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Make no mistake - Todd Orlando Fucking Sucks

Fat Bastard

By Fat Bastard
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dcar00

dcar00 14631

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Posted

I just hope Herman isn't Mack Brown with his coordinators.  he gave Orlando a 600K fucking raise last year and then rolls out this shitshow.  Herman needs to have a list of 3 guys he can go get if Orlando can't fix this shit next year.  maybe the ISU DC would like a raise.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 26482

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Posted
6 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

In 2008 our DL rotation was Brian Orakpo, Sergio Kindle, Lamarr Houston, Roy Miller, Henry Melton, Sam Acho, and Kheeston Randall.

In 2005 our DL rotation was Tim Crowder, Brian Robison, Rod Wright, Frank Okam, Larry Dibbles, Brian Orakpo and Roy Miller.

In 2000 our DL rotation was Casey Hampton, Shaun Rogers, Marcus Tubbs, Corey Redding, Kalen Thornton, plus a couple of other guys I can’t remember.

We had a full starting DL plus a few backups who were NFL players when we were good.   We now have Charles Omenihu as a mid to late round draft prospect, and other bodies.

Yeah. I'm not saying that Poona's bad. He's not even mediocre. He's playing on Sundays. The problem is that he barely cracks the two-deep on those teams.

The problem with our LB play is journeymen (at best) starting linebackers. We knew this going into the season, too.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 26482

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Posted
1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

I just hope Herman isn't Mack Brown with his coordinators.  he gave Orlando a 600K fucking raise last year and then rolls out this shitshow.  Herman needs to have a list of 3 guys he can go get if Orlando can't fix this shit next year.  maybe the ISU DC would like a raise.

Herman's not Mack Brown. He's John Mackovic.

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taybo20

taybo20 2976

Posted
Posted
Just now, Rimbo said:

Why, who we got coming in at LB and DL?

We would have to see pretty stellar leaps in ability and football iq from out players. The way I see it, is that the coaching part would make this defense better, regardless of the talent discussion. But it has to be coached hard. It feels like these guys think they can push aside responsibility for aggressive instinct, but their base football iq is flawed and therefore they make bad decisions. I just can’t believe that most of these guys are idiots.

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MOODY

MOODY 126

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Yeah. I'm not saying that Poona's bad. He's not even mediocre. He's playing on Sundays. The problem is that he barely cracks the two-deep on those teams.

The problem with our LB play is journeymen (at best) starting linebackers. We knew this going into the season, too.

Our linebackers have been sub par except for Malik but even he was hit or miss sometimes.

Linebackers need heavy assed d lineman to eat up blocks to do their best dirty work and slobber knock the shit out of off balanced running backs and to apply a blitz every now and again.  That does not happen with this team, opposition o linemen are just blowing our linebackers up, along with tight ends and running backs, our LB's get blocked on damn near every blitz they do.

Are they any good LB's on our team?  Yes I think so but you have to protect them from getting blocked.  Don't send them on useless blitzes because none of our down lineman, except for Nelson, need more than one blocker.  Hager didn't even need a blocker sometimes as he just ran out of the play. (that had to be scheme and a call from the sideline as no way he could be that bad).

My choice, go to four down lineman,  three linebackers and stop the fucking run from gashing us.  That will give our corners and safety some mental calm on one part of the game.  If we get beat by a passing team who gives a shit, we have been getting toasted with our current lineup and scheme so what's to lose?

Hell, maybe we could get a pass rush also.

 

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torre

torre 1291

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Posted
18 hours ago, Jack Wilson said:

There is no one simple answer, but to me the most glaring problem is our miserable LB play. I re-watched several key plays and in each the LB's were totally out of place/shooting the wrong gap/ineffective. Most of the posters in this thread have ragged on either the 3-DL scheme or the quality of the DL personnel (or both), but to me the fault lies almost 100% with the LB's.

This !

Defense definitely not playing together.   Perhaps Brandon Jones sets the D and if he is not there...   

 

Texas defensive end Charles Omenihu did not buy that West Virginia would try to pass out of that formation. Nelson said he heard Omenihu bark that Grier would keep the football, which a frustrated Omenihu later confirmed.

“After they called timeout on the (previous play), I knew what he was going to do,” Omenihu said. “I was screaming it, I was saying it. I knew exactly what he was going to do it, and he did it. And he walked into the end zone.”

 

https://www.hookem.com/story/weve-just-got-to-make-the-play-conversion-leaves-the-texas-defense-looking-for-answers/

 

 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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Posted
2 hours ago, MOODY said:

My choice, go to four down lineman,  three linebackers and stop the fucking run from gashing us.  That will give our corners and safety some mental calm on one part of the game.  If we get beat by a passing team who gives a shit, we have been getting toasted with our current lineup and scheme so what's to lose?

Hell, maybe we could get a pass rush also.

 

Disagree. The DT talent and depth is even more lacking than that at LB. No numbers to throw at a 4-3. Need to get bigger at DE, smarter at LB, and better run support at nickel.

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MOODY

MOODY 126

Posted
Posted
Just now, Llogg said:

Disagree. The DT talent and depth is even more lacking than that at LB. No numbers to throw at a 4-3. Need to get bigger at DE, smarter at LB, and better run support at nickel.

I am okay with that but that is going to take some time.  Meanwhile this defense is going to get gashed next year, maybe even during Tech.

No matter, I am not a big booster or coach so doesn't mean shit what I think.  Just glad I am alive to watch Texas play, make some stupid comments and get neg voted for not toeing the dotted line.  This team is average at best and it is surprising that the offense has now passed the defense on efficiency to actually win the game.

 

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taybo20

taybo20 2976

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Posted
23 minutes ago, MOODY said:

I am okay with that but that is going to take some time.  Meanwhile this defense is going to get gashed next year, maybe even during Tech.

No matter, I am not a big booster or coach so doesn't mean shit what I think.  Just glad I am alive to watch Texas play, make some stupid comments and get neg voted for not toeing the dotted line.  This team is average at best and it is surprising that the offense has now passed the defense on efficiency to actually win the game.

 

A 4-3 isn't what we need in the Big 12. It doesn't work unless you are still using hybrid players which would then make it more like a 4-2-5. You're talking about adding slower players on the field in space against the spread, and that isn't a real good recipe for success. Just think about 10 personnel, matched up against a 4-3. Sure you get the offense to stay away from the run, because it becomes much easier to throw the ball. We already have an issue with slow players, why put more on the field? The other issue, is if we wanted to run a 4-2-5, we need ELITE, DL talent. Like Clemson elite. Each of the front 4 would need to be able to handle double teams, be pass rushers, and run stoppers by themselves. At that point you have 7 players behind you that you can get very creative and aggressive with.  As far as I know, we don't have any of that right now. Maybe with a couple years for Coburn and Ojomo they can be pretty good. But our guys struggle just filling gaps and holding ground right now. 

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 6179

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22 minutes ago, Cairn Horn88 said:

The last several years, our defense carried this team, while we were looking for some offense.  This year, we find an offense that can put points on the board, and the defense just disappears.  We gotta have both on the same page if we are going to make more progress with this program.

Yep.  Reminds me of the 90's.  We had a bad-ass D in the early 90' but no offense.  Mackovic arrives, fixes the offense, and the D goes to shit.

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runthebone

runthebone 8182

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Yep.  Reminds me of the 90's.  We had a bad-ass D in the early 90' but no offense.  Mackovic arrives, fixes the offense, and the D goes to shit.

This is true.  In the early '90s, I wanted to be on defense when we were behind because a defensive TD seemed more likely than an offensive one. 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49456

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Posted (edited)

Orlando needs to simplify this Defense for Tech.  Too many mistakes from Players not knowing what their responsibilities are in a complex defense.

 

Scipio Tex crushed Texas Defense in write-up...

Here's part of it:

"Once you factor in WVU's efficiency and our pathetic display of tackling, angles and overall coordination, in my opinion, this was one of the most futile defensive efforts I've ever seen at Texas. And I've seen a lot. Here, I typically break down positions. There's no value in that when the entire defense is broken."

"might be the worst performance I've ever seen from a Longhorn linebacker. "

"From a coaching perspective, Todd Orlando is embracing sunk cost fallacy at several positions and in his overall scheme, he has several talented and capable guys playing slow and tentatively, it's glaringly apparent that we're sacrificing practice time for practicing "looks" at the expense of fundamental football, and our DC is in the Manny Diaz Year 2 mode of thinking he can play call his way out of bad position coaching, bad scheme, bad football. He can't. And it was written all over the scoreboard. Hell, the scoreboard was deceiving and generous - 42 points doesn't adequately capture how thoroughly WVU's offense dominated Texas. "

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 13094

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, taybo20 said:

We would have to see pretty stellar leaps in ability and football iq from out players. The way I see it, is that the coaching part would make this defense better, regardless of the talent discussion. But it has to be coached hard. It feels like these guys think they can push aside responsibility for aggressive instinct, but their base football iq is flawed and therefore they make bad decisions. I just can’t believe that most of these guys are idiots.

You mean like the giant fucking improvement we saw out of our OL,RB,QB, WR, TE, and K?

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Hamttx

Hamttx 421

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Posted

It’s recruiting guys. Missing out on the Oliver’s of the recruiting world really hurts. Sure, a good coach can hide a player or three. But at the end of the day great players make all coaches look smarter then they really are, unless your name is Belichik. And you have the gift of seeing things in players others always seem to miss.

And regardless of their philosophy (see Chizik) plug in an All American nose tackle, and voila just like that your team is tough to run on. But there are so few of those guys, and everyone wants them. Recruit better, team improves. That is why you pay the head coach $10 million. Not just because he knows how to handle the coin toss.

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Treefidy

Treefidy 1490

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, taybo20 said:

A 4-3 isn't what we need in the Big 12. It doesn't work unless you are still using hybrid players which would then make it more like a 4-2-5. You're talking about adding slower players on the field in space against the spread, and that isn't a real good recipe for success. Just think about 10 personnel, matched up against a 4-3. Sure you get the offense to stay away from the run, because it becomes much easier to throw the ball. We already have an issue with slow players, why put more on the field? The other issue, is if we wanted to run a 4-2-5, we need ELITE, DL talent. Like Clemson elite. Each of the front 4 would need to be able to handle double teams, be pass rushers, and run stoppers by themselves. At that point you have 7 players behind you that you can get very creative and aggressive with.  As far as I know, we don't have any of that right now. Maybe with a couple years for Coburn and Ojomo they can be pretty good. But our guys struggle just filling gaps and holding ground right now. 

All of this.

ISU showed exactly how to stop a high power passing attack in the B12, and they did it very well. 

The job of the 3 linemen is to try and force double teams while clogging gaps.  Your LBs jobs are to plug remaining gaps and/or stay free to cover the edges.   It's trying to disrupt the offensive plan of getting OL out to the 2nd level where they can block the LBs and any other defenders moving into the box.  We are undersized and underweight on the DL and not forcing double teams and holding ground.  This frees up their linemen to execute their jobs and get to the 2nd line of defense, then you get gashed through the holes they open.  

The basis for this defense is to clog up the gaps and force the runs to the outside where you have your secondary in coverage charge in once they read the run bounced out.  It gives you numbers in the passing game and numbers on the edges in the run game if you can successfully take away the middle.   Go watch how ISU completely clogged the gaps with 3DL and 2LBs and the guys come flying in from the sides to make plays on the edge   On pass plays they have guys forcing double teams and it's leaving rushers free to get to Grier.  ISU has guys more well suited for this defense, big ass DL and smaller, quick LBs   

All said, I think this is our base defense (and the best for most of the teams we play) and that's what they are going to practice and recruit for.  We should see an emphasis on more large DEs and nose guys but they will need time in S&C and learning the system.  This is going to be a lot more of a process than any of us had hoped for particularly since it relies heavily on guys we severely lack and who need a couple years to mature once they are here.   

Edited by Treefidy
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CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4570

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Uh, yeah, you are.  There’s some fuckstick named Jimbo, quite literally looting your lil bro school.  

“Todd Orlando’s defense has given up more than 1,000 yards, 80 points and 17 of 32 third-down conversions (53 percent) without a single forced turnover in back-to-back losses.“

A coordinator getting paid  $1.7 million for those results also sounds like literal looting to me.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited by CurlyDumps
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Bellboy

Bellboy 18

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Posted
8 hours ago, Llogg said:

Disagree. The DT talent and depth is even more lacking than that at LB. No numbers to throw at a 4-3. Need to get bigger at DE, smarter at LB, and better run support at nickel.

Need 3 defensive ends that can make it farther than five feet into the offensive backfield on pass plays. 

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XYZ

XYZ 2154

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Posted
7 hours ago, Treefidy said:

All of this.

ISU showed exactly how to stop a high power passing attack in the B12, and they did it very well. 

The job of the 3 linemen is to try and force double teams while clogging gaps.  Your LBs jobs are to plug remaining gaps and/or stay free to cover the edges.   It's trying to disrupt the offensive plan of getting OL out to the 2nd level where they can block the LBs and any other defenders moving into the box.  We are undersized and underweight on the DL and not forcing double teams and holding ground.  This frees up their linemen to execute their jobs and get to the 2nd line of defense, then you get gashed through the holes they open.  

The basis for this defense is to clog up the gaps and force the runs to the outside where you have your secondary in coverage charge in once they read the run bounced out.  It gives you numbers in the passing game and numbers on the edges in the run game if you can successfully take away the middle.   Go watch how ISU completely clogged the gaps with 3DL and 2LBs and the guys come flying in from the sides to make plays on the edge   On pass plays they have guys forcing double teams and it's leaving rushers free to get to Grier.  ISU has guys more well suited for this defense, big ass DL and smaller, quick LBs   

All said, I think this is our base defense (and the best for most of the teams we play) and that's what they are going to practice and recruit for.  We should see an emphasis on more large DEs and nose guys but they will need time in S&C and learning the system.  This is going to be a lot more of a process than any of us had hoped for particularly since it relies heavily on guys we severely lack and who need a couple years to mature once they are here.   

So...two more years?

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taybo20

taybo20 2976

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Posted
16 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Our talent at DL and LB is not what it should be, but that can't explain why we have terrible gap integrity, no containment, and cannot play assignment football on the back end.  That's fundamentals and coaching.  Just terrible.  

Exactly. Playing instinct only, fast football is not acceptable when your instincts are flawed. 

Quote

Asked to summarize Orlando’s system, Texas senior cornerback Kris Boyd said succinctly: “Just run to the ball and hit.”

 

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taybo20

taybo20 2976

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2 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

We are not playing instinct only football.. you can see the players thinking too much. They NEED to play instinct football right now.

what I see is the players getting distracted by offensive game plans that utilize their "instincts" to get them out of position. And I see poor tackling and bad angles 

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SilasCoade

SilasCoade 2622

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4 hours ago, Bellboy said:

Need 3 defensive ends that can make it farther than five feet into the offensive backfield on pass plays. 

Hager gets deep into the backfield regularly, he just overruns the pocket and takes himself out of the play. He'd be fine in a 4-3 scheme. In a 3-4 he needs to be able to collapse the pocket without relying on speed rush to the outside. DEs need to be bigger and stronger.

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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7274

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We have lots of defensive issues to evaluate, but high on my mind after that game is why we can't seem to put our defense in a "absolutely no one gets behind you" situation late in these games.

WVU had what, 30 seconds to get in the endzone?  Just. Prevent. The. Big. Play.  That's it.  Force them to do it in small increments and hope that you stop them or they break down along the way.  Or run out of time.  It's exactly like the 4th q of OU.  Just don't let them get behind you for a quick strike and we're fine.  We've been awful at this all year.

If someone beats us in the fourth by slowly working downfield I would take that at this point just to show we've fixed this issue. 

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HornsofBevo

HornsofBevo 122

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Bill Lumbergh said:

We have lots of defensive issues to evaluate, but high on my mind after that game is why we can't seem to put our defense in a "absolutely no one gets behind you" situation late in these games.

WVU had what, 30 seconds to get in the endzone?  Just. Prevent. The. Big. Play.  That's it.  Force them to do it in small increments and hope that you stop them or they break down along the way.  Or run out of time.  It's exactly like the 4th q of OU.  Just don't let them get behind you for a quick strike and we're fine.  We've been awful at this all year.

If someone beats us in the fourth by slowly working downfield I would take that at this point just to show we've fixed this issue. 

This is exactly what I was thinking during the game. Time was on our side.  The more plays they had to run the more likely it was  they would make a mistake. Why are we letting anyone get behind us? Isn't that the whole point of the bend but don't break defense we were supposedly running during that last drive?

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TexTexTex

TexTexTex 104

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Posted

We did not lose much talent from last year to this year.  Malik is the obvious biggest missing piece followed by Poona and Elliot.  Most DL that are in these scheme wont look good from a stat standpoint.  Even Poona didn't have good stats he just ate up 2 blocks on most plays and every once in awhile would get some pressure.  Honestly, if we had Malik back this year I feel like the defense would be just as good as last year.  Wheeler is just not capable of playing to the level that is demanded in this scheme.

 

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GreenspointTexas

GreenspointTexas 9881

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Posted
5 minutes ago, TexTexTex said:

We did not lose much talent from last year to this year.  Malik is the obvious biggest missing piece followed by Poona and Elliot.  Most DL that are in these scheme wont look good from a stat standpoint.  Even Poona didn't have good stats he just ate up 2 blocks on most plays and every once in awhile would get some pressure.  Honestly, if we had Malik back this year I feel like the defense would be just as good as last year.  Wheeler is just not capable of playing to the level that is demanded in this scheme.

 

Hill and Bonney also say hello

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Bill Lumbergh

Bill Lumbergh 7274

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Posted

I'm still 70% team Orlando, but he needs to show ability to adjust more to what his players can /can't do well.

Greg Davis scored a lot of points with crazy talent on his roster.  Without that talent he was in the bottom quarter of OCs.  We're about to figure out where Orlando is without NFL talent all over. 

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taybo20

taybo20 2976

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, TexTexTex said:

Bonney wasn't good enough to start on the team this year and Hill missed the last 5 games when the D was still playing well....

I think you underestimate Bonney, and what a good 1 tech is in a 3-3-5. Also Hill was a huge piece

Edited by taybo20
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taybo20

taybo20 2976

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Posted
2 minutes ago, TexTexTex said:

Hill was our best corner last year and an absolute stud, but we played fine without him last year.  Bonney is a JAG.  And yes, freeman is much worse than wheeler

Bonney would have been a much better option than Boyce 2 weeks ago. 

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TexTexTex

TexTexTex 104

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Posted

Yea, he is a better backup than Boyce, but I was just trying to figure out what the biggest drop off from last year to this year and just don't think that Bonney is close for the reason.  I think we have to have elite LB play and we are not getting that with Wheeler.


It will be a lot of new guys next year though  The whole DL graduates, both LB, both corners, Locke.  Minimum 8 new starters

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GreenspointTexas

GreenspointTexas 9881

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Posted
1 minute ago, TexTexTex said:

Yea, he is a better backup than Boyce, but I was just trying to figure out what the biggest drop off from last year to this year and just don't think that Bonney is close for the reason.  I think we have to have elite LB play and we are not getting that with Wheeler.


It will be a lot of new guys next year though  The whole DL graduates, both LB, both corners, Locke.  Minimum 8 new starters

Well we cant get much worse on D right now so....

 

profit?

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