others, but she pushed doing at least 6 AP’s. She was also very specific on ones to not take like AP US History because it wasn’t accepted by a number of colleges and in her view it required too much time commitment for the credit. She pushed AP Euro History for those they wanted a history credit. She also advised our daughter to not do any AP math classes because she was weak in math and double up on the English/Lit where she was strong where she would make an A and a 5. It was a very interesting process overall.

[yoladu 4190]

1 hour ago, Brew said:

The lady we worked with eliminated some AP courses in favor of others, but she pushed doing at least 6 AP’s. She was also very specific on ones to not take like AP US History because it wasn’t accepted by a number of colleges and in her view it required too much time commitment for the credit. She pushed AP Euro History for those they wanted a history credit. She also advised our daughter to not do any AP math classes because she was weak in math and double up on the English/Lit where she was strong where she would make an A and a 5. It was a very interesting process overall.

Honestly, she sounds pretty awesome. We didnt get that type of guidance where we are at.

[alphahydro 337]

this is how I think about undergrad. might be a little contrarian.  and I hope I don't offend.

I live near a bunch of people who stress out way too much about where their kids go to undergrad.   I'm a big community-college-over-Cornell guy. 

Caveat, I think what I am about to say mostly really only applies to parents who think their kid might end up in a professional school or phd program after undergrad.  

Second, it only applies to the competitive parents who want their kids to go to the "BEST" or HIGHEST RANKED type school. 

If you are one of those types of parents, IMO all you should care about is the ceiling associated with the undergrad that ends up on your kids' diploma.  By ceiling, I mean, if you do really well in undergrad at that school, are all postgrad options realistically available to you?

UT undergrad has the same grad school ceiling as Harvard.*  So does UNC, Cal, UCLA, Michigan, UVa, and maybe Florida/Georgia.  

If you can get in-state tuition at these schools, IMO, most kids' "best" path is 

1. H, Y, P, Caltech, MIT, Stanford, if your kid is up for it
2. one of the state schools listed above straight out of high school
3. community college away from home/other system school (eg UTSA), kick ass, then transfer to one of the state schools above and finish there

Guess my point is: if your kid didn't get into Cornell, I wouldn't sweat it.  Personally I would rather my kid go option 2 or 3 than go to Columbia or Williams or Amherst.  I would rather give them the extra $$ I saved and let them start a nonprofit or business with it.  And if you can't kick ass at UTSA and then UT, why am I paying for Amherst anyway? 

And even if they didn't get into UT straight out of high school, I wouldn't sweat it either.   I think option 3 is at least as good as option 2. 

Again, this only applies for parents who are trying to help their kids position themselves to get into a good grad school.  for normal parents, other factors might be more important. 

 

* Yes, you can be a little lower in the class at Harvard and still touch the grad school ceiling, but frankly might be easier to be the top kid at UCLA than the 12th kid from the top at H

[jimmyjazz 47183]

ChatGPT has worn out its welcome.

[alphahydro 337]

other observations, all admittedly anecdotal - 

1) grade inflation, at least at my kids' high school, is insane.  Even in AP classes.  apparently, nowadays, selective schools pay a lot of attention to which classes the applicants take (looking for difficult courses).   cuz grades don't mean as much anymore at so many high schools.   from talking to my kids, it sounds like the admissions process has a lot of arbitrariness to it.   smart kid will get into Harvard but not Northwestern.  Shit like that.  I think the schools just aren't that great at sorting through applicants.  unreliability of grades might have something to do with it, but idk.

2) was having lunch last week with a friend.  Yale undergrad, Stanford Business School.  he interviews undergrad applicants for Yale and Stanford.  He says he interviews all these amazing high school kids and none ever get in.  He asked the guy who runs the local Yale club and that guy said every year Yale admits the top athlete from the rich kid public school then the top nerd from the super smart kid public school and then shuts it down.   lol.

3) Same Yale Stanford guy, same lunch.  He basically runs his own shark tank.  He relates how his Stanford connections are 100x more valuable to him financially/professionally compared to his Yale connections.  (from this convo I gathered he was not tapped for Skull & bones).  That's anecdotal, but everyone I know who is similarly situated feels the same way.  I pick him because Yale is prolly as good a school as any if you are looking to make connections.   I just don't think undergrad is that valuable anymore for people who go on to grad school.  

4) month or so ago, was in Palo Alto visiting friends.  Friend said hey, do you and your kids wanna tour Google HQ?  Sure, why not?  (pretty cool, btw).  anyway, lady who gave us a tour was a recruiter for Google.   she started her career at google recruiting undergrads.   we were chatting during the tour and she said google straight up does not give a fuck about your undergrad (at least for CS applicants) - except that there are a few schools they like bc they teach CS in a way that is compatible with what google does (I don't remember the list, but they weren't prestigious schools)

Again, all this is why I don't sweat undergrad admissions for my kids. 

[tx 3 putt 78677]

1 hour ago, alphahydro said:

I'm a big community-college-over-Cornell guy. 

Guess my point is: if your kid didn't get into Cornell, I wouldn't sweat it.

 

[tx 3 putt 78677]

29 minutes ago, alphahydro said:

other observations, all admittedly anecdotal - 

1) grade inflation, at least at my kids' high school, is insane.  Even in AP classes.  apparently, nowadays, selective schools pay a lot of attention to which classes the applicants take (looking for difficult courses).   cuz grades don't mean as much anymore at so many high schools.   from talking to my kids, it sounds like the admissions process has a lot of arbitrariness to it.   smart kid will get into Harvard but not Northwestern.  Shit like that.  I think the schools just aren't that great at sorting through applicants.  unreliability of grades might have something to do with it, but idk.

2) was having lunch last week with a friend.  Yale undergrad, Stanford Business School.  he interviews undergrad applicants for Yale and Stanford.  He says he interviews all these amazing high school kids and none ever get in.  He asked the guy who runs the local Yale club and that guy said every year Yale admits the top athlete from the rich kid public school then the top nerd from the super smart kid public school and then shuts it down.   lol.

3) Same Yale Stanford guy, same lunch.  He basically runs his own shark tank.  He relates how his Stanford connections are 100x more valuable to him financially/professionally compared to his Yale connections.  (from this convo I gathered he was not tapped for Skull & bones).  That's anecdotal, but everyone I know who is similarly situated feels the same way.  I pick him because Yale is prolly as good a school as any if you are looking to make connections.   I just don't think undergrad is that valuable anymore for people who go on to grad school.  

4) month or so ago, was in Palo Alto visiting friends.  Friend said hey, do you and your kids wanna tour Google HQ?  Sure, why not?  (pretty cool, btw).  anyway, lady who gave us a tour was a recruiter for Google.   she started her career at google recruiting undergrads.   we were chatting during the tour and she said google straight up does not give a fuck about your undergrad (at least for CS applicants) - except that there are a few schools they like bc they teach CS in a way that is compatible with what google does (I don't remember the list, but they weren't prestigious schools)

Again, all this is why I don't sweat undergrad admissions for my kids. 

the ‘prestigious’ schools had no way of keeping up with demand (and population growth) so other schools / programs picked up the slack

companies find the talent 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, alphahydro said:

other observations, all admittedly anecdotal - 

1) grade inflation, at least at my kids' high school, is insane.  Even in AP classes.  apparently, nowadays, selective schools pay a lot of attention to which classes the applicants take (looking for difficult courses).   cuz grades don't mean as much anymore at so many high schools.   from talking to my kids, it sounds like the admissions process has a lot of arbitrariness to it.   smart kid will get into Harvard but not Northwestern.  Shit like that.  I think the schools just aren't that great at sorting through applicants.  unreliability of grades might have something to do with it, but idk.

2) was having lunch last week with a friend.  Yale undergrad, Stanford Business School.  he interviews undergrad applicants for Yale and Stanford.  He says he interviews all these amazing high school kids and none ever get in.  He asked the guy who runs the local Yale club and that guy said every year Yale admits the top athlete from the rich kid public school then the top nerd from the super smart kid public school and then shuts it down.   lol.

3) Same Yale Stanford guy, same lunch.  He basically runs his own shark tank.  He relates how his Stanford connections are 100x more valuable to him financially/professionally compared to his Yale connections.  (from this convo I gathered he was not tapped for Skull & bones).  That's anecdotal, but everyone I know who is similarly situated feels the same way.  I pick him because Yale is prolly as good a school as any if you are looking to make connections.   I just don't think undergrad is that valuable anymore for people who go on to grad school.  

4) month or so ago, was in Palo Alto visiting friends.  Friend said hey, do you and your kids wanna tour Google HQ?  Sure, why not?  (pretty cool, btw).  anyway, lady who gave us a tour was a recruiter for Google.   she started her career at google recruiting undergrads.   we were chatting during the tour and she said google straight up does not give a fuck about your undergrad (at least for CS applicants) - except that there are a few schools they like bc they teach CS in a way that is compatible with what google does (I don't remember the list, but they weren't prestigious schools)

Again, all this is why I don't sweat undergrad admissions for my kids. 

1)  The grade inflation is dumb.  It doesn't make the candidate more competitive.  Admissions( mostly) want to make sure prospects can handle the course load.

4) I was buying a pinball machine and I was chatting with the sellers as we loaded it in my pickup.  I had a West Point hoody on and his  wife asks what my connection was there.  I told her son was a Yuk( Sophomore) and CS major.  She goes in the house and brings me out a business card, and then tells me to put her name as a reference for their version of internships.  She was something, something of recruiting at Raytheon.  It's fucking crazy how connections come out of the blue.  He actually did both of his internships with Sandia; but it was interesting how that discussion went down.

Agree with your latter point, at the end of son's 5 years active duty, his undergrad from USMA was still valuable, along with real life leadership/ applications already on the books; but his Masters from GT was what got his interviews with the top tier companies.

[SuckitKevin 979]

Daughter just got her acceptance letter to UT nursing. She had almost resigned herself to going somewhere else because acceptance is so difficult. We’re beyond proud of her but she’s a little hesitant to fully commit right now. I think she’s a little shocked but also nervous about leaving home for the first time. My son will be a senior Biology/ pre med track student so I think the transition will be fine. I just don’t think this is something she can pass up.

[tx 3 putt 78677]

9 minutes ago, SuckitKevin said:

Daughter just got her acceptance letter to UT nursing. She had almost resigned herself to going somewhere else because acceptance is so difficult. We’re beyond proud of her but she’s a little hesitant to fully commit right now. I think she’s a little shocked but also nervous about leaving home for the first time. My son will be a senior Biology/ pre med track student so I think the transition will be fine. I just don’t think this is something she can pass up.

congrats man 

[SuckitKevin 979]

22 minutes ago, SuckitKevin said:

Daughter just got her acceptance letter to UT nursing. She had almost resigned herself to going somewhere else because acceptance is so difficult. We’re beyond proud of her but she’s a little hesitant to fully commit right now. I think she’s a little shocked but also nervous about leaving home for the first time. My son will be a senior Biology/ pre med track student so I think the transition will be fine. I just don’t think this is something she can pass up.

Btw, she’s ranked #3 out of about 750. She’s taken as many sciences (all Ap or pre-AP) as she was able to, but I think what put her over the top was her experience at CAMP camp and her essay about her experiences there. For those of you who have kids that want to give them a life changing lesson, think about having them sign up as a counselor. Counselors are 1 on 1 with a special needs child for a week. My daughter was administering food through a feeding tube, changing diapers if needed, helping with showers or sponge baths, and getting children ready for the day. It’s a real camp with swimming and horseback riding for kids that don’t normally qualify for camps. As much as the kids get out of this, the counselors get even more. My daughter still keeps in touch with one of her “campers” and even went to her birthday party. Just sharing for future applicants.

[Surly Bevo 25738]

9 minutes ago, SuckitKevin said:

Btw, she’s ranked #3 out of about 750. She’s taken as many sciences (all Ap or pre-AP) as she was able to, but I think what put her over the top was her experience at CAMP camp and her essay about her experiences there. For those of you who have kids that want to give them a life changing lesson, think about having them sign up as a counselor. Counselors are 1 on 1 with a special needs child for a week. My daughter was administering food through a feeding tube, changing diapers if needed, helping with showers or sponge baths, and getting children ready for the day. It’s a real camp with swimming and horseback riding for kids that don’t normally qualify for camps. As much as the kids get out of this, the counselors get even more. My daughter still keeps in touch with one of her “campers” and even went to her birthday party. Just sharing for future applicants.

Yep, like I said in my post I think at least for something like nursing they like to see that you have had some meaningful experience and still think you want to go into the field.  It's one thing to want to go into nursing, it's another to have changed shit diapers, been yelled at by dementia-addled patients, had to deal with a pompous ass doctor, etc AND STILL want to go into it.  

Edited February 4 by Surly Bevo

[jimmyjazz 47183]

I honestly suspect the essay is paramount in admissions.  My son got CAPed out of the clear blue sky.  I mean, I figured he had zero shot.  The grades and scores just weren't there.  He wrote an essay that was CLEARLY not crafted by a writing coach or parent.  (All I did was correct a couple of misspelled words and grammatical errors.)  The thing was, it was heartfelt.  He played on a high regional/national level soccer club and he wrote about how it exposed him to kids with all kinds of different backgrounds (obviously, many Hispanic), and how he had to learn to respect their points of view in order to make the team better.  That dude is on campus in Austin now, and while he's probably not gonna graduate summa cum laude, he's getting by and loving it.  He's starting to talk about med school, for fuck's sake.  (Might end up in Grenada, but hey, med school is med school, right?)

[alphahydro 337]

7 hours ago, slorch said:

1)  The grade inflation is dumb.  It doesn't make the candidate more competitive.  Admissions( mostly) want to make sure prospects can handle the course load.

4) I was buying a pinball machine and I was chatting with the sellers as we loaded it in my pickup.  I had a West Point hoody on and his  wife asks what my connection was there.  I told her son was a Yuk( Sophomore) and CS major.  She goes in the house and brings me out a business card, and then tells me to put her name as a reference for their version of internships.  She was something, something of recruiting at Raytheon.  It's fucking crazy how connections come out of the blue.  He actually did both of his internships with Sandia; but it was interesting how that discussion went down.

Agree with your latter point, at the end of son's 5 years active duty, his undergrad from USMA was still valuable, along with real life leadership/ applications already on the books; but his Masters from GT was what got his interviews with the top tier companies.

Good call.  i forgot about the military academies.   would definitely include those on my list.  friend of mine is west point, went to law school, worked at a prestigious international law firm, and is now C suite at a big company.  aside from all that, he is a total badass, and i think a lot of that comes from undergrad and his military service.  we all call him tank commander. 

imo, it's not that undergrad isn't important - it's really important because it shapes you.  but when i think about how a kid gets shaped by (a) the prestigious liberal arts college that coddles its students and (b) leaving home, getting a job, acing community college, then navigating a large public university --that's another reason why i don't stress about undergrad admissions like a lot of my friends do.  

Sandia Nat'l Labs?  small world.  my dad worked there. 

[Surly Bevo 25738]

The grade inflation and maybe more specifically at least in my kid's school district the inflation Honors/Pre-AP/AP comes with for GPA purposes is out of control.  In this district you take a regular class and get 100 that's a 4.0 for your weighted GPA (which is what class rank is determined on). You take an Honors/Pre-AP class and get 100 that's a 5.0.  You take an AP Class and get 100 that's a 6.0.  So a big difference in what acing the class means.  But, consider this.  The sliding scale means a kid getting a 70 in an AP class gets a 4.0 for that 70.  So the kid who gets a 70 in an AP class gets the same GPA benefit as the kid who ACES a regular version of the same class.  Come the fuck on.   Back in the 90s when I was in Richardson ISD you took an Honors class you got 3 points added to whatever your final grade was.  Take an AP course, that was worth 5 points.  So get an 88 and that becomes a 91 or 93 depending on the level of the class, etc.  Something along those lines seems more reasonable.  Maybe an AP class is worth 7-10 more points nowadays.... I dunno, but I sure as hell know it ain't worth 30.  

And I say all of this with kids who routinely take those higher-level classes.  

[alphahydro 337]

56 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I honestly suspect the essay is paramount in admissions.  My son got CAPed out of the clear blue sky.  I mean, I figured he had zero shot.  The grades and scores just weren't there.  He wrote an essay that was CLEARLY not crafted by a writing coach or parent.  (All I did was correct a couple of misspelled words and grammatical errors.)  The thing was, it was heartfelt.  He played on a high regional/national level soccer club and he wrote about how it exposed him to kids with all kinds of different backgrounds (obviously, many Hispanic), and how he had to learn to respect their points of view in order to make the team better.  That dude is on campus in Austin now, and while he's probably not gonna graduate summa cum laude, he's getting by and loving it.  He's starting to talk about med school, for fuck's sake.  (Might end up in Grenada, but hey, med school is med school, right?)

dead on, imo. 

i think it goes a long way if a personal statement reveals that a kid (a) is willing to follow a passion and (b) is capable of looking beyond the views he or she has been force fed by his or her local environment/family.   It also sounds like your son's story showed significant, authentic leadership/team building potential.   

my son plays high level soccer.  ever since he started, i said, imagine you are playing fifa and you can go up to each player at key points in the game, punch in a code and they play 10% better - you'd do that, right?  Same thing in real life, but the code is words and you gotta figure out what to say to each player.  like this: 

for some guys - and for otehr guys, you gotta yell at them.  lol

i also told him if you want to go to Harvard, take a year or two off and go play for an academy in spain/s.america/asia.  Then write your personal statement about it. 

Edited February 4 by alphahydro
added bit

[CTC2 2865]

I have had two kids get in.  They went to a large competitive public high school. It’s my suspicion that admissions has a preference for these schools. 
At least when they got in, UT gave applicants two scores. One, being scholalastic (test score, GPA, class rank) and the other being holistic (essay, resume, references etc). 

These are some things I learned:

Get someone to help the kid with their essays. If nothing else it keeps them on task so it’s not all crammed in and rushed. It should be a process and written over time which allows for further thought and just a better overall presentation.  
 

Get some work experience in the field that you are applying for a major in. Does not have to be a 9-5 job. Maybe it was just an unpaid internship during the summer. Or, ask someone in the field if they can shadow them for a couple of weeks and call it an internship. They seem to like kids who show some interest in their field by actually going out and learning something about it. 
 

My kids actually started a small business selling some things that they were making. Had them in some stores locally.  Not a huge deal but it did make their resume tie into their proposed major. 
 

Encourage your kid to try for a leadership position in any student group they are in.  
 

You should also prepare them for people that they know who appear to be less qualified academically to get in. It really all comes down to how competitive their major is.  Comparing the average stats needed to get into business vs social work is really apples vs oranges. 
 

Letters of recommendation are worthless unless they come from a teacher who has greater than normal insight into the student and can offer some unique perspective.