Horns Down

[dcar00 14366]

2 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

It doesn't have to be a school-specific hand gesture.  I think it's pretty clear when a player is taunting opposing fans/players/coaches with a gesture, and thus draws a penalty, based on current rules.

If a players is blatantly looking directly at some form of the opposition (fans/players/coaches) and makes the quiet sign/throat slit gesture/points to the name on his jersey/runs his hand across the school name on the jersey, it's a penalty. 

If you think that's taking the fun out of college football fine, complain to the NCAA and have them change the rule.

I know.  I am pointing out the absurdity of it all.

[Valmy77 13273]

5 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Here's the actual rule so that at least y'all know what you're arguing about.

Well I stand corrected. I don't see anything there related to taunting with hand signals. So I might be wrong here. But it helpfully says this:

Quote

No player, substitute, coach or other person subject to the rules shall use abusive, threatening or obscene language or gestures, or engage in such acts that provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, including but not limited to:

Not limited to? What a bunch of arbitrary crap.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21921]

It appears from the rule, that pointing a horns down at an opposing player would clearly be a violation.

[dcar00 14366]

that is the most ridiculously worded rule ever.  what incites spectators?  like anything an away opponent would do towards home fans basically. and what lawyer added "image of the game"? meaning we can call anything we want whenever we want.

provoke ill will or are demeaning to an opponent, to game officials or to the image of the game, 

[dcar00 14366]

Just now, NeverMarryAStripper said:

It appears from the rule, that pointing a horns down at an opposing player would clearly be a violation.

as would towards spectators who will be thusly incited. I picture monty python with a guy holding a spector back saying "he incited me, hie incited me!"

[dcar00 14366]

4 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Well I stand corrected. I don't see anything there related to taunting with hand signals. So I might be wrong here. But it helpfully says this:

Not limited to? What a bunch of arbitrary crap.

you are missing this one. so placing hand by ear is bad towards opposing spectators, which is a hand gesture/signal that is unspecific to a school, but not horns down which is specific to the school you are actually playing?  the whole thing is stupid.

Inciting an opponent or spectators in any other way, such as simulating the firing of a weapon or placing a hand by the ear to request recognition. 

[Whitman 694]

22 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Taunting, baiting or ridiculing an opponent verbally.

So i'm guessing that on every single play, some 0-linemen are discussing with the NTor DE some  homework or the hot chick in section 124, and that cocky wide receiver and d-back are just talking about their common interests or what a good game the punter is having?  Every.Single.Play.

[HRSchenker 2273]

I'm more concerned about equal treatment when it comes to hand sign abuse. Mike Davis did the anti-Texas Tech by putting his guns down and got flagged. Nobody gave a shit. West Virginia does horns down, gets flagged, and people lose their minds. Enough with the double standard. Either flag them all or let it slide.

[Eastwood 4394]

Either all of it is taunting or none of it is taunting. But NCAA lacks a spine, so of course they leave it to the official's discretion.

[dcar00 14366]

37 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

It appears from the rule, that pointing a horns down at an opposing player would clearly be a violation.

yes, that has been flagged for some time.  but it doesn't happen often as they know it will be flagged.  the question is doing towards fans/their own team on the field of play.

I am sure holgo the drunk asked specifically if we don't do it towards bench or player will it be flagged?

[BabaYaga 15320]

Just now, dcar00 said:

yes, that has been flagged for some time.  but it doesn't happen often as they know it will be flagged.  the question is doing towards fans/their own team on the field of play.

I am sure holgo the drunk asked specifically if we don't do it towards bench or player will it be flagged?

No-win situation for us.  It's in the books....but it's a pussy rule.  Don't like it.  Stop them!  

To win a game on a technicality for a play we failed to stop on the field.  BOMC chants would be never ending.  That we didn't have the foresight to shadow a mobile QB on the goal line is beyond idiotic.  

[Valmy77 13273]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

To win a game on a technicality for a play we failed to stop on the field.  BOMC chants would be never ending.  That we didn't have the foresight to shadow a mobile QB on the goal line is beyond idiotic.  

What are you talking about?

Quote

No-win situation for us.  It's in the books....but it's a pussy rule.  Don't like it.  Stop them! 

If we don't like the rule...then stop who? The officials? How would we do this? Anyway it has nothing to do with liking anything. If taunting is illegal than it should be called. If it should be legal than get the rules to change.

Or maybe the hand gesture thing is not even illegal. I don't know.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Valmy77

[Tex Pete 20488]

11 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

yes, that has been flagged for some time.  but it doesn't happen often as they know it will be flagged.  the question is doing towards fans/their own team on the field of play.

I am sure holgo the drunk asked specifically if we don't do it towards bench or player will it be flagged?

It's apparent to me that drunk ass Holgerson brought it to the officials' attention before the game, so it's his own fault they got called for it.  

[Valmy77 13273]

Just now, Tex Pete said:

It's apparent to me that drunk ass Holgerson brought it to the officials' attention before the game, so it's his own fault they got called for it.  

That is a bit strange considering the fact I have never seen that called on our opponents before Saturday.

[BabaYaga 15320]

1 minute ago, Valmy77 said:

What are you talking about?

If we don't like the rule...then stop who? The officials? How would we do this? Anyway it has nothing to do with liking anything. If taunting is illegal than it should be called. If it should be legal than get the rules to change.

Stop the other team.  On the fucking field.  Something our pussy defense doesn't seemingly know how to do anymore.  Inverting other teams hand gestures isn't anything new.  Giving and getting shit is a part of the game.  For players.  And fans.  Suck it up.  It's a stupid rule and should be limited to grievous gestures like giving the double-bird to the opposing bench.  Crap like that.  We have all choked down horns down for decades.  Or shaking my keys and chanting POOOOOOR AGGIES at the top of my lungs!  

[Skipper 6200]

1 minute ago, Tex Pete said:

It's apparent to me that drunk ass Holgerson brought it to the officials' attention before the game, so it's his own fault they got called for it.  

That entire situation of events is odd.   Were there players so damn on intent on doing the horns down that it was raised with the Holgo who thought it meaningful enough to discuss with officials and then gave the players permission?  The ability for a non-rival like WVU to do the horns down in our stadium is that damn important?  Bizarre.

[Tex Pete 20488]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Stop the other team.  On the fucking field.  Something our pussy defense doesn't seemingly know how to do anymore. 

Which literally has nothing to do with horns down and whether or not it is or should be a penalty.

[Valmy77 13273]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Stop the other team.  On the fucking field. 

Sure. What does that have to do with anything?

Quote

Something our pussy defense doesn't seemingly know how to do anymore.  Inverting other teams hand gestures isn't anything new.  Giving and getting shit is a part of the game.  For players.  And fans.  Suck it up. 

I don't give a fuck if they want to do 'horns down' to us.

Quote

It's a stupid rule and should be limited to grievous gestures like giving the double-bird to the opposing bench.  Crap like that.  We have all choked down horns down for decades.  

Well I demand consistency on how rules are enforced. We have gotten flagged for far less.

Quote

Or shaking my keys and chanting POOOOOOR AGGIES at the top of my lungs! 

Unless you are a player or a coach I don't see how that is relevant.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Valmy77

[utee94 15863]

1 hour ago, Valmy77 said:

I liked the fact that Herman has an edge to him and does shit like that. We probably need some of that around here.

But it was obviously taunting. I would have had no problem with a flag being thrown.

I'm not sure it was "obvious taunting."  It was certainly "obvious mocking" but he didn't approach a member of the Missouri team or coaching staff or band or cheerleaders and do it.  He did it on the Texas sideline, toward other Texas players and personnel, and the only reason anyone NOT on the Texas sideline saw it, is because it was caught on camera.

I'd be okay with folks calling it "classless" and I'd be okay with officials labeling it "unsportsmanlike" though I'm not sure there's any specific rule that prohibits that type of activity, when it is NOT taunting, which I don't believe it was.  Mocking, yes.  Taunting?  I don't think so.

[Guest]

as an avowed hater of UT athletics in general, 

#1. I have never done the Horns down, regardless of sobriety or any other factors.  It's dumb.

#2. It should not be a penalty, but Grier deliberately ran to taunt fans.   IMHO, that was the penalty.  IT's college football and the "fuck you for yelling against me, we just scored" bit is part of the great fun for players at games. While I don't agree with validating your opponent by doing their hand signal, I don't think simply doing so should be a penalty. Grier did more than that, and if players were encouraged to do more of that behavior, there'd be a crapton of Malice in the Palace scenarios with drunken fans.

#3,  If doing it upside down is offensive, then maybe the originators should have considered that before doing it in the first place.  This is aimed more towards offended aggy when you're not quite as reverent as they had hoped for.  Fuck them.  If you can't handle it, then don't dish it out.

Edited November 5, 2018 by slorch

[dcar00 14366]

13 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

That is a bit strange considering the fact I have never seen that called on our opponents before Saturday.

its been called on OU before and not just when they did it towards our players.  they usually do it on the sidelines to the cameras or their own fans when they score on their end now as they know officials are looking for it if it happens on our end.

[dcar00 14366]

3 minutes ago, slorch said:

as an avowed hater of UT athletics in general, 

#1. I have never done the Horns down, regardless of sobriety or any other factors.  It's dumb.

#2. It should not be a penalty, but Grier deliberately ran to taunt fans.   IMHO, that was the penalty.  IT's college football and the "fuck you for yelling against me, we just scored" bit is part of the great fun for players at games. While I don't agree with validating your opponent by doing their hand signal, I don't think simply doing so should be a penalty. 

#3,  If doing it upside down is offensive, then maybe the originators should have considered that before doing it in the first place.  This is aimed more towards offended aggy when you're not quite as reverent as they had hoped for.  Fuck them.  If you can't handle it, then don't dish it out.

jesus christo, again, it isn't about what we find offensive, its about the taunting rule and applying it evenly/correctly.  by the way, they could start penalizing on the XP instead of KO which would have screwed WVU in going for 2. Why isn't the rule that way since it is the next play? because they don't really care about taunting all that much.  

they get around that by saying the XP is an untimed play.

 

[Greg Davis Apologist 213]

Just now, dcar00 said:

jesus christo, again, it isn't about what we find offensive, its about the taunting rule and applying it evenly/correctly.  by the way, they could start penalizing on the XP instead of KO which would have screwed WVU in going for 2. Why isn't the rule that way since it is the next play? because they don't really care about taunting all that much.  

they get around that by saying the XP is an untimed play.

 

I was kind of drunk at the time, but wasn't the penalty after the 2-point conversion? Or was it after the TD?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

jesus christo, again, it isn't about what we find offensive, its about the taunting rule and applying it evenly/correctly.  by the way, they could start penalizing on the XP instead of KO which would have screwed WVU in going for 2. Why isn't the rule that way since it is the next play? because they don't really care about taunting all that much.  

they get around that by saying the XP is an untimed play.

 

In English, again:

If they simply do the horns down, fuck no it shouldn't be a penalty.

If they run to someone( fans) or stand over a player doing it, then it should be.

it should be easy... but of course, it's college football, so it will not be.

Edited November 5, 2018 by slorch

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Greg Davis Apologist said:

I was kind of drunk at the time, but wasn't the penalty after the 2-point conversion? Or was it after the TD?

It was on the 2PAT as Grier ran to the left side of the endzone, he continued all the way to the rail in front of the fans, as in deliberately, not part of having slow down after a catch or something.

Edited November 5, 2018 by slorch

[dcar00 14366]

20 minutes ago, Skipper said:

That entire situation of events is odd.   Were there players so damn on intent on doing the horns down that it was raised with the Holgo who thought it meaningful enough to discuss with officials and then gave the players permission?  The ability for a non-rival like WVU to do the horns down in our stadium is that damn important?  Bizarre.

yes, actually they were.   he knows it fires his team up and its great for replays to show WVU players doing the horns down a bunch after scoring.  everyone thinks this is silly but an active Big 12 head coach thought it was important enough he wanted to know what would and wouldn't get flagged so he could tell his players what to do instead of just saying don't do that stupid shit on the field, save it for the sidelines or after the game. 

WVU players "cmon coach what good is that? its not cool if you can't do it after burning a CB for a TD, dropping the ball as soon as possible after crossing the goal line and running towards a camera."  by the way, this applies to a ton of CFB players pretty much.

Texas fans are used to it, most of us don't really care, its when actually penalties are called that it makes a difference.

 

[dcar00 14366]

5 minutes ago, Greg Davis Apologist said:

I was kind of drunk at the time, but wasn't the penalty after the 2-point conversion? Or was it after the TD?

early in the game it was after the TD. late game was after the 2pt.  I'm just providing a what if scenario on after a TD.

[Greg Davis Apologist 213]

1 minute ago, slorch said:

It was on the 2PAT as Grier ran to the left side of the endzone, he continued all the way to the rail in front of the fans, as in deliberately, not part of having slow down after a catch or something.

That's what I thought. 

Herman was upset Grier didn't get penalized for sticking the ball out before he got in the endzone. That would have been a live ball foul that would have negated the 2-point conversion and backed them up 15 yards for the next try. 

All of this seems pretty petty to me though.

[dcar00 14366]

7 minutes ago, slorch said:

In English, again:

If they simply do the horns down, fuck no it shouldn't be a penalty.

If they run to someone( fans) or stand over a player doing it, then it should be.

it should be easy... but of course, it's college football, so it will not be.

In English, how far away from fans do you need to be? in the endone, just off the back, etc?  if you catch a ball at OSU and turn to fans or take few steps towards them and do guns down 10 feet away is it a foul?  again, my opinion is it shouldn't be a penalty unless done to player or coach or sideline. run to fans all you want, turn to fans all you want saying "are you not entertained while throwing the X", I don't care. just be fucking consistent in applying the rule

 Grier should not have been penalized for what he did after the 2pt conversion but I think he did throw the ball at the wall which I think is what got him the penalty.

[Gene Parmesan 4014]

This thread would be a lot cooler if we didn't all of a sudden suck again.

[Tex Pete 20488]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Grier should not have been penalized for what he did after the 2pt conversion but I think he did throw the ball at the wall which I think is what got him the penalty.

Sure he should have. It’s the definition of taunting. It was very deliberate, and exactly what I’d expect an asshole to do. 

 

I also recall Aaron Williams (I think it was Williams) being penalized for taunting for throwing up an “X” after making a big play against Nebraska in 2010. I don’t recall it being directed at anyone, but it was certainly called. 

[texaslong 678]

48 minutes ago, Skipper said:

That entire situation of events is odd.   Were there players so damn on intent on doing the horns down that it was raised with the Holgo who thought it meaningful enough to discuss with officials and then gave the players permission?  The ability for a non-rival like WVU to do the horns down in our stadium is that damn important?  Bizarre.

That's the part that nobody in the national media is talking about. They are all talking about Herman. Holgorsen is the reason why it was called in the first place. He spent his pre-game conversing with the refs to make sure it was okay to do it. Hey refs just wanted to make sure we won't be flagged for being a little bit classless today. What a pussy for even asking. If you had to ask for permission, you were the bigger pussy. 

[dcar00 14366]

2 minutes ago, texaslong said:

That's the part that nobody in the national media is talking about. They are all talking about Herman. Holgorsen is the reason why it was called in the first place. He spent his pre-game conversing with the refs to make sure it was okay to do it. Hey refs just wanted to make sure we won't be flagged for being a little bit classless today. What a pussy for even asking. If you had to ask for permission, you were the bigger pussy. 

well talking about a known drunk HC for WVU being a pussy isn't going to drive many clicks....

[BabaYaga 15320]

1 hour ago, Tex Pete said:

Which literally has nothing to do with horns down and whether or not it is or should be a penalty.

Keep reading:   It's a stupid rule and should be limited to grievous gestures like giving the double-bird to the opposing bench.  Crap like that

[Tex Pete 20488]

5 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Keep reading:   It's a stupid rule and should be limited to grievous gestures like giving the double-bird to the opposing bench.  Crap like that

OK. Well, horns down is the definition of taunting. Take it up with the NCAA.

[BabaYaga 15320]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

If you can't handle it, then don't dish it out.

Jesus Christ this!  What a bunch of bleeding gashes our fans have become.  We got tea-bagged on our own goddamn field and we're quibbling over taunting?  Has there ever in the history of ever been a team come to Austin, score and/or win the game...and NOT throwing the fucking horns down?  Know what we used to do?  Beat the shit out of these school and bitch that the score was too close....

[dcar00 14366]

1 hour ago, BabaYaga said:

Jesus Christ this!  What a bunch of bleeding gashes our fans have become.  We got tea-bagged on our own goddamn field and we're quibbling over taunting?  Has there ever in the history of ever been a team come to Austin, score and/or win the game...and NOT throwing the fucking horns down?  Know what we used to do?  Beat the shit out of these school and bitch that the score was too close....

what the hell are you talking about? screaming at clouds.  we are actually saying change the fucking rule so they can do whatever the fuck they want towards our fans/their fans or their own team,  horns down, shhh, double bird, hand on crotch, smoke meth, whatever,  we don't care just make it so dipshit referees don't have a chance to do stupid shit.

 

[0xdeadbeef 1652]

Let's reset a bit.  

This video should start at 4:40 on the final 2pt conversion.

 

1. Anyone who thinks extending the ball over the goal line on the final play should have been a penalty is either caught up in the heat of the moment or a moron. I'll assume herman was just caught up in it.
2. The horns down - in an of itself - should not be a penalty any more than a Texas player doing a horns up.
3. What WVU did after that touchdown (4:48 to 4:55) rightly should be a penalty.   4 player went right up to the fans and were yelling at them. The hands signs were irrelevant. 

 

 

[Cairn Horn88 8283]

2 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

This thread would be a lot cooler if we didn't all of a sudden suck again.

Whoa....hold on thar an minute pardner....we only half suck....we can score points....it's the stopping of the other dude from scoring that we suck at.

[jinx 2635]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

#2. It should not be a penalty, but Grier deliberately ran to taunt fans.   IMHO, that was the penalty.  IT's college football and the "fuck you for yelling against me, we just scored" bit is part of the great fun for players at games. While I don't agree with validating your opponent by doing their hand signal, I don't think simply doing so should be a penalty. Grier did more than that, and if players were encouraged to do more of that behavior, there'd be a crapton of Malice in the Palace scenarios with drunken fans.

 

This was exactly my thought.  It would have been different if he or Sills would have scored a TD, flashed an upside down horn, and then ran off with their team mates to the bench.  Both of them made a show of it and specifically taunted the fans. 

 

[mr.goodkat 464]

On 11/3/2018 at 8:54 PM, Lhorn said:

Also one is a positive thing for yourself and the other is disrespecting the other team. Not saying I agree with flagging but to say cheerin for yourself should be treated the same as taunting the other team is silly 

this right here . i really think half of the gooners think that the down horns is their hand sign . 

[Tex Pete 20488]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Jesus Christ this!  What a bunch of bleeding gashes our fans have become.  We got tea-bagged on our own goddamn field and we're quibbling over taunting?  Has there ever in the history of ever been a team come to Austin, score and/or win the game...and NOT throwing the fucking horns down?  Know what we used to do?  Beat the shit out of these school and bitch that the score was too close....

It seems you don’t read so well. 

[brakeman 28423]

9 hours ago, slorch said:

as an avowed hater of UT athletics in general, 

#1. I have never done the Horns down, regardless of sobriety or any other factors.  It's dumb.

#2. It should not be a penalty, but Grier deliberately ran to taunt fans.   IMHO, that was the penalty.  IT's college football and the "fuck you for yelling against me, we just scored" bit is part of the great fun for players at games. While I don't agree with validating your opponent by doing their hand signal, I don't think simply doing so should be a penalty. Grier did more than that, and if players were encouraged to do more of that behavior, there'd be a crapton of Malice in the Palace scenarios with drunken fans.

#3,  If doing it upside down is offensive, then maybe the originators should have considered that before doing it in the first place.  This is aimed more towards offended aggy when you're not quite as reverent as they had hoped for.  Fuck them.  If you can't handle it, then don't dish it out.

eat shit dick wad.

[BabaYaga 15320]

14 hours ago, Tex Pete said:

It seems you don’t read so well. 

Quote

Jesus Christ this!  What a bunch of bleeding gashes our fans have become

Like I said......

[Nivek 16986]

Deadball fouls after the play should negate the play and be issued the penalty. Only way to make it stop is to make is very punitive.

Of course, given that officials within the conference are so corrupt/inept it is unlikely they would handle that right either.

[chase25 2048]

20 hours ago, slorch said:

as an avowed hater of UT athletics in general, 

#1. I have never done the Horns down, regardless of sobriety or any other factors.  It's dumb.

#2. It should not be a penalty, but Grier deliberately ran to taunt fans.   IMHO, that was the penalty.  IT's college football and the "fuck you for yelling against me, we just scored" bit is part of the great fun for players at games. While I don't agree with validating your opponent by doing their hand signal, I don't think simply doing so should be a penalty. Grier did more than that, and if players were encouraged to do more of that behavior, there'd be a crapton of Malice in the Palace scenarios with drunken fans.

#3,  If doing it upside down is offensive, then maybe the originators should have considered that before doing it in the first place.  This is aimed more towards offended aggy when you're not quite as reverent as they had hoped for.  Fuck them.  If you can't handle it, then don't dish it out.

Alright, well, when we come up to Lubbock next week and our doing the guns down after every touchdown I shall not expect a penalty or to hear a single Tech fan bitch about it. What you don't understand is that for the longest time, it is the only hand sign in sports that is fair game. Everything else is taunting....except the horns down, that is all good.

[DigglerontheHoof 21247]

Win and it's not an issue, it's their butthurt.  Lose, for like a fucking decade or so, an it's our butthurt.  Just. Fucking. Win. 

[Huckleberry 33098]

11 minutes ago, Texas25 said:

Alright, well, when we come up to Lubbock next week and our doing the guns down after every touchdown I shall not expect a penalty or to hear a single Tech fan bitch about it. What you don't understand is that for the longest time, it is the only hand sign in sports that is fair game. Everything else is taunting....except the horns down, that is all good.

This has a lot to do with it, too.

There was a point in time where we had been flagged for guns down, we had been flagged for horns up, and no opponent had ever been flagged for any hand sign. So now that they're consistently flagging them, yeah we're going to be okay with that.

[AtticusFinch 155]

I'd rather worry about winning games than whether some douche does a downward hand signal

[mr.goodkat 464]

12 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Win and it's not an issue, it's their butthurt.  Lose, for like a fucking decade or so, an it's our butthurt.  Just. Fucking. Win. 

its always their butthurt . i loathe the horns down , however , every one of those slack jawed yokels that do it think they  have accomplished something truly  great . they have momentarily over come big bad Texas so naturally they have to let everyone know . thereby publicly announcing their inferiority . its quite funny . at least that helps me not get into fisticuffs with gooner trash and sleep a lil' better at night . but yeah win and it don't make a shit .