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futureman

futureman 22464

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, blacklab said:

as with most topics atomheart is correct. Shaggy in it's current state of traffic can easily be hosted on a shared account for < $20 a month. 

Surly currently sits on about 7 servers housed in a rack at a colo in Dallas. The colo we were in in Austin is closing down. The setup we have would cost around $5000 a month or more at AWS. 

how much scat porn would it take to overload those servers?  hypothetically. 

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TwiceHorn
TwiceHorn

Goddammit.

RPM
RPM
blacklab
blacklab

I never paid kevin a dime. I did pay my lawyer a bunch of money though.

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  • 1 month later...
immamac

immamac 42852

Posted
Posted

the storage bill alone for Surly would be over 1500/mo and doesn't give the same redundancy and snapshotting capabilities that we currently have. Our total bill is less than that on purely infrastructure related charges. 

Don't even get me started on the egress bandwidth that we would get raped on because we are a rich media site.

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Captainant

Captainant 27675

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, immamac said:

the storage bill alone for Surly would be over 1500/mo and doesn't give the same redundancy and snapshotting capabilities that we currently have. Our total bill is less than that on purely infrastructure related charges. 

Don't even get me started on the egress bandwidth that we would get raped on because we are a rich media site.

This is not surprising, but it's worth noting that lift and shift as-in tends to be at least as expensive as running in a data center. It's when you rearchitect to minimize data traffic across AZ/regions and effectively implement edge caching that you can minimize egress bandwith for static media content. Maybe there should be a cloud/web engineering thread on surly lol

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thunderlounge

thunderlounge 7837

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, immamac said:

yeah, but I don't have to do any of that shit and I have 100% control and it costs 800/mo and I own all the hardware outright already.


And your shit works, too. Beats the approach of some who think the fancier it is, the better, and then it doesn’t work for shit. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89675

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, immamac said:

the storage bill alone for Surly would be over 1500/mo and doesn't give the same redundancy and snapshotting capabilities that we currently have. Our total bill is less than that on purely infrastructure related charges. 

Don't even get me started on the egress bandwidth that we would get raped on because we are a rich media site.

So you're not running the storage through a $100 8 year-old FreeNAS box in a closet, with a collection of 10 year-old hard drives you had in a box in the attic?

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25937

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, immamac said:

yeah, but I don't have to do any of that shit and I have 100% control and it costs 800/mo and I own all the hardware outright already.

Yeah, that's the piece that makes it cost-effective. That, and you don't have to deal with daily releases of new code from in-house developers, HIPAA regulations, etc.

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immamac

immamac 42852

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Rimbo said:

Yeah, that's the piece that makes it cost-effective. That, and you don't have to deal with daily releases of new code from in-house developers, HIPAA regulations, etc.

We would pass HIPAA or PCI compliance I'm pretty confident. I take the data pretty seriously. You are right about the app dev cycle being much slower for the forum app though. In my day job I address that problem as it relates to databases on a daily basis for some of the largest companies and deployments in the world and I still wouldn't recommend cloud for anything other than elasticity or a raw IaaS provider in 3 year all up front convertible terms.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25937

Posted
Posted
On 8/7/2020 at 4:57 AM, immamac said:

We would pass HIPAA or PCI compliance I'm pretty confident. I take the data pretty seriously. You are right about the app dev cycle being much slower for the forum app though. In my day job I address that problem as it relates to databases on a daily basis for some of the largest companies and deployments in the world and I still wouldn't recommend cloud for anything other than elasticity or a raw IaaS provider in 3 year all up front convertible terms.

See, I started with AWS at the beginning, so to me I just see it as another kind of hosting that has a little more flexibility. Stuff like OpsWorks and Elastic Beanstalk can make it easy, and cost far less than similar products (compare the features of EB to, say, Heroku... THEN compare the costs). It's easy for me to see how each service is built on top of those basic atoms: EC2, EBS, and S3.

More to the point, my goal is not too have anyone administering it. I want the infrastructure to run itself without my involvement, so I can spend the time and money doing other things. I've spent most of my career working for small companies that can't afford to hire someone to babysit the database, and at this point, AWS is the only reasonable solution.

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immamac

immamac 42852

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Posted
See, I started with AWS at the beginning, so to me I just see it as another kind of hosting that has a little more flexibility. Stuff like OpsWorks and Elastic Beanstalk can make it easy, and cost far less than similar products (compare the features of EB to, say, Heroku... THEN compare the costs). It's easy for me to see how each service is built on top of those basic atoms: EC2, EBS, and S3.
More to the point, my goal is not too have anyone administering it. I want the infrastructure to run itself without my involvement, so I can spend the time and money doing other things. I've spent most of my career working for small companies that can't afford to hire someone to babysit the database, and at this point, AWS is the only reasonable solution.
Cloud is a godsend for startups, but when they turn into a business that actually needs scale it is a trap and way less cost effective or agile than owning your own technological journey with any number of manufacturers and technology vendors.
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Rimbo

Rimbo 25937

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, immamac said:
1 hour ago, Rimbo said:
See, I started with AWS at the beginning, so to me I just see it as another kind of hosting that has a little more flexibility. Stuff like OpsWorks and Elastic Beanstalk can make it easy, and cost far less than similar products (compare the features of EB to, say, Heroku... THEN compare the costs). It's easy for me to see how each service is built on top of those basic atoms: EC2, EBS, and S3.
More to the point, my goal is not too have anyone administering it. I want the infrastructure to run itself without my involvement, so I can spend the time and money doing other things. I've spent most of my career working for small companies that can't afford to hire someone to babysit the database, and at this point, AWS is the only reasonable solution.

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Cloud is a godsend for startups, but when they turn into a business that actually needs scale it is a trap and way less cost effective or agile than owning your own technological journey with any number of manufacturers and technology vendors.

That hasn't been my experience. At least, not with working with AWS directly. It's absolutely the case with Heroku, EngineYard, etc (which are, ironically, built on top of AWS). AWS totally gets cheaper the more you use it, as long as you avoid the glamorous services that charge a lot, vs automating the basics. I can manage and monitor hundreds of servers, by myself, with time to spare for other things. 

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immamac

immamac 42852

Posted
Posted
That hasn't been my experience. At least, not with working with AWS directly. It's absolutely the case with Heroku, EngineYard, etc (which are, ironically, built on top of AWS). AWS totally gets cheaper the more you use it, as long as you avoid the glamorous services that charge a lot, vs automating the basics. I can manage and monitor hundreds of servers, by myself, with time to spare for other things. 
10 into 10000 is great. 1000000 into 10000 is a different problem entirely.

If you only have 10 worth of compute workload AWS is great cuz they budget their machines for 10000 if you have a workload that needs lots of hardware the cloud is bad because their hardware is optimized for density not compute.
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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89675

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

That hasn't been my experience. At least, not with working with AWS directly. It's absolutely the case with Heroku, EngineYard, etc (which are, ironically, built on top of AWS). AWS totally gets cheaper the more you use it, as long as you avoid the glamorous services that charge a lot, vs automating the basics. I can manage and monitor hundreds of servers, by myself, with time to spare for other things. 

You're running the Ultima Online servers, aren't you?

j/k, although they are run off of AWS, and man it was a helluva growing pain when they switched over from their own hardware to AWS.

Then again, those servers started on Solaris on a bunch of old Sun servers, and have been through multiple platform changes since the 90s.

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Rimbo

Rimbo 25937

Posted
Posted
On 8/8/2020 at 5:12 PM, blacklab said:

Raise your hand if you spent $100,000 at AWS this month.

 

The only time we got close was on accident. Doing a backfill of our user base into Cognito with Advanced Security on. That alone cost us $50k because the right hand didn't know what the left was doing. Normally? Not near that much.

The trick to AWS is realizing that everything is designed around parallel workloads; i.e., 2 xlarge instances are designed to be faster than 1 2xlarge instance. And so on and so forth, throughout the system.

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  • 1 month later...
WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28783

Posted
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, RPM said:

Because nobody turned in Shaggy as a commercial website. The f-up is with Imgur and they won't fix it.

I'm not buying it. Literally every other message board I've ever used since Imgur was created, and since I created an account at Imgur, supports Imgur. When was that? Ten, fifteen years ago? More? They're like the most popular image hosting site on the net. They're not in the business of not being an image hosting site. Don't tell me it's their API. It's Surly's incompatability with their API. 

If you want to increase membership and traffic at your site, I'd think it would behoove you to be compatible with Imgur. Like they give a fuck about your site and are going to lift a finger to accommodate YOU. And you alone. 

The owners of Surly should appeal to Imgur with cap in hand and ask what they need to do to fix the problem. Especially if profit motive was any kind of factor in the decision to create a replacement website for shaggy. (One can't help but wonder if that might actually be the crux of the problem.)

Lord knows a more efficient interface and enhanced usability wasn't a goal. 

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RPM

RPM 26321

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I'm not buying it. Literally every other message board I've ever used since Imgur was created, and since I created an account at Imgur, supports Imgur. When was that? Ten, fifteen years ago? More? They're like the most popular image hosting site on the net. They're not in the business of not being an image hosting site. Don't tell me it's their API. It's Surly's incompatability with their API. 

There is your answer. Like it or not. 

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  • 1 month later...
UTCzech III

UTCzech III 2907

Posted
Posted
On 11/27/2020 at 11:36 AM, futureman said:

I think badmofo finally gave up. 

BDEFC472-180F-4651-8361-B0AD4D1506A0.jpeg

I do pop over there from time to time (mainly because I have a local radar bookmarked that's just easy to click on when rain's coming...).  Noticed that the active users (people who've logged in over the past month) went from about 20 (pathetic) to 5 (LOLOL).  Curious, I decided to log in, and got this, so I think the shag finally bit the big one, even if it's still accessible, like a ghost ship...

 

shag.JPG

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Tom

Tom 2959

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Posted
On 11/29/2020 at 9:40 AM, UTCzech III said:

I do pop over there from time to time (mainly because I have a local radar bookmarked that's just easy to click on when rain's coming...).  Noticed that the active users (people who've logged in over the past month) went from about 20 (pathetic) to 5 (LOLOL).  Curious, I decided to log in, and got this, so I think the shag finally bit the big one, even if it's still accessible, like a ghost ship...

 

shag.JPG

 

I got that message, too, but if you click around after that it will show you as logged in.

8badmofo hasn't logged in since mid October.  Did he finally get bored of yelling at clouds or should someone do a wellness check on him?

 

badmofo.GIF.4acd72264964b813e0888b8d8cee4fea.GIF

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UTCzech III

UTCzech III 2907

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Tom said:

 

I got that message, too, but if you click around after that it will show you as logged in.

8badmofo hasn't logged in since mid October.  Did he finally get bored of yelling at clouds or should someone do a wellness check on him?

 

badmofo.GIF.4acd72264964b813e0888b8d8cee4fea.GIF

Hm, didn't notice that, thx.  Be a shame if mofo got the rona.  Real shame....

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