2018 NBA Draft

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

1 minute ago, HtownHorn said:

and you would probably not win a damn thing.

Lulz ok. Don't stop now.

[d2o 1602]

29 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

oh and it's also a stupid as fuck way to analyze players/sports.

If you don't win every game and a title, you aint shit.

[Patrick Bateman 3914]

1 hour ago, Machinator said:

Rondo, Prince, Riley, Walker, Issel

Yea, I mean those dudes are nice role players but not foundational guys.  It's just interest that a program as blue blood as Kentucky has never had a great all-time NBA player.  Or a guy like Frank Ramsey.  Ha.  Just interesting to think about.  

Edited June 18, 2018 by Patrick Bateman

[aggie08 21504]

13 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

That's not moving the goalposts at all. Stats in the NBA are easy to obtain, championships are not. If you give a shit about stats then you I don't know what to tell you. No one talks about Karl Malone in the same breath as Jordan, Lebron, and Kobe.

So which schools are doing something in the NBA then? Danny Green and Harrison Barnes (UNC) won a couple rings as no better than the 4th best players on their teams. Kyrie (a cup of coffee at Duke) hit a shot to win a ring. I guess Davidson is crushing it by the ringz argument: one draft pick in 30 years, and they have 3 titles out of him. After that, the dude's advancing deep into the playoffs in the modern NBA are a lot of Euros, high school guys, and some one-offs from San Diego State, Arizona State, and Wake Forest.

[HtownHorn 14682]

51 minutes ago, d2o said:

If you don't win every game and a title, you aint shit.

You think anyone gives a shit the Rockets won 65 games this year, outside of Houston fans. It's nice, but Harden's standing in the league sure as shit didn't change, neither did Paul's. Towns was outplayed by Capela when the games were the most important. I would be wary of taking a Kentucky player coached by Calipari to be my franchise's foundational player.

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

That's not moving the goalposts at all. 

 

Wrong.

[HtownHorn 14682]

Just now, Goo Punch said:

 

Wrong.

Yes you are, a lot.

[Goo Punch 4275]

Yes you are, a lot.

 

you started with "kentucky players go to the nba and do nothing." when presented with the fact that a bunch of them score 20+ ppg, average double doubles, make all star teams, make all nba teams, etc, you moved the goal posts to, "they haven't won a championship", as if that somehow constitutes "they done nothin'."

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

other players who went to the nba and didn't do anything: chuck, karl malone, john stockton, allen iverson, elgin baylor

[BigOrange1 6437]

players who have done "next to nothing in the nba" according to htownhorn:

• anthony davis - 5 time all-star, 3 time 1st team all nba, 1 time all nba 1st team defense, 2 time all nba defense 2nd team, will finish top 3 in MVP voting this year
• john wall - 5 time all-star, 3rd team all nba
• demarcus cousins - 4 time all star, 2 time all nba 2nd team
• karl-anthony towns - all star, all nba 3rd team
• devin booker - 3 years in the league and averages 20 ppg for his career, scored 70 points in a game (that's happened 11 times in the history of the league)

[HtownHorn 14682]

Just now, Goo Punch said:

 

you started with "kentucky players go to hue nba and do nothing." when presented with the fact that a bunch of them score 20+ ppg, average double doubles, make all star teams, make all nba teams, etc, you moved the goal posts to, "they haven't won a championship", as if that has anything to do with what those players have accomplished in he nba.

 

Nah my point never changed. The NBA is measured in championships, Kentucky players don't win many as the main guys. They've had 17 lottery selections in the past 8 drafts(the Calipari years) for an average draft spot of 6.8. Of those 17, 4 have made the All Star team. Cousins, Wall, Towns, and Davis. Davis is easily a Top 10 player, probably closer to Top 5.

You'd have a tough time arguing that the other 13 are anywhere close to the Top 20.

Cousins is coming off a major injury. 

Wall's team played better when he was out this past year.

Towns is probably the next best Kentucky player, but was thoroughly out played by Clint Capela in their 1st round match-up.

Interesting that the Suns keep drafting them in the 1st round and have routinely been one of the worst franchises in basketball the past 5 years.

[HtownHorn 14682]

32 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

players who have done "next to nothing in the nba" according to htownhorn:

• anthony davis - 5 time all-star, 3 time 1st team all nba, 1 time all nba 1st team defense, 2 time all nba defense 2nd team, will finish top 3 in MVP voting this year
• john wall - 5 time all-star, 3rd team all nba
• demarcus cousins - 4 time all star, 2 time all nba 2nd team
• karl-anthony towns - all star, all nba 3rd team
• devin booker - 3 years in the league and averages 20 ppg for his career, scored 70 points in a game (that's happened 11 times in the history of the league)

Davis is injured almost every year, has made it out of the 1st round of playoffs once.

Wall's team played better without him this last year.

Cousins is a malcontent and coming off a horrible injury for a basketball player.

Towns was thoroughly outplayed by Capela when the games mattered most.

Booker is the best player for one of the worst franchises in the league.

Now do the rest of the 12 lottery picks and 7 other 1st round picks. 5 out of 24 is a pretty shitty percentage. Even then, Davis is really the only guy most NBA franchises would claim as their foundational player.

 

So far these 5 players have accounted for a 934-1329 record in the NBA, 32-35 in the playoffs. Not one has lead their team to a conference finals. 

Edited June 18, 2018 by HtownHorn

[BigOrange1 6437]

by my count, the suns have taken two players from kentucky in the 1st round during the calipari era: booker (who is 21 and their franchise player) and labissiere (who is a project and they took him #28 overall so it's not like they used a high pick on him -- and i'm not seeing anyone they passed on at 28 who is setting the world on fire).

[BigOrange1 6437]

the other 12 lottery picks:

1. patrick patterson (taken 14th) - 10 year vet.  not a star, but a solid rotational player.
2. enes kanter (taken 3rd) - if memory serves, he didn't even play at kentucky so not sure he should count, but he can score and rebound. 
3. brandon knight (taken 8th) - nothing special, but he averages 15 ppg over a 7 year career
4. michael kidd-gilchrist  (taken 2nd) - bust as he was taken #2 and is injured often, but a solid defensive wing who is still only 24 years old.
5. nerlens noel (taken 6th) - bust, but has shown some flashes and could be a rotational player in the right situation.  also only 24 years old.
6. julius randle (taken 7th) - very solid young player who is going to get paid this summer.  averaged 16 and 8 in 27 minutes/game this season.  he's 23.
7. willie cauley-stein (taken 6th) - whatever.  
8. trey lyles (taken 12th) - he's a still developing 22 year old.
9. jamal murray (taken 7th) - very good young player.  he's 21 and just averaged 16.7 ppg and shot 38% from 3 this past season
10. de'aaron fox (taken 5th) - he's a rookie PG playing for one of the 3 worst organizations in the sport.  way too early to make any sort of call about him.
11. malik monk (taken 11th) - did not have a great rookie season, but he's 20 and didn't even get 14 mpg.
12. bam adebayo (taken 14th) - had a solid rookie season and will like be a solid rotational player going forward.

whatever point you think you're making, you're not.

[HtownHorn 14682]

3 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

the other 12 lottery picks:

1. patrick patterson (taken 14th) - 10 year vet.  not a star, but a solid rotational player.
2. enes kanter (taken 3rd) - if memory serves, he didn't even play at kentucky so not sure he should count, but he can score and rebound. 
3. brandon knight (taken 8th) - nothing special, but he averages 15 ppg over a 7 year career
4. michael kidd-gilchrist  (taken 2nd) - bust as he was taken #2 and is injured often, but a solid defensive wing who is still only 24 years old.
5. nerlens noel (taken 6th) - bust, but has shown some flashes and could be a rotational player in the right situation.  also only 24 years old.
6. julius randle (taken 7th) - very solid young player who is going to get paid this summer.  averaged 16 and 8 in 27 minutes/game this season.  he's 23.
7. willie cauley-stein (taken 6th) - whatever.  
8. trey lyles (taken 12th) - he's a still developing 22 year old.
9. jamal murray (taken 7th) - very good young player.  he's 21 and just averaged 16.7 ppg and shot 38% from 3 this past season
10. de'aaron fox (taken 5th) - he's a rookie PG playing for one of the 3 worst organizations in the sport.  way too early to make any sort of call about him.
11. malik monk (taken 11th) - did not have a great rookie season, but he's 20 and didn't even get 14 mpg.
12. bam adebayo (taken 14th) - had a solid rookie season and will like be a solid rotational player going forward.

whatever point you think you're making, you're not.

That taking a Kentucky player in the lottery means more likely than not you are going to get nothing in terms of team success.

[BigOrange1 6437]

that wasn't your original point, but i'm done with this conversation.  don't take this the wrong way, but you're kind of an idiot. 

[HtownHorn 14682]

27 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

that wasn't your original point, but i'm done with this conversation.  don't take this the wrong way, but you're kind of an idiot. 

My point hasn't changed. According to you and goo, Karl Malone is the 2nd greatest player in NBA history.

[d2o 1602]

5 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

My point hasn't changed. According to you and goo, Karl Malone is the 2nd greatest player in NBA history.

and according to your point Karl Malone didn't do shit.   Which is closer to right?  (Even though that wasn't their point)

[WJC88 97]

7 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Nah my point never changed. The NBA is measured in championships........

By people with simple minds.

[BradInATX 9208]

9 hours ago, HtownHorn said:

Davis is injured almost every year, has made it out of the 1st round of playoffs once.

Wall's team played better without him this last year.

Cousins is a malcontent and coming off a horrible injury for a basketball player.

Towns was thoroughly outplayed by Capela when the games mattered most.

Booker is the best player for one of the worst franchises in the league.

Now do the rest of the 12 lottery picks and 7 other 1st round picks. 5 out of 24 is a pretty shitty percentage. Even then, Davis is really the only guy most NBA franchises would claim as their foundational player.

 

So far these 5 players have accounted for a 934-1329 record in the NBA, 32-35 in the playoffs. Not one has lead their team to a conference finals. 

God damn this is a stupid fucking argument. I have no ties to Kentucky and the only player on this list that I actually like is Davis. But Jesus Christ.

"Davis is injured almost every year, has made it out of the 1st round of playoffs once." 
- AD is a top five player in the NBA. There is nobody seriously involved with or knowledgeable about NBA basketball that wouldn't have Davis in their top 5 players. The injury thing, beyond just being stupid (he averages 68 games played per year), has nothing to do with his time at Kentucky whatsoever. 

Wall's team played better without him this last year.
- They did not. This is easy to quantify and verify, but I'll let you do your own research (narrator: he won't)

Cousins is a malcontent and coming off a horrible injury for a basketball player.
- So fucking what? What does his injury have to do with Kentucky? You're saying that Cousins getting hurt somehow proves that Kentucky doesn't put stars into the NBA? Jesus Christ. He's a top 3 center in the league.

Towns was thoroughly outplayed by Capela when the games mattered most.
- So fucking what? David Robinson was thoroughly outplayed by Hakeem Olajuwon in the playoffs. Clearly Robinson is a scrub.

Booker is the best player for one of the worst franchises in the league.
- Not even sure what your point is here.

 

You're flailing around and throwing whatever shit you can find at the wall to see what sticks. This is bottom of the barrel, low-effort nonsense. Your post is the type of hot take you'll hear at the bar in Applebee's in Tyler Texas at 1:30 in the morning during a $2 margarita happy hour.  Dreck.

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by BradInATX

[HookEm 2467]

Kentucky players are drafted early... Which means they are most often going to lottery teams. Why would it be a surprise that they don't experience TEAM success? You think AD wouldn't have won a couple of titles by now playing for the Spurs, Warriors, Celtics, Lakers?

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

I seriously hope htown  horn is trolling .  For his own sake.   Because if not: 

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

[fellside 1114]

You're all right and the Htown dude is wrong.

Moving on to this thread's topic, Marc Stein says rival teams believe Sacramento is seriously considering Porter at 2.

Some teams are always in the lottery for a reason. If you like Porter, trade down to 5 or 6 and get an asset.  But I'm rooting for them to draft him at 2 so the Mavs can get Doncic or Jackson.

[immortal13 4059]

4 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I seriously hope htown  horn is trolling .  For his own sake.   Because if not: 

At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul

He is in too deep

[Patrick Bateman 3914]

6 minutes ago, fellside said:

You're all right and the Htown dude is wrong.

Moving on to this thread's topic, Marc Stein says rival teams believe Sacramento is seriously considering Porter at 2.

Some teams are always in the lottery for a reason. If you like Porter, trade down to 5 or 6 and get an asset.  But I'm rooting for them to draft him at 2 so the Mavs can get Doncic or Jackson.

He's an intriguing talent.  A lot of folks still think he's one of the best 2 players in the draft, including the Mavs (reportedly), but you can't ignore the injury risk.  Also, doesn't feel like a lot of teams want to move up from 4-6.  Memphis is taking calls to move down and it feels like Dallas is happy to stay put.  Divac should call Portland and ask them who they'd pick?  If it's Porter, then definitely draft someone else.  He's sure to be an injury bust.

 

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

Love it when guys who regularly do not post in the bball forum bring hot takes about Kentucky wildcat talent.

I'd be content if my starting line up was wall,booker,???,Kat and AD with boogie off the bench.

[immortal13 4059]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Love it when guys who regularly do not post in the bball forum bring hot takes about Kentucky wildcat talent.

I'd be content if my starting line up was wall,booker,???,Kat and AD with boogie off the bench.

But would you win shit, tho

[BigOrange1 6437]

i still don't get how doncic isn't the overwhelming top prospect in the draft.  he's a 19 year old kid dominating against grown men in the 2nd best basketball league on the planet.  

[Ricky Butler 2720]

12 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

i still don't get how doncic isn't the overwhelming top prospect in the draft.  he's a 19 year old kid dominating against grown men in the 2nd best basketball league on the planet.  

I don't agree with this, but I think it's questions about his athleticism. Namely his ability to get separation when good NBA defenders are on him.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8817]

But would you win shit, tho

I'd say we would stand a pretty good chance.

[d2o 1602]

4 hours ago, fellside said:

You're all right and the Htown dude is wrong.

Moving on to this thread's topic, Marc Stein says rival teams believe Sacramento is seriously considering Porter at 2.

Some teams are always in the lottery for a reason. If you like Porter, trade down to 5 or 6 and get an asset.  But I'm rooting for them to draft him at 2 so the Mavs can get Doncic or Jackson.

nbadraft.net has Trae Young at 3 too.   I would LOVE for something like that to happen so one of the top guys fall to ORL.

[UT Lawnghorn 758]

22 minutes ago, BigOrange1 said:

i still don't get how doncic isn't the overwhelming top prospect in the draft.  he's a 19 year old kid dominating against grown men in the 2nd best basketball league on the planet.  

I like Doncic a lot and think he'll be really good. But I have some definite reservations about him ever being able to be the #1 option on an offense.

While Euroleague is better overall than college, there's no arguing there's a lot less athleticisim on the floor than college.  There's potential for long, athletic wings to give him a lot of trouble. He' struggled some in Euro play when a long wing with NBA athleticism guards him. Now, he could develop and overcome that or always struggle against those types of defenders and need to be more of a second option. Either way, I have trouble seeing his floor as anything lower than a productive NBA player with a long career.  I will say that he'll be a bit of a liability on defensive switches on smaller guys, so his offense needs to be really good to make up for that because he'll absolutely get picked on some on defense.

Edited June 18, 2018 by UT Lawnghorn

[immortal13 4059]

I think he will be a solid second option starter in this league

[Ricky Butler 2720]

41 minutes ago, d2o said:

nbadraft.net has Trae Young at 3 too.   I would LOVE for something like that to happen so one of the top guys fall to ORL.

Some team could fall in love with Trae, and if he hits, they'll look really good. I just don't want my team to take that risk.

[d2o 1602]

10 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

Some team could fall in love with Trae, and if he hits, they'll look really good. I just don't want my team to take that risk.

Every yr there are guys that I would no issue if my team passed on and they end up being great.   I wouldnt touch Young ANYWHERE before pick 10-12.  If we end up missing out on him so be it.  The risk of him busting is way too high for me.

[immortal13 4059]

17 minutes ago, d2o said:

Every yr there are guys that I would no issue if my team passed on and they end up being great.   I wouldnt touch Young ANYWHERE before pick 10-12.  If we end up missing out on him so be it.  The risk of him busting is way too high for me.

Could not agree more

[Goo Punch 4275]

32 minutes ago, Ricky Butler said:

Some team could fall in love with Trae, and if he hits, they'll look really good. I just don't want my team to take that risk.

i do want my team to take that risk. he'd be perfect in Philly.

[Goo Punch 4275]

trae young is not going to be a bust in the nba- the sport was made for him. with some good coaching and the right team he could be *great*. the speed of the game, the floor spacing, the emphasis on guys who can shoot/create...trae young should thrive in the league if he goes to the right team.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Goo Punch

[immortal13 4059]

16 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

trae young is going to be a bust in the nba- the sport was made for him. with some good coaching and the right team he could be *great*. the speed of the game, the floor spacing, the emphasis on guys who can shoot/create...trae young should thrive in the league if he goes to the right team.

You mean *not going to be a bust?

[Message Board User 12395]

2 hours ago, d2o said:

Every yr there are guys that I would no issue if my team passed on and they end up being great.   I wouldnt touch Young ANYWHERE before pick 10-12.  If we end up missing out on him so be it.  The risk of him busting is way too high for me.

I think Young goes before the Cavs pick; in fact, I wouldn't be shocked if Orlando takes him (sorry d2o).  This draft is loaded with bigs……..but bigs' value around the league have diminished every year recently.  Young is considered the top PG and voila - in fact, I'll call my shot and say he doesn't last past Orlando.

Kevin Pelton had a recent article equating bigs and centers in the NBA to running backs in the NFL; they're pretty fungible with no discernable effect on a team's winning.  Not saying I necessarily agree with his conclusions, but the feeling that bigs like Ayton, Bagley, JJJ won't really help you go deep in the playoffs is out there.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3914]

Giggity.....

 

[Message Board User 12395]

5 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Giggity.....

 

My dream scenario is that Doncic falls to 4 and Memphis deals 4 to Cleveland for 8 + Kevin Love, who would actually make sense next to the Spaniard.

[Post Oak 20213]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Giggity.....

 

Inject it right into my veins

[Patrick Bateman 3914]

1 minute ago, Message Board User said:

My dream scenario is that Doncic falls to 4 and Memphis deals 4 to Cleveland for 8 + Kevin Love, who would actually make sense next to the Spaniard.

Memphis is capped out and trying to shed salary.  I think you'd have to take back something.  Probably Parsons +

 

[Message Board User 12395]

1 minute ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Memphis is capped out and trying to shed salary.  I think you'd have to take back something.  Probably Parsons +

 

Dude, stop telling me things I don't want to hear.

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[Patrick Bateman 3914]

10 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Dude, stop telling me things I don't want to hear.

Damn it..... I messed up!

[Message Board User 12395]

If Pumas become cool, I'll have to look up all those middle schoolers I made fun of for rocking them, um, some years ago...

Zhaire Smith, Bagley, Ayton, and...Jay Z.

 

[d2o 1602]

9 hours ago, Message Board User said:

If Pumas become cool, I'll have to look up all those middle schoolers I made fun of for rocking them, um, some years ago...

Zhaire Smith, Bagley, Ayton, and...Jay Z.

 

Its a good chance to take but they have to deliver good lookingcomfortable hoops shoes.   Something they have not done since the Clydes of 40+ yrs ago.       Remember Vince Carter started with Puma but left in less than a yr.   He was willing to give money back to not wear them and said they were uncomfortable.