Kicking the FG Instead of Going For it on 4th

[bad_teammate 13205]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

Kicking field goals from the 1 yard line because you're worried some dogshit BYU team is going to score 15 unanswered on us at home after they've been getting their ass-kicked all game is the opposite of what we need.

Bingo.

BYU had already given up. The game was over. Basically the entire 2nd half was live-fire practice. I have no fucking clue what some of these people were watching.

[Gil Bang 25960]

15 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

That's how I see it as well. The emotional aspect of the game should neither be discounted nor overstated. In this situation, it's actually huge. A team that has had little success suddenly is reminded they still have a chance. 

Sure, the numbers say the chance was there before the non-FG, but the emotion was not. Kill their will to win.

I'm not saying get rid of Sark. He's done some great things. My Herman PTSD where every game was a shit fight may be influencing my horror. 

I hope Sark learns.

Yeah.  Steve fucking Sarkisian needs to learn football philosophy from you. 

[dcar00 14210]

44 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

BYU had shown close to zero ability to move the ball all game, much less go 98 yards. 
 

Game context matters. If it was 31-16 instead of 21-6 then yes your probably handle that differently.

Game context didn't matter last week.  we are up 21-7 right after Houston drove down the field for a TD.  It is getting close to halftime where you aren't getting the ball after half.  He runs a stupid shit fake and Houston ends up almost beating us.  kick the FG, stop the illusion that is momentum(thanks Tom Herman), and at least get a score before half.

Sark isn't thinking about game context.  He's an OC.  he always thinks he can call the winning play and hates kicking FG's.

You kick the FG and go up 3 scores in the 4th.  He's 7-1 and beat Bama but it is shit like that that cause you to lose games you shouldn't.

[Basil 754]

Turtle Tom didn’t have the killer instinct to put teams away; All Gas No Breaks is too aggressive and needs to learn to play situational football. Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch. I guess there’s a sweet spot somewhere in there that the Surly Armchair Brigade can spot but continues to elude actual coaches.

[Michael Knight 12981]

If we go for it and don't make it then Surly knows Sark is stupid and we should have kicked the fg, if we kick the fg and don't go for it Sark is a pussy.

[6th Street 6411]

Sark has a lot of Charlie Strong like situational awareness 

[dcar00 14210]

3 minutes ago, Basil said:

Turtle Tom didn’t have the killer instinct to put teams away; All Gas No Breaks is too aggressive and needs to learn to play situational football. Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch. I guess there’s a sweet spot somewhere in there that the Surly Armchair Brigade can spot but continues to elude actual coaches.

The problem is his OL and his OL coach are ass.  they get pushed around constantly.  therefore you need to go up 3 scores in the 4th so you don't need to worry about your ass OL anymore.

Edited October 29, 2023 by dcar00

[Hagbard Celine 10867]

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

If we go for it and don't make it then Surly knows Sark is stupid and we should have kicked the fg, if we kick the fg and don't go for it Sark is a pussy.

absolutely not

the majority of the surly and 100% of the smart surl say "sark learned his lesson after last week"

[Michael Knight 12981]

1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

absolutely not

the majority of the surly and 100% of the smart surl say "sark learned his lesson after last week"

whats that like 2 posters who don't even read the gameday threads?

[Hagbard Celine 10867]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

The problem is his OL and his OL coach is ass.  they get pushed around constantly.  therefore you need to go up 3 scores in the 4th so you don't need to worry about your ass OL anymore.

sark passed on 3 kicks that would have put him up 24 points with 13:10 remaining

[Michael Knight 12981]

1 minute ago, Hagbard Celine said:

sark passed on 3 kicks that would have put him up 24 points with 13:10 remaining

1 of those times BYU went 3 and out and had to kick from their own endzone, thats a fucking success all the way. The other time we turned them over anyways. At no point did passing on those 3 kicks hurt us

[Michael Knight 12981]

19 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

The problem is his OL and his OL coach are ass.  they get pushed around constantly.  therefore you need to go up 3 scores in the 4th so you don't need to worry about your ass OL anymore.

ok guy, you probably can't even name the OL coach without looking it up

[crash_davis 23113]

Sark was using this a live red zone practice. BYU had absolutely no chance of winning this game. He, the coaches, and the players knew this. I have no problem going for TDs. I do have a problem that we suck at in the red zone.

[dcar00 14210]

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

ok guy, you probably can't even name the OL coach without looking it up

you mean kickass OL coach and Co-OC Kyle Flood.

[troph 24810]

We are one of the worst red zone teams in CFB, more than half of that is due to going for it on 4th down instead of taking the points. Another 25% is shitty play calling. Red zone is mostly on sark. It’s actually the only real fault this year. It really doesn’t take anything to fix it, stop being cute. That’s it.

[WinningIsHard 4033]

2 hours ago, dcar00 said:

Game context didn't matter last week.  we are up 21-7 right after Houston drove down the field for a TD.  It is getting close to halftime where you aren't getting the ball after half.  He runs a stupid shit fake and Houston ends up almost beating us.  kick the FG, stop the illusion that is momentum(thanks Tom Herman), and at least get a score before half.

Sark isn't thinking about game context.  He's an OC.  he always thinks he can call the winning play and hates kicking FG's.

You kick the FG and go up 3 scores in the 4th.  He's 7-1 and beat Bama but it is shit like that that cause you to lose games you shouldn't.

Which ones? We are 7-1, you live in the past. Tell me which games we have lost this year because sark didn’t take the points? Lol 

[RomaVicta 29909]

3 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

Yeah.  Steve fucking Sarkisian needs to learn football philosophy from you. 

I'm pro-Sark. I don't know shit about modern football. I do understand math, however. He's not the only coach doing this shit. 

[Fudge Nuggets 19194]

I haven't read a single god damn post in this thread and don't intend to.  Five fucking pages?

Are you fucking kidding me?

[TexasMan 10891]

6 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I haven't read a single god damn post in this thread and don't intend to.  Five fucking pages?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Started in the Tom Herman era

[markstanco 12577]

I'm pro-Sark. I don't know shit about modern football. I do understand math, however. He's not the only coach doing this shit. 

Same. He is doing what he does, and so far it is working.

This board bitched about GDGD and conservative play calling and then they bitch about aggressive play calling.

Who is the best passive aggressive offensive defense coordinator out there to hire?

[GringoSalado 1651]

Not sold on Sark at all but the issue here is not the play calling. We can't score 1st and goal from the 5 against BYU? The fuck?

Not like we haven't tried a bunch of different Red Zone shit (we didn't see any DTs as H-backs this time for example), just that nothing has worked. I appreciate Sark being a bit stubborn here because I also wonder why the fuck our offense sucks this badly in the Red Zone (and generally). 

Shorter: nothing has worked but at least we have tried different shit. 

[DalTxHornFan 3102]

W is a W.

[shakahorn 1645]

19 minutes ago, GringoSalado said:

Not sold on Sark at all but the issue here is not the play calling. We can't score 1st and goal from the 5 against BYU? The fuck?

Not like we haven't tried a bunch of different Red Zone shit (we didn't see any DTs as H-backs this time for example), just that nothing has worked. I appreciate Sark being a bit stubborn here because I also wonder why the fuck our offense sucks this badly in the Red Zone (and generally). 

Shorter: nothing has worked but at least we have tried different shit. 

Pretty sure we had a DT in there on the handoff to brooks on 4th and 1 after the td got overruled.  DT ran right past the penetration and mauled some 2nd level guy.

[MonkeyDoughnut 10250]

I had a bigger problem with the play call(s) than going for it, but yeah take the points the first time

[DigglerontheHoof 21202]

6 hours ago, GringoSalado said:

Not sold on Sark at all but the issue here is not the play calling. We can't score 1st and goal from the 5 against BYU? The fuck?

Not like we haven't tried a bunch of different Red Zone shit (we didn't see any DTs as H-backs this time for example), just that nothing has worked. I appreciate Sark being a bit stubborn here because I also wonder why the fuck our offense sucks this badly in the Red Zone (and generally). 

Shorter: nothing has worked but at least we have tried different shit. 

It's 100% on the IOL.  They just aren't that good.   Hell, at this point, I'd call them the biggest weakness on the team. 

[bad_teammate 13205]

9 hours ago, troph said:

We are one of the worst red zone teams in CFB, more than half of that is due to going for it on 4th down instead of taking the points. Another 25% is shitty play calling. Red zone is mostly on sark. It’s actually the only real fault this year. It really doesn’t take anything to fix it, stop being cute. That’s it.

Yes, we are bad at it. That's the point.

We were up 15 and the football board was shitting its intestines out because Sark risked going up 18 for going up 22 and getting more "let's get this shit right" snaps. Why? Because those people were convinced that BYU was a legitimate threat to score 15 points unanswered. Those people needed to pull their heads out of their asses.

"WELL IF WE WERE PLAYING WASHINGTON..."
We weren't.

"WELL IF THIS WAS THE ALABAMA GAME..."
It wasn't.

It was a BYU team that had given up before halftime. That had probably given up before the game even started. BYU was not going to score two touchdowns with an XP and a 2pt conversion unanswered. That was not happening. You could go ask the giant Polynesian head coach at BYU if that was happening and he'd tell you it wasn't.

BYU wins this year by getting a lot of turnovers. So you limit turnover-producing risks and just beat them up, which is exactly what we were doing. And, in the bargain, we get to practice our goalline stuff. Which we need to do because we're not good at it, and which we could do in those moments because it was low/zero-risk.

[dcar00 14210]

18 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Yes, we are bad at it. That's the point.

We were up 15 and the football board was shitting its intestines out because Sark risked going up 18 for going up 22 and getting more "let's get this shit right" snaps. Why? Because those people were convinced that BYU was a legitimate threat to score 15 points unanswered. Those people needed to pull their heads out of their asses.

"WELL IF WE WERE PLAYING WASHINGTON..."
We weren't.

"WELL IF THIS WAS THE ALABAMA GAME..."
It wasn't.

It was a BYU team that had given up before halftime. That had probably given up before the game even started. BYU was not going to score two touchdowns with an XP and a 2pt conversion unanswered. That was not happening. You could go ask the giant Polynesian head coach at BYU if that was happening and he'd tell you it wasn't.

BYU wins this year by getting a lot of turnovers. So you limit turnover-producing risks and just beat them up, which is exactly what we were doing. And, in the bargain, we get to practice our goalline stuff. Which we need to do because we're not good at it, and which we could do in those moments because it was low/zero-risk.

the 4th down stops were turnovers.  I member when Houston was awful too.  People were convinced an awful Houston team was gonna score 21 points unanswered, those people need to pull their heads out of there asses...oh wait.

 

[dcar00 14210]

8 hours ago, shakahorn said:

Pretty sure we had a DT in there on the handoff to brooks on 4th and 1 after the td got overruled.  DT ran right past the penetration and mauled some 2nd level guy.

he probably did his job but the people that allowed the penetration didn't do theirs.  his job is to maul a 2nd level guy not decide if he should clean up someone else's mess.

[GreenspointTexas 9604]

If our red zone % holds the rest of the season, it will go down as the worst red zone offense in  school history

[Js1 85353]

4 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

If our red zone % holds the rest of the season, it will go down as the worst red zone offense in  school history

If we finish the regular season 10-2 or 11-1, I literally will not give a single gigantic fuck. Record > some stat you care so deeply about 

[Jkwellborn 6704]

If we finish the regular season 10-2 or 11-1, I literally will not give a single gigantic fuck. Record > some stat you care so deeply about 

That stat is the difference between winning and losing right now.

he probably did his job but the people that allowed the penetration didn't do theirs.  his job is to maul a 2nd level guy not decide if he should clean up someone else's mess.

At this point, I’d just tell him to destroy the first free person he sees on his way to the second level.

[GreenspointTexas 9604]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

If we finish the regular season 10-2 or 11-1, I literally will not give a single gigantic fuck. Record > some stat you care so deeply about 

Yeah uh, if that stat holds, we are dropping at least 2 more games. 

[Ignatius 4017]

13 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

whats that like 2 posters who don't even read the gameday threads?

Why would anyone venture within 100 miles of a gameday thread?

[Hagbard Celine 10867]

slept on it

no change in view

9 points on 3 kicks with 13:10 left in the game sees us up 24, score 30-6

= guaranteed chance to run 1st team series with arch in goldilocks zone - too much time left to just hand the ball off - not enough time left for *anyone* to score 24

practicing redzone / inside-the-5 downs are tertiary to getting AM a real series

[OU Sucks 8833]

12 hours ago, markstanco said:

Same. He is doing what he does, and so far it is working.

This board bitched about GDGD and conservative play calling and then they bitch about aggressive play calling.

Who is the best passive aggressive offensive defense coordinator out there to hire?

3 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

If our red zone % holds the rest of the season, it will go down as the worst red zone offense in  school history

I am fine with going it on fourth down, as long as the call is good...which most are not.  Sark tends to think we can just line up all our players in some goal line formation and bully our way into the end zone, but we can't.  Not spreading out the opposing defense or even hinting that a pass might be an option doesn't help.

Edited October 29, 2023 by OU Sucks

[Jkwellborn 6704]

slept on it
no change in view
9 points on 3 kicks with 13:10 left in the game sees us up 24, score 30-6
= guaranteed chance to run 1st team series with arch in goldilocks zone - too much time left to just hand the ball off - not enough time left for *anyone* to score 24
practicing redzone / inside-the-5 downs are tertiary to getting AM a real series

I don’t think Arch was ever going in the game unless MM got hurt and couldn’t play or shit the bed like a cow on laxatives.

[jdhorn92 1552]

How tall is Neyor?  I know he hasnt played much, but that seems like the only play we havent tried.  The jump pass worked earlier this year, or maybe that was last year.  We have no QB mobility, so  that hurts down here at the goal line.  At least Sam and 18 wheeler could bull doze teams.  QE rolled out once and scored , so i guess there's that, but id like to see us give the fade at least a look.  Also the dig that X scored on vs ISU is a good play down there, haven't seen that this year either.

Edited October 29, 2023 by jdhorn92

[Dnaguy 11975]

3 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Yeah uh, if that stat holds, we are dropping at least 2 more games. 

[89Horn 1514]

3 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

If our red zone % holds the rest of the season, it will go down as the worst red zone offense in  school history

Fine.  Just score from the 21 yard line then.

[Stringer 1439]

I would have been fine with going for it on one of the 4th downs. Either get up three scores first so you can fuck around on the second or fail on the first and then kick the FG on the second to secure the win.

Going for it both times seems pretty dumb.

[yoladu 4094]

take the points... make it a 3 possession game..

at 21-6, I had visions of Malik throwing a pick 6 - making it 21-13 and a real ball game -  which was really not out of the realm of possibility.

 

[Valmy77 13226]

I am all for the theory of going for the TD on the 1 yard line but at some point we have to recognize the reality that we don't have the horses to get it done for whatever reason. So while I hope Sark continues this aggressive strategy going forward it might not be appropriate for the team he has this year. 

[D3zii 3688]

Sark has never had a redzone problem til this year, even before Texas so is not the calls, I do believe it’s just the interior line. Conner and Majors are not a run blocking tandem. . At the end of the day, now yes it falls on Sark to scheme around this but at the end of the day I to was mad at Sark until I went back and watched is not the calls, is the interior that’s failing us on the short yardage

 

if Hutson gets healthy I believe he has to get a look in Conners spot 

Edited October 29, 2023 by D3zii

[bad_teammate 13205]

2 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I am all for the theory of going for the TD on the 1 yard line but at some point we have to recognize the reality that we don't have the horses to get it done for whatever reason. So while I hope Sark continues this aggressive strategy going forward it might not be appropriate for the team he has this year. 

We have the ability to get it done, we just aren't. Gotta figure it out.

[Michael Knight 12981]

4 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

Yeah uh, if that stat holds, we are dropping at least 2 more games. 

You thought we were dropping the last 2 games

[Valmy77 13226]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

We have the ability to get it done, we just aren't. Gotta figure it out.

I disagree. I think our offensive line is a liability and relying on it to get short yardage TDs on 4th down isn't a winning strategy. In the future when that problem is solved start going for it on 4th and 1 near the goal line. Until then, take the points.

[Dnaguy 11975]

2 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I disagree. I think our offensive line is a liability and relying on it to get short yardage TDs on 4th down isn't a winning strategy. In the future when that problem is solved start going for it on 4th and 1 near the goal line. Until then, take the points.

 

We can't squirt Sanders into the flat or jump pass or some bullshit like that?

We don't need a great oline for that shit.

 

[Surly Bevo 24953]

1 minute ago, Dnaguy said:

 

We can't squirt Sanders into the flat or jump pass or some bullshit like that?

We don't need a great oline for that shit.

 

We tried that first idea...turned it over on downs.

[D3zii 3688]

4 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I disagree. I think our offensive line is a liability and relying on it to get short yardage TDs on 4th down isn't a winning strategy. In the future when that problem is solved start going for it on 4th and 1 near the goal line. Until then, take the points.

It’s mainly the interior, more so the left side Majors and Conner

[hookem48 4687]

19 minutes ago, Stringer said:

I would have been fine with going for it on one of the 4th downs. Either get up three scores first so you can fuck around on the second or fail on the first and then kick the FG on the second to secure the win.

Going for it both times seems pretty dumb.

how the fuck anyone could think that BYU team was going to score multiple TDs is amazing.