Los Angeles is painting some streets...white!

[atomheartbevo 89757]

So what happens if they painted streets in Austin white, and then a storm approached and the city activated the force field?

Oh.

[crash_davis 23114]

this german dude laughs at the idea.

 

[RDCanecutter 26458]

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

this german dude laughs at the idea.

 

One does not simply... walk... into Germany

[Wally Fairway 5571]

18 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

It never rains in Southern California.  

But girl, don't they warn you.

It burns, man, it really burns.

fify

[phdhorn 6224]

So, in a cute, little, unpopopulated area like the L.A. basin, about 34 thousand square miles, just a few streets and hey, we're golden!

Plus, there's this:
 

Quote

The innovative sealcoat is admittedly very pricey, with L.A. reportedly footing a $40,000 bill for every mile it "paints." But advocates say its benefits may just be priceless.

So what, like tree fiddy hunnert $ and we're done here!
Sounds like a Jerry Brown Spaceship Earth Cali id-eer.

 

[RayDog 682]

21 hours ago, LonghornJones said:

But what if tires were white too?

Neoprene rubber is a translucent white before they add color, so it would be easy to do.

[Horn_Spanker 524]

Growing up in BFE during the 60s, all the houses had white asphalt roofing.  Now in my suburban subdivision, there are no white roofs.  My dumb ass neighbor has black shingles.  I'm almost as bad with my light brown.

[RamjetFDO 10577]

[bolverk 29695]

Our spaceman is still the king. Which one of the street painters is Bert?

[Bat Guano 359]

21 hours ago, GringoSalado said:

True but it is much colder in Michigan than it is in the summer.

More people have been to Michigan than I have.

[clapclapclap 9000]

Since Houston copies everything ("The next Riverwalk!  The next Grand Central Station!  The next Central Park!") I expect they'll do this soon, but paint the streets gold.

Edited November 16, 2018 by clapclapclap

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

22 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Nice when a city tries out a pilot program on something that has potential benefits but could possibly fail.  Too many times upper management is only are willing to try something that is proven.  Then they pat themselves on the back for being innovative.

This is where I'm at. Maybe it will suck and fail, but maybe it will make a difference. Maybe it will pay for itself in the long run. Only one way to find out.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

18 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

This is where I'm at. Maybe it will suck and fail, but maybe it will make a difference. Maybe it will pay for itself in the long run. Only one way to find out.

Yes that's it use tax payer money to experiment with a $40K per mile pilot program.  Hey I've got it, howz about using a computer model to predict its outcome... like they do with climate models.  This is exactly the problem with gov't, using other peoples money to fund your projects.  Deadshank has already reported a rebuttal anecdote to this experiment.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

On 11/15/2018 at 2:16 PM, Bigbend1812 said:

Get your sun glasses on for that snow blindness. 

Beat me to the punch...by over a day. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

Beat me to the punch...by over a day. 

First thing I thought of when I saw the OP.  Pretty bright future out there, gonna need shades.

[workswithseed 2108]

8 hours ago, phdhorn said:

So, in a cute, little, unpopopulated area like the L.A. basin, about 34 thousand square miles, just a few streets and hey, we're golden!

Plus, there's this:
 

So what, like tree fiddy hunnert $ and we're done here!
Sounds like a Jerry Brown Spaceship Earth Cali id-eer.

 

Its California, they just raise the taxes again and they'll be golden, should be able to do the whole state when the high speed railroad is done.

Edited November 17, 2018 by workswithseed

[Deej 76858]

22 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

just wait until they try and whitewash manchaca.

oh. wait.

They brownwashed it.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Deej

[RPM 26327]

My question is why aren't they using trucks to spray it instead of Luke and the gang out there doing it by hand? Faster, better coverage and cheaper.

[dimyh 1874]

Like a truck can paint a good dickbutt...that shit needs to be handcrafted.

[bolverk 29695]

6 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yes that's it use tax payer money to experiment with a $40K per mile pilot program.  Hey I've got it, howz about using a computer model to predict its outcome... like they do with climate models.  This is exactly the problem with gov't, using other peoples money to fund your projects.  Deadshank has already reported a rebuttal anecdote to this experiment.

I'm sure that there were a lot of folks out there griping about wasteful government spending on experiments such as paving roads, building curbs, and adding storm drainage too back in the day. $40k per mile is literally a drop in the government spending bucket. A single lighted intersection costs more than this experiment.

[RollLeft 5045]

Meh, I personally think its a waste of a natural resource.  It be better if we could take the absorbed energy and harness it.  Why reflect when every building, city could be absorbing the energy and really using it.  We have to figure out the solar storage issue.    

[RollLeft 5045]

On 11/15/2018 at 4:41 PM, deadshank said:

Meh.  The City of Houston fell prey to the influence of one particular roofing contractor when he approached them with the idea of mandating solar reflective roof membranes on all commerical low-slope roofing applications. 

Houston, specifically inside the loop, is a heat island and solar reflective roofing would help alleviate the problem.  The CoH completely bought into  the program and pretty much overnight updated their building codes stating any commercial property with a low-slope roof built or re-roofed within the city limits would be required to use a solar reflective (WHITE) roof typically coming in the form of TPO, PVC or specific types of modified bitumen membranes.

All of the big commercial contractors (Marton, Antex, Charter, etc.) freaked out.  They were so heavily invested in the built -up roofing sytems (multiple plies fiberglass ply sheets, asphalt and gravel covering and NOT thermal reflective) they literally screamed at the guy that gave them the news at a big  roofing contractors association meeting to go over the new building codes.  These guys lost their minds over the deal:  red-faced, spittle flying out of their mouths, shaking their fists, etc.  

The fly in the ointment for solar reflective roofs and what makes them ineffective is when they get dirty they no longer reflect and are rendered useless.  No one thought of that or that fact was ignored.  In the end the solar reflective roofs are here to stay, dirty or clean.

So.....I guess someone is going to have to go clean the roads.

 

Didn't see your post before i posted mine.  The idea is right the execution was wrong.  Solar panels as they exist and as most know them suck.  First as you stated the penetrations are an issue and probably just as important they are ugly.  That said the technology exists, using existing shingle and tpo designs with solar tech in them, to power the whole house and sell back to the grid.  This solves both the penetration and the aesthetic issue. The issue i hear is they can't get past current fire code standards.  That and energy lobbies are fighting it behind the scenes.  Not even GAF is big enough to have their hands on this tech yet.  Its a bigger political play playing out. Selling back to the grid should change in the coming years.  Also since every state isnt uniform its proving an expensive bet with many local political battles to fight.   It will be interesting.

Edited November 17, 2018 by RollLeft

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

9 hours ago, bolverk said:

I'm sure that there were a lot of folks out there griping about wasteful government spending on experiments such as paving roads, building curbs, and adding storm drainage too back in the day. $40k per mile is literally a drop in the government spending bucket. A single lighted intersection costs more than this experiment.

Yeah, let's stay focused here. Those are things that actually do something, The results are directly measurable.  A lit intersection is a safety feature, a drain takes actual water away, and you can see the direct result and rate water removal, paving rods is a direct improvement over a dirt road.  Please make apples to apples comparisons.

$40K to paint some streets white isn't the same thing especially considering that this type of thing has been tried before and seemed to have little effect once the white became dirty.  The cost to keep the street white is going to be another cost. The glare a white street causes is also an issue if you've ever driven son a snow covered street.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Onboard 2.0

[bolverk 29695]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Yeah, let's stay focused here. Those are things that actually do something, The rest;ts are directly measurable.  A lit intersection is a safety feature, a drain takes actual water away, and you can see the direct result and rate water removal, paving rods is a direct improvement over a dirt road.  Please make apples to apples comparisons.

$40K to paint some streets white isn't the same thing especially considering that this type of thing has been tried before and seemed to have little effect once the white became dirty.  The cost to keep the street white is going to be another cost. The glare a white street causes is also an issue if you've ever driven son a snow covered street.

So... you remain opposed to local government trying to see if new shit works?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

So... you remain opposed to local government trying to see if new shit works?

I am opposed to local gov't experimenting with tax payer money. That is not the duty/role of local gov't. 

[deadshank 24653]

8 hours ago, RollLeft said:

 

Didn't see your post before i posted mine.  The idea is right the execution was wrong.  Solar panels as they exist and as most know them suck.  First as you stated the penetrations are an issue and probably just as important they are ugly.  That said the technology exists, using existing shingle and tpo designs with solar tech in them, to power the whole house and sell back to the grid.  This solves both the penetration and the aesthetic issue. The issue i hear is they can't get past current fire code standards.  That and energy lobbies are fighting it behind the scenes.  Not even GAF is big enough to have their hands on this tech yet.  Its a bigger political play playing out. Selling back to the grid should change in the coming years.  Also since every state isnt uniform its proving an expensive bet with many local political battles to fight.   It will be interesting.

CertainTeed has come out with 2 roofing / solar products that have hit the market with a thud as has US Tile.   

[deadshank 24653]

18 minutes ago, bolverk said:

So... you remain opposed to local government trying to see if new shit works?

It’s not going to work if it is dirty.  This is known.

Why keep filling a bucket when you know it has a hole in it? 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

13 minutes ago, deadshank said:

It’s not going to work if it is dirty.  This is known.

Why keep filling a bucket when you know it has a hole in it? 

Because, you insensitive bastard it shows they care.  And that's what matters.

[bolverk 29695]

31 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I am opposed to local gov't experimenting with tax payer money. That is not the duty/role of local gov't. 

I'm glad you're just an architect and not a city planner or city manager.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

I'm glad you're just an architect and not a city planner or city manager.

I'm glad you're not a city planner either I'd vote to remove your ass for spending money on unproven technology.  

 

Its a failire from the word go. To affect a heat sink painting a handful of roads White isn't going to do it. The buildings and the glazing and the HVAC systems and the roofs and the unpaved areas all need to be taken into account.

 

Ill take my architects  knowledge over whatever pie in the sky boondoggle you're envisioning this is going to do.  

[Upgrayedd 5816]

Albedo talk.  Not going away.

[Baboontyme 2815]

On 11/15/2018 at 5:41 PM, deadshank said:

Meh.  The City of Houston fell prey to the influence of one particular roofing contractor when he approached them with the idea of mandating solar reflective roof membranes on all commerical low-slope roofing applications. 

 

ROFLBOX?

 

Does this CoolSeal do anything for potholes? Asking for a friend...

[bolverk 29695]

52 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I'm glad you're not a city planner either I'd vote to remove your ass for spending money on unproven technology.  

 

Its a failire from the word go. To affect a heat sink painting a handful of roads White isn't going to do it. The buildings and the glazing and the HVAC systems and the roofs and the unpaved areas all need to be taken into account.

 

Ill take my architects  knowledge over whatever pie in the sky boondoggle you're envisioning this is going to do.  

The funny thing is: I am a city planner. Sometimes ya gotta experiment, bro!

Fortunately, city planner positions aren't typically elected offices.

[Sbbruin 21865]

On 11/15/2018 at 11:24 AM, miguelito said:

Some folks are doing this with roofs, also.  Same idea.

It is required now.  For flat roofs.

Edited November 17, 2018 by Sbbruin

[deadshank 24653]

Just now, Sbbruin said:

It is required now.

What is required?  Painting your roof?

Edited November 17, 2018 by deadshank

[Sbbruin 21865]

Just now, deadshank said:

What is required?  Painting your roof?

White roofing material.  Not for tiles roofs but any flat or rolled roofing needs to be white

[bolverk 29695]

1 minute ago, Sbbruin said:

It is required now.  For flat roofs.

Some places are also experimenting with sod on flat roofs too for insulation. Again, another interesting idea.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, bolverk said:

The funny thing is: I am a city planner. Sometimes ya gotta experiment, bro!

Fortunately, city planner positions aren't typically elected offices.

Not at $40k per mile with other peoples money.  Again that is not the perogative  of a local govt .  Using PRO TIP: I wouldn't go suggesting that concept to my constituency.

[bolverk 29695]

4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Not at $40k per mile with other peoples money.  Again that is not the perogative  of a local govt .  Using PRO TIP: I wouldn't go suggesting that concept to my constituency.

I should amend my previous post. My degree is in city planning, but my profession is more along the lines of being a downtown redevelopment consultant.

Edit: As such, I can make common sense AND non-sensical recommendations all day long. You wanna paint that street white at $40k per mile? Go for it. Let's see if it works.

Edited November 17, 2018 by bolverk

[RollLeft 5045]

1 hour ago, deadshank said:

CertainTeed has come out with 2 roofing / solar products that have hit the market with a thud as has US Tile.   

The only thing i know out is tile which might as well be a panel.  What i'm talking about is composite shingles that look and are installed/replaced pretty much the same as current shingles.  

[clapclapclap 9000]

2 hours ago, bolverk said:

I should amend my previous post. My degree is in city planning, but my profession is more along the lines of being a downtown redevelopment consultant.

Finish the damn gondolas!

[Netzer 157]

Why not use concrete instead of asphalt?

As far as roofs are concerned, why bother to paint them? Integrated photovoltaic roofs have been around for years in Europe.

[Pato del Muerto 52535]

If this is a pilot program, are there stated goals and measurements?

or is it just point a flir at the asphalt, then point it at the coated surface, and celebrate the 12 degree difference?

what does that difference get you for your $40,000 per mile?  What is an acceptable roi to expand the program?  What’s the actual product lifetime vs expected?  

Law of conservation of energy still applies, so if there’s less energy in the roads, where is it going and what effects will this cause?

[bolverk 29695]

 

3 hours ago, Netzer said:

Why not use concrete instead of asphalt?

As far as roofs are concerned, why bother to paint them? Integrated photovoltaic roofs have been around for years in Europe.

 

On 11/15/2018 at 4:01 PM, bolverk said:

I'm curious what the temperature difference is between using asphalt (black) and concrete (gray) for streets.

34 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If this is a pilot program, are there stated goals and measurements?

or is it just point a flir at the asphalt, then point it at the coated surface, and celebrate the 12 degree difference?

what does that difference get you for your $40,000 per mile?  What is an acceptable roi to expand the program?  What’s the actual product lifetime vs expected?  

Law of conservation of energy still applies, so if there’s less energy in the roads, where is it going and what effects will this cause?

3

Netzer, I brought up that same question earlier, but no one cared to respond.

Duck, I don't think anyone in this thread can answer whether or not this is a new policy or just a pilot program based off that cute infotainment video. Although I, for one, would be very interested in understanding what the results of the experiment are for human comfort.

[Post Oak 20254]

Interesting idea.  I'm generally for municipalities experimenting with these types of ideas.  At the very least it's a relatively simple starting point.  Test it and see how it can be approved

[Netzer 157]

On 11/15/2018 at 11:01 PM, bolverk said:

I'm curious what the temperature difference is between using asphalt (black) and concrete (gray) for streets.

Found the following at German weather site donnerwetter.de:

At 35 to 40 °C (95 to 104 °F) air temperature and a slight breeze, concrete road surfaces reach temperatures between 60 and 65 °C (140 to 149 °F), while asphalt heats between 75 and 80 °C (167 to 176 °F). That would make for a difference of 15 to 20 °C (27 to 36 °F) between concrete and asphalt surfaces.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Netzer

[MadBurgerMaker 404]

I look forward to seeing people driving while wearing ski goggles. 

[Trey3216 15350]

22 hours ago, bolverk said:

The funny thing is: I am a city planner. Sometimes ya gotta experiment, bro!

Fortunately, city planner positions aren't typically elected offices.

This is not one of those experiments that will end well.  See my example of lake balls that LA already “expiremented” with while wasting billions of taxpayer $$.   And at $40k/mi, I can’t think of a dumber way to go.   

[Underdog 28754]

On 11/15/2018 at 4:59 PM, HornOnTheBayou said:

Will the streets be renamed Katellyyn (with two y's) St and Brecklynne Drive?

The Streets have no name. 

[Trey3216 15350]

30 minutes ago, Underdog said:

The Streets have no name. 

With the streets like cocaine.  Still painting and,  scrubbing them down