Surly kids applying / attending UT

[fattyflattie 4633]

20 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Following up, all is good in casa de Fudge.  The boy got accepted to West Point today.  He's kind of a big deal now.

Congrats. 

[tx 3 putt 75474]

4 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Following up, all is good in casa de Fudge.  The boy got accepted to West Point today.  He's kind of a big deal now.

amazing and congrats !

[South Austin 51633]

10 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Following up, all is good in casa de Fudge.  The boy got accepted to West Point today.  He's kind of a big deal now.

Fucking A!

[Hefeweizen 5222]

10 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Following up, all is good in casa de Fudge.  The boy got accepted to West Point today.  He's kind of a big deal now.

That’s awesome!  Congratulations.

[nycHorn 2936]

My nephew is taking a tour of campus today. Kid is wicked smahht.

[Fudge Nuggets 18977]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:41 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Following up, all is good in casa de Fudge.  The boy got accepted to West Point today.  He's kind of a big deal now.

Before hearing back from West Point, he put in an appeal to UT for ChemE and found out yesterday he got accepted. West Point has always been his first choice, so barring any disaster that’s where he’s going.

[tx 3 putt 75474]

On 3/29/2024 at 8:33 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Before hearing back from West Point, he put in an appeal to UT for ChemE and found out yesterday he got accepted. West Point has always been his first choice, so barring any disaster that’s where he’s going.

why chemE ? (I have a chemE degree)

[jimmyjazz 45192]

On 3/20/2024 at 8:41 PM, Fudge Nuggets said:

Following up, all is good in casa de Fudge.  The boy got accepted to West Point today.  He's kind of a big deal now.

That's awesome, congrats to your son.  Two of my cousins graduated from West Point.  To say both have led successful lives would be understating it.  One is still serving as a full bird colonel, although I think he has to move to the reserves soon if not already.

[Fudge Nuggets 18977]

13 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

why chemE ? (I have a chemE degree)

He wants to do engineering and liked chemistry way more than any of the other core sciences.

[CoTex 1157]

Anybody got any recommendations for best girl's dorm?  Hardin House?  Scottish Rite?  Van down by the river?

 

[Cap33 381]

If she wants to rush, then Hardin House and SRD. Callaway House is also popular.

HH and SRD fill up quickly. Have your act together when the contracts come out and get them back asap.

Edited April 10 by Cap33

[Jerry Callo 8630]

I'm not sure when they started this ring ceremony, but it's turned into a pretty big event.  Rings spent the night in the lit tower and then some sort of celebration today with the band, cheerleaders, and probably some speechifying.

[jimmyjazz 45192]

On 4/9/2024 at 1:54 PM, CoTex said:

Anybody got any recommendations for best girl's dorm?

I dated a girl who lived in Kinsolving.  I have little other experience with women's dorms, but I can wholeheartedly recommend Kinsolving.

EDIT:  perhaps my experiences were not what you are looking for when it comes to your daughter.  

Edited April 19 by jimmyjazz

[Farmerted 122]

 

Not sure this is correct thread but graduation last night at DKR

 

 

pretty cool

 

[bonnieblue 542]

On 4/9/2024 at 1:54 PM, CoTex said:

Anybody got any recommendations for best girl's dorm?  Hardin House?  Scottish Rite?  Van down by the river?

 

I loved my time at SRD, and it was a little more down to earth than Hardin.
If she’s going to rush and end up a Kappa, Theta or Pi Phi then Hardin, if she’s not rushing or won’t make it into those three, I would recommend SRD.

[BigHorn'13 3346]

SIAP

We're ivy league now, birch!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhitford/2024/04/29/the-new-ivies-as-employers-sour-on-the-super-elite-these-20-colleges-shine/?sh=4c2e10e2438f

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhitford/2024/04/29/exclusive-employers-are-souring-on-ivy-league-grads-while-these-20-new-ivies-ascend/?sh=70b3c5de5585

[HookEm 2432]

On 2/4/2024 at 12:04 AM, alphahydro said:

If you are one of those types of parents, IMO all you should care about is the ceiling associated with the undergrad that ends up on your kids' diploma.  By ceiling, I mean, if you do really well in undergrad at that school, are all postgrad options realistically available to you?  UT undergrad has the same grad school ceiling as Harvard.*  So does UNC, Cal, UCLA, Michigan, UVa, and maybe Florida/Georgia.

In my view, almost all the state schools have the same ceiling if you are an exceptional student. There are just a lot more exceptional students at the better schools.

Anecdote alert:  At our work there was a young Finance guy who graduated from Texas Tech (and played golf there).  He was smart and ambitious and was quickly rising through the ranks.  Decided to get a full-time MBA and did very well on his GMAT. Was offered a full ride to both Rice and Vanderbilt.  

I don't think this is an unusual story. If you have a great GPA and test extremely well, I don't think it matters if you go to UT vs. NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, UC San Diego, Oregon State,  Arkansas or similar schools. In fact, I think a great GPA at those schools will be seen more positively than an "ok" GPA at UT.

[alphahydro 332]

5 hours ago, HookEm said:

In my view, almost all the state schools have the same ceiling if you are an exceptional student. There are just a lot more exceptional students at the better schools.

Anecdote alert:  At our work there was a young Finance guy who graduated from Texas Tech (and played golf there).  He was smart and ambitious and was quickly rising through the ranks.  Decided to get a full-time MBA and did very well on his GMAT. Was offered a full ride to both Rice and Vanderbilt.  

I don't think this is an unusual story. If you have a great GPA and test extremely well, I don't think it matters if you go to UT vs. NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, UC San Diego, Oregon State,  Arkansas or similar schools. In fact, I think a great GPA at those schools will be seen more positively than an "ok" GPA at UT.

We might be talking about two different things, but I would say there is definitely a ceiling when it comes to the best of the best graduate programs.  

for example: https://law.yale.edu/admissions-financial-aid/jd-admissions/profiles-statistics/undergraduate-institutions-represented-yls-2020-24

from your list, in the past 5 years, no one was accepted to YLS from NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, or Arkansas.  (or if they were, they were not attending when this list was compiled).

You don't have to go very far down the US News Best colleges list before acceptances dry up.  UC Davis, ranked 28th nationally, sent zero kids to Yale law in the past 5 years.  Georgia Tech at 33 -> 0.  By the time you get out of the top 50, Minnesota at 53, zero; William and Mary (tied 53; zero) Stony Brook zero. 

Any between 75-85, you have only two schools that sent kids to Yale law in the last 5 years (UC Riverside and UC Santa Cruz).

It's nice that they took someone from Oregon State, but that kid does not represent Oregon State grads each year.  he represents all the graduating students at what 20? peer schools over a 5 year period.

https://bulletin.yale.edu/sites/default/files/yale-law-school-2019-2020.pdf

Page 116 shows the breakdown by undergrad college for the last 3 admission cycles at Yale Law. 

These are the undergrad institutions from which the law school admitted, on average, 5 or more students each year: 

• Brown (5 per year)
• Chicago (6 per year)
• Columbia (11 per year)
• Cornell (6 per year)
• Dartmouth (7 per year)
• Harvard (19 per year)
• Princeton (10 per year)
• Stanford (7 per year)
• Penn (5 per year)
• Yale (30 per year)

Here are the places that send 3-4 per year:

• Duke
• Georgetown
• Berkeley

The only other public school with 1+ kids per class were:

• UCLA (5 kids in 3 classes)
• Uconn (5 in 3 classes)
• Florida (4)
• Georgia (3)
• Maryland (3)
• Michigan (8)
• UNC (5)
• UVa (7)
• UW (3)

If my math is correct, the top 10 ivy type schools fill about half the class. 

After Florida/Georgia/UW, you could be the best applicant from your undergrad and still get denied. 

Going back to your list.  in the 2018, 2017, and 2016 cycles, there were zero kids from NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, Oregon State, or Arkansas who attended Yale law.  There were 2 from UC San Diego.

If you aren't going to a top 30-50 type school, you could be the best applicant from your school in the past few cycles and still not have a shot.   That's what I mean by ceiling. 

Yale law is obviously very selective, but I think the same trend applies at other top grad programs. 

You see the same thing at Harvard Law, which has a much larger class.  Last year, from your list, zero from NC State, South Carolina, Oregon State, or Arkansas.  https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

https://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/class-profile/Pages/undergraduate-institutions.aspx. HBS class of 2015- zero from NC State or Arkansas. 

I didn't see anything from med schools. But my understanding is there are similar patterns at the very top PhD programs in the hard sciences. 

HUGE CAVEAT - I personally don't care about this stuff - my point in the original post was only that if you are the type of parent who does care, your kid is better off a Florida/Georgia/UT/Michigan after community college than going to Williams or Amherst.  using the info above, I may have been exaggerating a bit, but Williams put 4 kids at YLS over 3 years; Amherst 6.   Michigan put 8, Florida 4, Georgia 3.  I would rather try to be the top law applicant from Georgia than from Williams.  But that's just me.

To go back to my original point - Georgia has a similar ceiling to Williams, imo.  But I wouldn't put Arky, Oregon State, NC State in that same category when it comes to the ceiling at the top top top grad programs. 

[alphahydro 332]

random.  I live outside Texas. 

my son was wearing a Texas hoodie to school and another kid asked him about.  that other kid is going to UT next year.  Said she's getting in state tuition because her dad bought or rented a place in Texas 2 years ago (even though he doesn't live there). 

does that sound legit?  is residency based on the parents or the kid?  I would think UT would see her transcripts from an out of state high school and figure out she didn't live in Texas last year. 

just curious

[CleverNickname 1281]

if they have divorced parents, one might declare a Texas primary residence for the prior 12 months. I'm not sure if that has to be the primary parent (probably?), but I imagine reasonable coparenting ex's can figure out how to play the right cards for their shared child. Just decide who is going to declare the dependent on the 2023 1040. No university is going to asm for divorce records, just tax stuff. Declaring the TX residence as primary might be a little sketchy, but probably not too much of a paperwork burden. I think you can also show TX residency as a parent if you own a TX business; or maybe if parent is married to someone who is a TX resident. 

Edited May 13 by CleverNickname

[freyguy 4239]

Having a place for 2 yrs in Texas is a legit criteria.  Good on them for looking ahead.

[CooterBrown 17735]

random.  I live outside Texas. 
my son was wearing a Texas hoodie to school and another kid asked him about.  that other kid is going to UT next year.  Said she's getting in state tuition because her dad bought or rented a place in Texas 2 years ago (even though he doesn't live there). 
does that sound legit?  is residency based on the parents or the kid?  I would think UT would see her transcripts from an out of state high school and figure out she didn't live in Texas last year. 
just curious

Most states base allow residency on either parent’s legal residence.

[Dennis Taylor 18607]

I don't see how the high school they attended isn't what decides it 

[HookEm 2432]

15 hours ago, alphahydro said:

If you aren't going to a top 30-50 type school, you could be the best applicant from your school in the past few cycles and still not have a shot.   That's what I mean by ceiling. 

Good information. Interesting.  I think the data shows that you have a vastly better chance at getting in to a great graduate program (like Yale Law) if you go to an elite college. 

But, as I mentioned it is still possible to get in from a less respected program.  Students from the following schools have gotten in since 2020...

• West Texas A&M
• Oklahoma Baptist
• Youngstown State
• Utica College
• Louisville
• Houston

I agree with everything you said though.  If it is important to you that your child get into a truly elite graduate program, they will be swimming upstream if they are trying to get there from a weak school.

Edited May 14 by HookEm

[South Austin 51633]

This thread is really into that whole Yale thing.

Yale thing?

Yeah, Yale thing.

What whole Yale thing?

Well, for one thing, I think posters here are probably closet homosexuals who do a lot of cocaine. That whole "Yale thing."

[jimmyjazz 45192]

I'd question what "elite" really means.  If you want to become a Federal judge, or sit on the Supreme Court, then yeah, an Ivy League law degree is probably a requirement.  (Amy Coney Barrett is the exception that proves the rule, among a few others.)

If you want to practice at a top law firm?  I be surprised if a JD from Texas or Northwestern or UCLA, etc. would be a hindrance.

In my world (engineering), I mostly expect at least a master's degree for anything beyond an entry level hire, but if that degree is from Colorado or UNC or Arizona it doesn't necessarily put a candidate behind someone who came out of Stanford or Texas or Michigan.

Edited May 14 by jimmyjazz
grammer

[Fudge Nuggets 18977]

On 4/19/2024 at 4:16 PM, Jerry Callo said:

I'm not sure when they started this ring ceremony, but it's turned into a pretty big event.  Rings spent the night in the lit tower and then some sort of celebration today with the band, cheerleaders, and probably some speechifying.

Too aggy for comfort.

On 4/19/2024 at 6:02 PM, jimmyjazz said:

I dated a girl who lived in Kinsolving.  I have little other experience with women's dorms, but I can wholeheartedly recommend Kinsolving.

EDIT:  perhaps my experiences were not what you are looking for when it comes to your daughter.  

Didn't you go to college like 40 years ago?  Shit's probably changed since then.

[jimmyjazz 45192]

6 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Didn't you go to college like 40 years ago? 

Not QUITE that long ago.

[HookEm 2432]

From a hiring perspective, I think there is a lot of regional bias.  Everyone in Texas knows the hierarchy of Texas schools.  If I get a resume for a junior position and the person went to Texas, I view it differently than if they went to Texas State. But honestly, I have no idea if Clemson, South Carolina or College of Charleston is the better school.  Is Minnesota better than Iowa? No idea. If someone in Florida is hiring and two candidates have a Texas Tech and a Virginia Tech degree are they differentiated at all?

I saw the other day that Florida is ranked higher than Texas. That surprised me as I didn't realize they were that competitive.  

I have gotten where I really don't like the university rankings honestly.  They don't matter for the most part in the "real world", but it creates a huge amount of angst and stress for our kids.  And I think a lot of kids make bad decisions to attend "better" schools, but end up with worse degrees because they decide to go Liberal Arts somewhere like Texas vs. getting an engineering degree somewhere like Houston.

[jimmyjazz 45192]

13 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Is Minnesota better than Iowa?

Absolutely.

 

Quote

No idea. If someone in Florida is hiring and two candidates have a Texas Tech and a Virginia Tech degree are they differentiated at all?

VaTech is superior in most disciplines.

 

Quote

And I think a lot of kids make bad decisions to attend "better" schools, but end up with worse degrees because they decide to go Liberal Arts somewhere like Texas vs. getting an engineering degree somewhere like Houston.

Well, there is that thing where some kids don't want to major in engineering.

[Fudge Nuggets 18977]

I've never hired someone based solely on what school they went to.  Attending and succeeding at a top school will give you a good chance to reach the interview stage, but once the interviews start everyone is on a level field.  If you weren't considered good enough to do the work then you wouldn't be getting an interview.  At that point it's more how will you fit in with the team, do you come across as this job is beneath you or do you have a good attitude about it, etc. etc. etc.

[HookEm 2432]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, there is that thing where some kids don't want to major in engineering.

That isn't my point.  My point is that kids feel pressured to go to the better school, even if it means studying something that isn't what they are interested in.

[jimmyjazz 45192]

1 minute ago, HookEm said:

That isn't my point.  My point is that kids feel pressured to go to the better school, even if it means studying something that isn't what they are interested in.

Well, I don't know the numbers, but I doubt too many kids who want to (for instance) major in engineering decide to major in English at UT because they couldn't get into Cockrell.  I'm sure it happens, though.  Some of them might think they could eventually transfer within UT and find out later that's not very common.

[CooterBrown 17735]

15 hours ago, Dennis Taylor said:

I don't see how the high school they attended isn't what decides it 

Kids of divorced parents don't generally get to pick which parent they live with.  It's a good thing states don't hold that against them in this instance.

 

[SimonBolivar 10677]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, there is that thing where some kids don't want to major in engineering.

For real, the wife and I make 3x the average household salary from our region with degrees in History and Spanish. Sure, plenty of people want more than what we make and can get that with STEM, but you can also live comfortably with whatever degree interests you (which isn't @HookEm 's point but still worth noting).

Edited May 14 by SimonBolivar

[DixonHur 10858]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

VaTech is superior in most disciplines.

Also, Blacksburg > Lubbock

[South Austin 51633]

5 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Also, Blacksburg > Lubbock

True, but they both smell like cow shit.

[DixonHur 10858]

2 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, I don't know the numbers, but I doubt too many kids who want to (for instance) major in engineering decide to major in English at UT because they couldn't get into Cockrell.  I'm sure it happens, though.  Some of them might think they could eventually transfer within UT and find out later that's not very common.

I started in Aerospace Engineering at UT, but hated it.  My lack of interest, and my partying, led to me failing out.  After I got my shit together in the Navy I came back and got my degree in film.

12 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

For real, the wife and I make 3x the average household salary from our region with degrees in History and Spanish. Sure, plenty of people want more than what we make and can get that with STEM, but you can also live comfortably with whatever degree interests you (which isn't @HookEm 's point but still worth noting).

Exactly.  I'd rather have UT degree in any discipline as opposed to specialized degree, engineering in the examples presented, from Houston.

With an English, History, Spanish, of in my case Film degree from UT you can always go to good law school or get your MBA if you want to make more money.  I did the later (also at UT) and it's worked out well.

I don't think the same would have been true if I went to Cougar High.  But obviously I can't prove it.

3 minutes ago, South Austin said:

True, but they both smell like cow shit.

But in Blacksburg you can quickly escape to the mountains...in Lubbock you can quickly escape to Muleshoe.

[jimmyjazz 45192]

I lived in Blacksburg for a while when my dad was an engineering prof there.  It's a lovely little town in a beautiful part of the country.

I've never lived in Lubbock, but I've been there.  I'm confident nobody could confuse the two.

[alphahydro 332]

I view the schools as falling into tiers. 

with undergrads, it's something like

1. top 5/6 (harvard, princeton, yale, etc)
2. rest of the ivies plus a few other top schools
3. next tranche, including the top public schools through Georgia/Texas-ish
4. and so on

First, the same school might fall into different tiers depending on the major, etc.

Second, at each school, there are levels.  Say: top handful of kids at a given school, top 5%, top 20%, bottom half.   Yes, the top kid in tier 3 does better than a bottom half kid in tier 1, but comparing top kid to top kid in different tiers, there's a difference in outcomes.  If you compare outcomes across levels between two schools and they are roughly the same, that's how you know those two schools are in the same tier. 

Third, I'm personally not a big fan of tier 2.  I think you are better off in tier 3 in you can get in state tuition (unless you have money to burn).  My original post was: if my kid didn't get into any tier ones and missed the local, in-state tuition tier 3, but got into a tier 2, i would send them to community college, then have them transfer to the local tier 3 before i would pay for the tier 2.  

Finally, I agree that if you are at your final destination school (professional school or undergrad if not getting an advanced degree), in my mind you should (rule of thumb) go tier 1 or best local/regional school, because of the regional bias and networking benefits. 

going back to the yale law data.  basically the top 25/30 kids at Yale/Harvard undergrad get the same results as the top kid from Florida/Georgia/UNC every year. 

If you had paid for your kid to go to a tier 2 school like Amherst or Williams, they still have to end up as the top 1-2 applicants from their school, same as if you had sent them to UF, UGA, UM, etc. 

If you go to a tier 4 or below school (much below FL/GA/UNC), you could be the top applicant from your school that year and have basically zero chance at Harvard or Yale Law, Harvard Business, etc, in a given year (or in a multiple year span).      

again, my only point was, a lot of parents i know are pushing their kids into tier 2 because they think it puts them in a better position to get into a good grad school and i personally wouldn't if i had access to in state tuition at a tier 3 public.  maybe im just cheap.   but i don't see the appeal of the williams and amhersts 

 

[HookEm 2432]

19 hours ago, DixonHur said:

in Lubbock you can quickly escape to Muleshoe.

Lol.  I'm from Muleshoe.  It was actually a great place to grow up... way better than the Austin suburbs I have subjected my kids to.

[texasdago 7407]

On 5/13/2024 at 9:35 AM, HookEm said:

I don't think this is an unusual story. If you have a great GPA and test extremely well, I don't think it matters if you go to UT vs. NC State, Minnesota, South Carolina, UC San Diego, Oregon State,  Arkansas or similar schools. In fact, I think a great GPA at those schools will be seen more positively than an "ok" GPA at UT.

I'm glad I never had an interest in graduate school because I would have been screwed.  My GPA at UT was really low... very low.  Like, just made it out.  The only person I know of who had a lower GPA at UT is our CEO.  If you're not going into graduate studies or engineering (you know, aggy bridge-builders), I cannot overemphasize the importance of using college to help you build your social and influencing skills.  Personality can be a cheat code, so to speak.  Not that mine is a winning personality but you know what I mean.  I've met a lot of aggies because of what I do and some of their personalities are stunningly bland.  That impacts future career prospects.  

[DixonHur 10858]

3 hours ago, HookEm said:

Lol.  I'm from Muleshoe.  It was actually a great place to grow up... way better than the Austin suburbs I have subjected my kids to.

Only been through Muleshoe a handful of times, on the way to New Mexico, and every time we drove through a literal cloud of particalized manure.

I don't know how you survived.

[texasdago 7407]

6 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Only been through Muleshoe a handful of times, on the way to New Mexico, and every time we drove through a literal cloud of particalized manure.

I don't know how you survived.

If the wind is blowing in the wrong direction, it smells like a massive public restroom full of overflowing piss troughs.

[Ollie Slatt 289]

On 5/14/2024 at 8:51 AM, jimmyjazz said:

If you want to practice at a top law firm?  I be surprised if a JD from Texas or Northwestern or UCLA, etc. would be a hindrance.

Traditionally, top firms interview on campus at the top ~15 law schools. They will hire from one of the elite schools without knowing grades. A candidate from somewhere like UT that is in that traditional top 15 group but not "elite" will need a decent GPA. Students from schools outside the top ~15 schools can still get jobs at top firms (typically in the city nearest the law school) if they are near the top of their class.  

[HookEm 2432]

20 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Only been through Muleshoe a handful of times, on the way to New Mexico, and every time we drove through a literal cloud of particalized manure.

Smells like money.

I lived northeast of town and I never got the stench.  My wife lived west of town and it would sometimes get bad. But they also had a big variety of animals (cows, pigs, sheep, goats, chickens) and so it never exactly smelled like a hospital anyway.

I did enjoy being so close to New Mexico.  The mountains were less than 3 hours away if you drove fast.

[texasdago 7407]

17 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Smells like money.

I lived northeast of town and I never got the stench.  My wife lived west of town and it would sometimes get bad. But they also had a big variety of animals (cows, pigs, sheep, goats, chickens) and so it never exactly smelled like a hospital anyway.

I did enjoy being so close to New Mexico.  The mountains were less than 3 hours away if you drove fast.

I'll be honest I can't imagine growing up out there... but I can see the benefit of wasting as much time as possible traveling out to Taos.

[HookEm 2432]

In high school, the ability to get in your car, get your girlfriend and find a turn-row out in the country, where you have zero risk of being disturbed by anyone, and where the stars stretch to the horizon... well, that is a pretty fun Friday night.  But I suppose the same could be many small towns.  

I guess that is a topic for another thread.

[DixonHur 10858]

1 hour ago, HookEm said:

find a turn-row out in the country

I grew up on the mean streets of the Lake Highlands area in Dallas, so I have no idea what that means.

We had the piers, and boat docks of White Rock Lake.

[HookEm 2432]

A turn-row is a strip of land / dirt road at the edge of a field where the tractor turns around. It is off the main road and sometimes has trees around it.  Since it is away from any road (and at night), the odds of anyone driving on it are basically zero.