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David Dennison

David Dennison 18608

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6 minutes ago, zork said:

I'd be for a 30% across the board , real, cut to every program over the next 3 years 10% at a time with the caveat that nobody on the lowest 2 rungs of any Federal program could be fired.  Only salary adjustments are allowed and middle or upper management positions can be fired to make the budgets work with those cuts.

It's more likely that you will grow wings.

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elfenix
elfenix

*thinks the US should be running surplusses generally* *watches the US run a surplus for the first time in his lifetime* *watches the republicans pass not just one but two tax cuts which put us on the

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

This. And as for Onboard's preferred economic approach -- I generally share that.  But here's what I realized about the GOP -- not only are they NOT in favor of what we thought they were....when

Brisketexan
Brisketexan

Let's break down these talking points - because that's all they are, talking points. As many have noted, we already have it.  We have free healthcare for every single human being in this countr

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zork

zork 629

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

It's more likely that you will grow wings.

So stop bitching, lay back and enjoy the ever increasing spending.  /some failed, short, old aggy Republican for Governor vs Ann Richards in the 80's named "Claytie"

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
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3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

There is nobody left in the GOP who believes in the free market or free trade.  Nobody.  Those concepts are incompatible with Trumpism, and anything less than full fealty to Trumpism is incompatible with being a party member.

You support an imaginary creature.

And the democrats sure as shit aren't going to be for reigning in spending when they're proposing things like free healthcare coverage for illegal immigrants, free college, more porous borders, etc.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18608

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2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And the democrats sure as shit aren't going to be for reigning in spending when they're proposing things like free healthcare coverage for illegal immigrants, free college, more porous borders, etc.

Democratic voters don't expect the government to rein in spending. 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

It's not free. It's paid for by taxes.

Yes, at confiscatory rates to pay for people who refuse to care for themselves.  

We can play this game all day, in the end you run out of money for the system you get a boner fantasizing about.

Edited by Onboard 2.0
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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Nope they don't they want free everything. Not a recipe for a healthy society.

Socialism!

you know what’s a recipe for a healthy society? The top 1% owning half of the country’s wealth and the bottom 90% less than a fifth. Let’s gut the middle class and start the revolution.

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9083

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Just now, David Dennison said:

Confisctory, huh? What was your actual income tax rate last year?

My rates are acceptable to me other than they're wasted beyond belief thru a poorly managed gov't bureaucracy.  To achieve your world vision rates would be north of 65% for middle class folks.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23356

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I wish I could pay for my road usage in the private sector.  If only the free market would charge me like $500 a month for access to all roads and an extra $100 for interstates.  I could also get a $1,000 tax cut because the government wouldn’t need money for roads.  It’s an obvious win-win no brainer.

This socialism shit has to go.  I’m tired of free roads.  I want the free market to control the highways. 

Fucking democrats. 

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Foosters

Foosters 17691

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5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes, at confiscatory rates to pay for people who refuse to care for themselves.  

We can play this game all day, in the end you run out of money for the system you get a boner fantasizing about.

A good way to appeal to folks working multiple jobs and barely scraping by is to call them lazy freeloaders. Tell them the system is fine and it's them who are broken.

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Grade of D as in David

Grade of D as in David 13253

Posted
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9 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes, at confiscatory rates to pay for people who refuse to care for themselves.  

We can play this game all day, in the end you run out of money for the system you get a boner fantasizing about.

No those programs pay for themselves. Just like the tax cuts.

 

We can play this game all day.

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DixonHur

DixonHur 11074

Posted
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Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes, let's just abandon THE system that created the most prosperous nation on the planet....  

Or, and hear me out...we could implement policies that not only help the economy grow more, but also allow ensure that the other 99% of Americans have an opportunity to share in that wealth.

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Grade of D as in David

Grade of D as in David 13253

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3 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

tell us about trickle down economics, @Onboard 2.0

 

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes, let's just abandon THE system that created the most prosperous nation on the planet....  

Please explain how trickle down economics created the most prosperous nation on the planet. 

 

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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2 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

 

Please explain how trickle down economics created the most prosperous nation on the planet. 

 

when doing so @Onboard 2.0, please review tax rates for the highest earners during the period in which we became the most prosperous nation on the planet WHILE building a massive working middle class.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18608

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6 minutes ago, Grade of D as in David said:

Please explain how trickle down economics created the most prosperous nation on the planet. 

While you're at it, please explain what you mean by prosperous, because we don't do all so hot in at least one leading prosperity index.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum_Prosperity_Index

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Smax

Smax 3799

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Posted
A good way to appeal to folks working multiple jobs and barely scraping by is to call them lazy freeloaders. Tell them the system is fine and it's them who are broken.
How many of those people are college educated and or have marketable skills?
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89362

Posted
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes, at confiscatory rates to pay for people who refuse to care for themselves.  

We can play this game all day, in the end you run out of money for the system you get a boner fantasizing about.

Here in the real world, those people already have free healthcare.  It's called "a trip to the ER instead of a normal doctor's office visit".

Because when they don't pay, and trust me, many don't, you, me, and everybody else reading this thread end up paying extra down the line.  The hospitals don't eat those costs, they pass them on.

Edited by atomheartbevo
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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Smax said:
39 minutes ago, Foosters said:
A good way to appeal to folks working multiple jobs and barely scraping by is to call them lazy freeloaders. Tell them the system is fine and it's them who are broken.

How many of those people are college educated and or have marketable skills?

and what punitive policies can we enact that ensure they'll never have a college education nor any marketable skills?

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Blotto

Blotto 23418

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Posted
2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

No I support those things I listed, as do millions and millions of other conservatives. That we have an administration that doesn't align with those as much as I'd like is just reality now.

 

Fast forward to 2020.....still struggling to repress memories of a Hillary Clinton induced wet dream circa 2004, OnBoard will shrug his shoulders and vote Trump again in 2020.

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F250

F250 28659

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24 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes, let's just abandon THE system that created the most prosperous nation on the planet....  

It has been!!! Once again, conservative Republicans believe the economy is supposed to serve the nation rather than exist as a free market system influenced by signals from individual actors. So we get Import Taxes (tarrifs) because individuals shouldn't decide on issues such as the freedom of capital and labor, no fuck the free market along with Ricardian theory and Adam Smith. Embracing mercantilism because of nationalism is shitting all over the capitalist model that created this nation's wealth and expanded liberalized markets around the globe.

The Republicans have instituted a situation that is rife with rent-seeking behavior. Crony capitalism is not free market capitalism. When the government picks the winners and losers this is not free market capitalism.

 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18608

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Smax said:
51 minutes ago, Foosters said:
A good way to appeal to folks working multiple jobs and barely scraping by is to call them lazy freeloaders. Tell them the system is fine and it's them who are broken.

How many of those people are college educated and or have marketable skills?

More than there should be. See: teachers.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

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The system that created the most prosperous nation on the planet was already abandoned, by Reagan Republicans.    40 years of Republican dominance has led to the greatest income inequality since the 1910s-1920s and a wannabe-autocrat president who successfully ran on returning America to the greatness it used to have before Republicans took over everything. 

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DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt

DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301

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9 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

The system that created the most prosperous nation on the planet was already abandoned, by Reagan Republicans.    40 years of Republican dominance has led to the greatest income inequality since the 1910s-1920s and a wannabe-autocrat president who successfully ran on returning America to the greatness it used to have before Republicans took over everything. 

trickle down

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Horn Dog

Horn Dog 9644

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58 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Here in the real world, those people already have free healthcare.  It's called "a trip to the ER instead of a normal doctor's office visit".

Because when they don't pay, and trust me, many don't, you, me, and everybody else reading this thread end up paying extra down the line.  The hospitals don't eat those costs, they pass them on.

Truly amazing how conservatives can’t understand this concept.  I have explained this over and over to my conservative friends and they just can’t seem to understand.  Repeat after me...WE ALREADY HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE AND YOU ALREADY PAY FOR IT!  Its just inefficient as it possibly can be.

Another concept they can’t understand-  You wanna CUT my healthcare premiums by 15k and RAISE my taxes 10k??  We can’t afford that!!

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11532

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Smax said:
1 hour ago, Foosters said:
A good way to appeal to folks working multiple jobs and barely scraping by is to call them lazy freeloaders. Tell them the system is fine and it's them who are broken.

How many of those people are college educated and or have marketable skills?

giphy.gif

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Foosters

Foosters 17691

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Smax said:
1 hour ago, Foosters said:
A good way to appeal to folks working multiple jobs and barely scraping by is to call them lazy freeloaders. Tell them the system is fine and it's them who are broken.

How many of those people are college educated and or have marketable skills?

If you equate "refusing to care for themselves" with "not having a college education and marketable skills," then sure, I guess we're talking about the same thing.

And lol if you think having a college degree is going to keep your from needing gov't assistance.

Edited by Foosters
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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104465

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And the democrats sure as shit aren't going to be for reigning in spending when they're proposing things like free healthcare coverage for illegal immigrants, free college, more porous borders, etc.

Let's break down these talking points - because that's all they are, talking points.

Quote

free healthcare coverage for illegal immigrants

As many have noted, we already have it.  We have free healthcare for every single human being in this country, even a Polish tourist who falls and hits his head waiting in line for tickets to a show.  It's called the ER.  And it is heavily utilized, and is the most expensive portal for healthcare.

How to resolve this supposed problem?

1 -- meaningful immigration reform, so that we dramatically reduce "illegal" immigration (the ways to do this are myriad, and have been discussed on this board for years - all of which include taxing the folks who are here doing immigrant labor).  2 -- provide general universal healthcare to all, so that the most expensive path (the ER) is not the path that Jorge the construction worker needs to take when he has an infection. 

So, this is an absurd talking point.

Quote

free college

How on earth can we EVER do something that.....we pretty much had not that long ago?  30 years ago, you could fully cover your costs of attendance at UT by working a summer job, and 16 hours during the week.  If we just got back to THAT level of cost, that would be pretty close to free, practically speaking.  WE USED TO HAVE THIS.   IT'S NOT A FANTASY.

Nevermind that community colleges are a good model on how to get there.

Nobody of any import is talking about having the government write $50k a year in tuition checks to Georgetown.  They're talking about a RETURN of college affordability, including having some options that are zero tuition or close to it.

So, this is an absurd talking point.

Quote

more porous borders

This is just fucking made up.  Sure, there's a radical La Raza guy out there who says "no more borders."  But in terms of realistic policy discussion, nobody is proposing "more porous borders."

Your problem is that you believe whatever your pre-selected Gods tell you.  Hannity says it, it's true.  The GOP says they're the party of fiscal responsibility, it's true.  But the facts and data....well, those are a bitch, aren't they?  Look at a chart of federal deficit as a percentage of GDP.  Compare that to presidential administrations and the party makeup of Congress at the time.  Your Gods are pretty shitty Gods.  And the party you loathe has a much better track record.

But by all means, continue to believe Hannity over facts.  That's been working out BRILLIANTLY so far.

Edited by Brisketexan
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elfenix

elfenix 34168

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, zork said:

I'd be for a 30% across the board , real, cut to every program over the next 3 years 10% at a time with the caveat that nobody on the lowest 2 rungs of any Federal program could be fired.  Only salary adjustments are allowed and middle or upper management positions can be fired to make the budgets work with those cuts.

 

 

ah yes, the old "because at some uncertain time in the future, we have an uncertain and knowable chance of not being able to make uncertain amounts of spending that we're uncertain that we'll need, we need to crush the economy now" argument.

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 104465

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Y'all are some braindamaged mofos or total masochists to engage anyone who believes in GOP fiscal policy.  Why bother? They don't operate in good faith.  

Here's what I think the biggest problem is: people -- ALL OF US -- hate to admit that we're wrong.

If you've believed your whole life, including vehemently arguing the point, that the GOP is the party of fiscal responsibility....then you are INVESTED in being right.  And despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary, you'll stick with it -- you'll contort yourself to rationalizing that the GOP is still, RELATIVELY, the party of fiscal responsibility (even though the evidence to the contrary is glaring at you from the recent history books).

It's okay to be wrong, and to admit you were wrong.  Here, I'll start:

1 -- I used to argue that the GOP was the party of fiscal responsibility.  Because that's what they said, they had the rhetoric to go with it, and it made sense.  But given the opportunity to back it up.....they consistently prove the exact opposite.  I was wrong.

2 -- I thought that really cute, but kinda odd girl, who I met through a friend sophomore year, would be a cool chick to date.  She was really cute.  And when lucid, quite engaging.  I thought that the odd stuff would be no big deal.  I was wrong.  

3 -- I supported the War in Iraq.  I thought that the underlying neoconservative thinking of providing an exemplar of non-totalitarian, democratic government in the region could be a good remedy to the madness created by the Sykes-Picot Agreement.  I was, like, SUPER wrong.  I was underinformed and naive, had unmerited faith in our government's ability to execute, and about 100 other things that embarrass me to this day.  I was WRONG.

See how easy that is?  It's actually refreshing.  It's fucking exhausting to have to continue to defend a ludicrous, unsupportable worldview.

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