Reforms to our democracy that you'd like to see

[elfenix 34326]

3 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The electoral college preserves a republic. In a straight up democracy the minorities rights stand a much better chance of being trampled. 

it's not the electoral college that makes this country a republic.

edit: it's not the senate either.  and if you're worried about rural places not getting represented, you can draw districts in such a way that rural areas get explicit representation, or you can do other shit like multimember districts. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by elfenix

[Continental Op 3934]

37 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 No state is leaving  the Union (general Grant and Mr. Lincoln out front should have told ya). The electoral college protects the country from being driven by large population 2-4 cities. 

So instead we get driven by 75k people in Ohio, Wisconsin, and Pennsyltucky? 

[elfenix 34326]

1 hour ago, Continental Op said:

So instead we get driven by 75k people in Ohio, Wisconsin, and Pennsyltucky? 

i love how people claiming the electoral college is necessary to prevent a few places from dominating (being the ones where people live) conveniently ignore the fact that between the EC and the primary process, only people in about 5 states matter for presidential elections.

Edited November 11, 2018 by elfenix

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 minutes ago, elfenix said:

it's not the electoral college that makes this country a republic.

edit: it's not the senate either.  and if you're worried about rural places not getting represented, you can draw districts in such a way that rural areas get explicit representation, or you can do other shit like multimember districts. 

States elect the president, not districts. That's the way we do it, that's how it was designed.   It's not perfect I'll grant you.  You wanna change it, call a constitutional convention and make it so.  That's how it works here.

[elfenix 34326]

1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

States elect the president, not districts. That's the way we do it, that's how it was designed.   It's not perfect I'll grant you.  You wanna change it, call a constitutional convention and make it so.  That's how it works here.

uh, this thread is about 'what changes would you make,' not, 'here's how shit currently works' so...

Edited November 11, 2018 by elfenix

[Upgrayedd 5815]

Interesting topic on the Freekanomics radio hour today addressing, among other things, the duopoly of the US political system.

In addition to getting rid of party-specific primaries (moving to a single-ballot and non-partisan primary system), I thought the Ranked Choice ballot/counting method was interesting.  Out of the top 4 candidates that move out of the primary, in the general voters rank each in order of preference.  If nobody receives at least 50%, then the last-place candidate is dropped and the voters that has selected that loser ( 🙂 ) has their votes moved to their second choice.  Repeat until someone gets to 50%.

May be too complicated for Broward County.

More here

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/politics-industry/

[Patrick Bateman 3917]

8 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

States elect the president, not districts. That's the way we do it, that's how it was designed.   It's not perfect I'll grant you.  You wanna change it, call a constitutional convention and make it so.  That's how it works here.

Don't need a constitutional convention.... simply an amendment to the constitution.  People espousing support for abolishing the EC simply are more democratic in their political leanings then you are.... or the Founders for that matter.

[formermav43 4606]

None of this compulsory voting or civil service stuff unless there’s some sort of opt-out process.

[wildcat09 29355]

4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

The electoral college preserves a republic. In a straight up democracy the minorities rights stand a much better chance of being trampled. 

How do you not know what a republic is?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The electoral college would be great if it didn’t constantly suppress the will of the people, you know, the folks SUPPOSED to be running shit. 

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America”

Edited November 12, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[tantric superman 4667]

5 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

i don’t think a free society should force its citizens to serve in the military or civil service unless their is a national emergency.

Mandatory federal "Service and Education" requirement.  Two years.  Can serve in military, government agency, or state or local programs. Could include some basic citizenship/financial education classes.

The goal of the program would be to pull in citizens from diverse backgrounds to serve together.  Try to get some red state/blue state intermingling. 

[tantric superman 4667]

All elections are instant runoff elections.  I'd rather we use quadratic voting, but probably too complicated for us Americans.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

 No state is leaving  the Union (general Grant and Mr. Lincoln out front should have told ya). The electoral college protects the country from being driven by large population 2-4 cities. 

Im sure some general that preserved Rome for a couple 100 years thought the same thing. Yet Rome fell, didnt it?  If all the blue states decided to walk right now all together, nobody would stop them.

Its funny that you believe a war 150 years ago means that states with disproportionately large populations and economies "have" to stick around forever while rubes elect ethnonationalist isolationists who try to intentionally fuck everything up.  Plus, the South still wants out anyway. Why would they fight?  Lee statue out front should have told ya.  Remember that traitor you fawn over?  You could raise his flag again like you want to. 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

1 hour ago, formermav43 said:

None of this compulsory voting or civil service stuff unless there’s some sort of opt-out process.

I'm sure that there will be a provision for people with bone spurs.

[Lucid 3]

Do away with voting entirely and bring in the leadership lottery

[Doc Sam Beckett 5793]

6 hours ago, FondrenRoad said:

If an EC loser wins the popular vote by around 10 million, you'll see CA up and leave, and the Northeast and Northwest follow suit. Even 2020 could result in a breakup. Trump will likely lose by arounf 7 to 8 million votes, but we are entirely dependent on what the Midwest does. 

[workswithseed 2112]

8 hours ago, David Dennison said:

I'm fine with eliminating straight ticket voting, but forcing people to sounds vaguely fascist.

The electoral college is an anti-democratic relic of our Constitution. It needs to go.

 Because its a republic, I definitely don't want to live in a true democracy.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

15 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

 Because its a republic, I definitely don't want to live in a true democracy.

What the hell does the way we elect our President have to do with whether we are a republic or true democracy?  We are a republic because we don't directly vote for laws.  Instead, we elect representatives to do that.  We could elect the President directly and we'd still be a republic. In fact, most every republic in the world except ours elects their President directly.  We could even make the Presidency the ceremonial head of state and allow Congress to appoint a Prime Minister who is head of government and de facto head of state.  We'd still be a republic. 

The EC is simply a stupid relic.  And it is even more stupid when we live in an era where we allow the President to usurp legislative power.

Edited November 12, 2018 by FondrenRoad

[atomheartbevo 89735]

In this day and age, you do not want a military full of people who don't want to be there.

Hell, half the people in today's military don't want to be there.

8 weeks is basic training (or was when I was in).  AIT (Advanced Individual Training - basically your job training) could add another month or two up to a year of training.  In today's environment, you'd need at least 10-12 weeks to get your Joe-off-the-street ready to be cannon fodder.

When I was in the Army, the Vietnam-era folks who had joined up/been drafted and then reenlisted, that were in it for a career, were starting to retire.  They didn't see a draft working going forward, unless it was a national emergency.

These days, a national emergency can't be put on hold for three months while we train up an army.   If there is enough of a threat that we need a full-blown draft, we are using WMDs before any draftees would be ready.  We would have called up the Individual Ready Reserve (former military who aren't actively in Reserve or National Guard units) long before then.

[LowPressure 73]

8 hours ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Maximum voting age.  If you are going to be above the average life expectancy by the time the term for the office up for vote ends, you’re sitting this one out.  No more olds fucking up everything because they won’t have to be around to clean up the mess. 

See...you never know...who would have guessed there were 7000 100+ year old people in Florida ALONE that still care enough to vote!   Hell a couple 120 year olds as well!!

 

I don't care if it cost $20 billion.  The Fed Gov needs to mandate voting requirements on all offices that impact Federal or State wide politics.

The standard is ID + biometirics + in person voting only unless you're actively engaged in military service away from your home. 

Leave the polls open for 7-10 days from 6AM to 8AM.  

If you don't care enough to have an ID, if you can't drag your happy ass down to the polling place...I guess you really don't care enough about voting to participate.

The Federal system should be secured, connected, and managed by the Gov with overview from both political parties.

No more boxes of votes riding around in trunks of cars.  No more counting votes until you get what you need.  No more voting for people that shouldn't be voting.

If San Francisco wants illegals to help vote in their local decisions as to which streets are shitters and which streets are for pissing only...then go with God.  But that happens on another day or in another area...away from any Federal voting machines. 

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

9 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Get corporate/lobbyist money out of politics.  

A company should not be able to donate to candidates who can then pass legislation that financially benefits those companies. It’s fucking ridiculous that they can openly bribe legislators. 

This is a big one. And worse yet, it's those same companies who are writing the language of the legislation that their bought and paid for congressmen are passing into law. It's a fucking joke. 

[WhatTheBuck 28788]

6 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

And fascist

Are you calling the Israelis fascists?

[Agent47 157]

Everybody has their own studio apartment sized country.

[Agent47 157]

Also, we should make the television president.

[atomheartbevo 89735]

1 minute ago, Agent47 said:

Also, we should make the television president.

We did.  It was sworn in last year.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

We did.  It was sworn in last year.

There were better shows to make President.  I'd rather have Stringer Bell or Gus Fring.  Those guys knew what they were doing at least.  Even Kim Kardashian has her shit together better if we have to stick with reality shows.

[Agent47 157]

The national motto should be "It's Christmas morning in America".

[ruitxn 298]

Term limits

[wildcat09 29355]

51 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

What the hell does the way we elect our President have to do with whether we are a republic or true democracy?  We are a republic because we don't directly vote for laws.  Instead, we elect representatives to do that.  We could elect the President directly and we'd still be a republic. In fact, most every republic in the world except ours elects their President directly.  We could even make the Presidency the ceremonial head of state and allow Congress to appoint a Prime Minister who is head of government and de facto head of state.  We'd still be a republic. 

The EC is simply a stupid relic.  And it is even more stupid when we live in an era where we allow the President to usurp legislative power.

It's really amazing the degree to which these knuckleheads have memorized "it's a republic, not a democracy!" as what they think is an intelligent retort to majoritarian arguments.

[Aqua Buddha 14598]

Rather than term limits, I'd instate a forced retirement age in Congress at 75.  We have Senators in their mid 80's who are running for reelection.  Four members of the Judiciary are well into their 80's.  I'm sure the average age of the Senate is well into the 70's and 80's and these people are regulating internet privacy laws.

Aside from getting rid of the olds, I'd also get rid of partisan gerrymandering.  The more competitive races we have, the better.

[Macanudo 12990]

Someone mentioned no campaigning until 12 weeks out.     Change it to 8 week and prohibit fundraising farther than 6 months out.   And that brings me to my real wish....    Change the term for Reps from 2 years to 4 years.  At 2 years, they are pretty much continually fundraising and campaigning.

I also fully support some kind of district mapping.   

[deadshank 24653]

10 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Get corporate/lobbyist money out of politics.  

A company should not be able to donate to candidates who can then pass legislation that financially benefits those companies. It’s fucking ridiculous that they can openly bribe legislators. 

Does this apply to unions that reap the same benefit from making donations to political candidates?

[atomheartbevo 89735]

9 hours ago, deadshank said:

Does this apply to unions that reap the same benefit from making donations to political candidates?

Sure.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

Make campaign finance reform the number one issue, and you'll eliminate many of the issues we face.   Don't allow parties to give more than a token amount to anyone running for Congress or the Senate.    Those two things alone will make democracy much more successful than changing the Constitution.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

10 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Someone mentioned no campaigning until 12 weeks out.     Change it to 8 week and prohibit fundraising farther than 6 months out.   And that brings me to my real wish....    Change the term for Reps from 2 years to 4 years.  At 2 years, they are pretty much continually fundraising and campaigning.

I also fully support some kind of district mapping.   

Current representatives/senators send newsletters or emails to their constituents during their term to tell them what is going on.  But we wouldn't allow their opponent to start campaigning until  early September?  It's a good way to guarantee that incumbents will win even more often.     The opponent would have next to zero chance to get name recognition.

If that's the case, why not just have an up or down vote on the incumbent first to determine if they're even allowed to run.  And they're not allowed to campaign for that one.

[Macanudo 12990]

19 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Current representatives/senators send newsletters or emails to their constituents during their term to tell them what is going on. 

There's a difference between communication and out right constant campaigning.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

11 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

There's a difference between communication and out right constant campaigning.

I agree the comms are not negative ads but they're about campaigns. 

Seems unfair and against free speech if candidates are not allowed to speak until weeks before an election.  "You want to talk to people?  sorry you're not allowed to do so until Sept 1st."  

[Jiggy-Z 3433]

Rework the tax code to ensure we actually have a progressive tax system.  As it is, it is progressive in taxing %s only.  There are too many loopholes, exceptions, deferments, etc on the back end.  One of the main reasons we are becoming a kleptocracy and can't balance our budget.

Healthcare.

[GHOSTUSER 361]

17 hours ago, Mole said:

We could call it The Voter Literacy Test.

I'm for a nonpartisan method of redistricting and nonpartisan oversight on voter suppression/fraud. It wouldn't be hard to make sure every eligible voter can vote and non-eligible people can't. If the goal was actually ensuring the right to vote rather than making sure only my side gets to vote, we'd have this worked out by next election. The right to vote is the foundation of everything. What's happened in Georgia should be illegal.

 

 

Not a chance in hell a voter literacy test would ever happen. Like with a national ID card both the right and left would attack it. The ACLU would say it would disproportionately impact minorities and would run afoul of the Voting Rights Act. I’d like to see national service, increasing the number of representatives in the House and campaign finance reform.

[texastough 1129]

On the electoral college, one thing to keep in mind is the land. The states with lower populations that are over-represented by virtue of the EC also control the majority of the land in the U.S.. They account for a ton of our food supply, energy production, etc. I'm not advocating for or against the EC, but this is something to keep in mind as a counterpoint to the majority-should-rule arguments.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

22 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Bullshit.

That's pretty much your whole schtick in a nutshell.

[elfenix 34326]

1 hour ago, texastough said:

On the electoral college, one thing to keep in mind is the land. The states with lower populations that are over-represented by virtue of the EC also control the majority of the land in the U.S.. They account for a ton of our food supply, energy production, etc. I'm not advocating for or against the EC, but this is something to keep in mind as a counterpoint to the majority-should-rule arguments.

i'm not aware of any large industrial country that's starving, so this concern seems overblown to me. 

and again, if you're really worried that rural voices will get drowned out, there's ways to address that other than giving rural areas control over the senate. 

[elfenix 34326]

Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

That's pretty much your whole schtick in a nutshell.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33876]

Without reading the rest of the thread:
1) Repeal Citizen's United and create a public campaign fund

2) Term limits for Congress and SCOTUS

3) End gerrymandering

4) Remove or effectively neuter the Electoral College

5) Automatic voter registration

6) Decriminalize weed (and possibly all drugs)

7) Tax the shit out of the 1%

There's probably more, but those are the big ones

Edited November 12, 2018 by Longhorn_Fan68

[texastough 1129]

4 minutes ago, elfenix said:

i'm not aware of any large industrial country that's starving, so this concern seems overblown to me. 

and again, if you're really worried that rural voices will get drowned out, there's ways to address that other than giving rural areas control over the senate. 

Its not about starving, its about setting environmental, agricultural, and energy policy, among others. The urban centers on the coasts don't understand or care about how those policies affect the middle of the country. Again, not arguing for or against, but I think the prospect of a majority of voters living in a minority of surface area setting all these policies is a valid concern.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

8 minutes ago, texastough said:

Its not about starving, its about setting environmental, agricultural, and energy policy, among others. The urban centers on the coasts don't understand or care about how those policies affect the middle of the country. Again, not arguing for or against, but I think the prospect of a majority of voters living in a minority of surface area setting all these policies is a valid concern.

All of this. Urban voting habits should not dominate the rest of the country.  

[Fozzz 152]

The foundation of democracy isn't based on the principle of one person = one vote, but really one acre = one vote.  What really matters is dirt, not people.  

[elfenix 34326]

Its not about starving, its about setting environmental, agricultural, and energy policy, among others. The urban centers on the coasts don't understand or care about how those policies affect the middle of the country. Again, not arguing for or against, but I think the prospect of a majority of voters living in a minority of surface area setting all these policies is a valid concern.

That's what expert legislative committees and bureaucracies are for.

 

And that's another reform we need: get rid of all the political appointees running technical bureaucracies.

 

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19120]

I am all for a shortened election cycle and not allowing all the money in politics. 

Only individuals can contribute to policitical campaigns.  Corporations and organizations can no longer contribute.  They are not people.  That means companies and unions are SOL.  I would also limit the amount any single individual can contribute to something really reasonable, like 3,000 per person per candidate. 

Also, you can ONLY contribute where you are REGISTERED to vote.  So, if you live in Houston in the 2nd Congressional District, you can only contribute to President, Texas Senators, and your specific house race.  People in NY, CA, and TX should not be able to influence races in Florida, Washington, etc..

I would also be ok with state and local elections moving away from a primary process and just having everyone run, and top 2-4 candidates go into a runoff.  If you have no policitical parties on the ballot at the state and local level MAYBE the best candidate will actually win.  

 

[Dutchrudder 11141]

1. Make all elections use Single Transferable Vote so that third parties have a chance, and pose a threat to our stupid 2 party system.

2. Reverse Citizen's United and reduce corporate funding for elections.

3. Remove the Electoral College and go with a national STV system for deciding president. STV would apply to each state for their EVs, since there is no popular vote. I would have loved to see the 2016 Presidential election done this way and see if Gary Johnson or McMullin could have won a state or two. 

4. Make the Supreme Court an 18 year appointment. Each president will nominate at least 2 justices during their term. Anyone nominated in place of a deceased or retiring justice would maintain their current time served, and be removed upon the completion of that term. You could have a rule where if >4 years remaining on the term, the person nominated can be re-nominated and confirmed by the Senate, so it's not such a short role.

5. Remove the Attorney General from the President's appointments. Instead have the Supreme Court nominate the individual, and have them go through the Senate Approval process. This position should be more non-partisan than it is now. The AG's office is in charge of investigating the people that appoint them, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The Solicitor General would still be nominated by the President.

6. Decriminalize marijuana. I think this would have an enormous positive impact on our nation by reducing people arrested and sent to our prison population, as well as being an economic boom for many states that produce it. It is a pointless and futile struggle to continue this particular part of the War on Drugs. 

7. Find some more equitable solution for drawing districts.