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Zavala

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

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30 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

The problem with your thread is that this is bullshit.

Thanks for your insightful contribution! 

9 minutes ago, Jograves said:

No, but people are used to Team Red fucking the economy up. You should be too given that's who you root for.

I have a guess who fucks the economy up, I'm pretty sure they contribute (and own) both parties.

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/graph-how-the-financial-sector-consumed-americas-economic-growth/

"Financialization" contributes nothing to the economy, but eats up all of the growth. Exactly as explained in the video from the OP. The financial sector gets out of control when it's controlling more and more of the government. 

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elfenix
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*thinks the US should be running surplusses generally* *watches the US run a surplus for the first time in his lifetime* *watches the republicans pass not just one but two tax cuts which put us on the

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

This. And as for Onboard's preferred economic approach -- I generally share that.  But here's what I realized about the GOP -- not only are they NOT in favor of what we thought they were....when

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

Let's break down these talking points - because that's all they are, talking points. As many have noted, we already have it.  We have free healthcare for every single human being in this countr

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Zavala

Zavala 1384

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On 7/18/2019 at 3:40 PM, CO Horn said:

2 year-old article. Thanks for the update. 

Boomer vision

computer-granny-meme.jpg

I guess you didn't click the AP article where the house just passed the bill yesterday. It won't get through or anything. The house just wants one thing to hang it's hat on and pretend it tried to do this year.

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CO Horn

CO Horn 172

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10 minutes ago, Zavala said:

Boomer vision

computer-granny-meme.jpg

I guess you didn't click the AP article where the house just passed the bill yesterday. It won't get through or anything. The house just wants one thing to hang it's hat on and pretend it tried to do this year.

Just saying you may want something more recent regarding the impact of the change. 

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/local-business/a-tale-of-two-seattle-job-markets-for-low-wage-workers-in-new-minimum-wage-study/

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19560

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1 minute ago, babysdaddy said:

Negative business investment 'structures' sure is a volatile number looking back.  Can only assume the business investment slowdown is due to companies waiting out the Trade War.  

You mean the completely unnecessary trade war started by an idiot president who doesn't know the first thing about the global economy?

That trade war?

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babysdaddy

babysdaddy 2731

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Just now, David Dennison said:

You mean the completely unnecessary trade war started by an idiot president who doesn't know the first thing about the global economy?

That trade war?

No, I meant the trade war that began as a means to encourage the Chinese to practice fair business and stop subsidizing all industries (at the expense of American business) and stop stealing intellectual property.  But you knew that.  He is an idiot president though.  broken clock right twice a day and all that.

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David Dennison

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2 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

No, I meant the trade war that began as a means to encourage the Chinese to practice fair business and stop subsidizing all industries (at the expense of American business) and stop stealing intellectual property.  But you knew that.  He is an idiot president though.  broken clock right twice a day and all that.

Cool.

When do we stop subsidizing our industries?

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 46175

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9 minutes ago, FWD said:

 

With business investment at its lowest rate in years, it seems like the only thing keeping this economy afloat is Trump's big increase in deficit spending.

Lol we are so fucked.  Batten down the hatches.  Gonna be a bumpy ride.

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zork

zork 629

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On 7/29/2019 at 8:57 PM, American Swindle said:

Someone want to advise this boy that taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society? Or that it’s part of the social contract? Or maybe we need them for roads?

 

 

 

 

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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On 7/26/2019 at 10:32 AM, FWD said:

 

With business investment at its lowest rate in years, it seems like the only thing keeping this economy afloat is Trump's big increase in deficit spending.

Savvy investors and noted fiscal conservatives @Iconoclast Texan and @Johnny Sack see nothing wrong here.

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F250

F250 29203

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If you support the economic nationalism of the GOP can you really criticize "socialist" policies pushed by the left? At this point conservative Republicans have pretty much abandoned classical liberalism and free markets.

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Js1

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https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/yield-curve-inversion-signals-recession

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/yield-curve-inverts-for-first-time-since-2007-102034083.html

Quote

The market’s most closely watched part of the yield curve inverted today, and if its record over the last half-century is any indicator, the U.S. could be headed for a recession soon.

Shortly after 6 a.m. ET on Wednesday, the yield on the 10-year U.S. Treasury bond dipped below the yield on the 2-year U.S. Treasury as the 10-year fell 1 basis point below the 2-year. The yield curve inversion has a strong track record of predicting a recession; each of the last seven recessions (dating back to 1969) were preceded by the 10-year falling below the 2-year.

Concerns over a global slowdown, in addition to uncertainties from the U.S.-China trade war, have weighed heavily on longer-term U.S. Treasury yields. Since the new year, the return on the longer-term 30-year Treasury has fallen from a high of 3.12% in March to 2.08% on August 14.

 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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On 8/8/2019 at 5:39 PM, F250 said:

If you support the economic nationalism of the GOP can you really criticize "socialist" policies pushed by the left? At this point many but not all by a long shot conservative Republicans have pretty much abandoned classical liberalism and free markets.

The party members who need to get elected may be bought, and paid for, but classic conservative republicans do not agree with that concept.  Free market with a gov't over sight to maintain a fair, and level playing field, and controlled spending are what most voting republicans care about (that think beyond go my team).  I'd vote for either party that made those actual platforms of gov't reform and responsibility.

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Brisketexan

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4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The party members who need to get elected may be bought, and paid for, but classic conservative republicans do not agree with that concept.  Free market with a gov't over sight to maintain a fair, and level playing field, and controlled spending are what most voting republicans care about (that think beyond go my team).  I'd vote for either party that made those actual platforms of gov't reform and responsibility.

There is nobody left in the GOP who believes in the free market or free trade.  Nobody.  Those concepts are incompatible with Trumpism, and anything less than full fealty to Trumpism is incompatible with being a party member.

You support an imaginary creature.

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F250

F250 29203

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22 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The party members who need to get elected may be bought, and paid for, but classic conservative republicans do not agree with that concept.  Free market with a gov't over sight to maintain a fair, and level playing field, and controlled spending are what most voting republicans care about (that think beyond go my team).  I'd vote for either party that made those actual platforms of gov't reform and responsibility.

The fact that Republicans practice economic nationalism pretty much destroys any credibility to what you are claiming. Shit, at this point in history the moderate Democrats being lambasted as neoliberals are more grounded in free market capitalism than Republicans.

 

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Onboard 2.0

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24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There is nobody left in the GOP who believes in the free market or free trade.  Nobody.  Those concepts are incompatible with Trumpism, and anything less than full fealty to Trumpism is incompatible with being a party member.

You support an imaginary creature.

No I support those things I listed, as do millions and millions of other conservatives. That we have an administration that doesn't align with those as much as I'd like is just reality now.

Parties change, and evolve over time. I know you have a completely pessimistic version of the world we live in, so your comments are often tinged with doom and gloom, and things will only get worse.

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Brisketexan

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1 minute ago, F250 said:

The fact that Republicans practice economic nationalism pretty much destroys any credibility to what you are claiming. Shit, at this point in history the moderate Democrats being lambasted as neoliberals are more grounded in free market capitalism than Republicans.

 

This.

And as for Onboard's preferred economic approach -- I generally share that.  But here's what I realized about the GOP -- not only are they NOT in favor of what we thought they were....when they are allowed to implement their economic preferences, they choose poison.  

The facts are quite clear -- the party of exploding deficits?  The GOP.  The party of protectionism (by the way, some of the worst kind, favoring the wealthy instead of the middle class)?  The GOP.  The party of paying government dollars to people to make up for the impact of stupid gov't policies (see -- farmers today)?  The GOP.  The party of using stimulus (tax cuts and the like) solely for political gain, as opposed to our long-term economic well-being (that is, as a tool to help when we need financial recovery, like the looming recession)?  The GOP.  The party of "trickle down," saying -- despite years upon years of clear evidence to the contrary -- "this time it will work!"?  The GOP.

It's as if the GOP SAID that they offer us the finest dry-aged steak dinner.  When the hamburger shows up, their supporters wolf it down and say "good enough."  Lift up the fucking bun.  That's not a burger.  It's a shit sandwich, and it's making us all sick.  The GOP's economic policies aren't just "not steak."  They're fucking poison.  Stop listening to their advertising.  Lift up the bun and look at what they ACTUALLY serve us.  And -- this is the important part -- throw it back at them in their fucking face.

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

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7 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

No I support those things I listed, as do millions and millions of other conservatives. That we have an administration that doesn't align with those as much as I'd like is just reality now.

Parties change, and evolve over time. I know you have a completely pessimistic version of the world we live in, so your comments are often tinged with doom and gloom, and things will only get worse.

Sure bud.

Can you just promise to never use the phrases “debt crisis” or “fiscal responsibility” again?

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106952

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1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Sure bud.

Can you just promise to never use the phrases “debt crisis” or “fiscal responsibility” again?

Again, this.  It's not just that they believe in the fairy tale --  it's that they believe in the fairy tale when reality is slapping them in the face, day after day.  "THIS TIME, the GOP will REALLY mean it when they say 'we're the party of fiscal responsibility.'"

source.gif

 

They have never meant it.  Never.  Never ever.  Not even once.  Why in the blue fuck would you go running at that football AGAIN?

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Bateshorn

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I mean, putting aside George H.W. Bush, who actually cut budgets, raised taxes, and sought to impose some fiscal sanity, you really have to go digging to find a GOP president that either managed the economy well, stuck to conservative fiscal policy, or didn't pile on massive amounts of debt.

Every GOP president since Warren Harding, except Gerald Ford, has had a recession start on their watch. In more modern times: Eisenhower had 3. Nixon 2, Reagan 1, HW 1, Bush 2.

I mean, Nixon imposed PRICE CONTROLS for fucks sake. 

Only Carter, who appointed a Fed Chair to control inflation and doomed his own presidency by doing the right thing (and knew it), had 1.

But yeah, the next GOP president will actually impose fiscal discipline.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29595

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2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The party members who need to get elected may be bought, and paid for, but classic conservative republicans do not agree with that concept.  Free market with a gov't over sight to maintain a fair, and level playing field, and controlled spending are what most voting republicans care about (that think beyond go my team).  I'd vote for either party that made those actual platforms of gov't reform and responsibility.

No you wouldn't.

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zork

zork 629

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There hasn't been the will to cut anything for as long a I can remember, possibly back to Graham-Rudman.  Certainly the budgets that were set 4-5 years in advance before Trump came into office, you can check the Federal record, showed 4-5-6%(or more) increases yearly virtually across the board for every program in the federal government on a pure escalator future budget.

It wasn't sustainable then and it certainly isn't now with the business cycle that has gone on longer than ever likely coming to the natural slowdown recessionary correction.  Maybe the Fed will push it further down the road again with another round or two of Quantitative easing or some other masterful policy they have in their yuge bag of financial tricks?

For all of you bitching about Republicans, has the now Democrat controlled House of Representatives called for cuts to anything?

I'd be for a 30% across the board , real, cut to every program over the next 3 years 10% at a time with the caveat that nobody on the lowest 2 rungs of any Federal program could be fired.  Only salary adjustments are allowed and middle or upper management positions can be fired to make the budgets work with those cuts.

It wouldn't be enough to put much of a dent in the deficit, much less start paying the Debt.  But, at least, the least the Federal Government could do is stop the automatic increases to the spending budget.  Hold them steady for a decade or more and do creative budgeting on a priority basis.  

The first month of the Trump Administration there were some cuts in the State Department.  Everyone cried.  They still cry about those cuts and the jobs that are not filled.  There haven't been cuts to anything since.  Stop saying, if you are, that you are for cuts when you know you aren't.(I'm looking up the thread when I say that)

TLDR:

I say cut it all, 10% a year across the Federal Budget till we balance and start paying the debt down significanty, so the pain is universal and no favorites.  There isn't will to even stop the never ending into the future automatically scheduled budget increases so that will never happen.

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