The 30 Hour Workweek

[tantric superman 4,668]

Was just wondering if any of you have had any direct experience with managing or working (or you have coworkers) a "30 hour week".  I'm putting that in quotes because I just had a short interview regarding an exempt position that is going to be a 30 hour a week position - with a concurrent 25% reduction in pay.   In looking over the internets this looks like it is a developing phenomenon in the US, perhaps being driven by the younger kids and the newer and more European companies.

To me, as an older dude, the immediate problems are that it's hard for me to imagine that the 30 hour week would be easy to manage, given that it is a legal position and I will have some specific legal projects to handle and manage -- seems like there would be lots of pressure to work more.    The flip side is, the other folks in the group are also working the same 30 hour work week.  So its apparently an acceptable set up at the company in question.

Interested primarily in folks who are exempt, not hourly, working a schedule like this.  And interested in "yeah it seems to be working out okay at my company" or "we tried it, and it just won't work unless......" 

  

 

 

[Fudge Nuggets 19,242]

I would hate it.  I probably put in a legit 10 hours of real work a week as it is; why do I want a 25% pay cut for more work?

[Pato del Muerto 52,677]

Seems like it’s more likely a 25% pay cut for 30 hours paid plus 10 or more unpaid overtime hours. I wouldn’t trust it unless it has been successfully in place for years with proof that overtime isn’t any more prevalent than normal for exempt employees. 

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Is it work 10 hours for 3 days? I assume no and it’s work 6 hours for 5. If so, fuck that.

For many years I worked 4x10s. 3 day weekend every week. Was the absolute best. And because of that I will never go back to 5x8s. My minimum for taking a job is 9-80.

[Wally Fairway 5,596]

A 30 a week job would be awesome, it would allow me to find a 2nd job (hopefully also 30 hours a week).
That way I could still work around 60 hours a week; although I'd like it to be 11-12 hours/day and still get a day and a half off for the weekend

 

[tantric superman 4,668]

Flexible, whatever works.  I'm going to be handed a set of traditional in-house lawyer tasks and am going to be expected to handle them.  The "not full time" workload is based on the fact that the group never had an inhouse attorney with my specialty before. 

 

[tantric superman 4,668]

Just now, Wally Fairway said:

A 30 a week job would be awesome, it would allow me to find a 2nd job (hopefully also 30 hours a week).
That way I could still work around 60 hours a week; although I'd like it to be 11-12 hours/day and still get a day and a half off for the weekend

 

This seems to be the millennial approach. 

I'm looking to just work less.  House paid off, no debts.  Just need insurance and a paycheck and can accept a reduction (I would be switching from an iffy US company to one that is a huge Euro conglomerate.)  So a better company but an iffier work arrangement.

[Gene Parmesan 4,016]

48 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

I would hate it.  I probably put in a legit 10 hours of real work a week as it is; why do I want a 25% pay cut for more work?

This.  I prefer to be paid for my zoning out.  Quit trying to reinvent the wheel and screw it up for the rest of us.

[High Plains Drifter 11,054]

17 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Is it work 10 hours for 3 days? I assume no and it’s work 6 hours for 5. If so, fuck that.

For many years I worked 4x10s. 3 day weekend every week. Was the absolute best. And because of that I will never go back to 5x8s. My minimum for taking a job is 9-80.

For about two years, I worked a job that was 4 x 10. What was great was that generally (although not always) I could choose which day to have off. I only had to tell my immediate supervisor about a week in advance. So, if I had a dr's apt on Wed, I could take Wed off that week. What I would often do is take Friday of one week off, then Monday of the next, and get a four day weekend every other weekend. Boss let the employees do the 4 x 10 thing because the job was in the middle of nowhere, and most of use had commutes of an hour or so.

It was awesome. Unfortunately, the job sucked and didn't pay shit, so I quit as soon as something better came along.

 

[High Plains Drifter 11,054]

16 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Flexible, whatever works.  I'm going to be handed a set of traditional in-house lawyer tasks and am going to be expected to handle them.  The "not full time" workload is based on the fact that the group never had an inhouse attorney with my specialty before. 

 

So, you mean that they hired outside attorneys on a contract basis before? If so, can't you look into how much time those attonerys billed? If it works out to average significantly more than 30 hours a week, that might be a red flag. 

[hayden_horn 11,365]

i wouldn't trust a 30 hour work week place paying me 25% less than a 40 hour week. 

i know how mission creep works. hell, i regularly work 50-60 hours a week during crunch times, sometimes more.

don't pay me less to work the same amount.

unless you are punching a clock, i think i would insist on 40 hour work week and 100% pay.

[Incredulity 11,684]

Isn't 30 hours the threshold for "part time" and is the main goal of the employer avoiding the ACA?

[crash_davis 23,122]

fuck that.  they'll still give you 40+ hours of work and only pay you for 30.  

 

[tantric superman 4,668]

Hmm, getting too specific about this situation - I do realize that each situation is different. 

So noted:  need to make sure I'm not getting screwed.

Really more interested in what you guys see in terms of trends, or if you see it working (or not working) at your respective work locations.

 

[Pato del Muerto 52,677]

I think the trend is more work from home days, and more compressed schedules like 4x10 to help with work/life balance. 

I just quit a job where I alternated 4x10 and 3x12, so I only worked half the days of the year, and then had over 200 hours of PTO as well, so there was a lot of non work days. Manufacturing environment though. 

Might go back there in the future. 

[BrazilHorn 6,642]

I’m assuming there’s no travel involved?

for this week for example I’ll be in 6 cities in 5 days for combo of customer and business meetings. 

Travel time is work time in that I’m not home with family etc (and frankly I’m just talking time at airport/on plane here) so I’d eat into a 30hr week very quickly. 

With zero travel and a billable hours model I could see 30 hrs being cool especially if you could manage how you consume hours (3 10hr days vs 5 6hr). 

[Walden Ponderer 12,639]

I've got a friend who works 3x12 for a 36 hour week, and I gotta be honest, I'm frequently jealous. Four days off a week sounds like a dream, not to mention I frequently work 12 hour days anyway, depending on what projects I happen to be working on at the time. Not all the time, mind you, but even doing that a couple of times a month can wear you down if you're working a normal five day week.

[Texas Jeff 1,947]

It's great for an older employee that needs health care but is not looking to move up in the company.  I managed a software developer like this  that moved from a 40 hr week to a 30 hr week and I saw almost no drop-off in productivity.  The employee was one of the happiest people on my team, showed up to meetings on time, did not get on their phone, did not have youtube or facebook up on one monitor during the day.

For the right person and job, it's great .... but you kill any progress up the corporate ladder.

Edited November 15, 2018 by Texas Jeff

[Red Five 41,019]

Could you show up Monday morning at 8, and leave Tuesday at 2 pm and be done for the week?

[HRSchenker 2,275]

Definitely depends on the spread. I work 4x10s and love it. 5x8s is a unicorn job for most people in the medical field. Some places like CVS make their pharmacists work 2x14s with some 6 hour shifts mixed in but it's not enough to get a 3 or 4 day weekend.

[tantric superman 4,668]

1 hour ago, Texas Jeff said:

It's great for an older employee that needs health care but is not looking to move up in the company.  I managed a software developer like this  that moved from a 40 hr week to a 30 hr week and I saw almost no drop-off in productivity.  The employee was one of the happiest people on my team, showed up to meetings on time, did not get on their phone, did not have youtube or facebook up on one monitor during the day.

For the right person and job, it's great .... but you kill any progress up the corporate ladder.

That's me.  On the wrong side of 50 and always been a scrivener.

[davidg 4,040]

Surly be slipping ...

 

[G650 14,292]

I would fucking hate that. I like my work, I am somewhat rueful I don't get to go in on Saturdays like I used to. The reason is I hang with my son, which I wouldn't trade for anything, but I still miss it.

[fattyflattie 4,639]

2 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

It's great for an older employee that needs health care but is not looking to move up in the company.  I managed a software developer like this  that moved from a 40 hr week to a 30 hr week and I saw almost no drop-off in productivity.  The employee was one of the happiest people on my team, showed up to meetings on time, did not get on their phone, did not have youtube or facebook up on one monitor during the day.

For the right person and job, it's great .... but you kill any progress up the corporate ladder.

This is my wife. 3x10 and loves it. Problem is she won’t find that anywhere else and it slows down her want to find something better/different.   But she’s happy af, and I absolutely loathe my work, so there’s some benefit. 

[DaysOff 7,988]

I'm in the middle of a 15 day off stretch, fly a 4 day, 6 days off, fly a 4 day, 17 days off.*

You people work too hard.




* I do have vacation in Nov/Dec.

[The Dog 44,176]

5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Seems like it’s more likely a 25% pay cut for 30 hours paid plus 10 or more unpaid overtime hours. I wouldn’t trust it unless it has been successfully in place for years with proof that overtime isn’t any more prevalent than normal for exempt employees. 

I think that's exactly what this is - especially since they are calling it an "exempt" position, which means that they can work you more than 30 hours without paying you any overtime. I would only do this if I were classified as "non-exempt" to insure that I received 40 hours of pay when they had me work more than 30 hours. 

I wouldn't touch this gig under those terms. They are trying to get you cheap. If they want you exempt, then tell them to salary based on 40 hour work week otherwise require overtime pay for all hours over 30. 

[William_Cannon 86]

i wouldn't trust a 30 hour work week place paying me 25% less than a 40 hour week. 
i know how mission creep works. hell, i regularly work 50-60 hours a week during crunch times, sometimes more.
don't pay me less to work the same amount.
unless you are punching a clock, i think i would insist on 40 hour work week and 100% pay.

This is my experience too. 45 is the new 40. Going above and beyond or crunch time starts at 50. I love what I do and am blessed with the compensation so I’m not complaining. Yup, I too don’t think reduced hours works. Corporate America is greedy, there is strong global competition like never before, and people still measure their own worth by the work they accomplish.

This concept is spilling into other geos. I managed employees in countries where they have laws prohibiting working more than X hours. I couldn’t get those people to stick to their hours. They would always claim that they could choose what they did in their free time. I had a family member that had a 30 hour agreement (layout design engineer). Employer would not keep realistic expectations and she would work 40 each week. While they paid her overtime, it’s not what she signed up for (medical reasons). She threatened to quit and they would adjust, hours creeped up again and threatened again, back and forth and she finally quit. I could go on and on with examples.

[Apep 645]

6 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

This is my wife. 3x10 and loves it. Problem is she won’t find that anywhere else and it slows down her want to find something better/different.   But she’s happy af, and I absolutely loathe my work, so there’s some benefit. 

Not surprised she loves three 10"s.

[Dilligas 666]

Went to 32 hours a couple years ago, Monday thru Thursday. Haven’t driven into San Antonio more than 3 times on the weekend since. The 20% pay cut kind of sucked but it didn’t really affect my life much. 

 

[blacklab 11,957]

When I worked in semiconductor in the late 90's we worked 3x12's one week and 4x12's the other. 

I worked the night shift from 6pm to 6am. Probably fucked up my sleep schedule for the rest of my life but damn I liked that schedule. We'd trade days with people on the other side of the week to make 5 or 6 day weekends occasionally. When we started trading whole weeks and people were getting 44 hours of overtime the managers put a stop to it. Getting 10 days off without taking vacation was awesome.

I'd always have to burn my vacation at the end of the year because I never felt like taking it because of the 4 day weekends.

 

 

[CooterBrown 18,038]

I would hate it.  I probably put in a legit 10 hours of real work a week as it is; why do I want a 25% pay cut for more work?

That’s where I am. I do anywhere from 0 - 12 hours of work a week and I bitch about pay.

[Parliament 14,357]

Surly be slipping ...
 

No kidding. Get it together, Surly.

[Shoxthemonkey 1,983]

19 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

It's great for an older employee that needs health care but is not looking to move up in the company.  I managed a software developer like this  that moved from a 40 hr week to a 30 hr week and I saw almost no drop-off in productivity.  The employee was one of the happiest people on my team, showed up to meetings on time, did not get on their phone, did not have youtube or facebook up on one monitor during the day.

For the right person and job, it's great .... but you kill any progress up the corporate ladder.

This is me. I'm a mechanical engineer for a very small manufacturing firm. I am the highest ranking non-family employee so I have gone as high as I can. I work at least 30 hours a week just to maintain my group health insurance. I just started drawing SS ( I'm 66) so for the time being I am socking away the maximum pretax into my retirement account and putting the leftover SS into savings. Everything is paid off except for one of our cars. Most weeks I work 32 hrs, (4) 8hr days. Every so often I will work more hours to be sure that designs hit the floor in a timely fashion but for the most part I can come and go as I please. I enjoy what I do and am the type that needs a reason to get out of bed. It works for me.

[Neonmoon 38,130]

I work a 9-80 right now. I basically work a 4-10 some weeks if I’m being honest. 

I don’t want less money, or less work, I just want to squeeze my work into less days. 

I would love a 3-13 if that’s possible 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4,979]

I work a 36 hour week and a 48 hour week every check. Dupont schedule, so I get 7 days off every four weeks. If I have to come in for an extra shift during the 7 off it's over $650 extra bucks, so I don't mind much. 

[Bernard 879]

Four day work week should be the norm.

Bernard

[Incredulity 11,684]

I would much rather work 4-10's.

Way back as a high school kid I worked some summers  in a produce packing plant.  Because it was "manufacturing" there were 2 required 15min breaks beyond lunch for an 8hr shift.  I hated that.  You would be required to go to break when you were getting into the flow of the day.  Go sit in the break room for 15 then, go back to the line.  I would much rather have gotten the shit done and leave 30min earlier, but rules.  It did teach me I didn't want to do that work for 30 years as a "career".  Holy Smokes.

[Chuychanga 134]

On 11/15/2018 at 3:07 PM, DaysOff said:

I'm in the middle of a 15 day off stretch, fly a 4 day, 6 days off, fly a 4 day, 17 days off.*

You people work too hard.




* I do have vacation in Nov/Dec.

4 days?  In a row?!  Fuck that.

[Chewbacca 7,788]

On 11/15/2018 at 2:13 PM, The Dog said:

I think that's exactly what this is - especially since they are calling it an "exempt" position, which means that they can work you more than 30 hours without paying you any overtime. I would only do this if I were classified as "non-exempt" to insure that I received 40 hours of pay when they had me work more than 30 hours. 

I wouldn't touch this gig under those terms. They are trying to get you cheap. If they want you exempt, then tell them to salary based on 40 hour work week otherwise require overtime pay for all hours over 30. 

Yep.  The exempt language caught my eye as well.  No reason to call this position exempt if they don't expect more than 30 hours.

[Chewbacca 7,788]

20 hours ago, Apep said:

Not surprised she loves three 10"s.

That's because fatty gives her 10 3s.

[castolon 193]

8 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I work a 36 hour week and a 48 hour week every check. Dupont schedule, so I get 7 days off every four weeks. If I have to come in for an extra shift during the 7 off it's over $650 extra bucks, so I don't mind much. 

I have to be honest, some days I wish I was an operator. Maybe most days. Production engineer here, so my life is pretty okay, but I completely own my unit's problems. Maybe more than I should. 

Edited November 16, 2018 by castolon

[tantric superman 4,668]

On 11/16/2018 at 5:01 PM, Chewbacca said:

Yep.  The exempt language caught my eye as well.  No reason to call this position exempt if they don't expect more than 30 hours.

That's not how it works.  A position is exempt if it meets the duty test (generally, employee has to use discretion and independent judgement) and has to meet a relatively low weekly salary threshhold.  This is an attorney position and pays the minimum weekly salary.  Whether the person works one hour, thirty hours or fifty, the salary is paid. 

It doesn't matter what one calls a position.  It is either exempt or non-exempt under the FLSA.

If they decided not to pay a salary, and pay by the hour, then it would be non-exempt.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by tantric superman

[Chewbacca 7,788]

I understand how it works. I hire lots of people. And if they are putting that in the job description, they are telling you that you are not getting paid for any hours you work over 30.

[Guest]

There are some lazy motherfuckers in this world.

 

30 hrs...holy fucking hell.  Why don't y'all get off your ass and do something??? LOLz.

 

2.5 days of work and people then will cry for a 'living wage.'

Edited November 18, 2018 by slorch

[Underdog 28,826]

I work the alternating 3/4 12hr days, love it.  Can blow a day or two off and still have 2 days off.  There are times when 12hrs are a long day(slow work) but I love this schedule. 

[RDCanecutter 26,513]

A clock ain't got shit to do with what I do,

[tantric superman 4,668]

5 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I understand how it works. I hire lots of people. And if they are putting that in the job description, they are telling you that you are not getting paid for any hours you work over 30.

They are using the 30 hours as shorthand for an exempt position that is going to handle 75% of the caseload.  This is done all the time with exempt employees, who, for example aren't working a full shift because of some short term medical issues or who simply don't want to work a full workload, but want a salary.

https://smallbusiness.chron.com/switch-fulltime-exemption-parttime-20119.html

Salary by definition is pay for all hours worked during the week, no matter how many hours you work.  And by definition it sucks if you're average hourly rate is lower because you are putting in shit loads of hours. 

[Pato del Muerto 52,677]

Genius

[Chewbacca 7,788]

So you know they are going to fuck you? Good for you. I wouldn't do it. But i wouldn't work for someone else, either.

[tantric superman 4,668]

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

So you know they are going to fuck you? Good for you. I wouldn't do it. But i wouldn't work for someone else, either.

Of course you wouldn't do it.  You don't know shit about wage and hour law.  They need an attorney who can break it down.

I don't think they are going to fuck me for a couple of reasons that I won't elaborate on.  The company itself is more solid than the one I am currently working for. 

As to working for someone else:  Look, I may not be rich, Chewbacca, my wife may only be a doctor, but we manage.