Mass shooting ar Cali bar

[HenryJames 65917]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

It’s brutal. I just listened to the audio on the way home, and it was too damn much.

But it won’t matter. Nobody in this country is changing their mind about anything.

Might as well sticky a post about “another mass shooting” at the top of the page, and on and on it will go.

[cactusflinthead 27595]

Lawn furniture maybe. Or a canned ham.

[Loco 3752]

 

[SameSame 1703]

Reportedly from the shooters Facebook...

 "I hope people call me insane... (laughing emojis).. wouldn't that just be a big ball of irony? Yeah.. I'm insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is 'hopes and prayers'.. or 'keep you in my thoughts'... every time... and wonder why these keep happening..."

Edited November 9, 2018 by SameSame

[SameSame 1703]

Edit: Let me edit my statement above.

Cnn reported that a law enforcement official said that was posted on the shooters Facebook right before the time of the shootings, but a friend if his said they didn't believe it.

[DigglerontheHoof 21083]

Damn, that quote is dead on balls accurate and horrifying at the same time.  Mass murder to make a point.  

[Pam Cummings 9597]

17 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

First, hording would tighten up supply making everything more expensive.  Possibly out of the price range of a nutjob.  Second, a seller would be committing an illegal transaction when selling a weapon.  So right now, when they track this shooter's gun purchase, it traces back to the store, and the store has 0 liability.  One thing you will notice when mass shooting events occur is that every single time, investigators have no issue finding the point of sale or transfer that put the gun in the shooter's hands.  If these same mentally unstable individuals are forced to attempt a black market purchase, they'd be leading investigators right to the seller's door.  So the black market seller would be an accessory to mass murder once we change the law to put some liability on the seller.  This purchase is different than the typical black market gun purchase for intentional use.   A gang member isn't going to talk and isn't publishing twitter manifestos, and I don't think changes in the law will stop those targeted types of murder.  It will severely reduce the chance of random mass shooting events, however.

 

Guns are not equivalent to drugs.  A drug addict is going to be a repeat customer.  Always going back to get a fix.  A mass shooter is a one time customer who will bring the police to the dealer's door.

Fucking this right here. If guns were highly regulated, these loner/mass shooter types wouldn't have the connections to get one. And the price of a gun on the black market would be so high that a kid in high school wouldn't dream of affording one.

[Pam Cummings 9597]

9 hours ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Men in this country are doing worse than women in this country when it comes to life expectancy, educational attainment and almost any meaningful metric. You will never hear a peep about it in the national discourse. There are millions of men struggling, discontent, not working or in shit paying jobs since good paying manufacturing jobs have gone away. You don’t hear a peep about it in the media.

This is fucking stupid. There are plenty of jobs to go around. A lot of people work 2 or 3.

[Bigbend1812 12897]

Another possible school shooting in NC this morning.  Wtf.

[SameSame 1703]

16 minutes ago, Bigbend1812 said:

Another possible school shooting in NC this morning.  Wtf.

Some chick on twitter says malfunctioning water heater, who the hell knows

Edited November 9, 2018 by SameSame

[GHOSTUSER 361]

24 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

This is fucking stupid. There are plenty of jobs to go around. A lot of people work 2 or 3.

 Not high paying manufacturing jobs that used to pay $18.50 an hour in the 70s allowing a man to earn a good living without a college degree. The amount of men not married, earning crappy salaries amongst the high school grads and raising kids out of wedlock has skyrocketed. We are trying to have a concersation about what’s causing this. In all seriousness, Tucker Carlson’s new book talks about this in detail with loads research cited. It’s clear that some sort of gun control is needed to deal with this problem and I’m a firm supporter of the 2nd Amend.

Edited November 9, 2018 by Iconoclast Texan

[Buzzrock 14880]

Right. Population has increased and society has changed. If other countries can avoid continuous mass shootings, why can’t we? The answer is easy access to guns. Time to adapt.

So you recognize that society has changed while access to guns hasn’t, yet you’re so convinced that the access to guns (the constant in the equation) is the problem.

I don’t know what the root of the problem is. I have no idea what the answer is. You don’t either. It’s ok to admit that.

The *solution* to the problems in our society might be tighter gun laws. But there’s no logic that points to guns being the problem.

[Hank Kingsley 20760]

There is logic and data. Have you looked at the number of mass shootings in other countries?

[Fondren & Main 6676]

32 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

 Not high paying manufacturing jobs that used to pay $18.50 an hour in the 70s allowing a man to earn a good living without a college degree. The amount of men not married, earning crappy salaries amongst the high school grads and raising kids out of wedlock has skyrocketed. We are trying to have a concersation about what’s causing this. In all seriousness, Tucker Carlson’s new book talks about this in detail with loads research cited. It’s clear that some sort of gun control is needed to deal with this problem and I’m a firm supporter of the 2nd Amend.

Is that in "Ship of Fools"?

[Fondren & Main 6676]

11 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

There is logic and data. Have you looked at the number of mass shootings in other countries?

There have been examples of other means used to do the killing though.  I feel like you're ignoring this.  I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but what is to stop someone from renting a box truck and going on a rampage?  Guns are just a tool; they're not the root cause of the problem.  Should we make it more difficult to acquire them?  Probably.  Raise the age to 25 to own them?  That might be a good start.

[DigDug 1665]

In a lot of ways we're an angry violent culture.  It's ingrained in the American fabric.  Firearms aren't just easily accessible, they're advertised and pushed on people.   Groups vigorously push them.   

Kind of fucked up the way my head works after these things happen, but I just walked out of a Dunkin Donuts where about 15 people were inside, half of them lined in a perfect queue.  That's a small area with really no where to run.  Some bastard could walk in there and kill 12 to 15 within a minute and walk out.  It'll probably happen.

The only way there will ever be any sort of legitimate discussion on reform of firearm accessibility is if SEVERAL high ranking officials have direct family members who are victims of mass shootings.

I am by no mean advocating or hoping that happens whatsoever, I'm just saying people don't really seem to care until they're personally affected. 

[Fozzz 152]

34 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

 Not high paying manufacturing jobs that used to pay $18.50 an hour in the 70s allowing a man to earn a good living without a college degree. The amount of men not married, earning crappy salaries amongst the high school grads and raising kids out of wedlock has skyrocketed. We are trying to have a concersation about what’s causing this. In all seriousness, Tucker Carlson’s new book talks about this in detail with loads research cited. It’s clear that some sort of gun control is needed to deal with this problem and I’m a firm supporter of the 2nd Amend.

That's capitalism for you.

[AbeFroman 2138]

1 hour ago, Bigbend1812 said:

Another possible school shooting in NC this morning.  Wtf.

 

49 minutes ago, SameSame said:

Some chick on twitter says malfunctioning water heater, who the hell knows

This is where we are now.  A water heater goes bust and they send the SWAT team out there and every news station is sending out reports saying active shooter situation.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

18 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Is that in "Ship of Fools"?

Yes, it’s been in a very good book to read. He is not some hothead like Gavin McInnes and makes lots of salient points. I like him a lot because he hated the Iraq War like I did.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

8 hours ago, Born to Run said:

 

 

-Maybe if Goosestepping Morons started reading books instead of burning them.

“Never hear a peep” that’s bullshit. All of those topics are discussed in media, academia- fuck even at “the middle school coffee with the principle” And the reasons behind those trends are pretty easy to understand.

 

 

It’s like the opioid crisis. The sheer number of people caught up in those vicious cycles is staggering and in my opinion there is nothing close to #metoo movement in terms of visibility or impact on making even plans for affirmative change 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

8 hours ago, Helobious said:

Details starting to emerge about the shooter (how many times have you heard that?). He was divorced, deployed to Afghanistan from 2010-2011, came home and attended local colleges to study athletic training, and had an interest in motorcycles. He also apparently had a circle of friends (including females) he would go out to the bar where the shooting happened with. Seemed to start having troubles with the law a couple years ago. He still may have been a loner, but he certainly isn't the totally isolated shut-in that many thought he was.

It kind of sounds like he was a somewhat normal guy. And to me that's the scariest part. 

PTSD is a bitch, no doubt. 

Could also be possible that he was after someone in particular at the bar. Girl who shunned him perhaps. 

[SameSame 1703]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

PTSD is a bitch, no doubt. 

Could also be possible that he was after someone in particular at the bar. Girl who shunned him perhaps. 

Not saying he wasn't suffering, but there are no reports he was formally diagnosed with PTSD

[FondrenRoad 4378]

4 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

It’s like the opioid crisis. The sheer number of people caught up in those vicious cycles is staggering and in my opinion there is nothing close to #metoo movement in terms of visibility or impact on making even plans for affirmative change 

Youre making bad assumptions. Men are going to have to get used to competing with women in the workplace. They are going to have to get used to the workplace being largely sedentary too.

Do you know why the EU successfully integrated after WW2?  The number of men was severely reduced. Now that the male population has recovered, here we are again with ethnonationalism and the desire for warfare. In fact, nearly all the strife in the world occurs because men are assholes.

So there should be a metoo moment for men, but not one where they feign victimhood. Instead, the opposite. Take responsibility and understand that men can no longer drag a woman into their cave, they are going to have to work hard to be better people than their fathers, and they are going to have to resist hormonal urges. 

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

14 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Any suggestion of moving the ball forward when it comes to practical, AND MORE STRINGENT, gun laws- by way of example guns not sold freely at gun shows, mental health and more thorough background checks, elimination of large capacity magazines to name a few, at least shows a willingness to engage in the discussion.  Right now every suggestion is met with fierce resistance.

 

That's the problem. And not only with gun control but just about everything now has to be a fucking political issue and fingers need to be pointed to the other side when shit goes wrong, it's the blame game. 

A law or even multiple laws isn't going to stop ALL of the shooters and yes if a bad person wants a gun they will still be able to find one but hey let's do anything to make that at least a little more difficult. 

But the old welp I guess we can't really do anything isn't cutting it anymore.  

[FondrenRoad 4378]

13 minutes ago, SameSame said:

Not saying he wasn't suffering, but there are no reports he was formally diagnosed with PTSD

I would think that diagnosis and treatment would reduce the likelihood of violence, so I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't diagnosed even if he was suffering from it.

Something was clearly wrong with him.  Normal people don't do this whether he "seemed" normal or not. He successfully completed a tour, so it seems to have changed after or as a result of that tour.  But I guess we will find out at some point. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[Hate 20104]

39 minutes ago, DigDug said:

In a lot of ways we're an angry violent culture.  It's ingrained in the American fabric.  Firearms aren't just easily accessible, they're advertised and pushed on people.   Groups vigorously push them.   

What?  You have people vigorously pushing guns on you?  Where do you go that this happens?  

[Trey3216 15325]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

What?  You have people vigorously pushing guns on you?  Where do you go that this happens?  

Right?!  I’ve never even had that happen at a fucking gun shop.  They try to vigorously push clothing and other shit on you 

[Fozzz 152]

19 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

That's the problem. And not only with gun control but just about everything now has to be a fucking political issue and fingers need to be pointed to the other side when shit goes wrong, it's the blame game. 

A law or even multiple laws isn't going to stop ALL of the shooters and yes if a bad person wants a gun they will still be able to find one but hey let's do anything to make that at least a little more difficult. 

But the old welp I guess we can't really do anything isn't cutting it anymore.  

I think in this case his use of a high capacity magazine likely made it easier for him to kill the number of people he did, which is why he chose to use it.  Had the high capacity ban not been blocked (in response to a legal challenge from the NRA), you could reasonably argue that the shooter would probably not have been able to obtain one, and at least a couple of lives would have been likely saved due to the additional time the shooter would have spent reloading.  Doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things, but probably would have meant a lot to those people and their families.  

Quote

A growing body of evidence shows that high-capacity magazines can sharply increase the body count during a shooting by allowing gunmen to squeeze off more shots before having to stop to reload. Mother Jones examined 62 mass shootings between 1982 and 2012 and discovered that half of them involved magazines with more than 10 rounds. A subsequent study relying on the same dataset found that mass shootings involving high-capacity magazines produced 60 percent more fatalities and more than three times as many victims with nonfatal gunshot wounds.

https://www.thetrace.org/2018/11/california-high-capacity-magazines-mass-shooting-handgun/

Edited November 9, 2018 by Fozzz

[Foggy Notion 1202]

According to TMZ, the shooter was posting on Instagram during the shooting. Also says he was possibly targeting former classmates who had bullied him because he had a lazy eye. 

http://m.tmz.com/#!2018/11/09/thousand-oaks-bar-shooter-ian-long-post-instagram-killing-revenge/

[sachick 1189]

1 hour ago, Fondren & Main said:

There have been examples of other means used to do the killing though.  I feel like you're ignoring this.  I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but what is to stop someone from renting a box truck and going on a rampage?  Guns are just a tool; they're not the root cause of the problem.  Should we make it more difficult to acquire them?  Probably.  Raise the age to 25 to own them?  That might be a good start.

I think everyone agrees that guns are not the root cause of the problem. Guns can't pull their own triggers. It's the people that have the guns. And the ease that some people can get guns. Those of us arguing for gun control aren't saying restricting who can access guns is going to be a complete solution. But it's at least something. Once we get some better laws to restrict the mentally ill, let's then look at helping those with mental issues. Let's put money into helping veterans with PTSD. There isn't a single solution to the problem but it's frustrating as hell when NOTHING is done in Washington. Not a damn thing. I fear it will take someone walking into the senate or house with a gun and killing the actual politicians to get them to act.

Edited November 9, 2018 by sachick

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

One of the most frustrating things is that nobody is willing to do anything that isn't exactly what they think should be done. In 2013 Senator Coburn, who was a pretty hard core conservative tried to make a push for universal background checks that would allow people to basically do it themselves without having to spend money to go to a dealer or anything like that, but Republicans of course didn't like it because gun control or whatever, and Democrats didn't support it because it wasn't strict enough, despite the fact that nothing they wanted had a snow flake's chance in hell of passing. Instead of doing something we just put because we can't get our way.

[Brisketexan 104752]

1 hour ago, DigDug said:

In a lot of ways we're an angry violent culture.  It's ingrained in the American fabric.  Firearms aren't just easily accessible, they're advertised and pushed on people.   Groups vigorously push them.   

Kind of fucked up the way my head works after these things happen, but I just walked out of a Dunkin Donuts where about 15 people were inside, half of them lined in a perfect queue.  That's a small area with really no where to run.  Some bastard could walk in there and kill 12 to 15 within a minute and walk out.  It'll probably happen.

The only way there will ever be any sort of legitimate discussion on reform of firearm accessibility is if SEVERAL high ranking officials have direct family members who are victims of mass shootings.

I am by no mean advocating or hoping that happens whatsoever, I'm just saying people don't really seem to care until they're personally affected. 

Careful, that sort of sentiment will get you banned.  But I personally think it's correct.  I think that we have become an isolated, selfish society with zero empathy.  Who cares if some random person or 12 in California, or Pittsburgh got blown away?  I don't know em.  They aren't my family.  Whatever.  Maybe that's our new national motto: "tough shit, it doesn't affect me directly, whatever."

1 hour ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

That's the problem. And not only with gun control but just about everything now has to be a fucking political issue and fingers need to be pointed to the other side when shit goes wrong, it's the blame game. 

A law or even multiple laws isn't going to stop ALL of the shooters and yes if a bad person wants a gun they will still be able to find one but hey let's do anything to make that at least a little more difficult. 

But the old welp I guess we can't really do anything isn't cutting it anymore.  

Of course it's not.

But that's exactly the plan we are committed to.  In fact, there are few things that we the American people are as committed to as our commitment to do absolutely NOTHING about gun violence.  If we were all that committed to our diet and fitness, we'd be a nation of olympians.

20 minutes ago, sachick said:

I think everyone agrees that guns are not the root cause of the problem. Guns can't pull their own triggers. It's the people that have the guns. And the ease that some people can get guns. Those of us arguing for gun control aren't saying restricting who can access guns is going to be a complete solution. But it's at least something. Once we get some better laws to restrict the mentally ill, let's then look at helping those with mental issues. Let's put money into helping veterans with PTSD. There isn't a single solution to the problem but it's frustrating as hell when NOTHING is done in Washington. Not a damn thing. I fear it will take someone walking into the senate or house with a gun and killing the actual politicians to get them to act.

Watch out, see what I said above.  In a society committed to self, nothing will happen until those "selfs" who have power have selfish reasons to take action.  So, you and I both know...absolutely nothing will happen. 

Just go ahead and close this thread.  But no worries, we'll be able to have this exact same conversation again in a week or so when the next mass shooting happens, with the conversation having the exact same results.

America: every few days, a chunk of us are going to be blown away for no good reason.  And we're okay with that.  Maybe tomorrow will be my day to be blown away....but probably not, so, whatever.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

56 minutes ago, sachick said:

Not a damn thing. I fear it will take someone walking into the senate or house with a gun and killing the actual politicians to get them to act.

Tried that during  softball game. No effect. 

[cabowabo 4468]

SAIP, but I read this morning that he discharged a pistol inside his mom's house during the April 2018 incident, and it took authorities half a day to get him out of the house. This wasn't enough to get him involuntarily committed?

[sachick 1189]

3 minutes ago, cabowabo said:

SAIP, but I read this morning that he discharged a pistol inside his mom's house during the April 2018 incident, and it took authorities half a day to get him out of the house. This wasn't enough to get him involuntarily committed?

OR some sort of flag that he should not be able to own guns?

[cabowabo 4468]

OR some sort of flag that he should not be able to own guns?

Absolutely

[staboner 4959]

2 hours ago, DigDug said:

In a lot of ways we're an angry violent culture.  It's ingrained in the American fabric.  Firearms aren't just easily accessible, they're advertised and pushed on people.   Groups vigorously push them.   

Kind of fucked up the way my head works after these things happen, but I just walked out of a Dunkin Donuts where about 15 people were inside, half of them lined in a perfect queue.  That's a small area with really no where to run.  Some bastard could walk in there and kill 12 to 15 within a minute and walk out.  It'll probably happen.

The only way there will ever be any sort of legitimate discussion on reform of firearm accessibility is if SEVERAL high ranking officials have direct family members who are victims of mass shootings.

I am by no mean advocating or hoping that happens whatsoever, I'm just saying people don't really seem to care until they're personally affected. 

ding. welcome to america. we lost the ability to think in someone else's shoes some time ago.

[Hank Kingsley 20760]

1 hour ago, Fondren & Main said:

There have been examples of other means used to do the killing though.  I feel like you're ignoring this.  I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but what is to stop someone from renting a box truck and going on a rampage?  Guns are just a tool; they're not the root cause of the problem.  Should we make it more difficult to acquire them?  Probably.  Raise the age to 25 to own them?  That might be a good start.

There's nothing stopping that right now, yet we don't see Americans use this form of violence very often (if at all).  If we have stricter gun control laws and these people still kill using other forms of violence, then we will need to address that as well. But I don't think conjuring up other ways to kill people in "what if" scenarios is productive at all, or has any basis in fact at the moment.

I don't know the exact psychology behind it obviously, but it definitely seems like gun violence is preferred in the psyches of these murderous fucks.  Maybe burning down a building or using a box truck is too impersonal. I don't know. But the vast majority of Americans are for stricter background checks and age restrictions, and our government is ignoring it. We need action, not what if scenarios that basically serve as a stalling tactic.

[irishtexan 11447]

17 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

There's nothing stopping that right now, yet we don't see Americans use this form of violence very often (if at all).  If we have stricter gun control laws and these people still kill using other forms of violence, then we will need to address that as well. But I don't think conjuring up other ways to kill people in "what if" scenarios is productive at all, or has any basis in fact at the moment.

I don't know the exact psychology behind it obviously, but it definitely seems like gun violence is preferred in the psyches of these murderous fucks.  Maybe burning down a building or using a box truck is too impersonal. I don't know. But the vast majority of Americans are for stricter background checks and age restrictions, and our government is ignoring it. We need action, not what if scenarios that basically serve as a stalling tactic.

and, I'm just spitballing here, but if we had a series of incidents where people mowing down pedestrians in public places, we might take some measures to restrict people's ability to drive vans into places where there are pedestrians. Like putting up concrete barriers around sidewalks or in pavilions. You know, Van Control.

But then again, the powerful van lobby would probably block those infrastructure efforts in the name of self defense, because the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a van is a good guy with a van, and that good guy may need to engage in a demolition derby to defend his family. 

Edited November 9, 2018 by irishtexan

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

A big reason we are left to pondering whether some action would work, whether some regulation would work, whether some violent person would just find other ways to be violent without a gun is because the NRA has so effectively suppresses academic research on this sort of stuff.  There is a chance that a study will result in a conclusion that certain gun related rights lead to death.  So the NRA stops studies from ever happening.  And the ignorance that results allows for inertia because we have to go back to "what's keeping him from driving a truck into a crowd?" rhetoricals every time.  And the answer is:  we don't know if anything would keep him from that, because we don't look at that.

Quote

"The NRA told everybody, 'You either can do research, or you can keep your guns. But if you let the research go forward, you will all lose all of your guns,' " Rosenberg tells Here & Now's Robin Young.

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/05/599773911/how-the-nra-worked-to-stifle-gun-violence-research

[Brisketexan 104752]

1 minute ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

A big reason we are left to pondering whether some action would work, whether some regulation would work, whether some violent person would just find other ways to be violent without a gun is because the NRA has so effectively suppresses academic research on this sort of stuff.  There is a chance that a study will result in a conclusion that certain gun related rights lead to death.  So the NRA stops studies from ever happening.  And the ignorance that results allows for inertia because we have to go back to "what's keeping him from driving a truck into a crowd?" rhetoricals every time.  And the answer is:  we don't know if anything would keep him from that, because we don't look at that.

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/05/599773911/how-the-nra-worked-to-stifle-gun-violence-research

And when the doctors recently spoke out on gun violence -- doctors, you know, the folks who try to put organs, spines, and bones that have been shattered by high-velocity projectiles back together in ERs and trauma centers all over the country -- the NRA told them to "stay in their lane."

The NRA actually said that...not 24 hours before someone walked into a bar in California and gave a bunch of doctors all the blood that they could handle in their "lane."

https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-told-doctors-to-stay-in-their-lane-2018-11

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And when the doctors recently spoke out on gun violence -- doctors, you know, the folks who try to put organs, spines, and bones that have been shattered by high-velocity projectiles back together in ERs and trauma centers all over the country -- the NRA told them to "stay in their lane."

 The NRA actually said that...not 24 hours before someone walked into a bar in California and gave a bunch of doctors all the blood that they could handle in their "lane."

 https://www.businessinsider.com/nra-told-doctors-to-stay-in-their-lane-2018-11

 

 

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

I'm a gun owner and I believe the NRA sucks.

[BlueGreySky 1000]

2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

I'm a gun owner and I believe the NRA sucks.

Palabra.

[Brisketexan 104752]

1 minute ago, BlueGreySky said:

Palabra.

Verdad.  I've mentioned it before -- I bet I'm in the top 5% of gun owners in terms of number of firearms I own.  And f the NRA.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Verdad.  I've mentioned it before -- I bet I'm in the top 5% of gun owners in terms of number of firearms I own.  And f the NRA.

They should have stuck to hunter safety and stayed the fuck out of politics.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

so. . . stay in their lane?

[FondrenRoad 4378]

38 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

and, I'm just spitballing here, but if we had a series of incidents where people mowing down pedestrians in public places, we might take some measures to restrict people's ability to drive vans into places where there are pedestrians. Like putting up concrete barriers around sidewalks or in pavilions. You know, Van Control.

But then again, the powerful van lobby would probably block those infrastructure efforts in the name of self defense, because the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a van is a good guy with a van, and that good guy may need to engage in a demolition derby to defend his family. 

Oh you mean like how that asshole ran down a bunch of people in an NYC bike path last year, and how NYC put up bollards to prevent it from happening again almost the next day?  Its every person's god given right to drive trucks wherever they want.  If you don't like it, you need to get a bigger truck yourself.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

32 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

They should have stuck to hunter safety and stayed the fuck out of politics.

Actually, they have done a decent job in the past. We probably wouldn't have ever had the firearm owners protection act back in the 80's if not for them. We could still be arrested for transporting firearms through another state or have the ATF entrapping people for selling off part of their gun collection. They have done good stuff in the past. But they are pretty far out there now.

[Sbbruin 21784]

1 hour ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

 

 

The medical community only consulted the medical community on the medical effects of a bullet piercing a human body?  Heresy.