B12 OFFICIALS SUUUUUUUUCK

[Noah Fence 480]

15 minutes ago, hornian said:

Uhh... a Texas player was flagged for "holstering" the guns against TT a few years back. 

Missed that one  

[Skipper 6200]

The officiating in this conference is an absolute disgrace and has been for years.    If Bowlsby wants to actually do something that might keep this conference viable he could make officiating the #1 priority.  Double the fucking pay and get the best of the best instead of trotting out the same clueless fucks week in and week out.  Lord knows there is enough money.

[QuesoEspecial 255]

I am a glutton for punishment so went back and took a look at our first down at the 4 yard line at the beginning of the 2nd half. First off Collin Johnson got it on 3rd down and the announcers called it as such on the field. Next Sam missed the conversion according to an absurd multi-minute review despite the call on the field (due to helmet fly off and him being down at the precise second which is counter to all football watched ever) and from rational viewers including announcers in real time as first down. This conference has refs that insist upon the game and it sucks...ridiculous!

[SuckitKevin 920]

46 minutes ago, QuesoEspecial said:

I am a glutton for punishment so went back and took a look at our first down at the 4 yard line at the beginning of the 2nd half. First off Collin Johnson got it on 3rd down and the announcers called it as such on the field. Next Sam missed the conversion according to an absurd multi-minute review despite the call on the field (due to helmet fly off and him being down at the precise second which is counter to all football watched ever) and from rational viewers including announcers in real time as first down. This conference has refs that insist upon the game and it sucks...ridiculous!

Yeah, when they reversed that one I lost my shit. The replay they were relying on was an angle from the end zone, not straight across the field. There is no way you can tell where the ball is when Sam’s butt went down when you’re looking at it from an angle like that. Reversals are supposed to happen only when there is clear evidence. Absolutely ridiculous !

[Bullneck 19206]

And yet when we scored a 1 point safety against aggy they got the call right.  Stopped clock and all that jazz.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Bullneck

[dcar00 14365]

where is the comment from Big 12 Bob "Associate Director of picking dingleberries out of Bowlsby's Ass"  saying that his shitastic crew completely forgot the rule about horsecollar in the pocket?  where are you Big 12 Bob?

[B00M 6463]

Am i the only one surprised that you can supposedly horse collar a QB in the pocket? That just doesn't make sense in modern football. It looked nasty, like Roach injured him. 

[taybo20 2878]

 

2 hours ago, QuesoEspecial said:

I am a glutton for punishment so went back and took a look at our first down at the 4 yard line at the beginning of the 2nd half. First off Collin Johnson got it on 3rd down and the announcers called it as such on the field. Next Sam missed the conversion according to an absurd multi-minute review despite the call on the field (due to helmet fly off and him being down at the precise second which is counter to all football watched ever) and from rational viewers including announcers in real time as first down. This conference has refs that insist upon the game and it sucks...ridiculous!

I just rewatched it too. CJ got it, and it was a bad spot but they didn't stop play to review. Then on the Sam review, that was pretty inconclusive to me. Yeah and argument can be made, but proof is required, not an argument. That was pretty shitty.

[dcar00 14365]

1 minute ago, taybo20 said:

 

I just rewatched it too. CJ got it, and it was a bad spot but they didn't stop play to review. Then on the Sam review, that was pretty inconclusive to me. Yeah and argument can be made, but proof is required, not an argument. That was pretty shitty.

the linesman on that side of the field(ours) was lazy.  all game he was marking us short. he was the same guy that marked the Sam run also.  the non review of the CJ catch pissed me off more than the 4th down review, although both were BS.  There was no reason not to look at the CJ catch considering the lazy ass linseman was 10 yards behind the play.

we keep getting screwed not having our spots reviewed when they would benefit us.  the Big 12 review refs are a joke.

[Skipper 6200]

3 minutes ago, taybo20 said:

 

I just rewatched it too. CJ got it, and it was a bad spot but they didn't stop play to review. Then on the Sam review, that was pretty inconclusive to me. Yeah and argument can be made, but proof is required, not an argument. That was pretty shitty.

I don't know why CFB doesn't go to a challenge system like the NFL.  Why they wasted 10 minutes of game time to challenge that, which looked obvious on the field, but then don't review 2 horribly bad 3rd down spots that would have been first downs for us I'll never understand.  

[dcar00 14365]

45 minutes ago, B00M said:

Am i the only one surprised that you can supposedly horse collar a QB in the pocket? That just doesn't make sense in modern football. It looked nasty, like Roach injured him. 

guys rushing the pocket should be engaged and not have a free run.  the roy williams rule was put in place because a guy running full speed and having a guy grab his collar and bring all his weight to his legs is going to have a huge chance at a major injury.

[utee94 15862]

3 hours ago, Nivek said:

Roy was flagged for the Hook em.

That one was just mind-blowingly horrible.  

[dcar00 14365]

I hate it but Tom is going to have to work the fucking officials during the game.  you can't be passive. he should have been in the linesman ass all game about his spots. Holgerson was working the officials all fucking game after the 2 personal fouls and the holding on their receiver blew a big gain for them.  guess what they paid him back in spades with key penalties like BS DL holding call, shitty spots, Elijah Rodriguez "hold", horsecollar, etc.  the officials essentially gifted WVU 7 on the horsecollar. it was 3rd and 15 at our 37 and took away  a very possible 7 on the failure to give CJ the 1st down. a 14 point swing on 2 fucking horribly missed calls.

They had 14 penalties but the only one that was questionable was the DL Holding.  they had a bunch of false starts, obvious PI on LJH, etc.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

I hate it but Tom is going to have to work the fucking officials during the game.  you can't be passive. he should have been in the linesman ass all game about his spots. Holgerson was working the officials all fucking game after the 2 personal fouls and the holding on their receiver blew a big gain for them.  guess what they paid him back in spades with key penalties like BS DL holding call, shitty spots, Elijah Rodriguez "hold", horsecollar, etc.  the officials essentially gifted WVU 7 on the horsecollar. it was 3rd and 15 at our 37 and took away  a very possible 7 on the failure to give CJ the 1st down. a 14 point swing on 2 fucking horribly missed calls.

They had 14 penalties but the only one that was questionable was the DL Holding.  they had a bunch of false starts, obvious PI on LJH, etc.

Dare I say Mack was pretty darn good about working the Refs during games.   Yes, there have been several times  in the last four games Tom should of been in the side judges ear the entire game.   Take the K State game where those turds didn’t get one penalty callled against them.   That’s virtually impossible now a days with the speed of the game.     Last night he should of been bitching up a storm on some of those spots and that bulllshit call on Sam.  In fact he should of sent out a giant fuck you in the press conference and called the BIG 12 out on that and risked the fine or whatever for criticizing the Refs.   We’d set up a Go Fund me to pay that shit on here.   But these fuckers called Refs and their supervisors need to be called out including the twats in the replay booth.  

[Zavala 1384]

12 hours ago, dcar00 said:

I hate it but Tom is going to have to work the fucking officials during the game.  you can't be passive. he should have been in the linesman ass all game about his spots. Holgerson was working the officials all fucking game after the 2 personal fouls and the holding on their receiver blew a big gain for them.  guess what they paid him back in spades with key penalties like BS DL holding call, shitty spots, Elijah Rodriguez "hold", horsecollar, etc.  the officials essentially gifted WVU 7 on the horsecollar. it was 3rd and 15 at our 37 and took away  a very possible 7 on the failure to give CJ the 1st down. a 14 point swing on 2 fucking horribly missed calls.

They had 14 penalties but the only one that was questionable was the DL Holding.  they had a bunch of false starts, obvious PI on LJH, etc.

Big 12 - where you have to work the officials instead of coach

Fuck this shit tier conference, if you have to "work" to get the officials to call the game evenly, it's obviously rigged. All this bullshit about the rig 12 officials "don't know the rules" is a load of shit.

[BonzoMontreaux 1093]

Can't believe no one has mentioned the WV player walking up to and standing over Heard after Sam hung him out to dry.  That guy wasn't even the defender that hit Heard.  

['stache 21866]

We lost for other reasons, but Baylors OL was holding on pretty much every play this weekend and only got flagged a few times.  It was very obvious on their early run plays designed to the outside.  The OL was consistently holding the defensive end allowing the RB to get around and to the second level.  They kept doing it because the refs kept letting it go.  I can't imagine how often it was happening when less obvious.  Refs usually flag it early to get them to correct, but not this game. 

To their credit, they did correctly reverse a targeting call in which the replay showed the contact was shoulder to shoulder.  It looked like it went to his head in real time but the replay showed shoulder to shoulder.  Of course Matt Rhule went full retard.  I didn't know much about him before but he showed himself to be a whiny piece of shit.  There are plenty of actual bad calls to get upset over, let the correct calls go you idiot.

[dcar00 14365]

30 minutes ago, 'stache said:

We lost for other reasons, but Baylors OL was holding on pretty much every play this weekend and only got flagged a few times.  It was very obvious on their early run plays designed to the outside.  The OL was consistently holding the defensive end allowing the RB to get around and to the second level.  They kept doing it because the refs kept letting it go.  I can't imagine how often it was happening when less obvious.  Refs usually flag it early to get them to correct, but not this game. 

To their credit, they did correctly reverse a targeting call in which the replay showed the contact was shoulder to shoulder.  It looked like it went to his head in real time but the replay showed shoulder to shoulder.  Of course Matt Rhule went full retard.  I didn't know much about him before but he showed himself to be a whiny piece of shit.  There are plenty of actual bad calls to get upset over, let the correct calls go you idiot.

he's working the officials for the next call.  I'd do the same.  everyone says, well what are you telling your players by arguing with the refs?   I'd say you need to tell your players that it is only the coaches job to talk to the refs and that they need to play like the call is correct and move on.  These calls are game changers.   

we lost for other reasons at OSU but Kris Boyd was absolutely mugged by the OSU WR on the TD run by cornelius.  if that is called we likely win the game.  

WVU held our DE on the 2 point conversion also.  we got screwed by officials not knowing the rule book about horsecollar in the pocket against WVU.

The Tech OU game was even worse than our game against WVU.

The officiating in this league is on the level of high school.

[taybo20 2878]

56 minutes ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

Can't believe no one has mentioned the WV player walking up to and standing over Heard after Sam hung him out to dry.  That guy wasn't even the defender that hit Heard.  

Yeah that was fucked. It got me ready to jump out of the stands haha

[immamac 43046]

On 11/3/2018 at 9:28 PM, hornian said:

I’ll be damned, I didn’t know that. 

Looked up the rule:

All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, the area, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down. This does not apply to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box.

Wow, I knew that call was suspect, but that should be a minimum 1 game suspension for the head judge. It's his job to know the rulebook.

[dcar00 14365]

13 minutes ago, immamac said:

Wow, I knew that call was suspect, but that should be a minimum 1 game suspension for the head judge. It's his job to know the rulebook.

where is ESPN this call when they ran a headline link about the WVU guy getting flagged for horns down.  This is WAY more egregious.  Herman is right about asking questions and this should be the first one on the list.  he also needs a guy on the sideline who is actively looking for official screw ups and knows the rulebook.  hire an ex official.

[immamac 43046]

IDK, the refs ruined the game flow many many times on saturday with a bunch of stuff that should have just been no-call. It was both sides of the ball and it really is just terrible to see a game get tarnished by some of these ridiculous things that happen.

[BabaYaga 15320]

2 hours ago, Zavala said:

Fuck this shit tier conference, if you have to "work" to get the officials to call the game evenly, it's obviously rigged. All this bullshit about the rig 12 officials "don't know the rules" is a load of shit.

Fucking hate this conference.  Burn it down.  Send all this asshole directional schools back into the wind and let them land where they can.  Fuck 'em.  

[Vic Mackey 47151]

It is one thing to get a call wrong in terms of a judgement call. That is going to happen in any sport. But it's another to not even know the rule book. That deserves a reprimand but we all know it won't. Now I will admit I did not not know the horse collar tackle was legal inside the pocket but I am not getting paid to ref games on that level. That shit can not happen. They were about to punt but after that call, they went down and scored 7. Then the reversal of Sam's 4th down conversion. Where really, we picked it up on 3rd anyways but they didn't want to review it. We all knew once they went to review that, they were going to find any reason to overturn it. Inevitable. Also, if they reviewed that, why didn't they review the terrible spot where Sam looked to have ran for the 1st? Towards the end of the game. We had to settle for 3.

Then the game after ours with Tech/OU was even worse. These refs are fucking bad. 

[Zavala 1384]

2 hours ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

Can't believe no one has mentioned the WV player walking up to and standing over Heard after Sam hung him out to dry.  That guy wasn't even the defender that hit Heard.  

Also, if we made that hit, it would be targeting and throw the guy out of the game.

[Zavala 1384]

5 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

It is one thing to get a call wrong in terms of a judgement call. That is going to happen in any sport. But it's another to not even know the rule book. That deserves a reprimand but we all know it won't. Now I will admit I did not not know the horse collar tackle was legal inside the pocket but I am not getting paid to ref games on that level. That shit can not happen. They were about to punt but after that call, they went down and scored 7. Then the reversal of Sam's 4th down conversion. Where really, we picked it up on 3rd anyways but they didn't want to review it. We all knew once they went to review that, they were going to find any reason to overturn it. Inevitable. Also, if they reviewed that, why didn't they review the terrible spot where Sam looked to have ran for the 1st? Towards the end of the game. We had to settle for 3.

Then the game after ours with Tech/OU was even worse. These refs are fucking bad. 

The best part was they measured, then gave the first down, then decided they had to review. AFTER waiting for Shane to scramble out there. Load of shit.

Plus there was no conclusive angles showing same was "down by helmet coming off" before the line to gain. That's what took them 12 mins to think up how those gutless fuckheads were going to word it to not appear to be obviously fucking us over.

[Zavala 1384]

2 hours ago, BonzoMontreaux said:

Can't believe no one has mentioned the WV player walking up to and standing over Heard after Sam hung him out to dry.  That guy wasn't even the defender that hit Heard.  

3rd down, they weren't going to give Texas extra downs on obvious penelties

 

[Dennis Taylor 18871]

from the 2017 WVU game...pretty unbelievable incompetence/bias(?)...2 if not 3 yards beyond where the ball was caught 

 http://gifs.com/gif/kZYJ2E

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Dennis Taylor

[Vic Mackey 47151]

33 minutes ago, Zavala said:

The best part was they measured, then gave the first down, then decided they had to review. AFTER waiting for Shane to scramble out there. Load of shit.

Plus there was no conclusive angles showing same was "down by helmet coming off" before the line to gain. That's what took them 12 mins to think up how those gutless fuckheads were going to word it to not appear to be obviously fucking us over.

Yeah once they went to review that, I knew we were done. Might as well get the defense ready to go because they were going to overturn that. I knew these refs were going to make the game about them when that light shove got a WVU player ejected. Call him for a personal foul and move on.

[Dennis Taylor 18871]

On 11/3/2018 at 9:28 PM, hornian said:

I’ll be damned, I didn’t know that. 

Looked up the rule:

All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, the area, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down. This does not apply to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box.

I was driving when this happened and i knew about the exception for QBs, but Craig Way did not mention it on the broadcast. Did the tv crew mention it? 

[NorthLoop 14248]

1 minute ago, Dennis Taylor said:

I was driving when this happened and i knew about the exception for QBs, but Craig Way did not mention it on the broadcast. Did the tv crew mention it? 

Yeah Klatt was all over it

[totallynotabuttpirate 5405]

Just now, Dennis Taylor said:

I was driving when this happened and i knew about the exception for QBs, but Craig Way did not mention it on the broadcast. Did the tv crew mention it? 

Yes, Klatt said "The officials called a penalty that doesn't exist"

[Vic Mackey 47151]

2 minutes ago, Dennis Taylor said:

I was driving when this happened and i knew about the exception for QBs, but Craig Way did not mention it on the broadcast. Did the tv crew mention it? 

Absolutely they did. I then lost my shit. I did not know this rule but how the fuck did the refs not know this? Unreal.

[Dennis Taylor 18871]

thanks

[Zavala 1384]

He also disagreed with the bullshit Kris Boyd PI on another critical 3rd down.

He jumped in front and batted the ball away, that is a routine good coverage play you see all the time. They said great coverage, then saw the late flag - oh but maybe a flag. Then they replayed it and all Klatt could say was "I don't know" 

Just happened to be two weeks in a row a ton of big plays turn out to be officiated in our opponents favor. Aside from making it a horrible 4 hour snooze fest of a game, breaking to review EVERY ONE OF THE HUNDRED FLAGS THROWN in a huddle, it's just pathetic to watch.

[Jacob McCandles 202]

Offensive holding is in the rule book; it probably can be called on almost every play; there is a degree of subjectivity to the calls. Defensive pass interference is in the rule book; it probably can be called on a number of pass plays where the coverage is tight; there is a degree of subjectivity to the calls. Hell, the b.s. defensive holding on DL who allegedly are trying to prevent the OL from reaching the LBs is in the rule book; it definitely can be called a lot more than it is; there is a huge degree of subjectivity to the calls. 

Calls of these ^^^^ types are going to be made and are going to impact the game. There is nothing Texas or any other team can do about them. If you don't want calls of these types to impact the game, out play your opponent to where the calls don't matter.

But to call a penalty that does not exist is absurd. The NFL recently fired an official who missed a blatant false start. Whichever official made the call and the head official who did not respond with "hey, asshole, that is not in the rule book" but instead marched off the penalty, both need to be cut loose today.

While that call alone did not cost Texas the game (i.e. Texas had ample opportunity to bounce back from the shitty call), the players, coaches, and fans in the B12 deserve better than to have officials on the field who do not know the fucking rules. 

[TXSooner518 2438]

The horsecaller exception didn't apply, because Grier was no longer a ball carrier. They called roughing the passer, and the "color" they added was that the horse collar bring down after he threw was why they called it. It was sloppily explained. But the exception you list above has to do with there's no such call as horsecollar on a sack, it doesn't mean it can't be related to roughing, since the QB was no longer a "ball carrier."

[Dennis Taylor 18871]

klatt on officiating...at the 5:30 or so mark if didn't embed correctly...summarized with "the worst officiated game I've broadcast in my career. should probably get reprimanded from the big 12 conference"

 

 

[Tex Pete 20484]

9 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

The horsecaller exception didn't apply, because Grier was no longer a ball carrier. They called roughing the passer, and the "color" they added was that the horse collar bring down after he threw was why they called it. It was sloppily explained. But the exception you list above has to do with there's no such call as horsecollar on a sack, it doesn't mean it can't be related to roughing, since the QB was no longer a "ball carrier."

I am pretty sure you’re wrong. 

[dcar00 14365]

5 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

The horsecaller exception didn't apply, because Grier was no longer a ball carrier. They called roughing the passer, and the "color" they added was that the horse collar bring down after he threw was why they called it. It was sloppily explained. But the exception you list above has to do with there's no such call as horsecollar on a sack, it doesn't mean it can't be related to roughing, since the QB was no longer a "ball carrier."

its only roughing if he was egregiously late which he wasn't and from the game play by play.

3rd & 15 at TEX 37

(0:15 - 1st) Grier, Will pass incomplete to Simms, Marcus, PENALTY TEXAS horse collar tackle (Roach, Malcolm) 15 yards to the TEXAS22, NO PLAY, 1ST DOWN WESTVIR.

[Jacob McCandles 202]

this is how it was listed in the play by play. Not as roughing the passer; as a horse collar.

3rd & 15 at TEX 37

(0:15 - 1st) Grier, Will pass incomplete to Simms, Marcus, PENALTY TEXAS horse collar tackle (Roach, Malcolm) 15 yards to the TEXAS22, NO PLAY, 1ST DOWN WESTVIR.

[TXSooner518 2438]

5 minutes ago, Tex Pete said:

I am pretty sure you’re wrong. 

On which part?  

1) The penalty called was "roughing the passer".  He made the personal foul gesture, then the roughing the passer gesture. He then said horsecollar.

2) The rule quoted above clearly describes that it doesn't apply to a ballcarrier in the pocket.

3) Grier was not a ball carrier at the time of the penalty.

Right?

EDIT to add: OK, definitely I am wrong on part 1.  Video is 

 around the 44:00 mark.

 

That said, Grier is not a ball carrier, and the rule says the exception is for ball carriers in the pocket. Clearly they shouldn't have called it if Grier still had the ball.

Edited November 5, 2018 by TXSooner518

[Dennis Taylor 18871]

1 minute ago, TXSooner518 said:

On which part?  

1) The penalty called was "roughing the passer".  He made the personal foul gesture, then the roughing the passer gesture. He then said horsecollar.

2) The rule quoted above clearly describes that it doesn't apply to a ballcarrier in the pocket.

3) Grier was not a ball carrier at the time of the penalty.

Right?

wrong:

3rd and 15 at UT37

Grier, Will middle pass incomplete to Simms, Marcus, PENALTY UT PFHC (Malcolm Roach) 15 yards to the UT22, 1ST DOWN WVU, NO PLAY

[Lerka Lerka 1094]

OU Sucks?  Right?  Got damn right.

[dcar00 14365]

Just now, TXSooner518 said:

On which part?  

1) The penalty called was "roughing the passer".  He made the personal foul gesture, then the roughing the passer gesture. He then said horsecollar.

2) The rule quoted above clearly describes that it doesn't apply to a ballcarrier in the pocket.

3) Grier was not a ball carrier at the time of the penalty.

Right?

you are wrong. potential passer as well. he wasn't late.  good news is you might have a career as a Big 12 Associate Director.

They called it because he went down weirdly and they forgot the rule about being in the pocket.  so did our stupid coaches as well.  they fucked up. its OK, just admit it Big 12.

[Jacob McCandles 202]

I suspect that TX Sooner's argument is based on the fact that the official said "Personal foul. Defense No. 32. Horse collar tackle after the pass."

Regardless, the official was incompetent in understanding the rule or incompetent in explaining the call.

[TXSooner518 2438]

Once he has passed, I don't think he is a "potential passer."  I think the exception would mean you can tackle the QB by the collar when he has the ball. Interesting question though.

[Valmy77 13273]

20 hours ago, QuesoEspecial said:

I am a glutton for punishment so went back and took a look at our first down at the 4 yard line at the beginning of the 2nd half. First off Collin Johnson got it on 3rd down and the announcers called it as such on the field. Next Sam missed the conversion according to an absurd multi-minute review despite the call on the field (due to helmet fly off and him being down at the precise second which is counter to all football watched ever) and from rational viewers including announcers in real time as first down. This conference has refs that insist upon the game and it sucks...ridiculous!

I can forgive them for fucking up that call. But I cannot forgive taking forever to do it. And measuring and THEN reviewing? What kind of garbage is that? If you are going to measure, do it after you have marked the ball to your satisfaction.

And if you are going to waste my time measuring and reviewing and standing around for 20 minutes don't screw it up anyway. Jesus.

[dcar00 14365]

20 minutes ago, TXSooner518 said:

Once he has passed, I don't think he is a "potential passer."  I think the exception would mean you can tackle the QB by the collar when he has the ball. Interesting question though.

if there is a hit(not horsecollar) after the ball leaves the hand the official has to make a determination if it was egregiously late.  his horsecollar wasn't egregiously late therefore he is still a potential passer.  

I get what you are saying but in my opinion they completely screwed the call. it should not have been flagged or they need to change the rule to say anytime after the ball has left the hand of the QB AND it should be reviewable.  game changer.  look guys are going to get hurt.  change the rule that says no horsecollar anywhere at anytime.  

Sam got horsecollared last year running in the open field on the sideline late and no call. can't remember the game but these officials are high school level so I expect it.

It sucks we aren't good enough to overcome these kinds of calls but maybe we will get there.

[TXSooner518 2438]

I think the hit was late, and was "overly impactful" if that makes sense. Like if you get to the QB right as he throws it won't get flagged but if you do that, then pick him up and drive him through the ground it will. I think they should have just said "roughing the passer" or "unnecessary roughness" depending on how horsecollar applies when you aren't a ball carrier.  If I'm a DB, and I want a WR out of the way and he has his back to me, can I grab him by the collar and pull him down?